oldshurst442

Multiple sources is best. All sources have a certain level of bias leaning one way or other. And..there is an element of truth in ALL! And there is an element of deceit in all...to fit ones agenda. That is why one has to listen to multiple sources because one could filter the bullshyte better. But one has to be willing to not be biased himself when listening to the media. One has to be willing to be open and when one has a certain point of view and then realizes that his point of view may be wrong in any way, one must have the strength to change his world view...and THAT therein lies the difficulty of filtering out the bulllshyte. Because one may be willing to believe the bullshyte and to continue on with the falsehoods rather than the reality of it all...

Greek Orthodox priest in that...which reminds me....

I must admit. It does look...(gag me please)...good But nah...let me get the vile out of my mouth again by posting awesome Firebird/Trans Ams.

I just googled both to inform myself better. U of Penn is Ivy League. DUH Penn State is public. I shoulda known better.

I didnt know he was imprisoned let alone finish his degree while locked up? Oopsies. My bad. Penn State... Not the state pen. Although we all know he deserves 10-15 in solitary confinement...with a straight jacket, possibly? Fatso actually played basketball? How in the hell did he move on the court, he rolled? Joking aside, I thought he played football. And I thought he was quite good at it too.

^^^ Ummmm. BIG YUCK!!! That monstrosity is a kick in the head for me!!!! Let me correct it quickly!

Yeah...I didnt understand that. The car's front end was obliterated. It was blatant that the car was in an accident. I mean, the car had hit something...and it was clear that it was a hit and run... Joking aside, I was expecting the cops to pull out their guns telling him to put his hands up and slowly get out of his car. At hte very least, when he was approaching them, I was expecting the guns to come out. The dude, like you said, cockily got out, stumbled because he was still high and slowly moseyed on over to talk to the cops... Like...WTF was that? Maybe NYC cops are trained differently than the LAPD? Maybe I have seen toooo many LAPD cop related bang bang stories? But I though NYC cops were just as bad ass as their LAPD counterparts. My first visit to NYC, we were about 5-6 Greek Boys from Montreal visiting. In 1991. We were right in front of Macy's door. We were there about 5 minutes trying to decide what to do next, whether to go inside and buy something just to say we bought something at Macy's or just to continue on walking... All of a sudden, we heard two loud and husky voices to get the PHOQUE OUT!!! We were shocked. We didnt know where and who it came from. Then in no time, we saw 2 huge bodybuilder cops, 6'4" at least 260 lbs worth of muscle each and they were continuing to swear at us to get the phoque out of the door way and to stop loitering. We apologized and we said we would comply as we all shat our pants but they noticed our English wasnt local. They in turn apologized and asked us where we are from. We said Montreal and they told us to enjoy their city... But my story about NYC cops is the complete opposite of what transpired with that accident...

Me too actually. Or at the very least, cuff him, and while they are putting him the back seat of their Explorer, tell him to watch his head while slamming his head getting him in the car.

He shoulda got a coupla kicks to the head, in my opinion. The room coulda been completely black. The cops coulda kicked him in the back. And this song coulda been playin' in the background while each cop in the precinct got a go at him.

@trinacriabob I remember that commercial! I LOOOOVED that commercial. Yes...let the good times roll. In a luxury vehicle of your choice. Be it a majestic Kings Ranch F250 or a lowly Mercedes Benz E250... As funny as a European Mercedes taxi cab being a luxury car in North America.

Yeah...I saw that with Jay and I was afraid for him. I love Jay. Not as a late night TV host. I only liked him in that gig. But as a car ambassador, he is top notch. I do not know why he wasnt dragged to his feet, kicked a coupla times in the head and then cuffed. Maybe they didnt want to get too close to him....he is of the Asian Persuasion and NYC has been hit by hard by the Chinese Virus, um...Wuhan, um... Covid 19. Yeah. Covid 19 Novel virus. yeah. (a little bit of dark, racist humour on my side...but not really meant as a joke either...) (Is that wrong of me?) (Im sorry if I have offended anybody) (I truly am sorry...)

