Jump to content
William Maley

Industry News: Renault Sees An End To Diesels In Their Vehicles

Recommended Posts

Since the Volkswagen diesel emission scandal came to light, more scrutiny has been put on automakers and emissions standards. Recent real-world tests of European market diesel vehicles have revealed a number were 10 times over the legal limit for emissions. With stricter regulations coming into effect next year, automakers are reconsidering their investment in diesel.

Case in point is Renault. Reuters has learned from sources at the company that it believes diesel engines will disappear from their lineup due to stricter regulations. This comes from an internal meeting before a summer break where Renault went over the costs of meeting these stricter regulations. According to two people who were at the meeting, Renault's Chief Competitiveness Officer Thierry Bollore said the investment in diesel had dimmed significantly due to upcoming regulations.

"He said we were now wondering whether diesel would survive, and that he wouldn't have voiced such doubts even at the start of this year," said one of the people.

"Tougher standards and testing methods will increase technology costs to the point where diesel is forced out of the market."

Next year will see Europe adopting emission standards similar to the ones in the U.S. known as Euro 6b. This will become more stringent as time goes on. Two years after Euro 6b comes into affect, European regulators will begin doing real-world testing of fuel economy and emissions. The combination of these two things means automakers will need to spend more money to make their vehicles meet these standards.

"Everybody is backtracking on diesel because after 2017-18 it becomes more and more expensive," said Pavan Potluri, a powertrain analyst with consulting firm IHS Automotive.

Already, diesel engines have been disappearing from city cars. Sources say Renault predicts that diesel will disappear from all B-Segment and some C-Segment models by 2020.

Source: Reuters


View full article

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I expected this, I also expect we will see a plethora of EV and Plug-in Hybrids over the next 24 months.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is government intrusion at its absolute worst.  And it goes against what customers want.  Totally out of sync with the market.

  • Downvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, ocnblu said:

This is government intrusion at its absolute worst.  And it goes against what customers want.  Totally out of sync with the market.

The government has very little to do with it other than prosecuting the offenders. Many of the people who bought TDIs did so thinking they were clean burners.  A lot of those buyers are justifiably mad at being misled by VW.  Diesel in Europe has been starting to taper off over the past few years anyway... now with the VW scandal, I expect a rapid drop in diesel sales simply because customers don't trust the technology anymore (justifiably or not). 

GM got the blame for killing diesels in the US for 30 years and it tarnished GM's image.

VW will get the blame for killing them globally because they've tarnished the image of diesel technology as a whole. 

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The government has everything to do with it if they choke the life out of the diesel engine by regulating it to death.

  • Downvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

The government has everything to do with it if they choke the life out of the diesel engine by regulating it to death.

Other diesel manufacturers followed the rules.  VW didn't.  VW got busted and tarnished the image of diesel as being a very dirty technology when in fact it can be clean. 

Why did they do this? They did this to further their quest to be the largest auto maker on the planet and save themselves $350 per car.  If TDI buyers are that loyal, they certainly could have stomached an extra $350 for the emissions control equipment. I know I wouldn't even have blinked at that amount and I doubt you would have either.

This was greed and hubris on VW's part....... plain and simple. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

customers totally wanted to lose half their car's value and be lied to about its real economy/ecological numbers.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The car is still more valuable TO THE OWNERS than some made-up BS.  And the TDi's economy numbers routinely exceed the advertised.

  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

Market value isn't made up, it's a very real thing. 

It doesn't exist until the car is sold.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

so first you're saying it's the 'gubmints' fault, and now you're implying tdi owners should just suck it up and be happy with their vehicle that doesn't meet advertised specs and has lost substantial resale value.

why do you hate consumers and fair business practices?

  • Upvote 1
  • Downvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I read somewhere that VW cut a lot of costs by moving production of models to Slovakia and other Eastern European countries and also by moving production of certain Golfs and Audis to Mexico.

They couldn't stomach another $350 out of what I read they cut $7000 of costs of production associated with the then new 2012 Passat.

 

They were being greedy, and while there's plenty of time to discuss the fairness of laws, VW was considered the gold standard and untouchable when it came to diesels. And now they're in a mess.

