ccap41

Want to Hear Somebody Take a Dump on the CT6?

50 posts in this topic

ccap41    1,236

I was thoroughly surprised when I came to read this and read the results and I think it is the best looking of the group and it sounds like it(and all new Cadillacs) have been nailing the driving portion of the car. But a major bummer on the interior and yet again CUE. How long will it take them to sort that out???  It looks like Cadillac was going for "value for size". rather than just being the best and that's disappointing.

CT6 vs E300 vs S90

Here's the intro but you can read the full comparison at the above link.

" Large luxury cars used to be powered by throaty, grumbling eight-cylinder engines. Cadillac had its old Northstar V-8s, Mercedes-Benz a 4.3-liter, and Volvo a 4.4-liter V-8 in the mid-priced offerings. But downsizing is all the rage these days, and all three of those manufacturers’ new mid-priced offerings are powered by diminutive 2.0-liter four-cylinder engines. Our testing suggests that you might not miss those extra cylinders.

The segment stalwarts are the ones leading the downsizing charge. The 2017 Mercedes-Benz E300 Sport is the German automaker’s bread-and-butter mid-priced midsize sedan. Starting at around $50K and selling well-equipped for nearly 70 large, the E-Class targets the heart of the luxury sedan market with semi-autonomous driving technology, baby S-Class luxury, and a four-cylinder engine cranking out a respectable 241 hp.

Cadillac has historically been synonymous with big engines. It sold high-tech V-16 engines through the middle of the Great Depression and has been known for its high-power V-8s since the ’60s. Yet its stunning don’t-call-it-a-flagship 2017 Cadillac CT6 2.0T Luxury offers an engine with a quarter of the cylinders of its V-16 cars, a tried-and-true 2.0-liter turbocharged I-4 making a stout 265 hp.

You can always count on the Swedes to be just a little bit different. Although the 2017 Volvo S90 T6 AWD Inscription makes just as much of a visual impression as the Caddy and Merc, it differs ever so slightly under the hood. Yes, it too has a 2.0-liter four-banger, but the S90’s is twin-charged, featuring both a supercharger and a turbocharger. The end result is a potent little engine making 316 hp. That’s V-8 territory.

So are these small-engined thoroughbreds engaging to drive? Can they deliver flagship luxury?"

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dfelt    1,874

I read this and while I love the CT6, some things still clearly need to be addressed. Yet with that said, I think they also clearly missed issues with the others too.

Over all the biggest issue is the CUE and I do wonder when Cadillac will realize that they need to make a drastic change here on that system. I personally have not had the issue with CUE that many here and in other web sites covering the auto industry have had. With that said, I will say that the touch pad sucks, but then they all do and especially for me as it seems they only work about 10% of the time especially on laptops. The day they stop incorporating the little joystick between the GHB keys I will be forced to always have a mouse.

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smk4565    351

I miss the days when every luxury car had a V8, but I guess on the flip side a new E43 with a 3 liter engine is faster than the 5.5 liter V8 in my car and probably gets a least 5 mpg more, so progress is good too. 

I am surprised the Volvo beat the E300, but I do agree with MT about the all black interiors on Mercedes and preferring the light and airy Volvo interior.   Mercedes needs the E43 on sale ASAP, that is the fix because the performance you get will make it worth the money.  At $70k for the 4-cylinder model that car should have every luxury goodie, that is $18k in options.  $70k for 4 cylinders is a big ask, the GLE43 is priced at $67k, if the E43 is the same, I think they have what they need.

Not surprised by what they said about the CT6.

Edited by smk4565

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cp-the-nerd    441

This article was garbage from the onset. The premise is ridiculous: large luxury cars with 2.0L engines...but we're going to blend sizes to get the CT6 in here, at its expense.

Let's break down the inconsistency:

The CT6 2.0T is restricted to lower trims and RWD, with higher comparable pricing because it's Cadillac's full size car. For the price as-tested of the Luxury 2.0T, they could have bought a Premium Luxury trim 3.6L AWD with comfort pkg and driver assist pkg. Way, way more car for the money.

Meanwhile, the Volvo gets the benefit of checking off the T6 trim with AWD as well as their more powerful twin-charged 2.0L, rather than the 2.0T base engine with 250 horsepower. You know, because reasons.

