oldshurst442

econ 101 I suggest Balthy, you go back to school!!! As far as the last you you asked me... Balthy.... .Im just commenting on this thread.....I am NOT the source...this thread is suggesting the outcome you so wanna deny. I added the ATS and the CTS as that is what I thought would actually get the axe. I doubted the CT6 would get axed, as did you. I used several dead GM models, models that sold MORE than the ATS and CTS and they got canceled as comparisons... The Camaro got 40 000 sales in 2002...its last year. From 1996 to 2002, it hit 55 000 and 60 000 twice and regurarly got 40 000. It even had 100 000 plus sales at its 4rth gen intro. Not to mention Firebird sales. Which was a fraction of Camaro sales... So....

Without sales....there are NO profits... You need the sales, to make the profits.... Keeping the lights on is NOT enough...profits need to be worth while for the lights to remain on. Working for a little something at the end of the day may not be worth while to continue to keep the lights on... That part right there: ...we are saying the same thing....hence your Olds and Pontiac sales figures... The thing YOU have backwards is that it takes sales to actually make a profit. One could minimize all expenses and costs...it takes sales to produce a profit. It takes mucho sales to produce a worth while profit. Depending at what price point you are selling your product. High price usually goes with high desirability in order to not sell as much as your neighbor. But you gotta convince the people that are gonna buy your high priced object that your product shall be a desirable product. The ATS and CTS are CLEARLY NOT as desirable as their neighbors products... Pontiac and Oldsmobile got their clocks cleaned out by their competition. Its safe to say that while there are sales....not enough sales to produce a worth while profit exists. Increase ATS and CTS sales...increase profits to make it worth while. One could further cut ATS and CTS costs to possibly increase profits that way and try price them HIGHER than what they sell for now...but I doubt the desired SALES effect will be achieved...I think it further a downward spiral of sales.... Profits are incidental...NOT the other way around.

HA! Sales dont matter???!!! Tell that to: Plymouth Mercury Pontiac Oldsmobile AMC Duesenberg Auburn Cord Checker Hudson Should we include Saturn? GM as a whole almost did not make it Chrsyco as whole is STILL on the brink... Because as we all know...sales is just numbers that mean nothing...sure the ATS and the CTS have buyers... And sure Pontiac also had buyers and Oldsmobile too had buyers and so did Duesenberg and Hudson... Blockbuster also had customers and Sears STILL has some customers...but yeah, Im falling into the 'sales trap' because sales are just numbers and as long as there are customers to keep the lights on.... Yeah....Im falling into the "sales trap"... I dont know why the ATS and the CTS arent selling either...the term confusion just angers some of us... But yeah....1000 units per month for the ATS and 800-900 units for the CTS should be enough to keep the lights on at GM... That is why GM did NOT axe the Firebird and Camaro. Nor the STS. Nor the Fiero. Nor the Allante. Nor the LeSabre. Nor the Park Ave. Nor the Fleetwood. Nor the Toronado. Nor the Caprice. Nor the Bel Air. Nor the Riviera.... Because sales figures are just numbers and dont mean a damned thing...because there are customers that dont care what sales each model and brand do month to month....as long as the lights are still open for business... Plymouth Mercury Pontiac Oldsmobile AMC Duesenberg Auburn Cord Checker Hudson Id like to buy a brand new 2018 Oldsmobile Alero...because as you know...I dont care about sales figures and I buy what nobody else buys and I want my brand new 2018 Olds Intrigue NOW!!! Not a Buick or a Chevy. An Olds Intrigue new for 2018 ..... Because as we all know...sales dont mean a damned thing!!!

Did you like the Chevy Caprice and Montecarlos of those years? Hint: They get to be a tad boxy themselves... Dont you like classic 1950s and 1960s American iron? Hint: The Tri-5 Chevys are called shoe boxes as a nickname for a reason... PS: Arent you always saying that 4 door coupes are boring? What gives? Dont beat around the bush.... Say you hate Japanese cars and be done with it!!!