 

And diesels can be very clean, even with the emissions control equipment enabled to full use, diesels still get great FE. And right now there's a negative spread between diesel and regular, and that's not a coincidence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it's not just diesel they are over regulating.  Globally the taxes and regs have created things like a 1.0 litre three turbo in a Ford Mondeo in Europe. etc.

The crossroads in powertrain development Drew alludes to in my mind is the push and pull, the ever increasing demands of regulation (for regulation sake now) are far exceeding the value of investment.  It's ruining the auto industry.  They all stepped up to the plate to make their 1.5's and tiny turbos and hybrids and 10 speed autos, now is not the time to double the requirements again.  It's time to make the technology that is in play now, reliable and cost effective.

We'd all be better off if they stop pussy footing and just come out and say 'all global powertrains shall be capable of either gas-electric hybrid, gas-electric hybrid plug in, or plug in hybrid propulsion.  With credits given for innovation in other fuels.  Let's skip over this struggle spending millions and billions making 2.0's gain 2 more mpg each product cycle when we can just flat out mandate fuel diversity and jump from a 30 mpg car to a 40 mpg car.  Let's get every manufacturer deeply immersed.  Create global tax incentives to entice manufacturers to join forces and engineer fewer but better powertrains.  

I really do think the crossroads is that we need to recognize we've got most of what we can out of pure gas powertrains.  We would see more of an investment with development dollars in standardizing future electric infrastructure.  Let's develop scalable battery technologies.  Let's think about what our charging network is 40 years down the pipe. etc.

 

I love diesels too, and this clearly a diesel witch hunt going on but I can see why any manufacturer would scale back on these.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

unlike some people, I'm not against electrification or hybridization.   I don't like to waste energy and if I can recapture energy when I'm braking to use it for acceleration, than I'm all for it.  If I can power my commute with wind turbines or solar, I'm all for it.  I like silence in my cars and I like lots of torque... both specialties of electric power, but in the end, I'm truly agnostic as to what I use for fuel as long as it has those qualities.  My limitation at the moment is the need for AWD.... there are so few hybrid AWD vehicles right now, and even fewer that are affordable, that it basically takes electrification off the table for me. 

But if GM put the CT6 PHEV powertrain in a new Chevy Avalanche 4x4, I'd be first in line at Chevy with my deposit. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

CHEVY HAS COME OUT AND SAID THE BOLT HAS A 238 MILE RANGE!  That's pretty darn good, I just wish I could count on that number consistently, but there are so many variables... seasonal, HVAC related, unknown traffic demands...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, ocnblu said:

CHEVY HAS COME OUT AND SAID THE BOLT HAS A 238 MILE RANGE!  That's pretty darn good, I just wish I could count on that number consistently, but there are so many variables... seasonal, HVAC related, unknown traffic demands...

That's an EPA estimate... so yes it could be variable, but that also means it could be higher.   In the Volt, real world driving returns results that regularly exceed EPA.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 9/10/2016 at 5:38 PM, Drew Dowdell said:

Other diesel manufacturers followed the rules.  VW didn't.  VW got busted and tarnished the image of diesel as being a very dirty technology when in fact it can be clean. 

Why did they do this? They did this to further their quest to be the largest auto maker on the planet and save themselves $350 per car.  If TDI buyers are that loyal, they certainly could have stomached an extra $350 for the emissions control equipment. I know I wouldn't even have blinked at that amount and I doubt you would have either.

This was greed and hubris on VW's part....... plain and simple. 

They had numerous other issues in the 2009-2014 cars (2012-2014 Passat sued a different system that did in fact use urea). DPF filters and High Pressure Fuel pumps are just the start.  had they walked through the front door in 2009, they would have a huge loyal following.  But the real problems started when High Pressure Fuel pumps started imploding....which was an $8000 repair when you went to a VW dealer because you basically sent shrapnel through the fuel system.

