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You do NOT know if these adjustments are fake UNLESS you are the owner of the establishment or the accountant... You may feel so, and it very well could be greed (I aint denying it...just to be clear), but in a FREE MARKET ECONOMY there is only ONE way a consumer could quell greed. And that is to choose NOT to buy... Short supply... And THAT means the dealership ALSO may have its expenses SKY ROCKET and yeah! It WILL be passed on to the consumer... By whom? You want government interference? There is ONLY one way that a business gets torn down. By lack of business. And the ONLY entity that has THAT kind of power is guess who? The CONSUMER!!! So dont buy!!! NOT the same thing. Water and groceries (actual food...NOT Doritos, Twinkies and Coca-Cola) are ESSENTIAL to LIFE. (NEW) automobiles are not. When it comes to automobiles, there are other forms of transportation. Public busses. But most importantly, USED cars. But they too, their prices have skyrocketed. But NOT as much a NEW... and THAT is it right there! A consumer HAS a choice. Buy used. its NOT an illusion. Its just a choice that YOU dont want to explore. Boo hoo hoo... In other countries, in Greece, in Italy, in France, Germany (West or East) in the United Kingdom, in China and Japan, in India and in Pakistan and all of the Middle East and Africa...especially in the past, cars, used or new, were ALWAYS unobtainable. It is NOT a right to buy a new car at YOUR definition of what a fair price is... Keep in mind that you DO have the right to HAGGLE the market adjusted price. The dealership has the RIGHT to refuse YOUR offer. Just like YOU have the right to REFUSE their offer! Your argument has not convinced me to change my mind. You are just going off a feeling from your hatred of dealerships that dealerships are bad. But your discussion is not a rational one. Its an EMOTIONAL one. You and Robert BOTH have downvoted a point that says that a price CLEARLY MARKED AND VISIBLE ON THE ITEM BEING SOLD IS THEIVERY... Again...an automobile is NOT water or bread just in case both of you get confused on where on the essential scale to life the automobile belongs to and where water and bread belongs to... I suggest both of you put your hurt feelings aside and analyze this statement PROPERLY: A PRICE IS CLEARLY MARKED AND VISIBLE ON THE ITEM BEING SOLD

You are arguing for other things that are happening at dealerships. When a price is CLEARLY marked on the item being sold, ESPECIALLY if its CLEARLY written that the price has been adjusted and its HIGHER than what it was before...when BOTH prices are CLEARLY marked, the before lower price and the new HIGHER price due to unforeseen circumstances... then its a LEGAL practice... I dont know how more HONEST and OPEN and CLEAR and CANDID and STRAIGHTFORWARD and business can be... A business does NOT have to tell the consumer and justify the prices it charges... Its up to the CONSUMER to decide for himself if the price is WORTH it to him to buy. And if the price is CLEARLY marked on the item, ESPECIALLY if its WRITTEN that it was marked up HIGHER for market adjustment. You clearly have a grudge on dealerships. And they may be warranted. Just NOT regarding market price adjustments. You see, rebates are ALSO price market adjustments. On the opposite side of the spectrum. You could whine and cry and downvote all you want about market price adjustments. Its LEGAL and its FAIR game. It may not be FAIR market, but that does not make it that the dealership is thieving if the price is CLEARLY marked on the item ESPECIALLY if there is additional information stating the price went higher ESPECIALLY if the buyer AGREES to buy the item on the HIGHER price...

Its just business. And the right to DO business in a free market economy. Im a business owner....

Family used to have a cabin lakefront in upstate NY- my grandfather built it in 1970 and growing up my family went there every summer. Hiked thru the woods, explored around the railroad & the old mine works, swam every day. My grandfather spread lots of coarse sand well out, so it was great to walk in / swim. You could see your feet at chest depth. There was a 'float' a ways out, a row boat, I took my sons there many summers, my sister took her girls there. Sold in 2013 as everyone's priorities slowly changed, my grandmother had entered dementia and my other grandfather local to there came to be at odds with our side of the family, and other family/friends there passed away.

