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Frisky Dingo

MT- Corvette Grand Sport vs 911 S

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I put all my thoughts on the matter in my comment over there @ MT.

But essentially, they are that if you can afford a near 100K Vette with gumball tires and a splitter that will scrape everywhere basically rendering it a toy, you can afford a 140K 911. Judged in their entirety, the 911 is easily the better car. Much wider breadth of usability, easier for the average person to drive fast, better build quality, greater refinement, superior straight line performance, and to top it all off, 911's almost always hold their value incredibly well.

Given the choice between the 2, give me the 911 all day. It is the true do-it-all-borderline-supercar sports car. For what the car offers and how easily accessible it is, it has no equal. That said, I love the Grand Sport. For a 'reasonably' priced track car, it'd easily be my pick of anything on the market. Owning both would be about the best combo one could assemble.

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92k to 140k is a 50% jump. I definitely wouldn't go as far to say if you can afford a 90k car you can afford a 140k car or if you can that doesn't mean you want to spend 50k on a nicer interior and maintenance out the ass in comparison. Yes, the 911 is the superior car but not necessarily by a 50% price increase.

If GM could only sort out their damn interiors on the Vette it would truly compete all around with the best in the world but until then it is still just a bargain priced car.

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27 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said:

I put all my thoughts on the matter in my comment over there @ MT.

But essentially, they are that if you can afford a near 100K Vette with gumball tires and a splitter that will scrape everywhere basically rendering it a toy, you can afford a 140K 911. Judged in their entirety, the 911 is easily the better car. Much wider breadth of usability, easier for the average person to drive fast, better build quality, greater refinement, superior straight line performance, and to top it all off, 911's almost always hold their value incredibly well.

Given the choice between the 2, give me the 911 all day. It is the true do-it-all-borderline-supercar sports car. For what the car offers and how easily accessible it is, it has no equal. That said, I love the Grand Sport. For a 'reasonably' priced track car, it'd easily be my pick of anything on the market. Owning both would be about the best combo one could assemble.

I can relate to this.  For me, it is more the social group you buy into when you get a car, and the Porsche Club guys are almost without an exception fantastic people.

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1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

92k to 140k is a 50% jump. I definitely wouldn't go as far to say if you can afford a 90k car you can afford a 140k car or if you can that doesn't mean you want to spend 50k on a nicer interior and maintenance out the ass in comparison. Yes, the 911 is the superior car but not necessarily by a 50% price increase.

If GM could only sort out their damn interiors on the Vette it would truly compete all around with the best in the world but until then it is still just a bargain priced car.

I think you are severely misjudging the individuals who buy these cars. The first 2 Grand Sports my GM store got went to individuals with near 7 figure net worths. One actually had a 991.1 Carrera S and didn't trade it. We sold a fairly lightly equipped Z06 Vert that was in the same wheelhouse- 97K- to a guy who owned a 458 Italia and GT-R.

 

Blue collar-ish guys who are financing these cars for 84 months to get a $1,000 a month are not the normal buyers.

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And I think you're judging every Grand Sport purchase based on 2 buyers(at least you're making it sound that way). There are probably GT350 buyers with 7 figure net worths as well and that's even cheaper.

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26 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said:

I think you are severely misjudging the individuals who buy these cars. The first 2 Grand Sports my GM store got went to individuals with near 7 figure net worths. One actually had a 991.1 Carrera S and didn't trade it. We sold a fairly lightly equipped Z06 Vert that was in the same wheelhouse- 97K- to a guy who owned a 458 Italia and GT-R.

 

Blue collar-ish guys who are financing these cars for 84 months to get a $1,000 a month are not the normal buyers.

One of the guys I used to autocross with went to Cincinnati and paid cash for a boss 302 Mustang when they first came out...because he was bored and wanted another car.  Tom already owned a CTS-V, a new Z06 Corvette, and a couple of other toys.

He also kept a lawyer on retainer because he liked to drive fast. Right after he got the Boss 302 he got nailed by the Ohio Highway State patrol for doing 155 on I-70.

Yeah, not normal blue collar guys....

15 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

And I think you're judging every Grand Sport purchase based on 2 buyers(at least you're making it sound that way). There are probably GT350 buyers with 7 figure net worths as well and that's even cheaper.

Car guys come in all flavors.  One guy I know lives in a rather modest 1000 square foot house, plays with his cars and saves money every paycheck. His wife and three kids don't mind living in a small house, and he has money for his toys.

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15 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

And I think you're judging every Grand Sport purchase based on 2 buyers(at least you're making it sound that way). There are probably GT350 buyers with 7 figure net worths as well and that's even cheaper.

 

You're missing my point. 

I could tell you that even the average Stingray buyer has a ~70K SUV and 40-50K lux sedan in their driveway. Hey wait, that even sounds like someone we all know who hasn't posted in a while.

Do you really think that most people buying 75-90K cars are stretching their budget and pinching pennies to do so, or have the disposable income necessary to have pretty much any toy within reason they wanted?

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1 minute ago, Frisky Dingo said:

 

You're missing my point. 

I could tell you that even the average Stingray buyer has a ~70K SUV and 40-50K lux sedan in their driveway. Hey wait, that even sounds like someone we all know who hasn't posted in a while.