The average Joe is confused....put blinders on. I dont care. But Ill show you how Audi and BMW wipe the floor with Cadillac...confusion or not...it dont matter. Cadillac sedan sales are in the dumpster. Is it confusion? It dont matter. You could use semantics to try to dismiss Cadillac sales mediocrity... The ATS MAIN competition http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/bmw/bmw-3-series-4-series/ BMW 3-series / 4-series 2014 BMW 3-series / 4-series 2015 BMW 3-series / 4-series 2016 BMW 3-series / 4-series 2017 January 6.494 7.348 5.119 5.976 February 7.791 8.748 7.278 7.220 March 10.120 14.835 10.928 9.521 April 9.794 10.374 7.907 7.376 May 10.915 12.868 11.017 8.348 June 11.543 13.516 10.003 9.617 July 12.497 10.919 8.985 August 12.477 13.103 8.170 September 12.814 11.871 9.721 October 13.621 14.307 8.068 November 14.702 11.857 8.651 December 19.464 10.863 10.374 BMW 3-series / 4-series 2016 106.221 2015 140.609 2014 142.232 2013 119.521 2012 99.602 2011 94.371 2010 100.910 2009 90.960 2008 112.464 2007 142.490 2006 120.180 2005 106.950 2004 106.549 2003 111.944 2002 115.428 2001 103.227 2000 89.681 1999 77.138 1998 57.520 1997 52.472 1996 50.248 1995 50.146 1994 46.287 1993 45.594 1992 38.040 1991 29.002 1990 22.825 1989 21.738 1988 34.914 1987 58.897 1986 61.822 1985 53.927 1984 30.868 1983 33.602 1982 35.190 1981 28.927 1980 25.771 http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/audi/audi-a4/ Audi A4 / S4 2014 Audi A4 / S4 2015 Audi A4 / S4 2016 Audi A4 / S4 2017 January 2.194 1.563 1.325 1.737 February 2.216 1.743 1.827 2.377 March 3.334 2.266 3.226 3.876 April 3.167 2.327 2.983 3.246 May 3.123 2.785 2.756 3.011 June 3.365 2.863 2.802 3.022 July 2.717 2.433 2.612 August 3.233 2.743 2.965 September 2.480 2.221 3.175 October 2.268 2.896 3.864 November 2.699 2.418 3.143 December 3.197 3.426 4.009 Audi A4 / S4 2016 34.687 2015 29.013 2014 33.993 2013 36.744 2012 35.415 2011 35.234 2010 34.672 2009 37.070 2008 43.343 2007 45.411 2006 49.862 2005 48.922 2004 47.168 2003 51.043 2002 44.319 2001 35.739 2000 34.460 1999 32.137 1998 26.635 1997 20.871 1996 15.288 1995 0 Im not even gonna try to prove how crappy the CTS sales are compared to the Audi A6 and the BMW 5 Series....you know...the CTS' MAIN competition. Arent you a main believer of who cares what is happening OUTSIDE the US? Well...maybe its the semantics argument that you care about mostly... What is bugging you the most is the confusion argument... Hey... You may be right I may be crazy But it just may be a lunatic you're looking for Turn out the light Don't try to save me You may be wrong for all I know Im probably right!!!

Me too. But there was one model Accord coupe that I did like! 3rd generation 1987-1989 and the 1986-1991 Prelude But this is the last you will ever see me admit to that!!!

