oldshurst442

nobody's cancelin' nothin', man. We have heard many....many times that people may gonna cancel every single time there is some sort of update on the Model 3, yet the sky is still where it is... From the Road and Track link http://www.motortrend.com/news/first-tesla-model-3-completed-friday/ We've already discussed to death the "prices will start at around $35,000 before government incentives." argument. Multiple sources do say buyers will probably opt for options raising the price tag... In other words, people EXPECT to PAY MORE! So much so that Musk was afraid this would cut into Model S sales...but it seems that Tesla sold a tad more cars than expected so there is no sky is falling scenario in this either! Again, from the link Tesla really does resemble Apple inc. Since the 1980s, many detractors call Apple's demise time and time again... The only time I fear for Tesla...is when that new Fisker EV comes to play! And Fisker did do some work on the Tesla Model S before he skedaddled out of there! Other than that....I dont fear the Reaper!

I was looking to post a specific GIF in another thread regarding good 'ole Robert DeNiro in one of his Mafia gigs when I came across this GIF...I think this GIF is appropriate here and how Ray Liotta smirks at the end just captivates this topic quite well I find!

I thought about doing an E30 M3 myself, but I wanted a newer 4 cylinder car and since I already had an older classic(if you will) in the Acura Integra and (quite honestly) I did not feel like being a hypocrite in including a car that I have soooooooo been down on for about 20 years (because the Lord knows how I have openly bashed this particular vintage Bimmer in real life and at Motor Trend Forums) so I decided to be a hypocrite on the Cadillac ATS. It has ONLY been 2-3-4 years that I bash the ATS versus 20 years for the Bimmer and quite honestly, I have only bashed it in Cheers for Gears... so....there ya go!

Ill just defend the Chally's honour. I must say, there is a lot of sour grapes and falsehoods in this thread regarding the Challenger. One HUUUUGE falsehood is that the the Challenger is as claustrophobic as a Mustang and a bunker like a Camaro where you cant see out of it!!! This is bullshyte of course!!! The sour grape approach is that some are afraid to admit that the Challenger actually is a well demeanored vehicle that CAN handle the twisties just fine with all that horsepower under the hood. Question is....should the Challenger BE a fully capable twisty sports car? THE ANSWER IS A PHOQUING RESOUNDING NO!!!! IT IS A PURE PHOQUING MUSCLE CAR IN THE PUREST PHOQUING SENSE. I for one DONT want this pony car to become more in line with a Mustang or Camaro and become more European. Its just phoquing fine just the way it phoquing is! And the way it sells in the market place, which is not far behind the other two, plenty of people agree with me! Especially considering how archaic the platform is and how new and state of the art the other two are! I agree with @Frisky Dingo AWD would really blow the universe apart!

Im iffy on the visuals of the widebody. Sometimes I like the look of it, sometimes I dont. I dont like it most of the time because in pictures, the fender flares looked tacked on, like a bad home garage hot rodding project gone to hell! Without the rivet holes on the factory car of course! Id prefer something like this instead

@Cubical-aka-Moltar This is why I dont like small cars...and Im only 5'6"! But I also chose this vid because of your choice. And I also love Jerry and Norm. 3 for 1 deal!

1. 2018 Ford Mustang 2.3 liter 4 cylinder Ecoboost with a rumored 350 HP and 350 ft.lbs torque and line lock standard. 2. 1999 Acura Integra Type R (or GS-R) Id try and find an unmolested one. I hated these when they first came out. My cousin had one (GS-R 1999 and manual of course) and I gagged every time I saw it...which was daily. I drove it several times and in hindsight...over time...Ive come to realize I actually LOVE this...you know... revving that engine...and to be honest, I think its one of those rare MANUAL TRANSMISSION cars I enjoyed...because as you know...I also hate manuals... 3. I always seem to choose the Ford Fusion here, but the Malibu has intrigued me and it is newer and fresher...Ill go with the Malibu 2..0T Premier this time around! 4. Im soooooo in love with this car. She is gorgeous. I cant afford the other sexy redheaded Italians, so this one shall do! 5. Cadillac ATS 2.0T Yes I know....I have been severe on this car...well, I tried all kinds of google searches on what new 4 cylinder cars Id enjoy and the answer is none.... The Golf R is closest in what Id like. But VW aint for me. TOO Germanic. The new Civic Type R...TOO fast and the furious boy racer...The 1999 Integra is the real deal so Im sticking with that. There is no 4 ylinder Audi that Id consider that I wouldnt get the VW version way before and I think I addressed my reasoning for no to VW... No BMW other than the M2 and the M6 GC...and those arent 4 cylinder cars! Cadillac ATS 2.0T it shall be!

