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Q3 2019: Ford Motor Company


Drew Dowdell

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15 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

I know 200,000 units isn't the 300,000+ of when it first came out but there is something very wrong about not being able to profit(or enough profit) to justify a 150,000-200,000 units per year product. 

I think I said something similar a while ago.  If Ford can't make a profit on 200,000 Fusions a year, the problem isn't the Fusion. 

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2 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I think I said something similar a while ago.  If Ford can't make a profit on 200,000 Fusions a year, the problem isn't the Fusion. 

Corporate incompetence, I'd assume.  

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31 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

SUVs down 10%, which wouldn’t be so bad if they weren’t killing all their cars to focus on SUVs.

Per your Mercedes excuse, two of their most important SUVs are just beginning to hit lots or not quiet yet. Escape & Explorer. 

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2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

I think I said something similar a while ago.  If Ford can't make a profit on 200,000 Fusions a year, the problem isn't the Fusion. 

But unless stated otherwise: it’s an assumption that the Fusion doesn’t make a profit. It’s quite possible that a high volume CUV just makes MORE profit, and CUVs of course are the market trend.

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11 minutes ago, balthazar said:

But unless stated otherwise: it’s an assumption that the Fusion doesn’t make a profit. It’s quite possible that a high volume CUV just makes MORE profit, and CUVs of course are the market trend.

If it makes a profit, why cede that segment to the Japanese?

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Japanese make more profit on CUVs too. And as sedan volume continues to erode, their margins get slimmer & slimmer. I believe Ford and to the extent it did; GM are ahead of the curve on this.

Back when buying a non-sedan family vehicle meant a hulking V8 BOF Explorer, yeah; a sedan was a clear preference to many. But with CUVs matching sedans in size, power, economy, amenities... why would more folk than now want a sedan again?

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43 minutes ago, USA-1 Vortec 6.2 said:

FMC needs to hack CEO Hackett like yesterday, he's the weakest link that wanted to cut all cars.

Why keep a dying segment? 

Isn't GM getting cars as well? They're keeping the Camaro and Malibu and the $h!ty twins. It's only a matter of time before the micro cars are gone, too. 

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3 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

When the CUV craze dies out, will buyers want sedans again?   I think the Asian brands are smart in not abandoning the segment. 

Electrics will kill off the sedan as eventually with better battery tech, why go with the limits of a sedan when a CUV can cover much more.

I see a niche market for cars in the future and that is for the long haul on how I see it.

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"We're not getting out of passenger cars, we're getting out of sedans," said Kumar Galhotra, Ford's group vice president and president of Ford North America. "It's language, but it's a very important distinction. I learned this from my boss, (CEO) Jim Hackett: Silhouettes are changing. The data is compelling that silhouettes are changing." "

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54 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

"We're not getting out of passenger cars, we're getting out of sedans," said Kumar Galhotra, Ford's group vice president and president of Ford North America. "It's language, but it's a very important distinction. I learned this from my boss, (CEO) Jim Hackett: Silhouettes are changing. The data is compelling that silhouettes are changing." "

I actually agree with this and as we move away form ICE auto's to skateboard platforms of EVs, if the public wants a sedan style coach, they will get it easily as the platform will allow a quick change in coach design to be attached to the skateboard.

In this regards we are like back in the early 1900's when everything was body on frame and we had a multitude of coach builders using GM or Ford Frames.

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The ‘skateboard’ really changes nothing except within Engineering. Every combination will have to go thru the same multitude of rigorous testing & certification. They will also have to be assembled to pass crash testing.

Coachbuilding was primarily done on expensive marques, so while there were plenty of Cadillacs custom-built... there were no Fords and surprisingly; almost no Lincolns. When Henry Ford died, there was no Lincoln hearse to carry him, so -rather than use the competition’s Cadillac hearse- they used a Packard.

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2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

Why keep a dying segment? 

Isn't GM getting cars as well? They're keeping the Camaro and Malibu and the $h!ty twins. It's only a matter of time before the micro cars are gone, too. 

Yes, GM is discontinuing all Chevy and Buick cars, but the Malibu and Camaro, the Impala was 3rd or 4th in a segment that's fading fast, but it's mainly going away because it and the LaCrosse ride on the same Epsilon II platform as the Cadillac XTS that was being phased out and the plant they were built in was closing right behind the last car out. Impala/LaCrosse/XTS was a 10 yr old platform brought out in 2010. Cad. CT cars are all RWD/AWD so it didn't fit the current portfolio, although it still sold pretty well with Livery companies/drivers. When there is another Recession and they need to start building smaller cars again it wouldn't be that difficult for GM or Ford to fire the stamping machines back up for smaller cars if need be, being that most of the CUV's ride on the same chassis because the cars on the chassis do get a bit better mpg with less weight and drag.

Fusion obviously isn't dying sales wise, so they should keep at least that sedan along with the Mustang although Fusion has had it's fair share of Recalls with the 2018 Recall where lose steering wheels that were separating completely from the steering shaft (which is insane) and the 2016 Recall where the drivers seat track assembly had bad welds that were breaking in accidents probably caused by the steering wheel falling off that was caused by the most recent 2019 recall where the shifter cables corrode and break off from the transmission 🙄🤔 maybe Ford is making a good decision to discontinue the disaster that it was.

I think the Asian brands will following suit as well, they know the sedans days are numbered, but they sell a cheap econbox that many A to B buyers still want...for now.  

27 minutes ago, balthazar said:

The ‘skateboard’ really changes nothing except within Engineering. Every combination will have to go thru the same multitude of rigorous testing & certification. They will also have to be assembled to pass crash testing.

Coachbuilding was primarily done on expensive marques, so while there were plenty of Cadillacs custom-built... there were no Fords and surprisingly; almost no Lincolns. When Henry Ford died, there was no Lincoln hearse to carry him, so -rather than use the competition’s Cadillac hearse- they used a Packard.

Really? That's pretty sad, he definitely should have gone out in a Lincoln. He probably told the family "Don't you dare put my body in a GD Cadillac!" HA!!

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1 hour ago, dfelt said:

I actually agree with this and as we move away form ICE auto's to skateboard platforms of EVs, if the public wants a sedan style coach, they will get it easily as the platform will allow a quick change in coach design to be attached to the skateboard.

In this regards we are like back in the early 1900's when everything was body on frame and we had a multitude of coach builders using GM or Ford Frames.

Long Live Body on Frame Domestic pickups! 💪🏻😁🇺🇸

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

"We're not getting out of passenger cars, we're getting out of sedans," said Kumar Galhotra, Ford's group vice president and president of Ford North America. "It's language, but it's a very important distinction. I learned this from my boss, (CEO) Jim Hackett: Silhouettes are changing. The data is compelling that silhouettes are changing." "

So no more Lincoln sedans even?! Or are they still struggling to keep Lincoln on it's own?

3 hours ago, dfelt said:

Electrics will kill off the sedan as eventually with better battery tech, why go with the limits of a sedan when a CUV can cover much more.

I see a niche market for cars in the future and that is for the long haul on how I see it.

So you think no more Model S or 3?! Hard to believe that.

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3 hours ago, Robert Hall said:

When the CUV craze dies out, will buyers want sedans again?   I think the Asian brands are smart in not abandoning the segment. 

Asian brands will definitely follow, maybe not all sedans like Ford, but just wait.

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5 hours ago, USA-1 Vortec 6.2 said:

So you think no more Model S or 3?! Hard to believe that.

Yes, I think eventually once Tesla has their truck, complete series from compact to full size CUV/SUV that the sedan will die too except for a limited amount of maybe 1 or 2 at most sedans.

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