As dangerous as any other car being driven fast, recklessly and apparently high on drugs. https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-culture/a32067039/gemballa-mirage-gt-wrecked-in-manhattan/

Alot Whether you like it or not. According to YOUR definition of luxury. High end trims of pick-up trucks are luxury... If you dont agree with that, then E Class Mercedes is NOT luxury either... Pick your pill and stop the bullshyte!

Sure... You seem to do it all the time... What is a base E Class anyway? In Greece...its a taxi cab... You cant use the 100 000 dollar AMG on me...why? ALL YOUR WORDS... IN ESSENCE...YOU ARE ARGUING WITH.... YOURSELF

Yes we have. We've seen worse. A whole lot worse. And there are people still alive and still remember those bad bad times... We are a weak society as compared to prior generations... The bombs were not dropped and exploded on North American turf, but the effects of the war on the economy side of things affected North Americans. RATIONS And Im not even talking about Europe and how Europe was devastated by bombs and lack of food and disease on the streets along with dead bodies from war and internal in fighting and sabotaging and back stabbing and soldiers murdering innocent civilians and the list goes on and on and on. Not to mention self isolation when the bombs hit and Europeans prayed it was not their house exploding Im talking about America. The war effort in America had a severe economic impact. Detroit produced war machines. Not cars for about 3 years. It wasnt the boys who made them. It was the girls. The boys were off to war. The girls, the married ones, prayed that they didnt get a certain letter from Uncle Sam..... Many boys came back home in body bags... The only thing is, there was no self isolation in America during WW2 as there was in Japan, Europe and in today's situation. But there was no internet and no TV either back then...no video games. Some places in America barely had electricity and lights...even in 1942... Not everybody had a job prior to 1939 either(start of WW2 for everybody else other than the US) so buying consumer products was not a thing...like we do today....even in a Covid19 lockdown. We could still go to Wallmart and buy a Playstation 4, or workout equipment because our favorite gym is closed... We could still order take-out. That kind of consumerism was not even dreamt of back in 1939... Hell...even after the war in 1945...that concept wasnt even conceived. Drive thrus though in the 1950s? maybe? We also have credit today...unless of course those of us who over consume and are maxed out from buying too many Starbucks coffees and useless contraptions... But even then... the US household does have on average 3-4 TVs and at least 2 computers and 2 smart phones at their disposal during this crisis with unlimited internet... We also have 2-3 cars in our Average Joe homes... Jobs? Yeah...those will be coming back after all this. Businesses will re-open. Those that went away...will spawn new businesses. After all...American consumerism is a way of life. That wont go away... And to those that will have a hard time getting back on their feet BECAUSE of overspending in the past... HOPEFULLY THIS will RESET THEIR mindset and we could get back to a much more simpler time and material objects are not coveted as much as we coveted them prior to this pandemic. Stay safe. Lets be careful on how we interact with our immediate environment and hopefully their is a solution around the corner soon. But we have faced much much tougher economic times than this. Human Mortality is always grim, so I wont downplay anything regarding that. THAT would be inhumane. IN OTHER WORDS: We also have 2-3 cars in our Average Joe homes... CASH FOR CLUNKERS IS NOT ALL THAT IMPORTANT RIGHT ABOUT NOW... To get the industry rolling again? In another thread...I was a major contributor in arguing for and against what constitutes a luxury vehicle... Well...all that is NOT IMPORTANT... ALL auto manufactures may now need to go back into time and re-introduce back to basics automobiles... Honda CVCCs, BMW ISETTAs, Ford Model Ts... Forget about Longhorn Laramies and AMG E Classes for the moment after this crisis is done with...and then maybe cash for clunkers could work out... 50 000 dollar pickup trucks with all the frills, bells and whistles is totally not what is important and needed. All the ApplePlay connectivity to tell us where to spend our money is not what is important and needed. The 20 inch rims and Brembo crossdrilled ceramic brakes are not what is important and needed... For our transportational needs going forward after this Coronavirus COVID19 thing gets resolved....