Then there's Christian Seabaugh's writing, which is frankly awful in this comparison test:

Somehow, the E300 fails to impress with its driver-assist technology and does the worst of the three cars in ride and powertrain--in a large luxury car comparison, mind you--and still beats out the Cadillac because of a long list of largely subjective complaints.

There's such a lack of tangible, consistent criteria in this test. It was practically tailored to make the Volvo come out on top.

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cp-the-nerd    441
On 11/23/2016 at 3:37 PM, dfelt said:

Over all the biggest issue is the CUE and I do wonder when Cadillac will realize that they need to make a drastic change here on that system.

For better or worse, the CUE set up in the CT6 and XT5 is drastically revised compared to the ATS/CTS. It's not for a lack of self-awareness, they're at least trying.

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smk4565    351
39 minutes ago, cp-the-nerd said:

This article was garbage from the onset. The premise is ridiculous: large luxury cars with 2.0L engines...but we're going to blend sizes to get the CT6 in here, at its expense.

Let's break down the inconsistency:

The CT6 2.0T is restricted to lower trims and RWD, with higher comparable pricing because it's Cadillac's full size car. For the price as-tested of the Luxury 2.0T, they could have bought a Premium Luxury trim 3.6L AWD with comfort pkg and driver assist pkg. Way, way more car for the money.

Meanwhile, the Volvo gets the benefit of checking off the T6 trim with AWD as well as their more powerful twin-charged 2.0L, rather than the 2.0T base engine with 250 horsepower. You know, because reasons.

Then there's Christian Seabaugh's writing, which is frankly awful in this comparison test:

Somehow, the E300 fails to impress with its driver-assist technology and does the worst of the three cars in ride and powertrain--in a large luxury car comparison, mind you--and still beats out the Cadillac because of a long list of largely subjective complaints.

There's such a lack of tangible, consistent criteria in this test. It was practically tailored to make the Volvo come out on top.

I would mostly agree, it is a test that favors the Volvo based on criteria.  It is almost like saying we are out to find the best 4 cylinder all wheel drive sedan for about $30k and having a loaded up subaru vs whatever else all wheel drive you can get like a bare bones Audi A3 and saying the Subaru is best.

Most that want a large or even mid-size luxury car will want at least 6 cylinders, the E300 is really for the old ladies and old men that are in no hurry to get anywhere, and 6.5 seconds 0-60 is adequate, but a V6 E-class will mop the floor with a Volvo.

I don't think the CT6 was unfairly treated due to price though, it was the middle priced car of the test.  The CT6 is a flawed, perhaps compromised car though.  MT said they like the 2.0T more than the V6, I think the 3.6 should be dropped from all Cadillac sedans, put a turbo V6 in its place.

Edited by smk4565
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cp-the-nerd    441
29 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

I would mostly agree, it is a test that favors the Volvo based on criteria.  It is almost like saying we are out to find the best 4 cylinder all wheel drive sedan for about $30k and having a loaded up subaru vs whatever else all wheel drive you can get like a bare bones Audi A3 and saying the Subaru is best.

Most that want a large or even mid-size luxury car will want at least 6 cylinders, the E300 is really for the old ladies and old men that are in no hurry to get anywhere, and 6.5 seconds 0-60 is adequate, but a V6 E-class will mop the floor with a Volvo.

I don't think the CT6 was unfairly treated due to price though, it was the middle priced car of the test.  The CT6 is a flawed, perhaps compromised car though.  MT said they like the 2.0T more than the V6, I think the 3.6 should be dropped from all Cadillac sedans, put a turbo V6 in its place.

I understand that the CT6 under-delivers in some areas. I can accept that, and I can accept a loss. It was this badly written comparison and sh!tty criteria that burned my balls. Your Subaru vs Audi analogy was solid. I would only add that Christian Seabaugh's take on the CT6 was blatantly negative in a subjective way that wasn't seen in the other cars.

My complaint with the pricing is that it's nearly impossible to option a CT6 RWD 2.0T like that. Like I said, you can buy a higher trim level, V6, AWD, plus option packages for that money.

