Camino LS6

Actually, it doesn't. V8 cars are a rare commodity already, and truck sales are way down, so the V8 is no real obstacle to increasing fuel economy fleetwide. Now, the V6 is another story. It really needs to do better, because it is such a large part of the market right now. And it often makes V8 numbers for MPG. That can't continue.

Trucks needing 8s is a given, beyond the half tons no 6 will cut it. That said, a complete polarizing of 4s and 8s can't cover everything. Sixes will still be needed in certain applications. But I think those applications are far fewer than in the recent past.

Very nice. A bit more traditional than the red one. It's the balance of the modifications on the red one that have me looking for your posts just to look at it again. Whoever did that car got it so right that it's scary. Thanks for the link BTW, I'll be checking it out.

I suspect that timing will be the critical factor here. Unfortunately, GM is notoriously bad when it comes to timing product effectively.

Not so. The V6 is currently the fat middle of the market, so any meaningful progress on CAFE needs to take place there. Even if you were to eliminate the V8 from all cars, the effect would be minimal - so the V8 is not a valid place to look for CAFE gains at this point.

<--------- grabs pitchfork and torch.

I never said that the V6 should be abandoned, only that its use be tempered. I know that mileage is calculated differently for CAFE purposes, but the requirements are progressive going forward and more headroom underneath the limits can only be a good thing. My premise here is that so many cars are equipped with relatively thirsty v6s that offer little or no benefit to their owners. If they were to be replaced with a very good 4cyl, no apprecciable loss would appear. Further, there are so many such cars on the market that huge reductions in consumption could be realized. Given the nature of such cars and their buyers, I doubt that many would notice the change except when they fill up. A large enough trend in this direction could then allow the manufacturers to broaden the range of their powerplant offerings in cars that are best optimized with a V6 or V8. More choice, less fuel consumption, and all the power we want. Everyone wins.

Your sig pic is driving me crazy! It has to be the finest-looking '59 Camino I've ever seen, and the color is pure perfection. Where did you find that pic?

Anything small in the late 70s and early 80s was pure crap. The rest of the cars were just ok at best. In the 70s, anything from Japan was purchased either because it 1) was cheap as hell to buy or 2) was cheap as hell to fuel. The cars themselves were very basic, low quality,rust -prone, slow, weak-sructured pieces of utter crap that people literally laughed at. By the mid 80s, they were several orders of magnitude better cars. However, they were still prone to extensive rust and the gradual failure of most electrical components. Japanese cars never really were worth a crap until the late 80s. By that time, Detroit had shot itself in both feet... several times. I see the late 70's and 80s this way: Japan had no place to go but up, and Detroit had no place to go but down. A sad set of circumstances.

An El Camino, of course!

Hurricanes aren't usually too awful when they hit here, but I'd rather not experience a cat4 or cat5. They often spawn tornados, and I've got no desire to be near one of those things. Earthquakes that have happened here are tiny, and most people can sleep through them. But. They say that we here on the east coast are way overdue for a big quake. If that happens, the destruction will look like all of the big California Quakes combined. Nothing here is built with quakes in mind. I think I can handle most natural disasters without being freaked out too badly. Except a wildfire. I visited the Oakland Hills in California right after the big firestorm there and it was a truly terrifying thing to see all of that destruction. A wildfire would scare the crap out of me. Ditto a volcanic eruption of any real size.

You do nice work!

Terrible case of moron. He got his appliances all mixed up.

Wow. Crazy.

Bad link, 68.

The car would have better manners overall with a lighter 4 cyl. up front.

Z, you should check out my comments in the most recent Camaro thread. :AH-HA_wink: http://www.cheersandgears.com/forums/index...=25809&st=0

I wouldn't call the V6 obsolete, but it has always been a compromised powerplant. Right now, it is the heart of the market, and what better place to look for CAFE gains?

In a word: yes.

We'd need real numbers to flesh this out, but I feel confident that the idea is sound.

No, apples and oranges, for two reasons. 1. The V6s that make V8 power don't have much , if any MPG advantage over the V8. 2. So few V8s are used outside of truck-based vehicles that there is little to gain there.

I could be wrong, but it seems to me that a 4cyl and V6 with the same power levels differ far more in MPG than a V6 and a V8 with the same power would. I just see huge gains to be made with this idea.

Think of it this way: Let's say that 7 million cars/trucks are built each year with a V6. What if a 4 could do the job as well or better in 3 million of those? See my thinking?

Some do, true. But a vast number are just engines which are too heavy for their application in cars that might even perform better with a hot 4. In other words, in many cars a V6 is just a complete waste. I'm not saying that all V6s should go away, just that their application make more sense. V6s make up a HUGE proportion of all cars sold here, I think that need not be in a majority of cases.

With many four-cylinder cars now making really big power, and V6s having mpg like V8s without the power, couldn't the automakers dispense with many of the V6 applications? Might that not create an efficiency situation that would allow for V8 cars to fit more easily under the new CAFE regs while keeping the formerly V6-powered cars at similar power levels while dramatically increasing the CAFE numbers? Just a thought.