Do you really think that most people buying 75-90K cars are stretching their budget and pinching pennies to do so, or have the disposable income necessary to have pretty much any toy within reason they wanted?

I see a good bit of both, actually.

But the point is made. When I visit the Porsche dealership, I tell them that I am not their clientele, and they are happy that I am being honest with them.

Sadly, I turned down a really clean air cooled 911 that was within budget back a few years ago when they were still cheap.  Maybe I should have listened to the guy...

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2 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said:

Do you really think that most people buying 75-90K cars are stretching their budget and pinching pennies to do so, or have the disposable income necessary to have pretty much any toy within reason they wanted?

Absolutely not, but I could very easily see somebody buying a 75k car around retirement and paying half of it in cash and still being nowhere near a 7 figure net worth. I absolutely don't see anybody pinching pennies in this price point but affording 75-90k and 140k just aren't the same.  Buying a 30k car and a 45k car isn't the same..

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Personally, I think I will have to agree on this with Frisky, most people buying the Vette, especially GS probably can afford the 911 as well.  

But I think it is like Mustang and Camaro, most people who are buying one not likely to buy the other.  911 maybe a better car overall but I doubt too many people will cross shop.

If I had that kind of money I doubt I would get 911 because I never really liked them.  People usually spend that kind of money on something they are passionate about.

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3 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

Absolutely not, but I could very easily see somebody buying a 75k car around retirement and paying half of it in cash and still being nowhere near a 7 figure net worth. I absolutely don't see anybody pinching pennies in this price point but affording 75-90k and 140k just aren't the same.  Buying a 30k car and a 45k car isn't the same..

The problem with your logic is that you simply basing if off a % of price increase. 

A $120 pair of Bavid Bitton Buffalo jeans is almost twice the cost of a pair of BKE's. Does that mean I can't afford the Buffalos? Of course not, because we're still talking a small sum.

Near 100K is a very large sum. Especially for someone who is buying essentially a purpose-built vehicle. A 70-75K Stingray or base GS, even, doesn't have to be a toy. But dude trust me, the vast majority of people buying Z07-spec GS's and Z's can afford a 150K car if they so chose.

Buying a 30K car and a 45K car aren't the same, but it's not the same philosophy. Normal people buying 30-45K cars are buying practical vehicles- sedans, CUV's, not 2 door sports cars.

 

2 minutes ago, ykX said:

Personally, I think I will have to agree on this with Frisky, most people buying the Vette, especially GS probably can afford the 911 as well.  

But I think it is like Mustang and Camaro, most people who are buying one not likely to buy the other.  911 maybe a better car overall but I doubt too many people will cross shop.

If I had that kind of money I doubt I would get 911 because I never really liked them.  People usually spend that kind of money on something they are passionate about.

 

Spend some time on P-car and 'M' forums, and you'll be surprised. Many of those guys are not as narrow-minded and biased as you'd think.

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1 minute ago, ccap41 said:

Alright, I won't argue it.. You have very good points.

 

I get what you're saying. I do. And in the case of your run-of-the-mill 2LT 8-sp Auto car w/out Z51 Pkg, I don't disagree. But those are very different buyers from those shelling out for the track stuff typically.

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3 hours ago, Frisky Dingo said:

I put all my thoughts on the matter in my comment over there @ MT.

But essentially, they are that if you can afford a near 100K Vette with gumball tires and a splitter that will scrape everywhere basically rendering it a toy, you can afford a 140K 911. Judged in their entirety, the 911 is easily the better car. Much wider breadth of usability, easier for the average person to drive fast, better build quality, greater refinement, superior straight line performance, and to top it all off, 911's almost always hold their value incredibly well.

Given the choice between the 2, give me the 911 all day. It is the true do-it-all-borderline-supercar sports car. For what the car offers and how easily accessible it is, it has no equal. That said, I love the Grand Sport. For a 'reasonably' priced track car, it'd easily be my pick of anything on the market. Owning both would be about the best combo one could assemble.

While the 911 is undoubtedly the better overall car, it should be for $40K more. Imagine what an additional $40K would do for the Vette. Of course, given the mid engine rumors, you might not have to imagine for much longer.

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15 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

While the 911 is undoubtedly the better overall car, it should be for $40K more. Imagine what an additional $40K would do for the Vette. Of course, given the mid engine rumors, you might not have to imagine for much longer.

Who knows. But competition only improves the breed.

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10 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said:

Who knows. But competition only improves the breed.

Exactly. Local dealer has a 1967 Corvette for sale for a very reasonable price. The new stuff is so good, people are looking past the cool old stuff it seems.

http://www.arenamotor.com/1967-Chevrolet-CORVETTE-BIG-BLOCK-ROADSTER-Columbus-Ohio-43201/5910150

Non matching number, but seems to be a screaming deal...

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20 minutes ago, Frisky Dingo said:

Cars of that era are going to start plummeting in value. As the people who grew up with these cars die off, the market will dry up. 

To an extent, yes. Glad I sold my 1966 Mustang fastback when I did. Sadder to me is all of the seemingly forgotten cars of the seventies, eighties, nineties, and oughts....

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