turbo200

sorry to get into this----but don't be a jackass, again. recognize evok's opinion as more than just an opinion--an idea based in real fact and understanding. your threaten to harass another valued member is masochistic to this site.

07 SRX is supposed to be getting mid cycle enhancement that will include the new interior, possibly from the new CTS. the front end will also change slightly.

We don't even know that for sure. All we can say about Pontiac is the next G6 better be successful in the marketplace, and that it is the only car definitely in the pipeline and funded at Pontiac. No other cars are officially in development, and just because GM says they want RWD small cars, well it's all just speculation and heresay until official program codes come out. Until then they can keep teasing us, keeping us in hope of somehting in the near future when the reality is Kappa II capable of small sedans and coupes will be around 2012....or maybe never.

again, i agree with all your points. and I like your wheel size selections as well. Buicks should NOT come with hubcaps. You don't see Lexus, Acura, Audi, Saab pulling that kind of crap, and if Buick ever wants to get even slightly closer to them, they cannot either.

34 days to turnover is not high for any car. Toyota SUVs have been historically good, but not completely mainstream, GM fortunately still owns this market; so sales comparisons are moot point in this category. However, go over to where they have higher chance of making gains, the midsize sedan segment, compact and large truck market, and you will see that in most of these categories, GM risks losing share to Toyota still. Don't start calling the competition done until GM has shown profits and increases that are measurable, unlike Tahoe gains which so far haven't helped the company out of the red [though they are inching closer].

the man makes a strong case. you just cannot deny that there are many appealing japanese vehicles, but because of your GM diehard mentality, camino, which is okay, you personally cannot look at those. those of us in favor of choice and competition for the sake of better cars like to look at the rest and understand the appeal of everyone. I agree with your totals enzl, the cars you listed, imo are the best GM offers, but it's a drop in the bucket compared to some of thier really sore cars. The entire Buick lineup of cars, Chevy cars and most trucks, Pontiac [except GTO and G6 GTP]......or basically a whole lot of the lineup. It's not that these cars are completely unappealing, but the competition does them better. If GM were the only arround, people could be plenty happy with them, but the competition is wooing those people away since they do exist. About Kappa; this is a classic example of GM misreading the market, thier brands, and thier dire need for good product. RWD is very popular these days, and GM underestimated the need for good RWD product, good product that could have Pontiac in much more enviable position today. Instead, product planning gave us a platform that will give a total of 40k cars/yr. That's it! Ridiculous. A Pontiac compact, RWD, sedan and coupe could easily achieve 200k sales if priced and styled right. We really are not trying to rain on anyone's parade. You guys like to point fingers----the only choice we have is to defend our positions. Would you do the same, especially if you thought your viewpoint was reasonable?

and this is why import consumers are so reticent to shop domestic manufacturers. They have all migrated from GM, and upon stopping at Honda/Toyota were shocked, schocked, at the inherent goodness of those automobiles. from engineering detail, driving dynamics, efficiency, reliability, durability, quality......these are all areas GM has lagged the competition in the past 30 years, and are now paying dearly for it. evok put it best in this thread, up a couple posts. import customers are gm customers who were pissed off by gm and will not come back unless something dramatic pulls them in. and the younger generations just react to the environment. they learn imports are the better product, and this is forever cemented in thier mind. Gm has not done much to change that perception.

you still seem to be missing the point. our goal is to improve them to where they can actually stand on a competitive level with the world. at this point they are not there. look at caddy and compare them to mb. look at chevy and compare the cars to honda/toyota. there's a world of difference there, in brand new products in some cases. there are no grudges on my part. the reason i am loyal to GM is I grew up in a GM heavy family where the GMs were nothing but reliable. Mostly pieces of turd to drive around in, but damn reliable. And that's why I complain. I know where they could go if they put the right effort, but it's never consistent with GM. and the overwhelming majority here will agree with me. it's every once in a while that a renegade comes in here and challenges that perspective. I'm not saying that's who you are though. surely a design can always be improved upon....but we're asking for GM designs to stand up, not just on equal grounds with the competition, but blow them away, because that is what is needed to win back reticent, loyal import shoppers.

ya, i didn't need to lose the weight either, it just happened. now i just look like i have no fat and some muscle formation

the answer is one-two. actually, my diet is pretty terrible right now, but i have to go with less than three meals most of the time, and i don't really drink anything but water. BUT, what I do eat is mostly fast food. and i can look like that on a good day. i've lost something like 13 pounds on this diet, of course with some good excercise thrown in for good measure.and wth, we need some females with nothing but bras on to balance this out.

increased pricing on cars like the Tahoe is what good product is all about. Once you release the right car, and demand goes up, then you can reap the benefits of actually getting MSRP value for the car, rather than steeply discounted transaction prices. Of course, key to this is hitting the right note with product.

all that being said, to respond to MR. Krinkle and all those who feel we are taking the "breath out of thier chests" with our criticism and analyses.....ultimately our opinion holds as much weight as you let it. When we are being super critical, which we often are here, cue Aura thread, it's because we pour over the details and are more than a little obsessive in how we want to see things improve. This, however, does not mean that car will not find an audience........but if it doesn't you better be sure we will know the correct answer for why it did not [it usually is either execution, didn't stand out enough, isn't up to the standards, a pick of the three]. The American audience is obviously a lot less critical, for the most part, than most here. But the import consumers really are an educated and spoiled bunch. Just any car will not woo them back. That's why it's so necessary to constantly put out cars that shame the competition. So far GM has proved lackadaisical [understatement of the year] in this regard.