I myself would rather have a GM or FORD store, check out the item and decide if I want to pay the price they are asking and if not move onto another company. Dealerships are hell to deal with and the public has made this very clear as well as states where they have sued and forced a dealership to sell due to the sleaze tactics they have taken against people.

I dont like to have a consumer tell me what pricing is 'fair market' Id like for the consumer to decide with his wallet. Not his mouth. And I will come up with the conclusion at the end of the month with the risk that Ive took, that hard work that I do and the quality of the item that I sell dictate if the pricing I chose is fair market...

^ I don’t get why you are trying so hard to defend dealers and their sleazy practices. F’em. Obsolete franchise laws keep these bottom feeder scumbags in business. Dealers have an obsolete business model, provide no value beyond warranty work and service.

Mercedes will be fine. Their EV's cost what their gasoline cars cost. Chevy and Ford's EV's (and Hyundai and VW) cost double what their gas cars cost. GMC never sold a vehicle over $100k before, Cadillac tried the Allante, XLR, STS-V, CT6 and those all bombed because outside of the Escalade, no one is paying $100k adjusted for inflation for a Cadillac. So I am not sure where all these buyers for $100k Cadillac and GMC's are going to come from. The Mustang Mach-E was the worst selling Ford SUV last year, the Mustang coupe had it's worst sales year in history and still outsold the Mach-E by almost double. In December the Mach-E was the worse selling Ford outside of the GT which I think is out of production and the Fusion which for sure is out of production. And simple reason for that, most of the car buying public isn't looking to spend $50-60k on a small Ford crossover. Same reason the VW iD4 is a dud, and the Hyundai Ionic 5 will be a dud.

So here's another "checking in" post after 3 and a half years away. I find it difficult to stay interested enough to keep up with social media these days so excuse the absence. I'll try to keep this one short and sweet. I can't quite remember, but I believe my last update came when I was still in Michigan. Anyways, as I alluded to in that post, I ended up relocating to Charleston, SC after exhausting my options around Detroit. For work, I've now completely switched industries, transitioning into home energy. It pays the bills, so I can't complain about that. Once again, though, I might be looking for yet another destination to call home in the next year or so. The Southern lifestyle has it's advantages, but I don't think it's for me. On the automotive front, it shouldn't come as any surprise that I've added a few more to the list. If I didn't mention it previously, I sold the ATS and daily drove the Miata for a while. Eventually I picked up a 2014 Mazda6 to use for my temporary job. To make moving easier, I sold that one as well before heading to SC. I then picked up a cheap beater in the form of a 2002 Lexus IS300 to live out my 2JZ fantasies. After those fantasies turned out to be a bust (I managed to buy the neediest one apparently), I jumped ship to something completely different. Before I get into that, I should note that I still have the Miata after 5 years and 3 months. It now has 165k, a new clutch, and one rust-repaired quarter panel. Shortly after moving south the clutch pilot bearing started going out which necessitated it becoming a garage queen for a while. It's now back in service but really doesn't get driven much, having only added 5k miles to the odometer the last two years. Lately, I've wrestled with the thought of selling it, but each time I get serious, I can't go through with it. This brings me to Tesla. I'm now on my second Model 3 after a transformative test drive in the fall of 2020. I always keep an open mind when it comes to choosing cars, but I really didn't expect to enjoy it as much as I did. Switching to electric hasn't been as much of a struggle as I initially feared, either. We've even added a Model Y to the mix, leaving the Miata as our sole gas-powered vehicle. With that said, here's the current lineup. Cheers!

