oldshurst442

Hellcat or Scat-pack. NO CONTEST. MOPAR OR NO CAR. GO MANGO OR SUBLIME

DUDE...the war started in 1939...I know some of you American folk think that WW2 started in 1941... Harley Early and Bill Mitchel were not farm boys in Indiana not knowing what is what... Dude...I READ MANY books on THIS PARTICUALR SUBJECT WAAAAAY BACK IN THE 1980s...I was 10 years old...and the material that I came across state dual vertical stabilizers...ALL OF THEM, NO PARTICULAR aircraft in question...now...I don't remember if those were the EXACT words of Harley and Bill...but REVISIONIST HISTORY is ALWAYS A MUST when it comes down to FACTS!!! And ROMANCE is what is happening here! And THAT is why I KEEP on MENTIONING DUAL VERTICAL STABILIZERS!!! DUAL VERTICAL STABILIZERS... I DID NOT GET THIS ON MY OWN....I GOT IT FROM SOMEWHERE!!! Yes it is PRETTY SILLY... ESPECIALLY WHEN I GOT THE RIGHT ANSWER 2 POSTS IN!!! MY FIRST POST WAS ALSO ACCURATE... Argue all you want with me...my answer is the correct one! Let me repeat...DUAL VERTICAL STABILIZERS WERE the INSPIRATION for fins...and yes the P-38 had those...so did many other planes...that were older...that Harley and Bill actually saw BEFORE the P-38...it jst makes for a more romantic story to say it was from the forkerd devil of an airplane...that supposedly the Germans called it...but in reality, the P-38 was not all that effective for it to be called the forked devil... I heard of a joke that WW2 vets used to say...that it was called the forked devil because it killed its own pilot...kinda like how the F-104 was dubbed the widow maker...ironically by the German airforce as well...

Well...DUH! Of course is a BOLD FACED LIE!!! If Harley Earl and Bill Mitchel was not HONEST about the whole thing...YEAH! ITS A LIE!!! That is a SWATIKA on one of those stabilizers... Im sure both of them did not want to associate Cadillac with the Nazi war machine after the war ended. Before the war...Hitler was alright...Time Life Man of the Year...TWICE! This is a Dornier DO 15...over Athens, Greece....BEFORE the US entered the war... Im sure Harley Earl and Bill Mitchel saw similar photos... That is the thing...All these Nazi aircraft were OLDER airplanes than the P-38... One could say that the inspiration was a P-38...even if its straight from the horses mouth...reality tells a different story though...

P-38 being successful or not is irrelevant...true... But...since I posted 5-6-7 other WW2 era aircraft with dual vertical stabilizers and there are many many others older than the P-38, and since at least one MORE iconic airplane toughed it out in combat during the 1950s and since other related articles that I have read back in the EARLY 1980s while I was just 10 years old reading this information crediting ALL dual vertical stabilizers and not just singling out the P-38, because back then...when the war was over and it was only 40 years passed and not 70 years passed as it is in 2016...when the romance of the P-38 is idolized more over the romance of the B-25...because the romance of the B-25 and B-17 was greater than that of the P-38 in the 1980s...then yeah...it is disingenuous to credit the P-38 solely... Like I said...even if Harley Earl and Bill Mitchel credited the P-38 in the memoirs...what are they to do? Say that a Nazi machine was an inspiration to the Cadillac...in 1948? When the war against the Nazis ended just 3 years prior? The P-38 went into service in 1941... The Messerschmitt BF110 saw action from day one...in 1939... Surely American newspapers had a photogragh or two of the BF110 when WW2 actually started....in 1939...even though the US entered the war in 1941... And...I MENTIONED fins....wrong airplane? BULLSHYTE! other WW2 era aircraft with dual vertical stabilizers and there are many many others older than the P-38, and since at least one MORE iconic airplane toughed it out in combat during the 1950s and since other related articles that I have read back in the EARLY 1980s while I was just 10 years old reading this information crediting ALL dual vertical stabilizers and not just singling out the P-38, because back then...when the war was over and it was only 40 years passed and not 70 years passed as it is in 2016...when the romance of the P-38 is idolized more over the romance of the B-25...because the romance of the B-25 and B-17 was greater than that of the P-38 in the 1980s...then yeah...it is disingenuous to credit the P-38 solely... I wouldn't care as much, but to sit here have someone say to me that I am wrong is just plain....stupid! Ive had this discussion in 1983-1984 with my buddies. Two/three/four 10-12 year old nerds talking about WW2 history, airplanes and cars...in 1983/1984...this is old news for me... And as you could see, I nailed it from the get go... From the F117/Lamborghini connection because the way the thread was worded, it implied MODERN airplane design languages...and even then, I included 2 aircraft as the SR-71 was the first one...we could say that it was the F117...SEMANTICS is NOT a good way to argue! Then the OP said it was false... So I went directly to the fins of the 50s...with a B-25 and B-24...then I SHOWED you folk how many dual vertical stabilizer aircraft really existed during the 1930s and 1940s...with REAL examples of NOT SO SUBTLE DUAL vertical stabilizers in car wings... Then the OP said NO to that too... And you know what? BUBBLE TOP roofs were ALSO a styling theme of the 1950s America wide! And I alos showed MODERN cars with bubble type AIRCRAFT AERODYNAMIC roofs... Then the op SAID no TO THAT TOO...THEN I WENT AIRPLANE EXHAUST ON YOU FOLK...to which the OP said yeah...that may work also...but no he says... So yeah...I guess trivia threads are kinda useless when one gets the answer right, but ignores it...and then another argues facts even when presented with PICS and tries to sound intelligent, all in the while...the answer was given from the get go! No...not the P38...sorry if I burst your bubble in telling ya'll the P-38 is just marketing fluff...ESPECIALLY coming from the designers themselves when it be embarrassing to them to sell us cars that had Nazi elements to them...as the BF110 was an OLDER airplane!!!

