surreal1272
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Everything posted by surreal1272
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And who cares if the Escalade does inflate it? It's part of their lineup and it makes them a killing, which last time I checked was a good thing. It's like pointing out that Fords ATPs can be attributed to their biggest seller, the profit machine known as the F-150. When did it become a problem to make a profit? I guess it became one when it wasn't about Ford. And mentioning the Navigator as the reason for lower ATPs of Lincoln is silly for the simple fact that even if it was counted the same, there is also a $30k price difference at the top tier trim level to consider (Navigator vs. the Escalade). Like I said, excuses a plenty that matter not.
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And as I pointed out, it has everything to do with it unless you are beholden to the brand you are trying to defend. Your simply disagreeing with it doesn't make it any less true. The excuses have been plenty but the facts are even more plentiful.
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The CT6 starts at $10K more than the Conti and the gap is even larger on top tier models.
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Who cares? I'm not going to speak for anyone else but on that logic, would Ford fans be gloating about Conti sales if we were comparing it to the XTS alone or if (heaven forbid) is lost to the higher priced CT6? It goes both ways Wings. Oh and newsflash, never said it did but it's not hard to make a reasonable assumption about such things unless you are beholdened to the company you are trying to defend.
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Per the sales thread for last month. XTS-2653 Continental-1419 CT6-1169
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The Mustang was selling more than 30% to fleet while the Camaro was selling 8%. Feel free to research that (one only needs to see the drop off in sales of the Mustang from July to September alone to reach the obvious conclusion). Also, Lincoln overall fleet was more than double that of Cadillac so it's a reasoanable assumption that the Conti is selling more fleet models as well. This isn't a dig on Lincoln but just a statement of simple facts. It has been well documented that Fords fleet numbers were higher than the industry average while GM was below average. https://www.google.com/amp/amp.usatoday.com/story/93158922/?client=safari Pay attention to the third paragraph here, regarding how heavy their fleet numbers were earlier this year http://www.autonews.com/article/20160401/RETAIL01/304019981/ford-outsells-gm-on-higher-fleet-shipments and again, the Conti is priced and packaged more in line with the XTS, which sold more last month than the Conti and CT6 combined.
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Actually Wings opened it and I did see those "incentives" and none offered proof of it being from the manufacturer. The even better present is that you think the incentives of an, again, outgoing niche model car is somehow worse than a mainstream "best selling" current year and model car. The fact that you can't or refuse to see the difference there is a bonus gift. Again, feel free to reference the link provided regarding current incentives by make and model. It's rather eye opening. I don't expect the two biggest Ford fans here to agree with what was presented but understand that your agreement is not a requirement for it to be true. I stand by my statement and you will stand by yours. Now, seeing as how none of this has anything to do with the Continental, as someone once said, topic please.
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Proof because the only links found regarding the (at the time) outgoing Z/28 was a from a handful of dealerships and again, those were dealership mark downs and not factory, as you claim here. There were no factory incentives of that size. Keep reaching yourself because I find it funny that you two harp on a single outgoing model while ignoring the 25% off of a current year Mustang GT (of which I provided proof). Btw, since you want to go the incentive route, feel free to reference my link a few posts above regarding those and note the makes in the top 25 or so.
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GM is also using co-pilots and my initial point is that Ford is also testing in the cities here and not just their mock city in Michigan, which in case you missed it the first time, I think is a far better idea (the mock city part). "DETROIT (AP) — General Motors has started testing fully autonomous vehicles on public roads around its technical center in suburban Detroit The announcement comes just one week after Gov. Rick Snyder signed legislation that allows the cars to be tested on public roads without a driver or a steering wheel. But the automaker says that for now, it will have human backup drivers for its fleet of autonomous Chevrolet Bolt electric cars."
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I will simply counter one "extreme example" from one Camaro dealership (on an outgoing model nonetheless) with 25% off of a current year Mustang GT. http://www.tedbritt.com/inventory/new-ford-mustang-gt-stock-c65175/ or how about up to 30% off of a new F-150? http://www.mainlandford.com/30-off/ I guess, based on Cosworths logic, that Ford should be sorry too for believing that they could ask so much for their cars and trucks.
