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    GM Plans On Importing CT6 Plug-In Hybrid from China


    • The Buick Envision isn't the only vehicle being exported from China

    General Motors has plans to import a second vehicle from China to the U.S. It's not another Buick, but the new Cadillac CT6 Plug-In Hybrid.

     

    Bloomberg spoke with Cadillac’s chief marketing officer, Uwe Ellinghaus who revealed that the plug-in version would only be built in China. The standard CT6 would be built in the U.S. Why build the CT6 Plug-In Hybrid in China? GM believes with government incentives that encourage people and businesses to buy plug-in hybrids, the market for CT6 Plug-In Hybrid will be much higher.

     

    “That will be the largest market for electrified vehicles. The next generation of fuel-economy rules in China will be quite stringent at the end of this decade and into the next,” said GM President Dan Ammann.

     

    Also, if GM was to build the CT6 Plug-In Hybrid here and import it to China, they would be facing heavy import taxes. Hence, it makes sense for Cadillac to build the hybrid in China and export to the U.S.

     

    The first GM vehicle that will be imported from China, the Buick Envision made its debut last week at the Detroit Auto Show.

     

    Source: Bloomberg

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    This does not bother me and I think it will work well for GM. Eventually I hope that sales get to the point where they can justify building them here.

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    The first *GM vehicle to be imported from China will be the Buick Envision.  The Volvo S60 Inscription is already here and is imported from China.

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    I dunno guys. I love the CT6.  I feel that luxury cars are one of the few cars even that we should expect to represent domestic manufacturing consistently all the time. 

     

    I'm okay with them building the CT6 for local consumption in other markets. Hell, that makes for an intelligent business case. 

     

    But if I had the coin, I'd vote powerfully and not get a plug-in CT6. And I thought there were competitive synergies with building Voltec based vehicles together in the same facility. Clearly, it isn't so. In fact, I want the plug-in to fail in North America, because I simply do not believe consumers of $90,000 plus flagship vehicles should pay for a Chinese made car from an American brand.

     

    I also don't like Audi for building their next North American facility in Mexico for its most profitable models. I just find all this off-shoring appalling. 

     

    And once you lose production, it's gone forever. Part of the blame has to be the noncompetitive organized labour. It's troubling to see them trade away much needed production of vehicles at home in exchange for some meager increases in job security and the production of vehicles that can only succeed in good times with low fuel prices combined. Basically, I think it was so short-sighted to allow production to be off-shored.

     

    Worst case scenario is to see just like the drug discovery industry is see the entire design, development and manufacturing of the cars themselves go along with them out of North America. 

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    A Cadillac sold in the USA, made in China is sad.  I think this is the beginning of the slippery slope.  Envision and CT6, then in a few years it could be the Regal and LaCrosse, etc.  Once they start producing cars on the cheap in China they'll keep it going if they can get away with selling them.   I would not buy a Chinese made car.

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    A Cadillac sold in the USA, made in China is sad.  I think this is the beginning of the slippery slope.  Envision and CT6, then in a few years it could be the Regal and LaCrosse, etc.  Once they start producing cars on the cheap in China they'll keep it going if they can get away with selling them.   I would not buy a Chinese made car.

    But I bet just about everything else you own is made in China. Love how the line is drawn because it is the company you DON'T prefer. Given that Benz has a Chinese facility or two, let me ask you a question. Say you had to move to China (call it job related) and you want to buy a new Benz there that you really like (a long wheelbase E-Class is made there) and that it happens to be made there. Would you buy it?

    Edited by surreal1272
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    A Cadillac sold in the USA, made in China is sad.  I think this is the beginning of the slippery slope.  Envision and CT6, then in a few years it could be the Regal and LaCrosse, etc.  Once they start producing cars on the cheap in China they'll keep it going if they can get away with selling them.   I would not buy a Chinese made car.

     

    You would't buy a Cadillac build by Mercedes in the S-class factory, so I don't know what the big difference is to you....

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    A Cadillac sold in the USA, made in China is sad.  I think this is the beginning of the slippery slope.  Envision and CT6, then in a few years it could be the Regal and LaCrosse, etc.  Once they start producing cars on the cheap in China they'll keep it going if they can get away with selling them.   I would not buy a Chinese made car.

