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1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

My only issue with the article is that he pretty much stuck with the Ford charging app to find chargers.  Sure, Ford claims to have the largest charging network (by location, not by number of chargers), but limiting yourself to just that network is foolish.... you wouldn't do that with gas stations, so why would you with charging stations.

That would be like me writing an article about driving across country but only filling up at Costcos and then complaining when there wasn't one on my route but there are 15 BPs, 7 Exxons, and a couple other local chains. 

There also aren't 16,000 Costcos in the US, there are 558. 

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Chevrolet is paying to install the 240 V charging outlet in your garage if you lease or buy a 2022 BOLT EV or EUV.

image.png

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16 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

There also aren't 16,000 Costcos in the US, there are 558. 

I know, but you see the point I'm making.

The trouble with Ford's claim is exactly what you're pointing out, that the infrastructure isn't there or it's broken or locked behind a gate or inside a <Dealer Brand> service center.  However, if you limit yourself to just Ford's network when charging, you're going to be frustrated.  Jumping on ChargePoint, it shows way more than just the 2 fast chargers he found in NYC on the Ford app.  He could have used other networks, he just chose not to.

It would be like saying you'll only fill up with one brand of gas and then complaining when your one brand doesn't have a station nearby but Exxon does. What would any sane person do? They'd just go to the Exxon. 

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35 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I know, but you see the point I'm making.

The trouble with Ford's claim is exactly what you're pointing out, that the infrastructure isn't there or it's broken or locked behind a gate or inside a <Dealer Brand> service center.  However, if you limit yourself to just Ford's network when charging, you're going to be frustrated.  Jumping on ChargePoint, it shows way more than just the 2 fast chargers he found in NYC on the Ford app.  He could have used other networks, he just chose not to.

It would be like saying you'll only fill up with one brand of gas and then complaining when your one brand doesn't have a station nearby but Exxon does. What would any sane person do? They'd just go to the Exxon. 

Yes, I understand what you're saying.  How many chargers are there in total, outside of the "Ford" network? 

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These are clearly not for the US market, but I have to say that this drag race of EV version 1.0 and the new EV version 2.0 is too funny.

Watch The Tiniest Drag Race Ever: Microlino 2.0 Vs Microlino 1.0 (insideevs.com)

Tiny Drag race

 

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GM Will Build a ‘Large’ Electric SUV for Acura in 2024

Last week, Honda declared it'll sell only emissions-free vehicles in the United States—powered by a combo of batteries and hydrogen—by the year 2040. Buried in the announcement's press release, however, Honda quietly mentioned plans for "two large-sized EV models using GM's Ultium batteries," one for Honda and one for Acura, both for the 2024 model year. And they won't be built just from GM-sourced batteries, but by actual GM-employee hands, as confirmed by an Acura spokesperson to The Drive.

"We are jointly developing two EV SUVs models using GM's Ultium batteries for the North American market as 2024 model year, one for the Honda brand and one for the Acura brand," said an Acura spokesperson in an email to The Drive. "As announced in April 2020, these will be produced by GM."

GM Will Build a ‘Large’ Electric SUV for Acura in 2024 | The Drive

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14 hours ago, ykX said:

GM Will Build a ‘Large’ Electric SUV for Acura in 2024

Last week, Honda declared it'll sell only emissions-free vehicles in the United States—powered by a combo of batteries and hydrogen—by the year 2040. Buried in the announcement's press release, however, Honda quietly mentioned plans for "two large-sized EV models using GM's Ultium batteries," one for Honda and one for Acura, both for the 2024 model year. And they won't be built just from GM-sourced batteries, but by actual GM-employee hands, as confirmed by an Acura spokesperson to The Drive.

"We are jointly developing two EV SUVs models using GM's Ultium batteries for the North American market as 2024 model year, one for the Honda brand and one for the Acura brand," said an Acura spokesperson in an email to The Drive. "As announced in April 2020, these will be produced by GM."

GM Will Build a ‘Large’ Electric SUV for Acura in 2024 | The Drive

If you told me that Honda would let GM build one of their cars (or trucks) 30 years ago, I would ask, WHY?  NOW Honda wants a GM-built BEV?!   Whoa, how times have changed.

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1 hour ago, riviera74 said:

If you told me that Honda would let GM build one of their cars (or trucks) 30 years ago, I would ask, WHY?  NOW Honda wants a GM-built BEV?!   Whoa, how times have changed.

Here are the official press releases by gm and Honda.