As for the 3.6L, the latest LGX has been really well received across the board. Motor Trend hasn't even reviewed the CT6, ATS, or CTS with that powertrain, so when the article stated their preference for the 2.0T, they were referring to the Car of the Year test where their CT6 3.0T had strange, wonky power delivery (which hasn't been reported anywhere else).

Edited by cp-the-nerd
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surreal1272    771

After reading that comparo, I think we can put this "MT is nothing more than a GM propaganda arm" argument to rest. They were ridiculously harsh on the CT6 in a test that was set up for Volvo all the way.

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dfelt    1,874
10 hours ago, cp-the-nerd said:

For better or worse, the CUE set up in the CT6 and XT5 is drastically revised compared to the ATS/CTS. It's not for a lack of self-awareness, they're at least trying.

Yes it is much better in both the XT5 and CT6, but I still think this is one area that Cadillac could truly dump the system and start with a clean sheet design incorporating Apple and Android play and have a superior system to everyone else.

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smk4565    351

Well this seems to be a bit embarrassing:

Volvo S90 YTD sales: 959

E-class YTD sales: 41,403

And E-class sales are down this year since the new model just went on sale late summer, and the V6 isn't even on sale yet, but will be soon, as well as this, which is faster than an M5 or CTS-V.

2018-mercedes-amg-e63-photos-and-info-ne

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Suaviloquent    713

The complaints levied against the CT6 are all really the interior. 

For it's price it's a bargain, but against it's class its appears as a different kind of car for a different kind of mindset. I see the CT6 as Cadillac trying to recreate itself in a former BMW's image, yet it goes away from traditional Cadillac strong points too far. For a big Cadillac, it isn't a Cadillac throughout. The interior fails to deliver what the, svelte yet imposing exterior promises. 

And Cadillac being a bargain is in itself just the wrong approach. The Escalade can get pricey, but costs less than it's competition. But it has such an immense cost advantage because it shares yet masks so much that is borrowed from it's siblings.

They spent too much effort on engineering a great car to drive, when most drivers of that size a car are not enthusiasts, but are mere badge braggers. Then the interior, while nice for the price, you know fully loaded, it just gets lost in a sea of Designo Mercedes, or Inscription trim S90.

And I think the price comparison is the right thing, but why the CT6? Isn't there a CTS somewhere they could have borrowed for this test. 

The real secret is that this test was a convenient coincidence - all 3 cars were in the COTY test. And tossing in the G90 would have made it an even better bargain than the S90.

 

 

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dfelt    1,874
15 hours ago, smk4565 said:

2018-mercedes-amg-e63-photos-and-info-ne

This is just another butt ugly jelly bean auto that I cannot tell is this an A, C, D, E or S? They all look the same and nothing exciting to stir the passion of driving other than the badge.

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5 hours ago, dfelt said:

This is just another butt ugly jelly bean auto that I cannot sell is this an A, C, D, E or S? They all look the same and nothing exciting to stir the passion of driving other than the badge.

I still like it better than the Infinity, Lincoln, Volvo, Buick, And VW CC. 

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dfelt    1,874
5 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I still like it better than the Infinity, Lincoln, Volvo, Buick, And VW CC. 

Glad you like it, for me there is nothing special about owning these over priced badge jobs.

You want passion from MB, here are some auto's that stir the passion of wanting to drive them.

Mercedes-Benz_SLS_AMG_GT3_2011_08.jpg

Mercedes-Benz-AMG-Vision-Gran-Turismo-02.jpg

mercedes-cls-63-amg-german-special-customs-action-tuning-1.jpg

SLS-AMG-GT3-45th-1.jpg

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ccap41    1,236
On ‎11‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 10:28 PM, Suaviloquent said:

And Cadillac being a bargain is in itself just the wrong approach

I couldn't agree more. At the level of cars that approach 100k "bargain" shouldn't be a thing. It should just be great, period.

 

On ‎11‎/‎26‎/‎2016 at 10:28 PM, Suaviloquent said:

They spent too much effort on engineering a great car to drive, when most drivers of that size a car are not enthusiasts, but are mere badge braggers. Then the interior, while nice for the price, you know fully loaded, it just gets lost in a sea of Designo Mercedes, or Inscription trim S90.