17 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

unlike some people, I'm not against electrification or hybridization.   I don't like to waste energy and if I can recapture energy when I'm braking to use it for acceleration, than I'm all for it.  If I can power my commute with wind turbines or solar, I'm all for it.  I like silence in my cars and I like lots of torque... both specialties of electric power, but in the end, I'm truly agnostic as to what I use for fuel as long as it has those qualities.  My limitation at the moment is the need for AWD.... there are so few hybrid AWD vehicles right now, and even fewer that are affordable, that it basically takes electrification off the table for me. 

But if GM put the CT6 PHEV powertrain in a new Chevy Avalanche 4x4, I'd be first in line at Chevy with my deposit. 

AWD seems like it would be a natural match for an electrical powertrain....look at how well it works out in the Tesla, which IIRC is all wheel drive, right?

On 9/11/2016 at 11:26 AM, Suaviloquent said:

I read somewhere that VW cut a lot of costs by moving production of models to Slovakia and other Eastern European countries and also by moving production of certain Golfs and Audis to Mexico.

They couldn't stomach another $350 out of what I read they cut $7000 of costs of production associated with the then new 2012 Passat.

 

They were being greedy, and while there's plenty of time to discuss the fairness of laws, VW was considered the gold standard and untouchable when it came to diesels. And now they're in a mess.

 

And diesels can be very clean, even with the emissions control equipment enabled to full use, diesels still get great FE. And right now there's a negative spread between diesel and regular, and that's not a coincidence.

They got really greedy...although cars built in Mexico are quality wise supposed to be just as good as the cars from Germany.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, A Horse With No Name said:

AWD seems like it would be a natural match for an electrical powertrain....look at how well it works out in the Tesla, which IIRC is all wheel drive, right?

AWD is optional.  If it has a D after the model number, then it's AWD.  The D actually stands for dual motors, one in the front and one in the back. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
11 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

AWD is optional.  If it has a D after the model number, then it's AWD.  The D actually stands for dual motors, one in the front and one in the back. 

With electric, one could forgo the mechanical transfer case and be much more mechanically simple....looking forward to the three....I could see myself getting into a Tesla 3 quite easily.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

With electric, one could forgo the mechanical transfer case and be much more mechanically simple....looking forward to the three....I could see myself getting into a Tesla 3 quite easily.

There is no transfer case in the AWD Tesla's. Its just a smaller motor unit up front.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

There is no transfer case in the AWD Tesla's. Its just a smaller motor unit up front.

Exactly....at some point the mechanical simplicity of electric has to be a major selling point.  Especially now that they are talking about gas cars having particulate filters and even more complex emissions systems.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Your content will need to be approved by a moderator

Guest
You are commenting as a guest. If you have an account, please sign in.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Similar Content

    • By William Maley
      A new report from Automobile Magazine says that smart is living on borrow time and could disappear by 2026 at the earliest.
      According to various sources, Renault will be pulling out of partnership when the current Twingo/ForFour ends production. The two models share the same architecture in an effort to save costs. Without a partner, Mercedes-Benz isn't as keen to keep smart around.
      A key question is whether or not Mercedes-Benz will produce a new model with a three-pointed star to compete against the likes of the Mini Cooper and Audi A1. A decision by the board needs to happen by 2021 when it must sign off the next-generation A-class, Why? That's because the new model will use the same platform as the next-generation A-Class. Automobile says the platform will replace the current MFA2 and allow for a "fully scalable, all-new convergence layout" - thus allowing an even smaller vehicle.
      But there is a possible twist. Chinese automaker Geely owns a 9.7 percent stake in Daimler, and could become a replacement partner if a business case could be made for an electrified brand.
      Source: Automobile Magazine