And with this bankruptcy my guess is you will never hear this mess again... What a second....Ive heard this before... Oh yeah!

I got nothin' for our discussion regarding vehicle classification. My best swing at the ball was already discussed which I think is good enough to explain why the switch. Your thought process is logical enough.... I just simply dont care enough to make a distinction. I remember very well how large and wide cars were back in the day and because we are simply not offered those types of cars anymore coupled with the fact that where I live in the Province of Quebec and Quebec is the compact car capital of North America and has been since the late 1980s...it really does not make any difference to me how cars are classified. I do laugh though when I do hear some "enthusiast" car magazines call the Honda Accord as a fullsized car....for those very same reasons you mention... I also laugh to see how cars have grown in size and especially weight (thanx in part to all the safety stuff going on, but also due to the unnecessary gadgets that we have such as TV screens...) and I just as ask myself.....why oh why did we have to downsize our cars? To have back-up cameras and beep beep noises when another car approaches our blind spot? Id gladly take the gluttonous amounts of steel and chrome over the gluttonous amounts of unnecessary electronic doo-dads! So yeah! A part of me thinks the way you do, but in reality, I just reminisce how huge cars were back in the day and...that is it.

I meant it as "I think the Escalade ESV may be an inch or so shorter than the 1974 Deville, but I aint sure and if the Escalade ESV happens to be a tad longer then I am not that surprised either" Your point of view is logical! Give me 24 hours so I could think of a logical counter argument.

Its all good. In the future, if you want to poke at me, you could. You Balthy, you always back up your views with almost pin point accuracy most of the time. You feel like setting me straight...go right ahead I say. I learn new lessons this way! The best I could do with that is BECAUSE of downsizing and BECAUSE of computer aided designs such as Chryco's Cab Forward design (I know this cab forward design PREDATED CAD and Chrysler inc) alonf with FWD revolution that new criteria was needed. Like your El Camino example and the 1974 Deville example.... Cars like the 1974 Deville do not exist anymore. The longest Escalade is nowhere near as wide as any pre-1977 downsized American car. And I dont think the Escalade is as long also... A 1976 El Camino...its a long car....but what good does that do if its classified as a fullsized car (or intermiadiate as per 1970s rules) when it probably has the same amount of interior space as a 2017 Chevy Cruze? Dont forget the Cruze is not only THE NORM of today's 2017 reality, but the Cruze is also a compact car. (Per 1970s rules...is a Cruze a subcompact?) OK....how many cars in 2017 are as large and wide as a 1974 Impala? That definition of large class does not exist anymore!!! Hell...how many cars are as large and wide as the downsized 1977 Impala? Not even the mighty S-Class from Mercedes Benz Im willing to bet!!! So yeah...I think that going to this new way of classing cars may have its own flaws, I believe it has compensated well enough for the change of the engineering realities and the size of cars and their interior space in 2017 better than had we stayed with the status quo that started to change in the mid-1970s... Coincidentally, computers started to help engineers design their cars shortly after the down-sizing... PS: downsizing was a political and social must in the mid-1970s... Much like what we are facing today with almost the same reasons and those reasons are OIL and the MIDDLE EAST!!! What does that have to do with car classification? Everything is intertwined...but we shouldnt be afraid to get away from the status quo....evolution is a good thing...

Technically it aint an AUTHENTIC Chevelle/Cutlass/Lemans/Skylark (because I just might re-skin it as a Buick GS as it might be easier to do than Cutlass because I think Dynacorn stopped selling the skeleton shell and just sells the skinned Body Shell Chevelle only and the Skylark looks more like a Chevelle) because its just a Dynacorn stamped body shell...Its not as if I will be gutting a real classic...