General Motors and Honda to Jointly Develop Next-Generation Honda Electric Vehicles Powered by GM's Ultium Batteries | General Motors Company

General Motors and Honda to Jointly Develop Next-Generation Honda Electric Vehicles Powered by GM’s Ultium Batteries (hondanews.com)

This is what happens when you get caught behind the tech change by society. The same reason Toyota is behind and bad mouthing is they were leading, Hydrogen is not working out for consumers and so they have to pivot and run to try and catch up.

Hydrogen for Commercial Class 8 trucks / Semi's for range extenders makes sense here.

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5 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

pedestrians. 

Survival of the fittest, if a pedestrian is too stupid to pay attention to the roads, caught up in their facetime with who ever and ignors crossing a road, why should the silent auto be penalized?

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1 hour ago, ykX said:

The Union VP Terry Dittos is an Idiot. Union wages here in the US are too high to support low entry level EV products just like ICE products and as such, you need to have a lower wage production to cover all areas. 

Just look at the Asian auto makers who build their entry level auto's in cheap labor markets and import them here for sale to cover that market.

At least GM is doing it with a North America country rather than some place over seas.

This is a POSTIVE for people to get low cost EVs.

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So...... ship all BE assembly out of the country then??
 

- - - - - 

>>"1 in 5 electric vehicle owners in California switched back to gas because charging their cars is a hassle, new research shows"<<

https://www.yahoo.com/news/1-5-electric-vehicle-owners-164149467.html

Oopsie-poopsie!

Edited by balthazar
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22 minutes ago, balthazar said:

So...... ship all BE assembly out of the country then??
 

- - - - - 

>>"1 in 5 electric vehicle owners in California switched back to gas because charging their cars is a hassle, new research shows"<<

https://www.yahoo.com/news/1-5-electric-vehicle-owners-164149467.html

Oopsie-poopsie!

Lets also look at the the cherry picking of this story, they talk about how home charging is 36 miles of range over night only and barely even mention level 2 charging. They also talk about having to look for a fast charger and point to Tesla having a 480 V fast charging network but never state that Tesla is also 110 or 220 V electrical from home due to stupid limits on not having more power than 220V at your house.

This is a pathetic ICE attempt to put EVs in a bad light by cherry picking little things. .

I get it that there are those that Love the roar of a V8, I also like it, but also I love all things quiet and there is nothing wrong with EV's, YES it requires a change in attitude and approach to plugging in and charging at this point, no different than being in an auto in the early 1900's and having to look for a gas station and hope you have a can to hold the gas if your auto ran out of gas on the road to get some gas back to it.

We can make all types of excuses and I will say that many of the people in this very limited study are too lazy to change the way they do things based on the Yahoo story, sadly, no way to really confirm this as the story is cherry picking out of the 33 research papers written, no clear actual study was done.

Scott Hardman (0000-0002-0476-7909) - ORCID | Connecting Research and Researchers

As such, I again have to say this is an ICE writer with an agenda of making BEVs look bad anyway they can manipulate the data.

The original story is not the hatchet job Yahoo has posted.

Electric Car Owners Switching to Gas Because Charging Is a Hassle: Study (businessinsider.com)

So the 20% of California owners who switched back to ICE was due to the simple truth of not having a Level 2 charger at their apartment or place of work and so charging at 110 was just not functional for them at the time.

They never said anything about not liking the auto's, the focus is on the lack of charging infrastructure that even the Business Insider writer pointed out he only had a 110 at home and after 36miles of charge, drove in the morning to work to fully charge up the battery before returning to home.

I would say if he is a writer going to cover the EV industry, then he should have paid to have a Level 2 charger installed at home or his work should do this for him.

We all know that Apartment dwellers and cheap home owners who are not wanting to install at the early stage a proper charger are not the audience for ownership yet. Common sense, I could go on but this has gotten too long already as I think I made my point.

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1 hour ago, David said:

Just look at the Asian auto makers who build their entry level auto's in cheap labor markets and import them here for sale to cover that market.

Honda assembles most Civics in the US in Indiana factory.  Toyota assembles Corolla in Mississippi.

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30 minutes ago, David said:

no different than being in an auto in the early 1900's and having to look for a gas station and hope you have a can to hold the gas if your auto ran out of gas on the road to get some gas back to it.

"Hoping you have a can"?? 🙄

So you're saying it was acceptable 100 years ago, so it should be acceptable today?
People don't want to do ANYTHING like they did 20 years ago, never mind 120 years ago!

- - - - -
But to repeat- automobiles were not used 100 years ago like you seem to think they were. There was no long-distance traveling, or looking for unknown gas stations. There was no significant range anxiety. Cars were primarily occasional-use / local vehicles (at the point you imply there were no plentiful gas stations). Fueling locations were more common for lesser demand.

