Suaviloquent

Keep your friends rich and your enemies rich and then tell apart which is which!

135 posts in this topic

TRY NOT TO LOOK AT THE LICENCE PLATES PLS. YOU'RE GONNA DO IT ANYWAYS.

 

EXHIBIT A:

 

 

 

Diamond-Silver-2014-Mercedes-Benz-S550.j

 

 

 

EXHIBIT B:

 

 

Mercedes-E-Class-LWB-10.jpg

 

 

 

EXHIBIT C:

 

 

 

wallpaper-memes-entertainment.jpg

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This is a very real problem for MB- all their cars look too much alike. Especially egregious considering the price spread of $66K….

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I think that it is a tactical move. MB prolly think that anyone with the means to buy the S-Class would buy the S-Class anyways.

 

Anyone else that wants the prestige of MB, but now including the look of the S for all sedans...I think the E-Class LWB and S look alright on their own. Parked next to each other...it might be a shocker to the S owner seeing an E being such a close match.

 

Then again...this is the new paradigm of design. Find one look, claim it, stake the whole brand on it, and then figure out how to make it wider, lower, shorter taller...

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It worked when numerous models were built off of one basic shell (Biscayne, Bel Air, Impala, Caprice), but Chevy didn't find it necessary to put the same nose on the Chevelle/Malibu, Chevy II, and Corvette at the same time, did they? This is the same nose across different (ALL) model lines. I don't get the lack of effort. Your $96K sedan should NOT be a twin to your $29K sedan. 

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No, the S-Class is not a twin of the CLA. That's one that just isn't true. The S-Class grille is bigger, has slats instead of the mesh on the CLA, and it always has hood ornament for its sedan versions, and it has longer dash to axle. The CLA is a sedan version of the A-Class hatch that has been selling in Europe since 1997.  Bringing it over stateside was something they could have done long ago, making a sedan version is also something they could have done long ago.

 

And besides... what's done is done. Do the vehicles look like what I'd expect anyways? That I'd say yeah...it's a Mercedes and it looks like one. The CT6 is a clone of the CTS as well, just a grille that is wider, not as tall, and then some basic headlight differences and voila. Now the price spread isn't so vast. Look at all of BMW. Every single Audi. What Ford has done to all their sedans. 

 

However, GM having Buick and Chevy to deal with CLA and B Class... Mercedes needed the CLA for compliance for CAFE, and I'm pretty sure they made the compromise of form over function without hesitating so they could market it as a styling equivalent of the CLS. 

 

I don't think it's a lack of effort either. Mercedes WANTS this. They want the whole lineup to be one sausage of different lengths. And not every single brand has to be all kinds of different for each model line. The other German brands are practically at this doorstep.

 

HELL, every single Porsche is the same thing from the front. 

 

But I wouldn't care, but I do like the idea of a LWB E-Class - but it's come invariably from China so NOPE. That's a car that I could perhaps really like. Would I aspire for that? Maybe. But do I want that? Not as the SWB.

 

So CT6 and Continental it is.

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I wish the E-class went back to a split headlight set up to look different from the S and C classes, at least they put the vertical LED bars in.  Most luxury brands are doing the similar look styling now, because they want brand continuity.   Sauv is correct, that Mercedes wants a uniform look in every car.

 

On a similar note, they did refresh the SL roadster to make it looks better, but the 2013-2016 version looked awful.  But now the SL looks too similar to the AMG GT.  They should make the SL have round headlights and look more like the 1950s car.  The G-waggen is retro Mercedes and people love it.  The SL could use a little retro Mercedes too.

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G-wagon is a sales flop in the U.S., so all the "love" must be from other countries.

 

MB wants 'brand continuity'? I know what they could do- as the sole retro purveyor of the 1970s hallmark, the stand-up hood ornament..., just put a larger, light-up stand-up on the hood of everything. That'd be distinctive.

  • Upvote 1

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No, the S-Class is not a twin of the CLA. That's one that just isn't true. The S-Class grille is bigger, has slats instead of the mesh on the CLA, and it always has hood ornament for its sedan versions, and it has longer dash to axle. The CLA is a sedan version of the A-Class hatch that has been selling in Europe since 1997. Bringing it over stateside was something they could have done long ago, making a sedan version is also something they could have done long ago.

And besides... what's done is done. Do the vehicles look like what I'd expect anyways? That I'd say yeah...it's a Mercedes and it looks like one. The CT6 is a clone of the CTS as well, just a grille that is wider, not as tall, and then some basic headlight differences and voila. Now the price spread isn't so vast. Look at all of BMW. Every single Audi. What Ford has done to all their sedans.

However, GM having Buick and Chevy to deal with CLA and B Class... Mercedes needed the CLA for compliance for CAFE, and I'm pretty sure they made the compromise of form over function without hesitating so they could market it as a styling equivalent of the CLS.

I don't think it's a lack of effort either. Mercedes WANTS this. They want the whole lineup to be one sausage of different lengths. And not every single brand has to be all kinds of different for each model line. The other German brands are practically at this doorstep.

HELL, every single Porsche is the same thing from the front.