1. Id replicate this for my winter car. And what is that exactly? It is 2015 SEMA's AWD 450HP 5.7liter HEMI Challenger. Im not sure about the widebody kit if I want it or not, but Id start off with a 2017 Challenger T/A with the ram air hood and the 5.7 HEMI. Id retune it to at least hit 400-425HP...no need to go crazy, then Id take a wrecked 2015 or older Chrysler 300C AWD and rip that AWD hardware apart and sew it on my Challenger making my own AWD HEMI V8 Challenger. 2. Then Id take a 2017 Chrysler 300C Platinum Then Id buy this engine And I replicate this but as a Chrysler 300... 3. Id buy a Tesla Model S for a Daily Driver Separate the body shell from its platform Then use the chassis with the suspension and battery pack to act like the ladder frame of my GM A-Body Muscle car where Id replace the Model S body shell for this Dynacorn body shell! and then try to re-skin it as an Oldsmobile Cutlass rather than a Chevelle, if possible, if not a Chevelle it shall be. Id have to cut and fit the Model S chassis a tad, only 4 inches length wise and Id have to find 1 inch wide wise, but its very doable... 4. I have one 5.7 liter Hemi V8 engine to work with from the 300 Hellcat I did when I took that engine out to swap it with the Hellcat engine... So Id visit the FCA Dealership once more and Id buy a Fiat 124 Spyder... There are some Miata V8 swaps already made...but with me....Id make my own Shelby Cobra/Viper (sans V10) with the Fiat 124 and a 5.7 liter Hemi with 375 HP/410 ft.lbs torque... Thanx Frisky for the LC500 idea. OK...Id buy the LC500 Then Id buy a LFA and remove all that is that glorious V10....transmissions, engines, computers and wiring harnesses and electronic dash gauges and swap them into the LC 500

The Mini Cooper S is a cool enthusiast's car. It handles extremely well. Its fun to drive. Its fun to look at! It puts a smile on your face whether you are behind the wheel or just a pedestrian looking at it! Its got a loyal following! Its a CULT classic original AND modern retro. The VW Bug too! I wouldnt ever dare put these two cars down! Well....the original VW KdF Wagen is a different story...but even then...it was built for the good people of Germany in mind....not a bad thing!

Deep down inside, I feel this way too! It may seem Im all over the place with Cadillac, but its because Im frustrated with the Euro-Centric snubs and the misdirections and miscalculations that Cadillac has taken because of the Euro-Centric snubs. Its like when your own child gets Cs & Bs but you know he/she could get As but for whatever reason does not!

Does this quote sound familiar? LOL! I think both of us are too old for this car as well!!! LOL

It is not a semantic discussion. Find me the interior volume of a 1974 Chevrolet Caprice or even the downsized 1979 Caprice and then compare and contrast that with a FWD "fullsized" Honda Accord or Toyota Camry or Chevrolet Malibu of 2016 and considering how long and large the 1970s car was with those modern family haulers and then come and talk to me.... The trunk volume space need not apply. (And I realize the 1974 Impala, 3 grown adults fit COMFORTABLY in front or 1 adult and 3 kids...because so wide....but like I said....in contrast....the 2016 cars are way way way way smaller) INTERIOR SPACE took PRECEDENT!!! Ignore that fact if you want to! And no...it aint always about tin foil conspiracy theories that the "guvment" is out to get us, fool us, steal from us!!! I understand this hatred for guvment stems from the birth of the United Stated of America, but man, let us ease up on the hatred!

Plus, with the advent of FWD and computer aided car design that helped car manufacturers put an emphasis on interior volume and space (Chrysler's Cab Forward engineering in the 1990s for example...and yes I realize this engineering design element existed before CAD and before 1992) forced the various levels of 'guvment' to re-write the rules...

I agree. But this is about Cadillac... And we are a looooong way from these Standards of the World Dewar winning 1910s Cadillac 1930s 1950s 1960s 1970s when these Cadillacs are concerned Not Dewar award winning 1980s 1990s Deville Deville Even the damned mags were badge engineered!!! DTS XTS Yup....dark days for Cadillac!!! By the time you get to the end...please go back to the top of this post to remind yourself what the Glory Days were all about!!!

I LOVE THE CLS MYSELF!!! Every CLS ever made. I like 4 door coupes in general. Like you though, I would never buy a used luxury car and I would never spend 100 000 had earned dollars on a car. Only on a classic as a retirement gift to myself!