Maybe you watched the movie called "Lake Placid." It's kind of hokey, with a dumb premise and not that much suspense. There are great whites in the Med. They track the attacks and the percentage of which are fatal. Most of them were, in fact, in Italy and Greece, both with a lot of coastline. Sharm El Sheikh, Egypt had a shark problem a couple of years ago, which the locals supposedly underreported, and which angered a lot of people, to keep their critical tourist business levels normal. - - - - - Coincidentally, I was at the supermarket today. Within the last few weeks, I had a cup of Greek yogurt with the flavor of Toasted Marshmallow. I didn't know if I'd like it or not. It was beyond delicious. Today, I couldn't find that particular flavor. Some servers in bar/pub joints handle this situation differently. I recently had a very good pizza and ordered a soft drink, like I usually do. I wasn't charged for the soft drink when she put the tab on my table. It's probably because they sell so much liquor. They know that, if a person notices that omission, it will go right into their tip, unless the person is a total cheapskate. It went into her tip.

That’s THREE SLEAZY MIDDLEMEN!!

@surreal1272 Why are you laughing? First off, I phrased it wrong, Uber wanted 7% then 5% of the totality of the bill charged to the customer. Uber then charges a fee to its customer, MY CUSTOMER, for the delivery... Uber double dips and charges ITS customer, ME and MY customer, a fee to cover its expenses... Fair? Why yes! It seems fair until you analyze how shytty that deal is for me... I COULD charge a fee to MY customer the 7% or 5% to offset MY fee that I have incurred to UBER for a delivery service. But then the customer, all HE does is just pay fees through his ass... Uber NEEDS to cover its expenses... Yeah...lets see what its expenses are... Gasoline prices? NO! NOT THEIR CAR. Wear and tear on the delivery car? NO! NOT THEIR CAR. Pay roll? NO! They dont pay their employees as they do NOT have any employees. They are a middleman service to that to. They say they are a contractor helping me and the customer have a meeting so I could supply a hot dog and the delivery guy to deliver said hot dog to the customer. They pay NO hourly wage. Just an amount of money based the number of deliveries made. They pay NO employee insurance, no uniform, supply nothing to the driver... And yet, @Robert Hall and you too, since you find it funny, you both find an OBVIOUS greed filled middleman as no problem... I, if I agreed to UBER EATS, I have to buy the unmade product, I have to supply the energy to make the product, I have to PAY somebody to make the product, I have to deal with the wear and tear of MY equipment, pay my electric and gas bill, and I have to GIVE Uber 7% of the bill of MY customer, because HE wants MY hamburger, I have to GIVE UBER 7% (or 5% when they 'negotiated' a second time) of MY bill that I CHARGE MY CUSTOMER... You guys have a very warped opinion on what is a greedy middleman... Uber does NOT support my business. Uber LEACHES off of businesses..

In your case it sure doesnt... You both laughed at the "Its just business" post. Its your right NOT to do business with a business that does NOT deserve your business... I aint saying anything to contradict your point of view. But I KNOW that a business DOES have the right to price their items as how THEY see fit. And YOU have the right to NOT buy.... And I have been saying THAT from the very beginning...

Blackwings are solidly over $100K and Cadillac will sell every one they make, no problem. And GMC has been selling over $90K already, plus the Denali Ultimate is coming sometime this year (starts at $80K). You can push an Escalade up nearly$50K in options, so you know the Ultimate will go over $100K with ease. And if you don't think GMC buyers spend big money, then why are the AT4 & Denali like 70% of all Sierra sales?

I havent watched the movie Lake Placid. Heard of it, never seen it. Maybe I watch it someday. I will look out for it. Sharks in Greece and Italy? Yeah! They dont bother me as I know there are dolphins that will save me from them. THIS is my justification for not being afraid of the Mediterranean. And yes, Im being serious! Quebec lakes...look how scary this fish looks. It swims fast and it could spear me instead of me spearing it. And you know...Canadian lakes and some American ones too, have this scary thing lurking in the deep. Sure its nice and cute when its this small But the damn thing grows. 20 feet. As long as a freakin' Great White. And let me tell you, there arent any dolphins around... This one is from B.C. But look at the boat and the name of the company and you tell me why I shouldnt shyte my pants. LOL It even breaches the water like a Great White. I am being funny though. I aint scared. But my creepiness for lake water is very real for whatever reason. Greek yogurt that tastes like roasted marshmallow? Sounds intriguing. Only in America would they think of something like that!