Well...yes! What Cadillac is doing here! And what is that? http://carsalesbase.com/us-car-sales-data/cadillac/ The ATS is in free fall... Cadillac ATS 2016 21.505 2015 26.873 2014 29.890 2013 38.319 2012 7.008 Month to month in 2017 does not seem promising Cadillac ATS 2014 Cadillac ATS 2015 Cadillac ATS 2016 Cadillac ATS 2017 January 1.909 1.757 1.067 974 February 2.427 2.028 1.591 1.005 March 2.982 2.039 1.859 1.367 April 2.737 2.119 1.737 1.405 May 2.497 2.353 1.630 1.273 June 2.358 2.211 1.880 1.185 July 2.582 1.588 2.119 August 2.804 2.449 2.477 September 2.239 2.295 1.770 October 2.608 2.528 1.593 November 2.282 2.055 1.490 December 2.465 3.451 2.292 The CTS also in decline...a joke is more like it!!! Cadillac CTS 2016 15.911 2015 19.485 2014 31.115 2013 32.343 2012 46.979 2011 55.042 2010 45.656 2009 38.817 2008 58.774 2007 57.029 2006 54.846 2005 61.512 2004 57.211 2003 49.392 2002 37.976 In 2017...its presence is ghost like.... Cadillac CTS 2014 Cadillac CTS 2015 Cadillac CTS 2016 Cadillac CTS 2017 January 2.232 1.698 1.013 691 February 2.509 1.438 1.461 913 March 2.918 1.500 1.499 882 April 3.270 1.726 1.335 873 May 2.905 1.792 1.082 854 June 2.174 1.535 1.516 846 July 2.039 1.515 1.313 August 2.592 1.730 1.426 September 2.282 1.319 1.503 October 3.096 1.567 1.024 November 2.446 1.224 1.042 December 2.652 2.441 1.697 The CT6...for a brand new model is pathetic... Cadillac CT6 2016 Cadillac CT6 2017 January 0 634 February 0 802 March 35 968 April 285 978 May 697 1.001 June 962 1.014 July 827 August 1.242 September 1.343 October 1.316 November 1.169 December 1.293 But at least its sales are on the up.... So....please dont tell me the marketing in the US is NOT confusing.... Sure....but like I said....Cadillac is heading to be EXACTLY just that in the USA....a crossover seller. You better believe it needs an Enclave clone in the USA. Yes....just like the SRX before it...the XT5 is doing awesome. And THAT is why Cadillac needs an Enclave lone as its sedans are non-existent States side... My link suggests otherwise.... Yes....but that all changed in the early 1990s when they realized what was up with the Germans with the FWD STS Northstar . Its just that Cadillac half assed that strategy. It continued to half-ass that strategy with the Cadillac that was suppose to Zig and Zag with the Opel Omega based Catera thing. 1st generation and 2nd generation CTS was a good direction but 3rd gen RWD STS was a strategy that was half-assed again... 1st generation ATS and 3rd generation CTS along with the name change with the CT6 just confused the shyte out of potential buyers... I do too,, buddy! I do too! But I am NOT afraid to call a spade a spade. Some of us are though!!!

Yeah...that is why Cadillac sedans sales are through the roof... What little sales gains they have...are of the SUV variety....and in China... So yeah...do both...for China.... In the USA....well...a tad more FOCUSED strategy is in order.... Its fine if we both dont agree on this.... But....take a look at US sales...on this path...Cadillac will just be a crossover seller... PS: Please dont tell me with a straight face that what Cadillac is doing is anything but confusing... If it wasnt confusing...then month by month sales of ALL its sedans would NOT be down in the USA... If it wasnt confusing....then the CT6 would have had SUBSTANTIAL sales gains...like the ΧT5... PSS: Cadillac is selling a ton of vehicles in...CHINA. For the first time in history....Cadillac sells more outside its home base. I think we are letting that bit of good news clout our judgement about what really is going on in the USA...