Because you know...you got yourself in a pickle... To boot... 'twas SMK that started this nonsense praising German shyteboxes... And the Longhorn Laramie is a huge, heavy, offroading isolation chamber...JUST like the old style luxo barges of yore were...except now they ride taller and got 4 wheel drive. And some got performance chops too...go anywhere performance chops.

Why? Because Mercedes said the AMG is a luxury vehicle? Why is it a luxury vehicle? Price? You already established in your mind that price got NOTHING to do with it... But Ill humour you. Starts at $108 000 F150 Shelby SuperSnake Starts at $95 000 for 400 HP and $102 000 for 770 HP Performance? The Supersnake and Raptor do things that an AMG E Class wont do and vice versa...but all 3 are performance machines. You gonna pick and choose what performance criteria is luxury and what is not? Technology? What automotive tech is available in the Mercedes is also available in the F150. Fit and finish? Quality of the leather? What about towing capacity and what you could haul? Why isnt THAT a luxury? Because when discussing with biased view points...one will always find a way to dismiss another view point when it does not match their fondness and dislike for certain vehicles...

Yeah...you find it hilarious that a pickup truck is a luxury vehicle. I find it hilarious that a taxi cab in Greece is a luxury vehicle States side...

I say base E Class and base GLC...but you yourself dont equate expensive price tags to luxury so an AMG E Class is also not luxury BECAUSE the E Class is utilitarian in some markets outside the US...just like how pickup trucks ARE utilitarian in the US market. In other parts of the world thoughl ike in Russia and in Dubai...if a Russian oligarch or an oil sheik baron decide to export a Kings Ranch F150...its luxury...) (you could try to counter all you want...the sad reality is that Mercedes went down market in the US and THAT is what is causing SMK all this pain) Ford, Dodge and GM went upmarket for their trucks...meeting up at the doorstep of Mercedes' downmarket path... Dont fault Detroit for that mess... Dont make excuses for Mercedes for that mess...

Yup... And you missed the point that Mercedes vehicles that have the SAME EXACT price tags as those high fallutin' pickup trucks..dont equate to luxury vehicles either... And THAT is the point... Example That E Class...is not a luxury vehicle... Therefore... Not a luxury vehicle But wait...there is more You both have to decide what argument you want to stick to... Define what is luxury first...and then come and discuss it with me. You will find that whatever definition you choose, it does not bode well for Mercedes luxury perception vis-a-vis high priced pickup trucks and Mercedes Benz vehicles below the S Class... I repeat... Price to price interior to interior engine choice to engine choice fit and finish to fit and finish tech to tech Mercedes base GLC and base E Class are no more luxury than top trimmed pickup trucks. Or... If you want to play the hypocrite game. Mercedes base GLC and E Class are luxury...but so are the top trimmed pickup trucks. You cant have it both ways.

Non sequitur? Why? Because trucks are now considered to be luxury vehicles rather than status quo sedans? News Flash: Its been an SUV and Truck world ever since OJ was running from the cops at 5 mph waaaay back when Eurodance was just hitting the dance clubs in NYC and Montreal. Because plebeian brands are hitting luxury price tags? Well... luxury brands are hitting plebeian price tags...it goes both ways you know... It may be a Bizarro world in 2020...but it dont change the fact that pickup trucks from mainstream brands are in reality luxury vehicles and luxury brands are producing and selling mainstream level vehicles. Please dont be hypocritical and say a GLC or worse...a G wagon... is a luxury truck JUST because it wears a luxury brand logo on the hood, and dismiss a GMC Sierra Denali or Ford Kings Ranch truck JUST because it dawns a utilitarian and mainstream badge... Because if you say a GLC is luxury and deny a Denali...your thought process is non-sequitur. Your logic does not follow... And the fact that a 2019 E Class is a mainstream taxi car in other parts of the world does you no favours with this non-sequitur rebuttal... And yes...18 wheelers are expensive...but quite luxurious too...if equipped that way. Plus...these modern 18 wheelers got technology that rivals the best of the automotive world. Everything that defines...luxury. Price to price interior to interior engine choice to engine choice fit and finish to fit and finish tech to tech Base E Class/base GLC or top of the line GLA versus high priced Detroit pickup trucks...very much indeed is apples to apples and very much sequitur as it follows a very logical path. One that you or SMK dont wanna admit to...but yeah...