No he is not 100% correct. Balthy's POV is dead on! Cadillac does not use subtle fins anymore. Cadillac uses blade taillights that reflect the past, but fins they are not. Nor do they protrude like fins. With me, the article states that the P-38 went out of service in 1948...but you know what? The North American P-51 Mustang AND the North American B-25 Mitchel saw service in Korea. Yeah...that war was between the years 1950-1953... The B-25 had dual vertical stabilizers...and THAT bomber was probably MORE iconic than the P-38 was...but like I mentioned...saying the P-38 was the inspiration is more romantic because it looked different than the others. However, the P-38, for those in the know, was a very difficult plane to fly. It was unstable. And for those in the know, it was not even the first dual vertical stabilizer airplane... So...what is Harley Earl and Bill Mitchel gonna say? That their inspiration comes from a Nazi airplane? I believe that the Messerschmitt BF 110 is an OLDER design than the P-38. I could mbe wrong though, I don't feel like googling.. What are they gonna say? That the inspiration came from goofy looking bombers? Although the B-25 is a beautiful aircraft, it does not appear to be as sleek as the P-38... But that is the thing, there are other dual vertical stabilizer aircraft to put solely the spotlight on the P-38 is disingenuous. People in the know...know better! Plus I read other articles that don't give the P-38 credit for the fin crazy 50s...Dual vertical stabilizers in general are credited. PLUS PLUS...the jet age was upon us anyway...jet airplanes were also an inspiration for the ENTIRE American industry MORE than the fins as Ford did not really give in to this styling, but went all out on the jet engine motif and it does continue today....and I gave many examples of that. My very first post...along with airscoops, the F-16 as well as the P-51 Mustang... The article states that newer fighters made it obsolete... The Supermarine Spitfire was an OLDER design and it was a better aircraft...that it why the P-38 never saw action over Europe. The P-51 plane was a newer design but only became a dominant fighter when the UK proposed to put the Rolls Royce engine in it... The Messerscmitt BF 109 was also an older airplane than the P-38, but that too was a better aircraft. The Focke Wolfe FW 190 was a newer airplane, almost as good as the P51D version of the Mustang, with the Merlin engine, and that too was a better airplane than the P-38... No wonder the P-38 never saw action in Europe. The Pacific war front... The Hellcat and other American fighters took over well before the war ended...funny though, in Europe, the BF 109 continued to march on, and that airplane too was woefully obsolete by 1943-1944....but it was a more stable flyer than the P-38 was... Trust me, during the war, the real people fighting the war, did not like the P38 much...