Quite honestly, the XTS should have died 3 years ago. So that is not a big loss. Its a NECESSITY actually to finally break free of a certain era that Cadillac itself is struggling with itself to shed. Yes. No. Either go full on performance luxury or go full on quiet luxury. DO NOT do both. Its confusing for the would be customer. The CT6 is in the middle of this mess. Clowns to the left of it (CTS), jokers to the right (XTS)...here it is stuck in the middle with you! The CTS should have been STS which should have been the CT6. Or should the XTS be reincarnated as the CT6? Is the CT6 a quiet luxury car like the ΧΤS or is the CT6 a performance luxury car like the CTS? Is the CTS the CT6? The so called name sounds the same... Is the CT8 Omega based? Is it still on? Is the CT5 Alpha based? Its not as if the CTS is setting world records for sales either!!! The ATS morphing into the CT3....and Cadillac wants to go smaller???!! Crossovers are selling....yeah....I see several Cadillac sedans getting the axe here not only the CT6 and the XTS.... But in all honesty, I think the CT5 will never make off the ground. I think the CT6 will get better marketing and therefore stay. After all, a TTV8 is scheduled for it . The Escala will be the CT8. The CT3 will never get off the ground either methinks. The CT3 and the CT5 will get axed in favour of CUVs. The XT5 is here already and doing well. The XTS V powertrain should have made it unto the Lacrosse to distance itself away from the Impala AND the Regal because in 2018, even the Regal is too close to the Lacrosse. The Impala never really took off like it should have. The 2nd generation Equinox should have been a bloody clue that big sedans were dead men walking as the Equinox exploded in sales year after year and its highest being 5 years AFTER its introduction almost doubling its first year sales while the Impala had a fraction of those sales... Ditto for the Lamba SUVs. Those just continued on selling and those were as old as the 1st generation Theta SUVs. The Malibu grew bigger on the inside to almost Impala levels of interior space, designed to look like the Impala all for a cheaper price than the Impala. All that is sealing the Impala's fate. Ditto for the Lacrosse because all that applies to the Lacrosse. The Lacrosse also has its own Malibu scenario in the Regal. Not too mention that the Impala and the Lacrosse are cannibalizing each other with the little sales that are left for each other. The Volt.... I dont think it will get the axe. At the very least, the Volt's tech will find its way into a SUV type body. The name Volt does not necessarily mean it has to go away either.... The Chevy Trax takes care of the Sonic. No big loss there! If cheap entry level car is needed. The Trax could be decontented to be sold on the cheap. It has the the Buick version selling like hot cakes to balance out the profit margins. Heck, give a version to Cadillac (obviously NOT as a badge engineered model!) to sell at a higher still price and voila!

Ill answer...The Accord Coupe crowd has nothing to do with the Camaro and Mustang crowd. Even the Challenger crowd. Even if 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder pony cars are marketed to these folk. These folk bought an Accord coupe when the Mustang and Camaro were on sale and they skipped on the chance to own an American pony car and if the allure of American pony car did not attract them then, then nothing will attract them to an American pony car even when the Accord coupe will no longer be available to them... After the Accord coupe will no longer be available for sale and the new generation of coupe buyersof any coupe wanna buy a coupe, well...if 50-55 years of American pony car history wont be enough to entice them to buy an American pony car, then no amount of fake marketing will entice these guys... So...that also applies to current Accord Coupe buyers... When they bought their Accord Coupe, they nixed at a chance to be part of that 50-55 years of American Pony car heritage...no amount of fake marketing will turn that around... Remember...The American Pony Car has 50-55 years behind it...all those Muscle car wars and myths and legends...these folk decided to buy an Accord Coupe instead... This coming from a guy that bought a 1999 Oldsmobile Alero Coupe... This coming from a guy that has a Trans Am Phoenix as his Avatar... Coming from a guy that in 1999, could have bought a 1999 Trans Am instaed of an Alero Coupe...or the very least, a Firebird... So...

What is this fetish some of you folk continue to talk about people forgetting to plug in their cars???!!! We are plugging in so much shyte IN 2017...more than anytime in history...more than in 1987 and more than in 1997 for that matter... smart phones, lap tops, tablets, DRONES, Spheros and BB8s, Nintendo Wii and Wii U game controllers...(for people who bought aftermarket chargers because were fed up of feeding the controllers batteries every 2 days...) Hell...even grass trimmers and lawn mowers..., cordless drills, you name it... In 1987, the only thing we plugged in to charge was a cordless phoquing land line phone... Its part of today's everyday life things to do... NO! PEOPLE WONT FORGET TO PLUG IN THEIR CARS TO CHARGE!!!! Get off that mind set!!!