It does not bode well for Mercedes' luxury plans when plebeian branded, work oriented utilitarian pick-up trucks rival transaction prices and sales figures with those of Mercedes so-called luxury vehicles... Maybe because... Anything below the S Class in the Mercedes line-up is not luxury? Or... Is it that Lonhorn Laramies, King Ranches and Denalis ARE luxury? Tough pill to swallow. Which reality do you wanna follow? Any which way you cut it...its no bueno for Mercedes Benz.

Actually...same applies to Mercedes. How many low level GLAs and CLAs and crappy 4 cylinder C Classes does Mercedes roll out and favorable priced lease queen E Classes and GLCs vis a vis the higher priced ones? I bet you...Dodge and Ford and GMC and Chevy sell MORE 50 000 dollar price tagged trucks than Mercedes does in that same 50 000 dollar range. Mercedes has sold 320 000-380 000 units in the US the last 5 years. The GLC and the C Class are the top cars that sell in the US. 60 000 units per year for the C Class and 70 000 for the GLC That totals 130 000 units. About half. 45 000 E classes, 20 000 GLAs, 15 000 CLA. That is another 70 000 units 200 000 units so far. Add another 50 000 GLEs and another 15 000 S Classes and we are at 265 000. The rest comprises of 40 000 vans, 7 000 G Class SUVs, 4 000 GTs, 1 500 SLs, 1 500 SLCs and we are at the 315 000 units level https://www.daimler.com/investors/reports-news/financial-news/20200104-mbusa-sales-dec.html Numbers are good enough... 60 000 C Classes... starts at 42 000 70 000 GLCs starts at 52 000 I doubt that the GLC goes above 60 000 dollars. Lease queen. I doubt the C Class goes above 45 000 dollars. Lease queen also. That makes an avg trans price of 52 000... for 130 00 units GLE starts at 55 000 E Class starts at 54 000 avg trans price Id say 60 000 dollars. for another 100 000 cars. We bump up that avg trans price $55 000 for 230 000 units. CLA and GLA Id say avg trans prices at 45 000. It wont move the needle as that only makes up for 35 000 units. Avg trans prices for M-B in the US according to MY logic is 55 000 for a measly 260 000 - 280 000 units... https://www.coxautoinc.com/market-insights/average-new-vehicle-transaction-prices-up-3-5-year-over-year-in-january/ That link says that M-B ATP is at 58 000-59 000 dollars. Im gonna say that my analysis is accurate because in my analysis I am not including 100 000 dollar S Class sales...even at only 15 000 units... Ford sells 900 000 F150s and its variants Dodge sells close too 700 000 Rams and its variants. Maybe more now... GM sells 600 000 Chevy Silverados and another 250 000 Sierras. https://gmauthority.com/blog/2018/10/the-average-pickup-truck-price-is-closing-in-on-50000/ In 2018...GM said that the ATP on its trucks in 2018 is closing in on 50 000 dollars... The Silverado STARTS at 29 000... GM sells 850 000 trucks... Without me doing any more math...Im dizzy.... Im going to safely say that yes...Ford, GM, Dodge sell MORE 50 000 dollar trucks than Mercedes does 50 000 dollar vehicles...as I think GM, Ford and Dodge OBLITERATES the 280 000 unit mark with expensive as phoque Longhorns, King Ranches and Silverado HD/Denalis...

Guess at what price the GLA starts at? Its HIGHER than the base pick-up trucks. But...you just shot yourself in the foot... E Class is 54 000...Longhorn is 45 000... Longhorn Laramie is nicer inside than a base E Class... Therefore any vehicle from Mercedes BELOW an S Class is NOT Luxury... And THAT is according to YOUR argument and point of view.