But I wouldn't care, but I do like the idea of a LWB E-Class - but it's come invariably from China so NOPE. That's a car that I could perhaps really like. Would I aspire for that? Maybe. But do I want that? Not as the SWB.

So CT6 and Continental it is.

The S Class grill looks bigger because the S Class is a bigger car. They share the same basic design now across at four different models. Balthazaar is right. Edited by surreal1272

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MB S-Coupe uses the same grid-like grille texture, same LACK of fog lamps, same gaping holes in the lower corners, same hood contouring/lines as the CLA. They fiddled for 2 minutes with the headlights, but coming at you head-on, you can't tell if the person spent $29K or $129K. It's a mere 3" wider than the bottom-feeder CLA, so size (again; coming straight at you) isn't at all readily apparent.

 

"Get the look of our $100K+ car for only $29,995!!"

 

232112-hyundai-scoupe-logo.gif

Edited by balthazar

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Guess MB is taking a page from GM of the 80's with make it all the same from bottom Value auto to top rape you of your life savings auto and still have them all look the same so you cannot tell how much one spent just like Balthazar has stated.

 

So then next up for MB is to drop like a rock and then bankrupt and reorganize and rebuild like GM did is what history is teaching us.

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But you're someone who would never consider Mercedes or any import. I mentioned above what I think of the E-Class LWB. The only Mercedes I would consider, because it reminds me of the CT6, but more luxo interior.

 

I'm not calling out bias. What I'm saying is...right now Cadillac is still the underdog, and Mercedes having one cheap car to comply with FE standard does NOT UNDO EVERYTHING else they have on the high end. And if all of the top end of Mercedes is so fickle and generic... WTF is Cadillac waiting for, 20 years to wait to get up there? I've said myself, bring the Elmiraj sexyness to life, like how Lexus brought the LF-LC to life as a very near concept execution of the production car.

 

And Mercedes is a profit hungry machine. What makes you think Cadillac is on a path any different? I'm fine with Cadillac making sausage length cars, I wish the ATS though had a smaller badge and a thinner grille like the CT6. And that does mean I want them to just blatantly copy a model line formula that is supposedly "Germanic".

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Maybe I'm projecting some kind of practicality or mindset over efficiency over these luxury cars.

 

But my argument is this...if it is a good design, a fairly distinct design, then there is nothing wrong to propagate it to to the rest of the lineup.

 

I don't think Mercedes S-class buyers really care that the CLA exists, and if anything...it means they either have a backbone or ego that can allow such a car to exist and be faithful to the brand. Who knows? We know that when you create a new segment or join a new segment, you have the chance to split sales.

 

What do I mean? Well, when the ATS came out, and the CTS then followed...net sales increased barely over just the standalone CTS GEN 2 sales. ATPs were split, but customers now had a choice of 2 different sizes compared to one tweener.

 

The CLA probably had that effect on the C-Class. People only wanted a C-Class had the car move much more upmarket, into the most luxo car in its class. The CLA became just the new entry level (it's still a pretty $h!ty car for the price, but it's the got a badge worth more than the sum of the parts of the car).

 

If GM built a $100k+ flagship (the CT6 V8 model should do that) and the CT2 or 3, the sub-ats model is a shrink wrap of the same wrapper, I'll be expecting from you Balth the same opinion levied against them.

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I'm already on record, and will restate here : I an vehemently against any 'sub-ATS' @ Cadillac. ATS is small enough, another sedan below it, 6 inches shorter, is a colossal waste of resources. I really don't care how it turns out.

 

That clear enough?

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Problem is Suave...

Balthy is ALREADY vocal AGAINST sub-ATS class Cadillacs.

He is CONSTANTLY telling us he HATES this sub-ATS idea and he also tells us that Cadillac needs NOT to chase volume either!

 

Balthy is very consistent in his thought processes.

There are biases of course....but who hasnt got any?

 

I know I do!!!

 

Disclaimer: I try to be as honest and consistent in my thought processes also. My opinions sometimes have bias in them...that is what opinions are for...

 

(That is why I HATE -1 votes without explanations! But I believe I have beat that thing to death! :fryingpan:   :dizzy:   :deadhorse:

 

 

EDIT:

BALTHY beat me to it. I think he could defend himself quite good....he dont need me....he pities the fool that thinks otherwise. :mr-t:

Edited by oldshurst442

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G-wagon is a sales flop in the U.S., so all the "love" must be from other countries.

 

MB wants 'brand continuity'? I know what they could do- as the sole retro purveyor of the 1970s hallmark, the stand-up hood ornament..., just put a larger, light-up stand-up on the hood of everything. That'd be distinctive.

I think the G-wagon is the #1 selling vehicle in the USA with a base price over $100,000.

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But you're someone who would never consider Mercedes or any import. I mentioned above what I think of the E-Class LWB. The only Mercedes I would consider, because it reminds me of the CT6, but more luxo interior.

 

I'm not calling out bias. What I'm saying is...right now Cadillac is still the underdog, and Mercedes having one cheap car to comply with FE standard does NOT UNDO EVERYTHING else they have on the high end. And if all of the top end of Mercedes is so fickle and generic... WTF is Cadillac waiting for, 20 years to wait to get up there? I've said myself, bring the Elmiraj sexyness to life, like how Lexus brought the LF-LC to life as a very near concept execution of the production car.