Id feel funny if I bought the hugely expensive AMG C Class version and some dorky middle management dude parked next to me at the mall with the 2.0T and the soccer mom and her daughter with her leased GLC walking back to her CUV with her Michael Korrs bag in hand would say to us "How cute! You both drive the same car!" As you know, and say....M-B sells "luxury" and not performance with the C Class so the soccer mom wont know the difference between the AMG and the 2.0T Even the middle management dude wont know the diff.... Ill gladly take the Buick Regal GS with the unrefined decade old V6 thank-you very much. With the difference in price left over, Id rather buy meself a real muscle car. A Dodge Challenger V8 of some sort with the decade old Mercedes chassis of all ironies... That way, I wont look like a poseur, nor would I think I was had by M-B! Sorry SMK, you fail to convince that a C Class is some sort of luxury vehicle. Those sales that the C Class gets just affirms the stance that a good lease makes it perfect for mainstream mediocrity for middle management types that want so much to be in the big leagues like. Ill give you this much....the 3 pointed star still has some punch to it. Only time will tell if it will continue to be that way....

Problem is....BMW and M-B chasing BMW in the 1990s is EΧΑCTLY how they defined luxury for the 1990s and beyond: PERFORMANCE I dont do well with others with double talk.... I like you SMK...but I dont like double talk and revisionist history. Please refrain from both.

True. But a C300 @ 40K also comes with a turbo 2.0 liter 4 cylinder...with 240 horses.....same as a Fusion 2.0 ecoboost or Malibu 2.0T at much much lower price points... So....by your logic and way of thinking, and how M-B sells its cars really...a C300 really is a mainstream offering....EXACTLY how its predecessor was in Europe... but with a head exploding price tag!!! So....what are we discussing here? Round and round we go but nowhere relevant we end up!!!

Old Regal did not sell because 1. rear room was tight. 2. Verano was introduced with more or less equal rear room space for less money. 3. lack of marketing What is different this time around? 1. rear room is abundant 2. Verano no longer available 3. Its clear as daylight that Buick wants to go upscale. 4. Buick has no problem selling premium priced vehicles. The Lacrosse, Enclave and Envision are successes. Verano and Encore sold quite well when compared to their Chevy counterparts and the Encore compared to its main competition and the Verano compared to the Acura ILX...its main competitor... 5. Speaking of Acura...the Regal GS is almost a clone of the Acura TL SH-AWD and probably its main competitor in 2017 the TLX SH-AWD.... If Acura is premium so is Buick. The only problem I see is the the Regal might do to the Lacrosse what the Verano did to the old Regal and what Acura did...was to eliminate 2 models and make one...hence TLX... Big sedans dont sell so the Lacrosse will definitely take a hit... So....can we at least stop the non-sense posting and start posting LOGICAL THOUGHTS, PLEASE?! P.S. The M-B CLA's interior really lacks premium grade quality let alone full on luxury. Buick's interiors may not be luxury, but they sure are straight up premium in ANY MODEL AT ANY PRICE POINT! Buick is spot on in the premium luxury status arena since the bankruptcy. Phoque off if you say otherwise!!!

Ill do another set. If I was a rich dude in the 1970s, these would be my rides. (Designs that are purely from the 1970s and not styles that originated in the 1960s...) 5 from GM (This Cadillac is an exemption because it did debut in 1968 or 1969...) From MOPAR and FoMoCo 1970 300 Hurst 1971 'Cuda 440 6 PACK 1970 Lincoln Mark III 1970 Torino 429 SCJ Mercury Marauder X-100 429

I mentioned 2012 Acura TL SH-AWD And NOBODY even acknowledged that! Continue talking about Camrys and old Regals and Ford Fusion Sports ....but ya'll be missin' the fact that this here Regal GS is a near 100% clone of a 2009-2014 Acura TL SH-AWD. Minus the hatch opening, a 5-10 HP and torques more, 9 speed auto instead of a 6 speed auto, and quite possibly a tad longer...but its description is spot on for the TL SH-AWD....maybe even the TLX SH-AWD...

