ccap41

Very true! Similar to the 8spd that wasn't originally in the ATS, the 320i wasn't around back then either. So the Cadillac is a bargain? I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing and like you said, it all depends how they're equipped... You could get a base engined car over the price of the optional engined car if one chooses that route.

The thing with the GT is even if you and I had the cash for one... we still wouldn't be able to buy one. It isn't like a 488 or 675 where we can order one and get it. No, there was an application process and a limited run of 500(Or was it 1000 in 4 years?) and they're all spoken for. So while I agree with you.. I don't for that reason only. Had I had the money..I still COULDN'T get one. You only insinuate it every time Cadillac interiors are compared to anything else.

According to YOU it is the better car hands down. Many of the professionals had split decisions. And it is great their first(real) shot at the small sport sedan segment was that great! I'm not knocking their attempt, they made a good product. I'm just saying that they absolutely copied what BMW was doing, because they basically said they were. They absolutely do not have the better engines. n/a V6 without torque vs a severely underrated turbo I6. BMW/s I4 was even better while being severely underrated. Thank god Cadillac finally ditched the garbage 2.5. Not that it was that bad of a motor but it didn't belong in a Cadillac. I4's vs each other was night and day BMW winning. 6's? Same thing. BMW whooped the Cadillac. ATS 2.0T 0-60: 6.3 1/4 Mile: 14.8 BMW 2.0T 0-60: 5.6 1/4 Mile: 14.3 ATS 3.6 0-60: 5.5 1/4 Mile:14.0 BMW 3.0T 0-60: 4.8 1/4 Mile:13.4 http://www.caranddriver.com/comparisons/2012-bmw-328i-vs-2013-cadillac-ats-comparison-test http://www.motortrend.com/cars/bmw/3-series/2012/2012-bmw-335i-2013-cadillac-ats-mercedes-benz-c350-comparison/ Uhhh... When did the ATS ever outsell the 3 Series...? So Lincoln didn't copy a specific car from Cadillac? I didn't think so.

I mean more with cars like the Continental or a Camaro SS(mostly last gen) where yeah they're heavy cars but who really cares? They both do what the're designed to do. If you want the manufacturer to drop tons of cash into the overall weight of the vehicle expect something either way more expensive or more Miata-like where handling is their top priority. People bitch about how the Ford GT isn't as light as it "should" be and to that I say... so what? I know we don't have any comparisons tests(likely because Ford is afraid of not stomping the competition and they won't look good..HATE THAT) but the formula they wrote is a solid one and weighing..50lbs more than fanboys and girls would like makes for a petty argument, if you ask me. House of Cards rocks. I love that show.

1 of 5(as a random estimate) was not in an way insinuating that they are the only ones doing it. I've gotten on them as well for using the wrong transmission. I don't know how but they needed to launch that with the 9spd. I know it wasn't really possible with how things times out but they should have pushed this back or something. That should have been a "Needs to get finished" for it to launch. I will never understand why people care about what a vehicle weighs IF it does its intended goal. Luxury car weighs too much, still does what it needs to accomplish.

I'm not implying they could have at all. They just don't give a $h! to do that. What benefit would they have gotten by trying to make a sport sedan and then being one of like 10 entrants or go the route they did and they're more like 1 of 5. But like you said, they don't even have something to make as a sport sedan so what good would it have done them to hold onto their other $h! for X more years until they finish their D4 platform(or whatever the heck it's called)? Everything is kind of a placeholder until the next, better product comes down the line.. Who knows if Lincoln will ever make real "comeback cars". I think Ford/Lincoln are too big of pansies to allow them to really go nuts.

Sometimes I think you just hate vehicles to hate them because the legroom in a Continental is larger than an S Class.. You see professional athletes 7ft tall in S Classes. S Class Front Legroom: 41.4 inches Rear Legroom: 34.1 inches Continental Front Legroom: 44.4 inches Rear Legroom: 41.3 inches If you don't like the Continental, that's totally cool. Just use something that makes more sense...lol

Who cares though? They made it public that they aren't chasing "dynamic" cars so be it transverse or longitudinally. Why fork out the cash for a different chassis for something so minute to their target audience? If they were pretending to be a sports sedan, you'd be spot on and I'd agree 100%. What are its shortcomings? It isn't a sport sedan(and they're not afraid to hide it)? lol

I thought you already said they're top notch and that there's nothing else that could be done to improve them anyway?

But they didn't create a better product. They created something equally as good. Both have highs and both have lows but, If I'm not wrong, most comparisons was almost a coin flip as to which was better. Caddy had the chassis while the BMW had the engines. My rationale had nothing to do with Lincoln. it was solely the BMW 3 being copied by Cadillac. What did Lincoln make that was within an inch of every exterior measurement of Cadillac while also saying "we're bench marking X Lincoln" ? All of your excuses on why the Continental SHOULDN'T be a good car has nothing to do with why it IS a good car. While it isn't some ground breaking technological advancement(although those seats are pretty damn nifty) they went and did their own thing and said from the beginning what the goal of the car was, and it wasn't to be like another car. Outside of enthusiasts, nobody gives a fck what wheels drive your car. It isn't a sports sedan so why does it matter if it is FWD based or RWD based? I'd bet half of the buyers in this large, luxury car segment don't know if their luxury car is FWD or RWD based, they just get AWD if they want it.