In 1920 in the U.S., there were about 22,000 filling stations & curbside pumps, for about 7,000,000 vehicles.
That's 318 vehicles per location

In 2020, in the U.S., there were about 60,500 gas stations for about 375,000,000 vehicles.
That's 6188 vehicles per location.

Seems you need to drop your ill-informed claim that people were scrabbling around, panicked, looking for fuel 100 years ago. Wasn't the case.

- - - - - 
Today, you have a fledgling & compromised (not-uncommonly plagued by defects & restrictions) public charging system, or a slow home system, in a time people depend on their autos daily. It's not a secretive IC cabal pushing this, it's just the facts.

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18 minutes ago, balthazar said:

"Hoping you have a can"?? 🙄

So you're saying it was acceptable 100 years ago, so it should be acceptable today?
People don't want to do ANYTHING like they did 20 years ago, never mind 120 years ago!

- - - - -
But to repeat- automobiles were not used 100 years ago like you seem to think they were. There was no long-distance traveling, or looking for unknown gas stations. There was no significant range anxiety. Cars were primarily occasional-use / local vehicles (at the point you imply there were no plentiful gas stations). Fueling locations were more common for lesser demand.

In 1920 in the U.S., there were about 22,000 filling stations & curbside pumps, for about 7,000,000 vehicles.
That's 318 vehicles per location

In 2020, in the U.S., there were about 60,500 gas stations for about 375,000,000 vehicles.
That's 6188 vehicles per location.

Seems you need to drop your ill-informed claim that people were scrabbling around, panicked, looking for fuel 100 years ago. Wasn't the case.

- - - - - 
Today, you have a fledgling & compromised (not-uncommonly plagued by defects & restrictions) public charging system, or a slow home system, in a time people depend on their autos daily. It's not a secretive IC cabal pushing this, it's just the facts.

When an argument like THIS one presents itself and is EXPLAINED EXACTLY like that, there is NO way that I can not agree with it!!!

 

 

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34 minutes ago, balthazar said:

In 1920 in the U.S., there were about 22,000 filling stations & curbside pumps, for about 7,000,000 vehicles.
That's 318 vehicles per location

There were 15,000 in 1920, not 22,000. That skews your math a bit and it also doesn’t consider density of numbers (filling stations) as it relates to the population (and where people were living) at the time.

https://uh.edu/engines/epi975.htm

 

https://americanhistory.si.edu/america-on-the-move/fill-up

Hell, because of our dependence on foreign oil, we had this in the 70s so maybe you need to stop acting like gas has a trouble free existence in just its firsts 60 years in this country. Just saying.

 

8B486EDF-56CD-4067-AE61-25A368A361AD.jpeg

F428D098-26FF-4327-96BE-686AD5D74ECB.jpeg

Edited by surreal1272
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Id say, people started travelling long distances AFTER WW2 when the American highway system got on its way, the economy booming at the same time because of the spoils of winning the war yada yada yada.

At the same time, gas stations opened up along the highways and byways and in the suburbs where the GIs bought their new homes starting the boomer generation...   

The drive-in movie theatres and diners  where the automobile hung around also had gasoline stations by their side.

 So...where we want to complain about EV charging stations and the lack-thereof, it took 50 years for the gasoline infrastructure to come to be AFTER the genesis of the automobile. 

31 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Today, you have a fledgling & compromised (not-uncommonly plagued by defects & restrictions) public charging system, or a slow home system, in a time people depend on their autos daily. It's not a secretive IC cabal pushing this, it's just the facts.

Its really NOT about it (EV charging system) being a fledging and it being compromised.

Its MORE to do about it being a SLOW HOME SYSTEM

There is NO reason for it to be built THAT slow.

There are POLITICAL and BIG OIL push back LIES for THIS EV charging system that is being built THAT slow. 

Especially in a time when people depend on their autos  daily as you put it.

These LIES that some POLITICAL and BIG OIL clowns have been spewing have allowed this disconnect.

YES...its a fledgling entity. But I wanna know why, a SINGLE business man (Elon Musk and Tesla) has opened up MORE charging stations than an entire COUNTRY FULL of BUSINESS opportunities?  And this SINGLE business man has been doing this for a DECADE already while other business entities are sitting on their asses and just give us EXCUSES as to why EVs will NEVER work...

 

 

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30 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

There were 15,000 in 1920, not 22,000.

It was 15,000 filling stations plus "half as many curbside pumps". No reason to eliminate those fueling locations I can see.

32 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

because of our dependence on foreign oil, we had this in the 70s so maybe you need to stop acting like gas has a trouble free existence in just its firsts 60 years in this country. Just saying.

I'm not denying that historical fact, but I was addressing David's common claim about 'the dawn of the auto industry / the early 1900s' specifically. My post was no attempt to give a complete historical overview.

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