Ill answer this as well! Nope. The CLA is not a car I EVER aspire to own. Not even the AMG. Id rather the Fusion Sport and the Malibu Premier. Yes over the AMG version also! Nope. The CLA does NOT make me aspire to own any other Mercedes car. In fact, it makes me question my aspirations to own a higher price tag M-B...quite the opposite effect of what M-B CEOs want of me. I do like the S-Class and if I was a high profile businessman in fear of getting kidnapped, Id get me a fortified, bomb proof S-Class...but then again, Cadillac does not offer a car in this class and THAT is why Id go for the S-Class.... I did say car....I am not a SUV guy so the Escalade is out unfortunately...Id take President Obama's now Trump's Beast though in a heartbeat...and yes its a truck underneath....it looks like a car though! About the ATS....nope...I dont aspire to own that either! I made a thread about it! The ATS still does not make me feel like singing this song out loud! The CT6 kinda does...and the CTS V! Not the ATS! And like the CLA, the ATS....a Fusion Sport and Malibu Premier or Impala is what Id buy over the small ''entry level" shytes!

PS: The XΤS DOES represent the dark days... Its the DIRECT replacement of the Deville which became the DTS whose DIRECT SUCCESSOR is the XTS whose PRIMARY customer base is those Fleetwood and Deville customers of the late 1980s and all through the 1990s who also has the same customer base as those late 1980s Buick Park Ave and LeSabres...and coincidentally are also the Lincoln Town car's and FWD Continentals... Yes....dark days when the FWD STS was to break free from that market demographic but that only solidified that aging demographic and those people bought the STS as well, making Cadillac just switch the Deville name to DTS because Cadillac realized the STS wasnt changing the demographic tide and that is why the Catera was introduced.... Ironically, 'twas the pro athletes and gangsta rapper Escalade that made Cadillac young and hip.... The CTS was not even born then.... So yeah...the ΧTS represents fully the dark days... Its just that the XTS is a much much much better executed DTS and FWD STS ever was!!!

Thanx for responding to me in a serious way. You actually took the time to discuss and counter without the bullshyte! OK... my HONEST rebuttal and where I TRULY stand because some of that ranting was to OPEN some eyes...while I still stand by what I said, maybe I was a tad too harsh JUST BECAUSE I wanted to prove a point.... It worked! OK... I dont mind the ΧTS still being sold, but I called that out because I felt that Mercedes gets called out unfairly for doing the same thing... Profits and sales go hand in hand....Mercedes needs to do something and Cadillac (forget GM and its other brands to help out with paying the bills for a moment as Cadillac needs to show GM it could swim on its own...it has to show some level of profitability...) needs to do something and both brands/companies gotta do it differently 'cause both brands/companies are different, have different backgrounds and had different roads taken over their 100 years plus of building cars... Each others solutions would not work for the other. Plus, both have R&D and marketing departments to evaluate what progresses and regresses have been made and what SHOULD be done is to correct the direction if it starts straying... So all this talk about the XTS and the CLA and what it would do to the future perceptions of their respective brands is just HOT AIR! We dont know what Mercedes or Cadillac will do to correct any bad directions... What we DO KNOW is that Cadillac has been taking 1 step forwards and 2 steps back since the late 1970s... Do I have to give examples of this or can at least we be honest about that and move on? What we also know is that Mercedes Benz has got their ego bruised by Lexus and Acura in the late 80s and early 90s and got their heads smashed in by BMW in the mid 1990s that as we speak, they are the ones that are blooding the competition.... Oh sure, they have their fair share of stinkers along the way sold in a different market than this one which also proves what directions Mercedes had to take in their 100 years...but this one was a stinker in those markets that it was sold at B Class all sold in the last 15 years But....their R&D and marketing departments countered those missteps... Its pretty phoquing sad though that the Cimarron STILL gets tossed around! Why is that though? I personally get PISSED OFF at ANYBODY that tries to insult Cadillac with the Cimarron as that was a car that was sold 30 PHOQUING YEARS AGO!!!! Problem is that Cadillac keeps on taking 1 step forward 2 steps back and their R&D and marketing departments havent done ANYTHING to let is forget..... For every CT6 there is a Catera For every Escalade there is the 1st gen SRX...let us not forget that the 1st gen 'Slade was a last second effort with very blatant badge engineering because 1 step forward 2 steps back... For every V Series Cadillac there is a ELR, XLR and XTS...fine products but waaaaay undernourished, underdeveloped and OVERESTIMATED and frankly the wrong phoquing product at the wrong phoquing time!!! As far as the sub-ATS goes....these are links to what I found....take those as you will as I remember reading about it....maybe JDN stopped with that plan.... http://blog.caranddriver.com/what-comes-before-a-cadillac-planning-a-sub-ats-sedan/ http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2016/01/cadillac-plotting-sub-ats-rear-drive-sport-sedan.html http://gmauthority.com/blog/2016/06/11-new-future-cadillac-vehicles-by-year-2021-details/ We agree on the TTV8....BUT...I believe that this engine WAS a must but moving forward I believe EVs are where its at! About the confusion part... Well, lets be honest...this car caters to the folk that want the stereotypical American luxury car, but the direction Cadillac is still chasing is that BMW thing of the 1990s...if you dont agree with that....then we will just be going around in circles... However, I did say that Cadillac has no Fleetwoods and Devilles and Cateras to mess that up! I did say the XΤS is a GREAT car...so was the STS, however the STS was still marketed better than the XΤS Maybe Cadillac's marketing department needs to do a better job?