     

     

    LMFAO.. U won't buy an AMERICAN CAR.. and if U did.. U'd put it down because it wasn't German..

     

    Its all laughable since U go out of your way to support a company only builds 2.. of its 17 vehicles in the United States. Ironically the S-Classes we see could possibly be assembled in India.. not just Sindelfingen, Germany

     

     

    As for the CT6Hybrid.. again.. makes sense. Volume will be low in the segment, especially looking at the competitors Hybrid makes such as the 7Series, S-Class, and Lexus LS Hybrid's sales. GM is smart to utilize its factories. I talked to someone close to the situation and they tell me that this is a situation where there is not profit sharing when they leave the country (China), as it is when they are sold inside.

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    I wouldn't move to China, just as I wouldn't buy a car made in China.  And I owned 2 American cars before the German one.  And before I bought my E-class I also drove a 2010 Genesis 4.6, 2010 CTS and 2010 or 11 MKZ.   The MKZ was obviously the worst car, felt like driving a Fusion, I did like the V8 aspect of the Genesis, but it was just too boring of a car, and the CTS just didn't have enough power form the 3.6, unless it was at 5,000 rpm.  So I didn't just default to a German car.  But I liked the E-class the best.

     

    I wonder how many cars GM decides to make in China and import.  This is the 2nd one, what if there is a 3rd, 4th, or 5th?

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    As explained in this article and the Envision ones, it's based on where the car will sell the most copies. They're only planning on selling 60k Envisions here, they sold 174k in China in 2015. The CT6 PHEV will likely be very low volume in the US, larger in China, but still relatively small. Makes sense to only have one production line for such a low volume vehicle.

    I expect Regal will move out of north America too eventually, but I could see that going back to Germany where they need the volume to fill the factory capacity. The Chinese bought nearly 100k Regals last year.

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    So if the CTS has more sales in China than in the USA, should they move all CTS production to China as well?  I get why they are doing it with the Envision, they need a crossover yesterday and this is the fastest way to do it.  As far as the CT6 goes, they might sell 20 plug in hybrids a month, so I get not wanting factory tooling for that.  I just think if it works here, what is to top GM for building every Cruze in China and shipping it here?  Once you go down that road it is hard to turn back.

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    I wouldn't move to China, just as I wouldn't buy a car made in China.  And I owned 2 American cars before the German one.  And before I bought my E-class I also drove a 2010 Genesis 4.6, 2010 CTS and 2010 or 11 MKZ.   The MKZ was obviously the worst car, felt like driving a Fusion, I did like the V8 aspect of the Genesis, but it was just too boring of a car, and the CTS just didn't have enough power form the 3.6, unless it was at 5,000 rpm.  So I didn't just default to a German car.  But I liked the E-class the best.

     

    I wonder how many cars GM decides to make in China and import.  This is the 2nd one, what if there is a 3rd, 4th, or 5th?

    You didn't answer my question. The key phase there was "if you HAD to move to China" and you side step that completely. That pretty much answers my question though. Thanks. :thumbsup:

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    So if the CTS has more sales in China than in the USA, should they move all CTS production to China as well?  I get why they are doing it with the Envision, they need a crossover yesterday and this is the fastest way to do it.  As far as the CT6 goes, they might sell 20 plug in hybrids a month, so I get not wanting factory tooling for that.  I just think if it works here, what is to top GM for building every Cruze in China and shipping it here?  Once you go down that road it is hard to turn back.

    You seem to lack a certain fundamental understanding of world economics. 

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    So if the CTS has more sales in China than in the USA, should they move all CTS production to China as well?

    IMO.. and to spite the American workers who go off and buy Foreign vehicles built by foreign labor.. I'd say YEAH.. Eff the American worker. They reap what they sow. U want GM and Ford to build exclusively in America.. then everyone in the American population needs to shun the Foreign makers and buy strictly GM and Ford, or at the very least.. only vehicle by Foreign companies made right here in the U.S. U can not give GM $h! for importing two vehicles, one very low volume, and not give Toyota $h! for importing the 100K+ Annual Prius from Japan. China or Japan.. same difference to me; feeding a mouth and putting food on a table that isn't AMERICAN

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    So if the CTS has more sales in China than in the USA, should they move all CTS production to China as well?  I get why they are doing it with the Envision, they need a crossover yesterday and this is the fastest way to do it.  As far as the CT6 goes, they might sell 20 plug in hybrids a month, so I get not wanting factory tooling for that.  I just think if it works here, what is to top GM for building every Cruze in China and shipping it here?  Once you go down that road it is hard to turn back.