"We appreciate why BMW's 3 Series sedans have been popular for so long. Apparently Cadillac has a similar appreciation, as its engineers make no bones about using the BMW sedan as the benchmark for their new ATS." "How closely did Cadillac emulate BMW? The 3 Series and ATS are within an inch of each other in exterior dimensions except for the BMW's 1.3-in. longer wheelbase." "Cadillac emulated the 3 Series' packaging, but might have been better off its back seat were a bit more spacious. Set the four seats for 6-foot-tall folks and the ATS is tight in back. Yes, there are tens of thousands of 3 Series sold that prove this may not actually be a problem, but another inch of rear seat legroom would have been nice in the ATS." "The fun part is the Caddy/BMW comparo. Start with both company's 2.0-liter dohc direct-injected fours: Cadillac's puts out 272 bhp, while the BMW generates 240 bhp. Both engines produce 260 lb.-ft. of torque. " "Is the new Cadillac ATS as good as a BMW 3 Series? Remember "the same, only different?" The pair does share quite a bit—in everything from overall size and drivetrains to intent. They are remarkably close." http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/first-drives/reviews/a18340/2013-cadillac-ats-1/ Heck, I think the exteriors look great on their new stuff as well.

They were open about making a 3 Series w/ a Cadillac badge on it. It's not the same when you're entering a market and publicly bench marking something and you build said vehicle within an inch everywhere. Mustang and Camaro were never THAT physically close to each other. Look at you taking shots at somebody who WANTS an ATS. Sorry brochacho, some ppl don't think Cadillac(or any company) is perfect. Lincoln brand is copying Cadillac brand? In what way?!? Cadillac builds sports sedans and Lincoln...doesn't.

@Cubical-aka-Moltar I completely agree. The competition is too tight with all of the sport sedans right now that it would be tough to even crack the segment so what else do you do? Make your own. And this isn't even making a segment it's bringing back what they used to be.

Yep, follow the leader. Lincoln has attempted to set their own pace with the Continental. That's no sport sedan. We'll see how that fairs down the road.

Not a chance. Plus, a 1.6L turbo.. that thing will NEED boost to move anything.. This will be light, very light but batteries still aren't feathers so it's tough to imagine it being some sub 3000lb car with batteries and motors. MT weighed a 918 at 3791lbs. So we can assume lighter than that but how much lighter? So to move, let's say, 3500lbs with a 1.6L it'll need boost almost all the time. Not max or peak boost but a n/a 1.6L v6 that spins to the heavens needs boost because zero torque at low rpm.

I knew you were on crack. 22mpg combined. https://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymodel/2015_Porsche_918_Spyder.shtml

Yes, its clearly what they were aiming for. If you're open about targeting a specific car then yes, you're not doing your own thing. You're trying to follow/beat somebody else's creation. That's not original at all.

I saw this random EV bus downtown today. Hopefully one of the local fleets is replacing theirs with them. Something Mr @dfelt would like to see and NOT HEAR because near silent.

Okay you were doing good until you said better gas mileage than a Prius... There is no way you could daily drive that and achieve 50mpg. Yeah yeah yeah.. it's got a theoretically range of 18 miles of full EV but when that runs out there is no way it is still a 30mpg+ car. No. Freaking. Way. Yeah, this gets better fuel mileage for 18 miles, heck probably up to about 25 miles if you drive this like a little girl and keep a light foot beyond the EV range.

The ATS was almost the exact measurements of the 3 Series when it came out. If I'm not wrong, it was within a half inch on every exterior dimension. "The ATS was presented as a true BMW 3 Series competitor, and was benchmarked against what Cadillac says is the best 3 Series ever, the E46. " If that isn't them bench marking the Germans...then I don't know what is.

That center stack/console looks atrocious. The instrument cluster looks great, even though it looks like it is out of a LT1 Camaro.

Are we talking about a theoretical car? I don't see no C8 for sale yet. If, when, where, how... it's not out yet but an AMG GT sure as hell is and that's one badass car. Bests anything from the good ole U S of A has right now because Ford won't let anybody test their GT.

omg... you're just so damn stubborn sometimes. I've said it like 3-4 times now but I'll make the font bold so maybe you actually read what I'm saying. I'm not saying they have a bad interior(current gen). I'm saying for the money when you are entering the 100k club, they aren't up to snuff but when you're talking 60-80k range they are still very good. It is all dependent on what the owner wants out of a car. All out performance? Obviously Vette/ZL1/Shelby but as those cars approach 100k their interiors look worse and worse next to their similarly priced competition. But they light up almost everything when talking performance metrics. That why I said it is all perspective and what the owner/buyer wants. I'm not just talking shet on GM. You mentioned my knocking on the ATS earlier and while I admit there are downfalls they aren't enough to stop me from wanting one. "Oh nooooo, a Ferd guy wants a GM?!?!?"

WTF are you picking Carrera 4S prices for? Carerras start at 91k And this goes exactly to what I said in the beginning which managed to trigger you, it's all perspective. It depends what you want. If you want a car that spanks cars twice/thrice/four times as much? Buy a Vette/Z06/ZL1/Shelby. If you want something that will do a little more pampering and is likely quieter inside, get a similarly priced Benz/BMW/Porsche. To keep up with the above listed cars one has to easily spend double the cash in Germany if not as much as 4 times in the case of the ZL1 besting Mclarens.

I agree and that's why I said it is clear they put more R&D cash into how they actually drive and the performance they put down.