You missed... I added this part to it: I know... I was approached by UBER start deliveries by UBER EATS. I told them to go phoque themselves... They wanted as high as a 7% profit sharing from me with the delivery that they make on TOP of what THEY charge the customer for the delivery... They wanted to become MY partner without taking the phoquing risks of the actual business I worked hard to build on... Then they came with an offer of 5%. McDonald's gives them something like 2% or lower... But McDonald's is also a HUGE business that can take that kind of thievery. Its just a additional advertising convenience for McDonalds to have DoorDash and Uber Eats deliver for them... You have NO qualm to pay for a service and support a middleman like that though. As long as YOU benefit from it. But the price you pay for that service... Its worth it to you. Its a very hypocritical stance you got going on there. But you probably dont know how high of a percentage UBER and Amazon collect from the business to delivery. But maybe you do, but you feel that THAT kind of profit making is justified as long as it benefits you... Very hypocritical... Maybe that kind of percentage does NOT affect big business like a huge retail grocery store or a McDonald's, but that kind of middleman KILLS the family owned business... Very very hypocritical stance and business practices you support...

@Robert Hall Again with the laughy thing. LOL What @balthazar said is true. I wanted to say something like that but I was trying to tie it in with dealerships. I wanted to say something like middlemen and small business is the backbone of America. But I do realize that dealerships are no longer small business. So I refrained from the obvious connection that Balthy obviuosly had no problems making. And rightfully so for him pointing out the idiocy of yours and @surreal1272 take on it... But then again, grocery store chains are no longer small business either. We could buy our groceries at farmer's markets. You know, cut out the middleman... But some of us also buy our groceries from Amazon based delivery services... I know... I was approached by UBER start deliveries by UBER EATS. I told them to go phoque themselves... They wanted as high as a 7% profit sharing from me with the delivery that they make on TOP of what THEY charge the customer for the delivery... They wanted to become MY partner without taking the phoquing risks of the actual business I worked hard to build on... Then they came with an offer of 5%. McDonald's gives them something like 2% or lower... But McDonald's is also a HUGE business that can take that kind of thievery. Its just a additional advertising convenience for McDonalds to have DoorDash and Uber Eats deliver for them... If you want to talk about thieving, greedy, evil middlemen, maybe we should be talking about Amazon and UBER and DoorDash and shyte like that...

The irony here is just about EVERYTHING everyone buys is thru ‘sleazy middlemen’, making sleazy profits over & above the manufacturer. Supermarkets; just bulldoze them all down. ?

And the truth comes out... Your argument is NOT about greedy dealerships... Haggling or not, You can STILL choose to buy a product or not... And its your RIGHT to haggle the price of your NEW car. Why do you want to eliminate that right you have? Wouldnt it be great if we could haggle the price of whatever object of materialism we want? Yes its a hassle to haggle, but it does benefit our wallets. A fixed price and you are screwed. Anyway, you dont HAVE to haggle the price of your new car. Just agree to pay whatever the dealership is asking of you. Same as if you would if you bought from Tesla...

Haggling on prices is fine at a flea market or Turkish bazaar, seems absurd to do a new consumer product. I don't think haggling works if I go into the Apple store and want to buy a new laptop or order dinner in a restaurant. Fixed price, I can choose if I want to buy that product or not.