     

    How do you walk around at work without bumping into things? Your vision is so narrow. 

     

    The CTS is built on the same production line as the ATS and Camaro.  Look at the total volume for those cars and that is why they won't move it to China.   The Envision doesn't share a platform with anything currently built in the US (I'm told it will be so different from the Terrain and 'Nox, that even sharing with them is still a question mark for GM).  The Regal would make sense to move to Germany because 1) Volumes are low. 2) Opel could use the extra production volume. 3) The Oshwa plant already has trouble making enough Chevy Equinoxes so freeing up space from Regal would allow greater 'Nox production. 4) It would cut Regal production plants from 3 to 2.

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    If I had to live in China, no question I would buy the Cadillac made in China.

     

    I'd be the only way.

     

    But what we know is that the hamtramck plant will also build the Bolt. The batteries are coming from LG Chem from South Korea anyways.

     

    But...different markets have different needs at some levels. I object to any Cadillac flagship iteration being assembled in China to sell in America not because the product won't be up to the quality.

     

    I fear that people looking at moroney - and Cadillac is a whole should not put any reasons for people to be belligerent towards the cars it makes, especially a flagship product (even as a placeholder), because Cadillac is really going for it. 

     

    Or Cadillac can hedge their bets, and "fire" any customers that were looking to excuse themselves of excellent product because of bounded rationality and loyalty.

     

    The difference is, that we auto enthusiasts know the score. It makes utter absolute sense for Cadillac to source the car from where it'll sell most. Heck, Ford would've done that for the new Taurus, but probably didn't want the test the "Made in China" waters yet - or didn't want to be the first.

     

    Cadillac will have a hell of a time trying to get people to empathize with them if they nitpick against the place of origin of the CT6 plug-in. But because I do not see the value (the intangible ability to fully claim that the vehicle is fully American, the height of luxury built by Americans, for Americans) being delivered through this arguably wise financial decision... I have to say I would not buy the plug-in.

     

    I'd surely get the 3.0TT Platinum this, check box that, sign here please, Thank you Thursday... thank you.

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    I just think once you build 2 cars in China, it is easy to build 3 or 4, and then they are going down that road.

     

    Johan told Car and Driver that they are working on a 4.2 liter bi-turbo V8 with upper 400s horsepower for the CT6.  They need that ASAP, and I'd actually like to see them put that in the CTS V-sport and ATS-V.  Then the 3.0 TT V6 can be the mid-level engine in the CTS and ATS, and the 2.0T would be the base engine.  Then you don't really need the 3.6 V6 anymore, and Cadillac sedans would be all turbo.  

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    I thinking that the HP rating he gave us was buckus. Why building a turbo 4.2l v8 with 460+ when the LF4 already boasts almost 470hp with a smaller displacement. I think this engine will be in the 500 range.

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    I thinking that the HP rating he gave us was buckus. Why building a turbo 4.2l v8 with 460+ when the LF4 already boasts almost 470hp with a smaller displacement. I think this engine will be in the 500 range.

    I agree, I think he was just blowing smoke for now and expect the twin turbo V8 to be near 600HP when it comes out, no less than 550HP.

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    This sounds like it is a model turbo V8 and such an engine does have a place in the line-up in base trim.  That doesn't mean it can't be tuned up higher from there.

     

    Based on the Hp/L Cadillac is getting out of the 3.6, the 4.2 should be in the 540 range when maxed out. I have a suspicion that the number will be 500... exactly. 500 has been a magical number for Cadillac before. 

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    I think the car will be an incredible achievement in technical aspects.

     

    But I think the car does not communicate its purpose so well. I just look at this as another luxury bruiser. But in reality it is a full sized luxury Corvette. So people may still try to gauge the conventional aspects of the car - such as interior quality and overall styling over the dynamic aspects.

     

    And really, the Buick Lacrosse, no, just even the Chevy Impala are excellent enough driving large sedans.