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What you seem to be forgetting is that the name "Continental" used to mean something, 40 years ago, before Ford neglected it, much like Cadillac did with the DeVille name (and thus highlighting why they did not bring that nameplate back). I can take or leave the letter/number based naming schemes but most folks these days don't even recall when either of those names meant something for the reason I just mentioned. Most have only seen how those cars got trashed by Ford and GM for four decades. Just offering a different. perspective on this naming thing and why bringing back an old name sometimes isn't the best idea.
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No worries. I stand by my post (which was backed up with facts) and you will stand by yours.
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They are not just testing in "mock" cities though (which I agree with for the record). From Ford's media page, "This year, Ford will triple its autonomous vehicle test fleet to be the largest test fleet of any automaker – bringing the number to about 30 self-driving Fusion Hybrid sedans on the roads in California, Arizona and Michigan, with plans to triple it again next year." They have been testing self driving Fusions on regular roads in and around the Phoenix area. I personally think self driving cars are a disaster in the making, also for the record. I'm just going to leave it at that.
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What is also missed, in this talk of incentives and backed up by the link I provided, is that Ford and Lincoln populate the top half of the incentive scale right now and were running heavy incentives this year up until August on cars like the Mustang so it's a little hypocritical to bring up niche cars like the ZL1 or even the Camaro as a whole when you see what the competition is doing throughout the year.
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This^^. Why some want to ignore and brush aside the fleet equation and the fact that Fords was well above the industry average for most of the year, is beyond me.
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Here's nice look at incentives currently. http://www.realcartips.com/news/0743-biggest-car-rebates.shtml
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Folks can talk about the Conti competing with the CT6 and sale figures but the fact is that it has more in common with the XTS, which sold more than the Conti and CT6 combined last month alone. Why MT fails to acknowledge the XTS is beyond me escpecially when the CT6 competes at higher price point. Take that for what it's worth and it does not take away from the many positives of the Conti. It's a step in the right direction for Lincoln and we should hope for its success.
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And I would take any of them, including the 370Z, over this. It's ugly on the outside, even uglier on the inside, and an unreliable pile of top of that. That is the perfect recipe for never getting a dime from me.
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So many more, and better, choices for $32K. Just a whole lot of "nope" there.
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Ram News: Rumorpile: Ram Trucks Delays Redesign of Heavy Duty Trucks
surreal1272 replied to William Maley's topic in Ram
Why am I not surprised by FCA delaying yet another car or truck that is not a Fiat or a Jeep? -
Not wanting to deal with certain aspects of ICE ownership is not a "phobia" and its rather pretentious and borderline condescending to even insulate it when the reasons have been clearly laid out by several posters here. Folks fighting against obvious progress because of their own "phobias" should consider this example. If you have to pee or poop, you can always go outside in the yard or the outhouse but I bet you choose to use the bathroom instead. Think about it for more than a minute.
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First off, your scenario works for you. Congrats. That does not apply to everyone though and you know it. Second, that "no cost" is only good for two years with most makes. After that, it's coming out of your wallet and time (and my time is money so there's that too). Third, there are other savings and advantages that have been well discussed in other threads about EVs. A little research goes a long ways. And what ICE car can you possibly compare to a Bolt? All I know is that the company you hold stock in has an EV with a 140 mile shorter range and starts at $30K. Besides, it's called taking a chance and GM should at least be applauded for it. Like it or not, the future of most cars and CUVs is in EV tech and those costs will come down with every passing year, just like when hybrids made their way onto the scene almost two decades ago. This, this, and more of this! Too many here think that their minority examples are the norm when they are the exact opposite.
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Yeah heaven forbid someone NOT wanting to deal with either and saving some time and money in the process.
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Outside of not having to ever visit a gas station again, the maintenance schedules are one of the top reasons for me to consider an EV. Like Drew said, there are many reasons to want to go the EV route other than not needing gasoline and oil ever again. I'm telling you, I may make the leap to a pre-owned Volt with an eye on a full fledged EV down the road.
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I think that's a safe number for them and it's good to know that if the Bolt really takes off, then they are prepared for the extra demand.