I will add that as a long-time visitor of this site, among many others, we have seen GM disappoint us on too many occasions. We have asked for changes and have not received responses on too many occasions. We have shown our opinions are of merit and are not contrived or aimed for the detriment of the company----and we have also been reasonable in our requests, for the most part, and have shown we are educated consumers. We back GM, but we support the right for choice, and, largely, we follow design and engineering of the industry as a whole. We are all very qualified consumers---GM, along with many other manufacturers use this site as a test bed for thier products, and rightly so, this is like a really good, really informed test panel group. We know what's out there, we know what we like, and most of us are not afraid to tell it like it is. That's what makes this site successful. We are very qualified to share our opinions, and not to toot my own horn, but I feel there is a lot of creativity and passion going in here, in some cases more than inside GM's own walls, that needs to be transferred to GM. That's why they read us. That's why they keep coming back for more to see if we're pleased. We represent a very informed piece of the consumer pie that actually really studies and analyzes design, in a mostly informed fashion. Getting back to the disappointments---there are clearly too many examples for me to cite. I do remember meeting with a GM designer long before the Lucerne and Lacrosse, and this latest batch of almost there also rans product, where I was told those cars would be lame, but beyond those Buick would see a revolution. The very same words came from insiders/analysts who visit this site. Could something have been done? Yes, too much priority/money was placed in getting these cars out, like the new Impala, that was far from competitive in the first place, 5 years ago, and basically basing them on the same car/platform and rereleasing them only to see the same exact scenario play out, where the competition's car represent such a genuine advancement, the catch up car GM released barely caught up with the old generation of the competition already on its way out. We have seen this too many time. And we have complained of this too many times. I have sat here, spend thousands of hours, sadly, but fortunately [i like sharing opinions, and listening to others' opinions], and have complained about the product since day one. Product product product was the call that was made. Not for somehting that will catch up, but something that will set fire to the marketplace. Many around here have said that line too often. With GM, the only real product that has done that in recent times have been the Z06/vette, GMT900s, and the CTS----for different reasons each, but on each car the design was treated with utmost importance, creativity came through, and you have success. Design is something we have been far critical of here. And we weren't the first. I can remember reading analysts' comments years ago from press releases discussing the failure of GM's cars and the percieved reasons. always cited was boring design. they failed to catch the attention, for the most part. There were some sterling examples like mentioned above, and others beyond those, but for the most part GM has lacked the balls to be really creative and bold. This will end up killing them if they don't react to it, and make design truly innovative. The competition is killing them because of it.

I agree, HID should be standard.

beautiful. so much old bmw character in there with fresh surfacing and texture and some new character lines thrown in. the interior is flat perfect. I see idrive but no navigation

damn pic whore!

hmmmm.....i don't see it?

I love the terrible angle that shows nothing of what the spoiler looks like on the car. Way to sell cars, GM!

pricing seems good on DTS, and you're right that it's a transitional vehicle. I just feel it does more harm than good, and STS should have been more of a viable replacement for the old Deville. As it is, CTS and STS have stolen a lot of that car's sales, so it makes sense that a lot of Deville shoppers are just loyal Caddy shoppers.

that was no concept we were shown on 60 minutes. it is the real thing, headlights and grille match, and the door panel is just the beginning. we will see the interior on 60 minutes come to fruition. GM could not afford anything less in that class of cars.

We all love GM. This is the rough spot. As news starts to improve and newer product starts hitting the mark more often you will see more good things to praise the company you love. Until then, we are all realists, and if you're in it for the long haul you've seen this coming and have to deal with it. If you are tired of me, hit ignore my friend. This is the rough spot, and it will last for some time, but it looks like we are seeing the beginning of the real product revolution. This is a most important time to GM, so every move will be scrutinized.

I said Cadillac needs to concentrate on value and pricing. To explain this a little further, when you're in the luxury field that means the opposite of the regular market. Cadillac needs to concentrate on offering more in its car so it can price them higher, more percieved value, quality, and higher levels of technology and style.

not bitching, you misunderstood, and my words are there never changed. it's not a bad car, but not the right car Cadillac needs in its upwards march. Doesn't compete against the LS, S-class, A8, 7, then what exactly should we think of Caddy?

it seems we thought a lot of things about GM that still aren't so true Josh. i agree with all the comments. wheels need to be changed to something dynamic, if this is the XR model, with the 260 hp supposed sport model, then it should have sporty wheels like the concept's. At least as sporty as what the competition is offering, and the current wheels are not that.

you said it yourself with your center of the market comment. DTS represents old school GM think. Let's sell a car that is big on the outside with a big engine and market it for a real high price and make a good margin on it. This works in practice, until the second year of the model comes around and all of a sudden value of the model has plummetted since everyone really wants a true luxury full-size sedan and they go over to MB, BMW, Audi, Jaguar, Lexus who will offer something with real technological achievements. Luxury buyers are either well researched or trying to buy into the idea of luxury, and so they go for something with lesser image, but they're uninformed so they don't know that. Cadillac needs to concentrate on profit, image, pricing, value, technology, style, leadership. DTS does none of these well. In fact I believe a lot of what we're seeing from DTS sales improvements is fleets. I'm sure it drives real well and is comfortable, that's why it belongs as a Buick.