Also, completely agree. It sounds like the driver's car of the luxury barge world but... nobody will ever give a crap about that when looking to purchase. It would have made more sense to go all-in on the interior and leave a less nailed down ride because frankly, it means waaaaay more in cars this size.

15 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

C class is in many ways a decent luxury car...

It's probably the most "luxurious" in its class. It isn't the driver's car but it's the most luxurious.

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ccap41    1,236
On ‎11‎/‎25‎/‎2016 at 11:43 PM, cp-the-nerd said:

For better or worse, the CUE set up in the CT6 and XT5 is drastically revised compared to the ATS/CTS. It's not for a lack of self-awareness, they're at least trying.

It might be drastically revised but the issues they had with it are unacceptable at this point.. When it first came out..and some revisions..okay. That's understandable. It's new.  But "as it froze multiple times before eventually crapping out, taking USB connectivity and charging with it." That just cannot happen, to me, in a 50k car let alone the 100k this car can approach. I mean if that happened on a test drive, game over. I wouldn't buy something where the infotainment system is all over the place with consistency.

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Suaviloquent    713

Chevy MYLink and Buick/GMC Intellilink are just re-skinned versions of the same system, plus they retain hard buttons much more than the Cadillac.

I think there was a lost opportunity to come back fully to buttons and knobs that Lincoln did recently. While the volume slider does match the overall design of the interior....functionally the better versions of the same system are to be found in less expensive products.

But I guess complicated controls that look hi-tech and screem luxo in pics is the price of  admission of being a luxury car.

 

 

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dfelt    1,874

CT6, the car everyone seems to want to use for it's whipping boy. Wonder if it is that they are all so jealous of the auto that they have to nit pick.

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Another MT article that, of course.. no one needed to read to see the outcome. The Chinese showed Seabaugh and his crew a good time and this is what we got from it.

 

 Let's be clear.. with $70K U could have gotten a CT6 3.0L TT with AWD that would have put the weaksauce Chinaman car on the trailer with the Kraut.

 

 In fact.. why was the CT6 in this run at all? Why not simply bring in a CTS 2.0L AWD loaded to the hilt? To MT it made sense to take a 204 inch car and put it up against 2 vehicles that were smaller than even the smaller than CT6s lil sis the CTS. 

 

Can U say BULLCRAP???

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ccap41    1,236
12 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Let's be clear.. with $70K U could have gotten a CT6 3.0L TT with AWD that would have put the weaksauce Chinaman car on the trailer with the Kraut.

The driveline was not the issues that they mentioned though. They didn't mind the 2.0T and they thought the chassis was superb. It was the interior that they didn't like and it would be the same on the TT3.0 AWD.

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5 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

The driveline was not the issues that they mentioned though. They didn't mind the 2.0T and they thought the chassis was superb. It was the interior that they didn't like and it would be the same on the TT3.0 AWD.

Actually the model they used was the LUXURY.. which is for all intents really the base model on the inside.. For the price they should have gone for the Premium Luxury. 

Bottom line is that Cadillac is penalized because it made its big car more affordable than some of its competitor's mid-size. Personally I think they should say "eff 'em" and charge people for the the CT6 at minimum Premium Luxo. To hell with the two lower trims. I would buy any but the Platinum anyway

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ccap41    1,236
40 minutes ago, dfelt said:

CT6, the car everyone seems to want to use for it's whipping boy. Wonder if it is that they are all so jealous of the auto that they have to nit pick.

Or... Maybe it just isn't as good as we really want it to be.. I would put more weight into our bias than I would professional's bias. they see, sit, and drive basically EVERYTHING on the market. I think they have a better opinion on how things do work vs how they should along with what the competition does.

4 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

Actually the model they used was the LUXURY.. which is for all intents really the base model on the inside.. For the price they should have gone for the Premium Luxury. 

Bottom line is that Cadillac is penalized because it made its big car more affordable than some of its competitor's mid-size. Personally I think they should say "eff 'em" and charge people for the the CT6 at minimum Premium Luxo. To hell with the two lower trims. I would buy any but the Platinum anyway

Yes. You don't magically make a car larger and more affordable out of nowhere.. There HAS to be corners cut or sacrifices made to get to that point of a larger car being cheaper. They sacrificed interior things for a superb chassis and engine. Cadillac penalized themselves for doing that.