Funny! Balthazar got a thumbs up for his chosen source because we agree with the FAVORABLE review of the STS but we want to leave the effin blinders on and say poorly chosen source and slut shaming for the same car two decades ago!!!! Yet...REALITY is that the STS has LONG PAST and went to RWD at that before dying an agonizing death and the CTS is now at the STS rank when the CTS was BELOW the STS rank and the CTS will be called the CT5... Reality whether we want to admit it or not, is that Balthazar's source is what wishful thinkers believed what the STS was all about and what Jeremy Clarkson's view was HOW THE STS WAS REALLY PERCEIVED IN THE REAL WORLD! Yes, the STS was a GREAT car! The STS however FAILED to stop the EUROPEAN ONSLAUGHT of WHAT LUXURY'S DEFINITION WAS FOR THE 1990s AND BEYOND! The Germans were in control of that whether we want to admit it or not! Still true today whether we want to admit it or not! Except Cadillac has a CLEARER and BETTER way of dealing with it! There are no Fleetwoods and Devilles and Cateras to phoque the progress! What??!!!! There is however the XTS that is EVERYTHING that the Fleetwoods and Devilles and Cateras hampered Cadillac with! Irony is that the FWD STS was a better MARKETED product for Cadillac to sway the masses away from the Germans! Please...dont forget that I posted this before I posted the video... Jeremy is an α$$h0l3...though sometimes he is an α$$h0l3 because he speaks what most people think and what some people might not agree with just to entertain! Regarding the STS....it is what MOST people thought, INCLUDING MOST AMERICANS, hence why the STS name plate is no longer (but the CTS name plate is still around...) Irony part deux: The STS dilemma might be 2 decades old....but those same assbackwards decisions at Cadillac are STILL being made! Looking in the mirror is the HARDEST thing one could do! THIS IS ABOUT PUBLIC PERCEPTION....NOT about the car's real potential versus its competition.... Why is PERCEPTION sometimes MORE IMPORTANT than REAL QUALITIES? Its the buying public that buys and its THEIR PERCEPTION that DICTATES WHAT IS BOUGHT!!! Cadillac's perception is improving, it takes time! This was said enough times in these forums... The STS was part of the dark years at Cadillac and THAT is why a 2 decade old car is relevant and the XTS is part of that heritage whether we want to admit it or not!

yup! This is reality! All detractors of what you posted here all defend with blind faith using double talk to justify their blindness and biases... Talk of the STS being a hit! HA! By this time in 1999, the STS was an also-ran! Great cars the 1st and 2nd generation STS was! But the E39 M5 and E36 M3 heading into the E46 M3 was the gold standard and the D2 Audi A8/S8 was starting to be the Gold Standard and the W220 M-B S Class was leaving the pack behind while the W210 E Class was getting real hot! We seem to ignore how powerfully percieved all those German sedans really were in the late 1990s to the early 2000s and how the STS was really laughed at! I HATE Jeremy Clarkson....I think he is a buffoon. I think his review of the STS is full of shyte! FULL OF SHYTE STEREOTYPES IGNORING THE CRAP EUROPE BUILD!!!! Yet....THIS WAS REALITY OF HOW EVEN AMERICANS SAW THE STS of 2nd generation vintage!!! Only the hardcore GM loyalists defended the STS....myself included!