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/future-cars/a10328974/2018-buick-regal-gs/ Description reads very close to what I drive currently...2012 Acura TL SH-AWD. Id say the Regal GS is just an Acura TL SH-AWD... Not a bad thing...and maybe, just maybe, if a Tesla Model 3 does not pan out for a possible replacement for my 2012 Acura TL SH-AWD in the next 3-4-5 years, maybe this Buick will...

From 1950 Which was based off of this during the War. It was a German Wehrmacht staff car. Which similarly how Jeep went civilian after the War begat this and other variants like the commercial wagon above. Mercedes in Europe, has a loooong history of catering to the masses with all kinds of commercial and blue collar vehicles... What I find stupid with Mercedes is that all those wonderful tough and rugged blue collar stuff and all the war mongering vehicles...they were all engineered by GERMAN folk working for Mercedes and Benz and Daimler... This is an insult to the heritage of the 3 pointed star!!! OH....George Dubbya might have an issue with this shyte being called the 1st true premium pick-up truck And...it was engineered by Henry Ford's people sold by Henry's offspring... Yes....the same Henry Ford that designed this off roader If Henry slapped on some leather on this like how the Duesenbergs did with their cars and the Model T would have that title waaaaaay back when...but Henry wanted to sell to the masses...

Yes.

Ive yet to see one in the wild. Saw it in the autoshow last winter. I wasnt blown away with it looking at it indoors. Although I did not find it awe inspiring indoors, I did find it to be good looking. A million times better looking than the 7 Series Bimmer (and 5 Series for that matter) but not quite as imposing (in a good way) as the M-B S Class. Although the S Class is not that good looking either. But it is imposing in a positive way it gets a pass from me. The E Class is just as ugly as the 5 and 7 Series Bimmer. The E Class lacks the charisma big brother S Class has. (According to my eyes) The Lincoln Continental also failed to impress me...but it was indoors. I havent seen this one out in the wild either. But, I can say that had the Continental been a tad longer to accentuate long sleek Continentals of yore while keeping that same style, it be hella sexier. The way it is now, it just kinda looks a tad frumpy to me. Back to the CT6...I must say, it does appear to accentuate a long sleek design. The only thing Id change would be in the rear. Id accentuate those blade LED lights back there STATING ITS A CADILLAC GOD DAMMIT!!!

Not my style these things are. I HATE THEM!!! With such burning hatred you cant even begin to understand But...who am I to tell you otherwise that SUVs are gas guzzling pieces of ? If it works for you...more power to you.

392 Scat Pack or Hellcat 1973 Pontiac Trans An 455SD (this is a 1980 model...dont it look pretty?) Cadillac CTS-V (no CT6 TTV8 yet so this one steps up to the plate!) 1970 Olds 442 W-30 The next 5 2017 Mustang GT350 (without that ridiculous albeit functional rear spoiler...and because I dont track my cars...it aint needed anyway 2007 Mercedes Benz E63 AMG with the naturally aspirated 6.2 liter motor. 2017 BMW M6 GC 1969 Plymouth Road Runner or GTX (440 6 pack or Hemi) Im in the mood for another GM A-Body. This time a Buick. 1970 GSX or the less flashy Stage1...

I also question if there will be a next generation Charger or 300 or even Challenger. I question if Dodge or Chrysler will make it past 2021...never mind the trio of LX cars...

I only believe legit news sources on stuff like this. Internet chit chat stuff...not so much. Im sure our very own William or Drew will sniff it out and report it to us soon enough if this is an issue for FCA and their Pacifica. Like you said, without the drama, this is what I should have stated from the get-go: Im sure our very own William or Drew will sniff it out and report it to us soon enough if this is an issue for FCA and their Pacifica.