      View full article
    • By William Maley
      A new report from Automobile Magazine says that smart is living on borrow time and could disappear by 2026 at the earliest.
      According to various sources, Renault will be pulling out of partnership when the current Twingo/ForFour ends production. The two models share the same architecture in an effort to save costs. Without a partner, Mercedes-Benz isn't as keen to keep smart around.
      A key question is whether or not Mercedes-Benz will produce a new model with a three-pointed star to compete against the likes of the Mini Cooper and Audi A1. A decision by the board needs to happen by 2021 when it must sign off the next-generation A-class, Why? That's because the new model will use the same platform as the next-generation A-Class. Automobile says the platform will replace the current MFA2 and allow for a "fully scalable, all-new convergence layout" - thus allowing an even smaller vehicle.
      But there is a possible twist. Chinese automaker Geely owns a 9.7 percent stake in Daimler, and could become a replacement partner if a business case could be made for an electrified brand.
      Source: Automobile Magazine
    • By William Maley
      Care By Volvo was one of the first new car subscription services to launch. It offered a buyer an XC40 with a yearly allowance of 15,000 miles; maintenance, insurance, and a concierge service for either $600 or $700 per month for 24 months. But the service had some hiccups with various issues dealing with paperwork and not hearing back from dealers. 
      "The process was very, very stretched. We have learned that the process needs to be smoother, and also the process related to insurance and all the rules in all the states in this beautiful country ... we have learned a lot," said Volvo's North American CEO, Anders Gustafsson to Roadshow.
      A key example is having a larger stockpile of vehicles allocated for subscribers. The entire Care by Volvo allotment of XC40s sold out in four months, causing Volvo to push deliveries of new XC40s through the service till next year. Gustafsson admits Care By Volvo is "far away from where we would like to be." But he believes the S60, the next vehicle to be offered through the service will be much smoother.
      Roadshow also asked Gustafsson what's next for Care By Volvo. He revealed that it could be used cars.
      A used-car subscription service "is probably 50 percent of the questions that we receive from our customers and from our retailers," said Gustafsson.
      As for when something like this could appear, Gustafsson said it could happen within a year.
      Source: Roadshow

      View full article
    • By William Maley
      Care By Volvo was one of the first new car subscription services to launch. It offered a buyer an XC40 with a yearly allowance of 15,000 miles; maintenance, insurance, and a concierge service for either $600 or $700 per month for 24 months. But the service had some hiccups with various issues dealing with paperwork and not hearing back from dealers. 
      "The process was very, very stretched. We have learned that the process needs to be smoother, and also the process related to insurance and all the rules in all the states in this beautiful country ... we have learned a lot," said Volvo's North American CEO, Anders Gustafsson to Roadshow.
      A key example is having a larger stockpile of vehicles allocated for subscribers. The entire Care by Volvo allotment of XC40s sold out in four months, causing Volvo to push deliveries of new XC40s through the service till next year. Gustafsson admits Care By Volvo is "far away from where we would like to be." But he believes the S60, the next vehicle to be offered through the service will be much smoother.
      Roadshow also asked Gustafsson what's next for Care By Volvo. He revealed that it could be used cars.
      A used-car subscription service "is probably 50 percent of the questions that we receive from our customers and from our retailers," said Gustafsson.
      As for when something like this could appear, Gustafsson said it could happen within a year.
      Source: Roadshow
    • By William Maley
      Aside from the turbo-four engine, the 3.0L Duramax diesel inline-six for the upcoming 2019 Chevrolet Silverado and GMC Sierra 1500 has us very intrigued. General Motors has been quiet on power figures and fuel economy for this engine since announcing this engine earlier in the year. But thanks to a crafty person who got some photographs off of GM Canada’s dealer site, we now have some figures.
      The photos were posted by TFL Truck and reveal the diesel engine produces 282 horsepower and 450 pound-feet of torque - 32 horsepower and 10 pound-feet more than the F-150's 3.0L PowerStroke diesel. GM also claims a highway fuel economy figure of 28 mpg - about two mpg less than the F-150. That 28 mpg figure gives us pause as Canada reports fuel economy figures very different - 'x' liters per 100 kilometers - not miles per gallon.
      Max towing is rated at 7,800 pounds.
      We'll see if those numbers pan out when the diesel becomes available sometime later this or early next year.
      Source: TFL Truck

      View full article
  • My Clubs

  • Recently Browsing

    No registered users viewing this page.

  • Reader Rides

About us

CheersandGears.com - Founded 2001

We ♥ Cars

Get in touch

Follow us

Recent tweets

facebook

×