 

And Mercedes is a profit hungry machine. What makes you think Cadillac is on a path any different? I'm fine with Cadillac making sausage length cars, I wish the ATS though had a smaller badge and a thinner grille like the CT6. And that does mean I want them to just blatantly copy a model line formula that is supposedly "Germanic".

Good post.  

 

I'd go beyond Cadillac and throw in Lexus, Infiniti, Lincoln, and Acura.  None of them have really jumped into that $100k territory to challenge Mercedes, or the Italian supercars, or Porsche or the Bentley and Rolls Royces of the world.    And every car company wants to maximize profits, that is why they exist.

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It only moves between 200-300/month. It's too ancient to get any sales momentum.

 

Mercedes sells FAR more S-series cars over $100K than it does g-wagoons over $100K.

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It only moves between 200-300/month. It's too ancient to get any sales momentum.

 

Mercedes sells FAR more S-series cars over $100K than it does g-wagoons over $100K.

Well the S-class is the #1 selling car over $95,000, and by a wide margin.  But a G-wagen starts at $115,000 and 2/3 of them sold are AMG models that are $140,000.  When you compare a G-wagen to BMW i8, Audi R8, or Bentley sales, the G-wagen sales look pretty good.  And G-wagen sales are up this year, and they were up in 2015 over 2014.  The sales keep rising, and this for a vehicle that Mercedes was going to end production on in 2006.  But the fans wanted them to keep making, and they listened to their fan base.

 

G-wagen sales were up 17% in 2015, and are up 23.8% this year.

Edited by smk4565

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G-wagen sales were up 17% in 2015, and are up 23.8% this year.

They sold like 340 last month. Whoopie$h!.

 

MB should leverage the G-wagon by expanding the line. Daimler should offer a

2.0TT i4 with 250 HP

3.0TT V6 with 325 HP

a diesel V6T

all with hybrid plug-in capability (including the V8s). Anything to get it away from the 13 MPG it barely gets.

Also; lower the 6000 lb curb wight by 2000 lbs with extensive aluminum and triple the trim variants. They could also offer a 'chopped top' version like the range rover. All these wonderful ideas could really raise the sales & revenue TEMENDOUSLY- it could out-revenue the s-class, properly handled. 

 

Unfortunately, Daimler squanders the opportunity and lets it rot on the vine for decades with no changes, then wonders why they only sell a few hundred/mnth in the U.S.

 

;)

Edited by balthazar

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It only moves between 200-300/month. It's too ancient to get any sales momentum.

 

Mercedes sells FAR more S-series cars over $100K than it does g-wagoons over $100K.

Well the S-class is the #1 selling car over $95,000, and by a wide margin.  But a G-wagen starts at $115,000 and 2/3 of them sold are AMG models that are $140,000.  When you compare a G-wagen to BMW i8, Audi R8, or Bentley sales, the G-wagen sales look pretty good.  And G-wagen sales are up this year, and they were up in 2015 over 2014.  The sales keep rising, and this for a vehicle that Mercedes was going to end production on in 2006.  But the fans wanted them to keep making, and they listened to their fan base.

 

G-wagen sales were up 17% in 2015, and are up 23.8% this year.

It's easy to go up when you only sell 260 at the same time last year LOL.

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No one would buy a V6 G-wagen here, there is a diesel version in Europe. The G550 only has a 40% take rate, 60% of G wagens are AMG. The people buying it want the bigger engine.

Mercedes sells a GLE with 4 and 6 cylinder and hybrid versions for people that want a mid size SUV that isn't crazy thirsty.

The fans don't want them to change the G-wagen, it sells because they haven't changed the look since 1979. The Jeep Wrangler has looked the same since 1943, and it is FCA's most iconic vehicle.

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But Jeep sold 225,000 Wranglers last year. 

 

Fact is, g-wagoon doesn't sell, the numbers are terrible. Daimler makes like $75,000 profit on each one, but they are wasting the potential to vastly increase sales by limiting the trims, by having laughably-outdated construction/ dated hardware, and not offering hybrid, plug-in and non-13 MPG variants. There are potential 'fans' out there that don't buy it because it's such a one-trick dinosaur. Daimler could sell 1000/mnth in the U.S. if they made it more appealing to more people.

 

And, you know, blow up the assembly plant and build something new. This is going on 5 years old already :

Mercedes-Benz-G-Class-Ener-G-Force-Conce

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So when Cadillac has low sales numbers, it is a good thing because they are keeping their cars exclusive.  When Mercedes has a vehicle with low sales it is bad.  For someone who always criticizes Mercedes for chasing volume, odd that you want to criticize them for also not chasing volume.  

 

They did just put a new for 2016 4.0 liter V8 in the G-wagen.  Rumor is next year they are going to do an overhaul on the G-class, use aluminum to cut 400 lbs, and add a 360 hp inline six engine and 9-speed automatic.  There will be updates, but they don't want to mess with a winning formula.  No reason to fix a vehicle that gets more and more popular over time.

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