skipping over what? A dealership is a business for the millionth time. It does not matter if they are the middleman or not. Price hikes happen. Expenses of any kind, imaginary or not, are to be passed unto the consumer. You brought up Tesla. I pointed out that they have hiked prices up BEFORE the dealerships have and BEFORE Covid struck to which @Robert Hall says that is different. Different from what I asked. All you and Robert have done is just sides skirt the question as to why its different stating that dealerships are middlemen and they are evil and Tesla is a manufacturer. THAT does NOTHING for YOUR side of the argument. Greed? If a price hike happens from a manufacturer, then its going to be passed down to the dealer which then is going to be passed down to the consumer when there is a middleman. If a price hike happens from a direct to consumer manufacturer, the price hike is passed down to the consumer. The dealership is a business therefore the % might be higher than the direct to consumer model. The dealership HAS to make a profit. Its a BUSINESS... What I gather is that you and Robert do not want certain types of business models to exist. But be careful what you wish for. Direct to consumer business models may not be as efficient or less profit oriented that you guys think they may be and a savings for the consumer maay never happen. You cant haggle the price on any Tesla. Prices go up but it seems never go down. A software upgrade on a new thing that Tesla wants to unlock and the consumer pays for it with a price hike. Tesla had a lower KW/H , eliminated that battery option and offered a bigger battery locked to the lower KW/H battery. People wanting to pay for the lower KW/H battery paid a lower price for it and the people wanting to pay for the full KW/H paid a higher priice tag. Fair? Yes? Problem is, both options got a higher price tag after 6 or so months. Software. Its just software. Funny how Tesla prices have never come down... Its just software... The Model S is a 10 year old car. Its price tag has gone up and NEVER discounted in 10 years. Mostly software upgrades but no clearance sales... Justified for the hardware upgrades, but software upgrades. And why no option to offer consumers not to opt for software that is not wanted to counterbalance any price hikes? And then to boot, price hikes whenever the "market" demands it so and its OK for Tesla because its a direct to consumer model. THAT should be the OPPOSITE of what you guys propose... And funny how Tesla has NO clearance sales... Supply and demand? Funny how THAT works in Tesla's greed but it shouldnt for a dealership... Just be honest about why you dont like dealerships and cut out the bullshyte saying dealerships are greedy for price market adjustments.

There's the part I was looking for. It's "coming" but not before they released a low demand ugly ass sedan. Again, your criticism of MB does not equal the criticism you have bestowed upon literally everyone else. And congrats. That EQB will have a whole 26 miles more range as the equally paltry ranged Jaguar E-Pace. The "best or nothing" right?

And your proof of this is what exactly? The EQS? It has no gasoline equivalent. The closest thing to it is the S-Class and it sure as hell isn't that. The EQB? That will start, minimum $50K while the GLB starts at $38K. Why are you lying?

Dude... Its a BUSINESS. In a FREE MARKET ECONOMY. Greed has NOTHING to do with it. Its all about...BUSINESS. Haggle the new adjusted price. You still have that right. They refuse, you could go into another dealership. Haggle THEIR price adjustment. If they also refuse. Ask yourself a question as to why in the world would a business, 2 in fact, REFUSED a transaction... If there is a refusal on their part, its NOT because of greed. If one agrees to haggle and eliminate the price adjustment for you, you have NOT given YOUR business to a business that price gouges you. Maybe. Again, you really do NOT know why that particular business has opted to raise their prices and REFUSE to haggle on the price adjustment to sell to you. It could be about greed. it could be that the dealership cant afford to sell lower. It could be many things. But if HE refuses too many transactions because consumers are savvy NOT to buy from that place or because that dealership cant make money off their cars FROM MSRP pricing, than that dealership WILL close its doors. So...no matter how much whining you are doing, its just business at the end of the day. Nothing personal to you, the consumer. Just business. Dont buy. Its simple. Michael replied on Apr 25, 2014 12:22PM PERMALINK The FTC did not write this. It is the sole opinion of 3 employees of the FTC. And if you think this is the best way to buy a car, go for it. Let me know how it works out when you're paying $1500 more than you needed to because the manufacturer won't negotiate. Also, let me know how you like those cars that are put out by narrow minded engineers that don't fit the real world because they've had no input from dealers in the real world who are listening to their customers. You are the one that is downvoting the facts. All I here form you is just hurt feelings that you have about dealerships...

Maybe he'd like to explain this from the FTC website (not directly written by the FTC, for the record). It was written in 2014 but it is still spot on in relation to the dealership monopolies and their lobbying power with various state governments. Again, if it is a "free market", then why are dealerships fighting the very principles of the same free market? https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/blogs/competition-matters/2014/04/who-decides-how-consumers-should-shop

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With a direct store model like Tesla, you cut out the middleman resellers (dealership ownership group). The middleman reseller model is obsolete and provides no advantages to consumers.

