Robert Hall

What about the Sunfire? G5? Montana? Torrent? Those were arguably Chevy rebadges...the Solstice (and late GTO) were the first really unique Pontiac (though it now has a Saturn sibling) since the Fiero..the rest of their models have been largely variations on their platform mates from other GM brands with different plastic and different sheetmetal..

So? Pontiac needs to build cars that will appeal to buyers that were born in the '70s and later, not the old folks that were buying cars back then.. Whatever... most Pontiacs built the last 2 decades have been slightly modified Chevys/Oldses/Buicks..so I don't see the difference, esp. since Holdens aren't sold in the US.

I forgot Buick did bring the V6 to the LeSabre in the mid '70s. The Dodge and Plymouth would be the R-body St Regis and Grand Fury. Before the R-bodies, though, it must have been in the '60s..I couldn't imagine that the battleship C-bodies of '69-73 and '74-78 had 6-cyl versions.. the Ford and Merc years sound right...hard to believe, but that means that the full-size Mercury has now been V8 only for over 40 years.

I'm guessing Town Car, Lexus LS460 (the Q45 hasn't been sold in the US for a couple of years), and the Maybach 62.

Maybe it's that GM's NA designers have been constrained by bean counters for too long...i.e. make it cheap, average and bland so it will sell to Avis. GM NA has been hurt by 20+ years of cheap, plastic ugly interiors..

Interesting this discussion about Holden. I didn't realize Holden (and Opel) were considered 'subsidiaries' of GM...I thought they were just brands within the larger whole of GM, like Chevrolet, Cadillac, etc. GM's NA brands at one time were divisions with semi-autonomy and extensive design and engineering groups (and division-specific engines, etc) somewhat separate from the whole, but aren't they today really just marketing organizations within a single, larger entity?

My family's place in eastern Ohio is like that ...150 acres up in a heavily wooded valley, two 10 acre ponds, can't see the neighbors, 5 miles from the nearest town (250 people), 20 miles from the nearest Wal-Mart, 50 miles from the nearest Starbucks, about 2 hrs from the nearest big city (about equal distance to Cleveland, Columbus, Pittsburgh). I enjoyed living there as a kid, but it's way too isolated for my tastes...fun to go spend a few weekends a year there, though. Very quiet...the deer will come right up to the back deck, in the summer, you can sit out on the back deck or front porch and listen to the crickets, birds, etc.

What is the largest domestic car offered in NA today, by length? (not including limos) What is the largest Japanese car offered in NA today, by length? (not including limos) What is the largest European car offered in NA today, by length? (not including limos)

When did Chevy, Buick, Olds, and Pontiac each LAST offer a full-size (RWD B-body) model with a 6-cylinder, prior to the 1977 downsizing? When did Ford and Mercury each LAST offer a full-size (RWD) model with a 6-cylinder? When did Chrysler, Dodge and Plymouth each LAST offer a full-size (RWD) model with a 6-cylinder ?

I wonder how much this beastie weighs.. I'd like to see Chevy have a Silverado SS, with the 500hp Z06 engine. And even better, a Suburban SS.

They've been owned by GM for 76 years, though...not like Saab, which GM has owned for less than 20 years...

Interesting list... not sure about the Fiero and SL2 (what is that--a 2dr Saturn?). I'd put the last of the 4th gen F-bodies on there--like the Camaro SS).

Interesting...I use Conoco 85, never noticed if they have the Top Tier seal..

I'd call it a 4x4. SUV to me implies a wagon for the suburbs (Explorer, Tahoe, etc)..

Maybe..but a small Caddy crossover would make sense in the US to compete with the X3, RDX, GLK, LR2...

I saw a rusty gray '60s Fiat 500 and a green w/ white top Riley Elf yesterday... I've seen the Riley around for the last 5 years or so, but never seen the Fiat..

I couldn't imagine choosing the W-body GP (ancient platform, 4spd auto, FWD, wierd styling) over the G8 (modern platform, RWD, IRS, clean styling, 6-spd manual)... but to each their own, I guess...

I wouldn't consider the SRX 'too small'..more than big enough...I wouldn't want an SUV any larger than that. Cadillac's planning a smaller X3 competitor, aren't they? (BRX?).

Sounds like a great summer plan... I want to go to Europe and stay for a couple of months or so sometime...in 6 trips to Europe, I've never stayed more than 2 weeks at a time.. I'm going to Hawaii (Maui) for a week for Easter, leaving tommorow, coming back next Tuesday. I've got a few short trips (long weekends) planned---Memorial Day in Ohio with family, Napa Valley for my birthday at the end of June, Chicago at the end of July for the Crossroads Guitar Festival. I'm also taking a week in mid July, probably going to take an Alaska cruise. I've got a few car shows planned to attend, incl. the Denver Concours de Elegance in June, the 6th year in a row I've gone there with my friends in the NSX club..I'll be volunteering to help set up and coordinate parking. I'm also going to a track day with the BMW club in May.

Ok...that paint scheme works aroung Oct 31, but the rest of the year.... they did a similar paint scheme on a Harley-Davidson Super Duty a few years ago, IIRC... hideous.

Maybe GM could sell them the plant that builds the 3800 and the engine tooling... Toyota could claim a pushrod V6 is a new 'innovation'...

Looks good..subtle changes to the front...I really like that shade of green, reminds me of the Orvis edition on the 1st gen model.

Yes, and hopefully the G8 will help continue to build Pontiac's performance credibility...FWD rental cars just don't cut it.

The GNX was a neat car...not sure if I would pay 100 large for one, though.. I'd much rather have this Turbo that's on ebay for $70k..

Wherever you go, there you are. Screw you guys, I'm outta here. Captain Obvious strikes again. His elevator doesn't reach the top floor.