Camino LS6

So Hot!

Rest assured, there will be a whole host of versions of the Camaro. Factory and tuner. I won't know which flavor appeals to me most for quite some time, I suspect.

Man, I'd be so unhappy with either choice it isn't funny. If I had to choose, the G8 would win hands down. I would never compare the two, however.

Certain vehicles can justify a manual option, and the G8 is one of them. The Challenger is another. The thing is, buyers who opt for the V6 are trying to get the look without the price. So, the take rate on a manual in V6 cars is harder to justify. For me, lack of a V8 or a manual is a dealbreaker - that's not the case for most V6 buyers. The Challenger V6s will sell on style alone.

When will a GXP be available? When will the manual be available? What will the color choices be? It's a short list. Otherwise, all decisions about what to order will be easy.

It would be the most worthy lineup of all of GM's brands for me. I would be a near-exclusive Pontiac customer as long as this product mix existed. Very little, other than my work truck, would tempt me away.

Fortunately, I don't need a tour guide for Philly.

Electric cars will always be bit players, concentrated in population centers. As such, they are a fine thing to have in the mix. However, their capabilities are limited and they will not be the dominant powertrain. A wide array of powertrains and fuels is the answer, never again should we have an economy based on a single commodity.

Jimmy John's is legend. Tom Mix Death Car, anyone? :AH-HA_wink:

Late 2009 as a 2010 MY.

We've covered this ground before, but the power and price were just fine (even on the 04s). Dealer misconduct certainly impacted the launch in a negative way, as did distribution mistakes. The Mustang had only a minor impact and didn't hasten the end of the run as the GTO was meant to be a 3 year run from the start. As Lutz has said, the biggest mistake with the GTO was not getting it here when the design was fresh and the platform still had a decent run ahead of it. By the time we got the GTO, the VE was well on its way. If the GTO had arrived when the Monaro did, it would have enjoyed a unique place in the market and its styling would have been more in sync with the times. The approach with VE is much better, though still a bit later than optimal. Even so, the GTO has engendered an extremely loyal following among owners. Most GTOs are cared for obsessively, and spend time at gatherings with other enthusiastic owners. There is a huge well of goodwill toward Holden, Pontiac, and GM in general - because of the GTO. The owners love their cars, and are a ready base for G8 sales. Add the fact that every GTO was essentially a bonus sale over the Monaro business case, and the GTO has been a huge net positive for GM.

I would still prefer a fully fixed roof a la the concept, but that one caveat aside, beautiful job GM! This is now the smallest car I love.

We have become a nation of lazy wimps - the rest of the world still knows how to drive a manual.

I couldn't disagree more, the 2004-06 GTO was exactly what a GTO should be in the context of the times. If GMNA hadn't dropped the ball on RWD cars, it might have more distinctly Pontiac. However, given what GMNA had done to Pontiac, we might have gotten something much less GTO than what we did. The Holden-sourced car raised the bar for all of GM, not just Pontiac. And that was something desperately needed.

I can sympathise.

Microscopic.

You're kidding. I'd rather have a Camry, and I think you know how I feel about that car.

Multiple personality disorder on wheels, a mishmash of tired cues and bizzarre details wrapped in a lumpy envelope. The only thing I like about this thing is the interesting cutline of the hood.

True. An Avalon is is really disgusting - even for a Toyota. It's just a "wide load" version of Camry, which gives it some of the worst proportions in the market. The car manages to be bland and ugly all at once.

Zeta, and by extension the G8, are absolutely perfect for me in size and configuration. This is the sort of car I will always want to buy. Town cars and Avalons alike need not apply.

Does anyone still care what Europeans think?

At that price, I'll brew my own fuel.

I hate small cars, and that won't change because some myopic legislators have their panties in a bunch. I will never buy some little POS just because some twit in DC thinks I should. There will be no debate, If what I want isn't on the market I'll just buy older cars.

Excellent.

Looks like a LWB zeta to me. With better sheetmetal.