So what is the difference? Aside from whatever hurt feelings you have from dealerships. Leave that argument aside. We are solely talking about price... Ill repeat, SOLELY on what is written on a sticker price it is CLEARLY written. There are NO shenanigans... WHAT is the difference between that above...and this below? https://www.thestreet.com/tesla/news/tesla-has-raised-prices-again-here-are-the-changes-tsla @surreal1272 @Robert Hall @David You guys have high fived each other...now that you have finished high fivin' yourselves, its time to actually discuss with rationality and not with emotions... Tesla is NOT a dealership ownership group. Its a business. They reserve the right to hike prices as they see fit yet you wanna block the dealership ownership groups from doing the same. Why? Discuss. Thank-you. I have stated MY stance SEVERAL times on what I think businesses and consumers could and should do in a free market economy...

YOU ARE SO FULL OF BS!!! GM has plenty of rides selling north of $100K and GMC is proving under the Denali to be one of their best profit margin lines of auto's. Ford #'s for 2021 show more people are choosing Green Mach-e to quote their own press release of numbers: December 2021 Press Release (ford.com) Mach-e sold 27,140 for 2021 increase of 904,566.7% Mustang sold 61,090 for 2021 decreased 14.2% Meanwhile Mrecedes-Benz really is not increasing sales in the US, Van sales dropped 20+% in 2021 and EV sales for the US is a pathetic 443 EQS sold. GLOBALLY, Sales are down 5%, to quote the MB press release on their BEV's: Deliveries of Mercedes-Benz plug-in hybrid and electric passenger cars reached a record 227,458 units (+69.3%) of which 48,936 were Mercedes-EQ battery electric passenger cars (BEV) (+154.8%). Including smart and Mercedes-Benz Vans, total BEV sales rose above 99,000 units. The bulk of this was China with Europe coming in second and still MB does not have anything for the masses in Europe.

Different scenario and argument. Its the dealership ownership groups that want to control what it is they want to control and in THAT regard, I will agree to your point of view on that. However, Musk's Tesla market adjusts their prices and RAISES the price more FREQUENTLY than what dealerships have done during Covid. In fact, Tesla has RAISED its prices SEVERAL times BEFORE Covid on a freakin' whim... Have you been vocal about that?

And if it’s such a “free market”, then explain why the mainstream brands have lobbied various state governments in an effort to block Tesla from selling in their states via the direct buy method they made popular, only to see one of the past complainers (Ford) do the EXACT same damn thing in China? That is not “free market”. That is trying to maintain a monopoly but go on thinking that folks have had real choices in auto buying.

Because “free market” derp derp. Skip the fact that folks have been conditioned to think this is an acceptable practice, for the last half century or so, by folks using that same excuse since day one. And all the down voting in the world does not change that fact.

All of this! I’d like to add that all this talk about “customer choice” is also an illusion but some folks clearly are not ready to hear about that and I’m not going to waste two pages of this thread trying to convince them of it. They can believe whatever they want. Doesn’t make it true though.

Given that I’ve actually worked at more than one dealership and dealt with countless others in multiple states, I will continue to stand by my past and current statements regarding dealerships and their less than honest practices that have Jack squat to with a “fee market” economy. This isn’t the first time Ford has had to do this and they are not the only company to go through this with their respective dealerships. Just skip the part where Ford said that these practices hurt their brand image (and it does). I am not going to go into a long winded post about why I think it is the way it is because I have already covered it before here, many times. And some folks wonder why a company like Ford decided to forgo dealerships and do the “buy direct” approach in the ever growing Chinese market.