Does Premium Luxury change any of the issues they had with the car? CUE will still suck, the materials will still be all over the place(according to them), but they already complimented the quality of leather being used.

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3 hours ago, dfelt said:

CT6, the car everyone seems to want to use for it's whipping boy. Wonder if it is that they are all so jealous of the auto that they have to nit pick.

...or maybe GM needs to just keep bringing its A game to the table?  They are doing it with Chevy, they need to step it up with Buick and Cadillac IMHO.

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      Press Release is on Page 2
      The New Volvo XC40 Makes a Bold Statement in the Compact SUV Market
      (ROCKLEIGH, N.J.) Volvo Cars introduces the XC40 SUV, setting a new benchmark for design, technology and safety in the compact SUV market. Award winning technology from the 90 and 60 series cars are standard in the XC40, including safety innovations rarely offered among competitors. The Volvo XC40 will be among the safest, well-equipped compact SUVs available. At launch, the T5 all-wheel drive Momentum trim will start at $35,200. In summer 2018, a T4 front wheel drive will be introduced starting at $33,200.
       
      The new XC40 represents Volvo’s third SUV and is focused on a new expression of Scandinavian design. The XC40 is the smallest SUV offered by Volvo, preceded by Volvo’s largest SUV, the XC90, which is the most awarded luxury SUV of the century. The mid-sized XC60 is arriving at US retailers now and has been positively received. With the introduction of the XC40, Volvo completes its SUV range and offers three of the newest vehicles in their respective segments.
       
      “The XC40 is our first entry in the small SUV segment, broadening the appeal of the Volvo brand and moving it in a new direction,” said Håkan Samuelsson, president and chief executive. “It represents a fresh, creative and distinctive new member of the Volvo line-up.”
       
      The XC40’s bold exterior is available with a range of body colors and color-contrast roof, providing up to 17 combinations. In the front, Volvo’s signature Thor’s hammer daytime running lights compliment a new interpretation of Volvo’s grill. The XC40 has a strong, structured profile for a youthful expression. Large wheels, wheel arches and an 8.3” ride height provide a true SUV feeling. 
      With a clever use of space and interior materials, the XC40 introduces a bold rendition of Scandinavian design and functionality. An available panoramic sunroof allows natural light into the cabin and at night, integrated LED mood lighting can be color adjusted to match the mood or temperature the driver desires. This lighting, combined with unique metal and textile materials, creates a feeling of creativity, energy and youthfulness.
       
      Volvo conducted extensive global research into how compact SUVs are used and discovered proper storage is essential. With ample interior space for both passengers and storage, smart daily-use features such as large door pockets, integrated bag hooks and a customizable cargo area help organize the driver’s life while in the car. Wireless QI mobile phone charging and Bluetooth connectivity with the standard 9” Sensus Connect touchscreen helps reduce the clutter of charging cables and connectors. A dedicated cell phone storage space frees up cup holders and other areas commonly used by customers to store their phone. The development of a unique air-ventilated woofer located behind the dashboard allows for more storage in the door panels without sacrificing stereo sound in the cabin.
       
      Connectivity is core to the XC40, featuring 4 years of Volvo On Call as standard and the ability to share the car with trusted friends and family via a mobile phone app. Applications such as Spotify, Pandora and Yelp are available via the center touch screen, as well as Volvo’s Apple CarPlay and Android Auto integration.
       
      With standard City Safety, which includes pedestrian, cyclist, vehicle and large animal detection with emergency autobrake, the XC40 is one of the best-equipped small premium SUVs on the market. Safety and driver assistance features on the XC40 include Pilot Assist, Run-off Road protection and mitigation, Cross Traffic alert with brake support and the 360° Camera that helps drivers maneuver their car into tight parking spaces.
       
      Volvo Cars is inventing a new model of car access with the launch of the new Volvo XC40 called “Care by Volvo.” Care by Volvo is an all-inclusive, negotiation-free option that will be offered alongside traditional purchase and lease choices. This will make having a car as transparent, easy and hassle free as having a phone: a national, flat-rate monthly fee, combined with the opportunity to upgrade to a new car as early as 12 months. Care by Volvo in the United States includes almost everything needed to own and operate a car such as maintenance, insurance, wear and tear items and protection services.
       