I also have a problem with this too...as I mentioned fins...like my second post. NO, I did not mention the P-38, I mentioned the B-25 and B-24. Bill Mitchel and Harley Earl could mention P-38 all they want for their inspiration....But there are several aircraft during WW2 to have dual vertical stabilizers.....to boot, I even posted the same year Cadillac as the article. 'Xcept my pic was a coupe rather than a sedan. From the USA B-24 B-25 P-38 From the UK Lancaster From Germany Dornier Do 17, 215 and 217 Messerschmidt BF110 From The USSR Petlyakov Pe-2 Its semantics to have said no to me... As the story goes....only because the P-38 looks to be the more romantic story line because it looks prettier than the others with dual vertical stabilizers... I personally prefer the North American B-25 Mitchel and the Messerschmidt Bf-110 in looks over the others. The Russian Pe-2 aint too shabby lookin' either. Yup. I more airplane crazy than I am car crazy. PS: There are others too. I just dont feel like posting all of them..

I aint enjoying the experience either. Ive gotten used to it, but I dont like it. I too, find the new digs to be too busy. I also find the new digs to be cold and uninviting. I cant put my finger on why that is, but that is how I feel.

I have come to terms with FCA's Sergio phoquing it up for Chryco. But...at least we got a couple of years of fan-phoquing-tastic Mopars from that deal. We got 2-3 years of Viper. We got Hellcats. Remember, Chryco was finished. It would have been the end right then and there in 2009. Prolonging the agony is what it seems now though.

Thank-you. Even though some of my answers are just for fun, I tried to at least make logical connections. Like the exhaust comparison. It was a serious and legit answer. The fire part was of pure levity though. Yes. Me too as I dont know where else to go with comparisons....

HyperTube? The ultimate stage left move to distract peeps? What does have to do with distracting peeps? He is quite the informed poster most of the time. And Ive read his posts, he is far from having left moves. He is as right as one could get... OH!!!! HyperTube!!!! Not hyperv6!!!

Montreal, Québec, Canada. Born and raised and still living proudly in Montréal. In the heart of the city is where I was raised and now I own a restaurant and live in a suburb of Montréal in the west of the island. My dad was also born and raised in Montréal while his parents emigrated to Canada from Greece in the late 1890s. Montréal is where they decided to call home. My mom was born and raised in Greece and in her early 30s decided to emigrate to Canada in 1967. She took a boat ride from Piraeus, Greece and landed in Halifax, Canada to which she took a train ride to Montréal where she ultimately met my dad and eventually had me. Unlike Frisky, it does not look like I move around much and maybe its because of that reason that I cant see myself living anywhere else other than Montréal. Ive visited Toronto twice, Boston plenty of times, NYC plenty of times, Paris & Amsterdam once and only for a short couple of hours, Athens-Greece plenty of times and the islands and villages of Greece of where my family comes from but Montréal is where Id rather be...for now. Retirement is for another conversation. (leave it to me to make a novel sized post regarding just 1 location of residence that I have ever held)

Somehow, this scene springs to my mind...

Airplane exhaust: Buick side vents...round, square, it dont matter: Or anybody else for that matter: Or....fire

Ill do yet another one. Im enjoying searching for and pics of airplanes for a change. I KNOW this aint it either, just doing this for pure fun for you folk and for me. The single wing. Bi-Planes and Tri-Planes are sooooooo WW1. Single wings started out just before WW2 in the 1930s. Front air splitters

Unless of course we are talking about air scoops on the underbelly of the aircraft... To airscoops anywhere on sports cars? Ram Air hoods, Ram air scoops.....airflow pass throughs.....

Well....I also thought about the 20 year thing placing the era at 1995 as well, but because I know my aircraft well, I know that airplanes in 1995 were not exactly new. All the designs in 1995 that flew were from the 1970s. F-16, F-18, MiG 29...And these airplanes were massaged designs from the 1960s such as the F-15 and MiG 25... Even the SR-71 is from the 1960s...the 1980s and 1990s were just about enhanced versions of the 1970s aircraft. Yes, this is an oversimplified revision, but this aint a history lesson on military aircraft either... But the next generation aircraft..like the Stealth Bomber and the F-117 started in the 1990s and that is why y first post went to the SR-71 (first attempt at stealth) and to the F-117 with Lamborghini. Sharp edges on cars is also used by Cadillac and Acura. Hardly industry wide, but I took a shot. Yeah....I have nothing. I gave it all that I had. I have no idea what 1995ish airplane design made it into cars today. Like I said, the F-16, F-18 and MiG 29 were 1970s designs that what we have today are just better avionics and eletronics on these aircraft. The Stealth stuff is truly late 1980s, 1990s stuff. The we get the delta winged Mirages from the French. 1960s. Sorry, 1950s as Canada did the Avrow Arrow. EDIT I see that it is indeed the WW2 era.... . OK...bubble canopies... The Spitfire and P-51D started with the bubble canopy thing. What? Wrap around windshields and/or bubble top roofs? On modern cars? They both have some sort of bubble top roof....