Interesting. I’ve heard all this talk about dealerships and their “fair market” practices yet here is Ford jumping in to make sure they continue to be “fair”. I was under the assumption that this was an accepted practice by folks who constantly tout the need for dealerships. I mean why would Ford have to take preemptive action if these dealers were being so honest about their pricing as it relates to “fair market” values? (sarcasm wholly intended here for those who want to take this a certain way) https://www.yahoo.com/news/ford-threatens-dealers-wont-send-171821933.html

- - - - - Mercedes' issues are considerable- they claim they are 'the best' yet they've been riding on their coattails for a while now. They're years behind in getting BEs out, those BEs aren't class leading and they don't seem to know how to get them there, and the design language is confused and chaotic (when it isn't simply bland & tired). They also killed off all the V8s across the board, including AMGs; cars that only existed to showcase V8s. Vainly, they're going to try and sell 'AMG' BEs that are going to bring a slim fraction of a percent of the performance gain over non-AMG variants, compared to the gains the IC variants brought. AMG is done.

Yeah...like duh! I didnt realize myself... The ITALIAN Job... DUH! Im afraid to ask about you not wanting to swim in the oceans and the seas. Oddly enough, I dont like swimming in lakes. I dont like the muddy, murkiness nature of lake water. or at least the lakes that I have swam in Quebec. At least in those particular lakes anyhow. Believe it or not, I get creeped out from lakes. Nothing to get creeped out with, especially when compared to the oceans. Sharks and jellyfish and all kinds of fish that can and will kill a human. That does NOT creep me out. But safe, lake water scares me. Something aint right with my head me thinks...

I made a mistake. I said that Donald Sutherland was from Montreal. He is not. He was born in Saint John, New Brunswick. I do not know why I thought he was a Montreal native. Possibly because he frequented Montreal often in the 1980s? Maybe he was a resident of Montreal then? USDM FTR!!! I love the fact that they race Dodge vans in Japan and these vans are called...Dajibans. I just LOVE that word too. Dajiban. Dodge van. Daji ban. Wax on, wax off, Daniel-son.

Be careful @oldshurst442 . You’re going to use up all those down votes, and all because you don’t seem to like the facts when they come to your door.

Interesting that you are calling him out for hypocrisy but not the other poster who has wasted almost two pages now screaming about free market and customer choice yet he has a problem with those two concepts when it came knocking on his door. And that’s why I’m still laughing.

I’m laughing at your hypocrisy. You and restaurants like yours had a choice. Remember saying that over and over again? “Choice”? That is a result of the “free market”. That is all. You may now downvote this too.

@oldshurst442-Again, you have skipped over everything that has been said. That is why this is last response to you regarding it. Sincerely, Someone who has been in sales and negotiated such things damn near his entire life.

Stop the patronizing BS Olds. I know exactly what I am saying and others do to. If you want to ignore everything that runs counter to what you are saying, then that is on you but stop expecting others to buy into it. Please though, by all means, continue downvoting PHOQUEING facts.

Wrong. A dealerships HAS expenses. So does a manufacturer. Those expenses get passed on to the consumer. Nobody could make a judgement call on what prices need to be made. Only an owner could see fit what the market could sustain and what the business could sustain regarding price. The consumer has final say with his wallet. Words, like what you are doing here is MEANINGLESS... No. But I aint crying about greed and how the middleman is corrupt. Wah wah wah. Ill say it again. In a free market economy, a business has the right as they see fit, to price an item that they sell. The consumer has the right to NOT buy. Since in a free market economy there is no cap placed on profit, then the consumer has all the right in the world to vote with his wallet if he buys or not... Its simple as that.

Well, neither do you...you don't own a car dealership chain.

Exactly. Not even close to an apples to apples comparison.

That's different. A manufacturer raising product prices isn't the same is a corrupt middleman reseller tacking on fake 'market adjustments'.

The 'market price adjustments' are fake though, just some greedy garbage dealer trying to profit on short supply. They should be fined and lose their license to operate as a dealer, have their dealerships torn down. It's the same as sleazy merchants trying to sell water or groceries at fake inflated prices after a hurricane.

Same can be said for you since now you don’t support the middle man approach because it affects businesses like yours. Also hypocritical because it flies in the face of your “free market” mantra you have been going on about for the last page and a half. Funny how that works.