      The new XC40 is the first model on Volvo Cars’ new Compact Modular Architecture (CMA), which will underpin all other upcoming cars in the 40 Series including fully electrified vehicles.
       
      From start of production, the XC40 will be available with a T5 four-cylinder Drive-E powertrain with all-wheel drive. Further powertrain options, including a hybridized as well as a pure electric version, will be added later.
       
      Production of the new XC40 starts in Volvo Cars’ plant in Ghent, Belgium in November, while order books will open today. Details regarding Care by Volvo will be released at the Los Angeles Auto Show in November.
    • By William Maley
      Next week, Volvo will debut their new XC40 crossover. They have already released a teaser video showing only small snippets of the models. However, one of Volvo's regional offices didn't get the memo to only post the teaser video.
      Volvo Hungary accidentally released a video showing the XC40 in full. The video has since been taken down, but various outlets have gotten screen caps of it. The production version almost mirrors the 40.1 concept with the same boxy shape. Inside, the XC40 appears to be slightly more casual in terms of design when compared to the XC60 and 90. At least the XC40 retains the large touchscreen.
      The XC40 is an important vehicle for Volvo. Aside from entering one of the hottest segments in the marketplace, the XC40 will be the first Volvo model using the Compact Modular Architecture (CMA). This was jointly developed by the Volvo and parent company Geely. The upcoming S40 and V40 will also use this architecture.
      Source: Autoblog, CarScoops

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    • By William Maley
      Next week, Volvo will debut their new XC40 crossover. They have already released a teaser video showing only small snippets of the models. However, one of Volvo's regional offices didn't get the memo to only post the teaser video.
      Volvo Hungary accidentally released a video showing the XC40 in full. The video has since been taken down, but various outlets have gotten screen caps of it. The production version almost mirrors the 40.1 concept with the same boxy shape. Inside, the XC40 appears to be slightly more casual in terms of design when compared to the XC60 and 90. At least the XC40 retains the large touchscreen.
      The XC40 is an important vehicle for Volvo. Aside from entering one of the hottest segments in the marketplace, the XC40 will be the first Volvo model using the Compact Modular Architecture (CMA). This was jointly developed by the Volvo and parent company Geely. The upcoming S40 and V40 will also use this architecture.
      Source: Autoblog, CarScoops
    • By William Maley
      Volvo Announces July Sales

      ROCKLEIGH, N.J. (August 1, 2017) - Volvo Car USA, LLC, (VCUSA) reported U.S. sales of 6,967 vehicles for the month of July. The top seller for the month was the XC90 with 2,521 vehicles sold. The sell-down of the current XC60 continues, while the first all-new XC60 customer cars arrived this month and were delivered.
       
      Volvo is implementing a sweeping $11 billion transformation plan that has involved the development of its own modular vehicle architecture, a new engine range, global manufacturing capability, a completely renewed product range and world leading developments in safety, autonomous driving and connectivity.  
      Models July 2017 July 2016 % Year To Date 2017 Year To Date 2016 % S60 904 1,864 -51.5 % 6,853 7,649 -10.4 % S60 CC 32 42 -23.8 % 139 362 -61.6 % S80 0 79 - 5 403 -98.8 % S90 855 259 230.1 % 3,809 267 1,326.6 % V60 121 384 -68.5 % 1,690 2,119 -20.2 % V60 CC 127 339 -62.5 % 1,604 1,464 9.6 % V90 47 0 100.0 % 61 0 100.0 % V90 CC 176 0 100.0 % 1,067 0 100.0 % XC60 1,329 2,097 -36.6 % 10,240 10,928 -6.3 % XC60 II 855 0 100.0 % 979 0 100.0 % XC70 0 632 - 73 3,141 -97.7 % All-New XC90 2,521 2,888 -12.7 % 14,552 18,905 -23.0 % Total 6,967 8,584 -18.8 % 41,072 45,238 -9.2 % * I, II, III etc shows which generation the car model belongs to.
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