Okay...Ill do another: But this one is just for fun as I know this is not it. The Jet engine one is a legit response and guess. I like this thread so Id like to continue posting pics of airplanes.... Junkers Ju-87 Stuka and Vought F4U Corsair With Gullwing doors and scissor doors

Or....And I know you said same era as the P51 Mustang...which is WW2 propellar era. But the jet age did start during WW2, so....not only did Oldsmobile do the rocket theme logo and Rocket 88 name plates... Ford had afterburner tail-lights in the 1950s and 1960s Chrysler actually did have a turbine engine in their car and stylized accordingly And modern Ford....

What I find amusing is that when Tesla's Elon Musk talks a big game, he is said to be a magician. Smoke and mirrors.... When fossil fuel automotive CEO freaks talk a big game about EVs, not as much as a hint of negativity is thrown that way.... Yet...VAG(Porsche, Audi, VW and the rest), nor Mercedes have a pure EV on the market as we speak and their projects are at least another 2-3 years away. We give Elon shyte for the Model 3 that is 2-3 years away, and ironically will probably be sold at that 50-60 thousand dollar threshold as SMK has stated, but probably a tad cheaper and a very capable P100 could be bought RIGHT NOW! Plus the lesser battery Model S P##s for cheaper than the big gun P100... To boot, VAG, BMW, M-B throw out EV performance numbers that their EVs will possibly be doing 2-3-4-5-6-7 years from now that a P100 actually does RIGHT NOW!!! *SIGH* Yeah. Yeah. When the rest of the automobile industry makes a Tesla Model S fighter, Tesla will fold........... 'When and if' arguments just kill me!

@Frisky Dingo You snooze, you lose Frisky... @dfelt @ccap41 Aston Martins are just pure class...Clark Gable, Gary Cooper, Fred Astaire.

What if the owners/operators of the speed tracks get a Tesla supercharger two at the track itself? Food for thought.. You know....charging a Tesla after ludicrous quarter mile passes aint that big of a deal when some cars use the same amount of time to cool off... I couldnt find a better pic, but it is common for turbo cars to sit out a couple of runs with ice bags on the intercooler to cool off to have better runs... So....In my personal opinion, battery loss is a non-issue when in ludicrous mode at a race track. It may be an issue on the open road and your foot is heavier than usual and your anticipated and calculated range falls short...

B-25 Mitchel Or B-24 Liberator with the dual vertical stabilizers and the Fins of the Fifties... But....modern fins as well

Either the SR-71 Or the F-117 With Lamborghini

OK...so... A decade or so ago...I was an Oldsmobile kinda guy. If Oldsmobile still existed today, Id be buying myself Oldsmobiles...If I was alive in the 1950s and 1960s as a young professional, Id be buying myself Super 88s, Cutlass 442s and Toronadoes. Gentleman's hot rods were made by Oldsmobile... Seeing as this brand does not exist anymore, I tried to become an Acura guy. Well. Piss on me for that! Be as it may...Acura does have one interesting car at this price range that Id buy. But, before I mention what that Acura may be, I am also an Aston Martin kinda guy...I like to think myself as a gentleman. A classy debonair kinda guy and thank the lord Aston Martin still exists and I could play this game with pride! Aston Martin DB11 OK OK....I know...I know...MSRP starts at $215 000 Don't you worry don't you fear when the Aston Martn Vantage still exists for 2016... V8 or V12...does it look like I give a phoque???!! (not very gentlemanly choice of words there...Bite Me!) And then there is the Acura NSX that I wouldn't mind having. Exotic Car for the discreet gentleman. Let us be it be clear with that...Aston Martin waaaaaay before the NSX Acura though. Dodge Challenger Hellcat plus Dodge Viper to attain the minimum requirement of 150 000 waaaaaay before Acura NSX....Got it? GOOD!