     

    Even ConsumerReport's resident Mercedes-lover, the guy with slickster hair, always wears a tasteful sweater and accent akined the driving dynamics of the Impala to (If I recall correctly) an current gen E-Class. That's good enough in my books, to say the least.

     

    So how much more are people really willing to pay for a better driving car... that is up in the question books. Because the traditional "driver's cars" have regressed in that respect to focus on overall luxury.

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    I think the car will be an incredible achievement in technical aspects.

     

    But I think the car does not communicate its purpose so well. I just look at this as another luxury bruiser. But in reality it is a full sized luxury Corvette. So people may still try to gauge the conventional aspects of the car - such as interior quality and overall styling over the dynamic aspects.

     

    And really, the Buick Lacrosse, no, just even the Chevy Impala are excellent enough driving large sedans.

     

    Even ConsumerReport's resident Mercedes-lover, the guy with slickster hair, always wears a tasteful sweater and accent akined the driving dynamics of the Impala to (If I recall correctly) an current gen E-Class. That's good enough in my books, to say the least.

     

    So how much more are people really willing to pay for a better driving car... that is up in the question books. Because the traditional "driver's cars" have regressed in that respect to focus on overall luxury.

     

     

     

    I've been bombarded with this comparison before.. many times. My Impala is constantly thought to be a luxury car. It is constantly challenged by Es and 5s.. GSs and even ugly Equus. Each on have been seriously taken aback.. or had their asses busted.

     

    The Driving capabilities of Epsilon II are just too great to ignore. U just can't do it. Even without MRC they are hands down some of the, if not the, best handling FWD cars on the market. I don't kno what the hell GM was thinking when engineering these vehicles but the result was my Impala can out-handle many RWD tuned application no issue. Even more scary is that the Regal GS and Malibu LTZ... is even more competent. 

     

    To the CT6; I believe that when the embargo lifts next week and U start seeing test drives of the vehicle we will be in awe. If all Cadillac did was transfer the ability of the CTS over to this car it would still be best in class handling.. couple in the size being as large as any of the German 3, with even more tuned, technological capabilities, such as RW-Steering (I will adapt to RWS) and U have a game change.. BEFORE the CT7 and 8 even arrive. That's something. 

     

    I am seriously hoping reviewers, when testing and doing comparos, will put aside their prejudice and preconceived notions about the car not being an "S-Class competitor.." IT IS. Again in the same way the Panamera and XJ are.. and to an extent the LS460.. this car is an S-Class competitor BEFORE the actual S-Class competitor arrives. That's saying something. The question to ponder is; If this is 95% of what the S-Class is supposed to be.. what the EFF does Cadillac have in mind for the CT8?

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    I think the car will be an incredible achievement in technical aspects.

     

    But I think the car does not communicate its purpose so well. I just look at this as another luxury bruiser. But in reality it is a full sized luxury Corvette. So people may still try to gauge the conventional aspects of the car - such as interior quality and overall styling over the dynamic aspects.

     

    And really, the Buick Lacrosse, no, just even the Chevy Impala are excellent enough driving large sedans.

     

    Even ConsumerReport's resident Mercedes-lover, the guy with slickster hair, always wears a tasteful sweater and accent akined the driving dynamics of the Impala to (If I recall correctly) an current gen E-Class. That's good enough in my books, to say the least.

     

     

    So how much more are people really willing to pay for a better driving car... that is up in the question books. Because the traditional "driver's cars" have regressed in that respect to focus on overall luxury.

     

    A lot of luxury cars sell well, and the luxury market overall seems to be growing.  People pay $85k for a Cadillac version of the Tahoe, just like people will pay $40k for a BMW 3-series that is the same size a a $20,000 Mazda 3.  I think there are always people willing to pay more money for more performance or more luxury.  A Camaro can do 90% of what a Corvette can do, but they still sell 30,000 Corvettes a year.

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    I'm not so sure the CT6 will be a game changer, or even do a whole lot to steal from the Germans or Lexus.  But I am quite interested to read the reviews and see the test drive videos, and see the comparisons.

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      But could there be a possibility of Opel or Vauxhall vehicles being sold here? It would not be surprising if there isn’t talk about this at PSA Group’s HQ. But there is a slight complication to this idea. As part of the sale, PSA Group cannot sell any Opel vehicles developed by GM anywhere in various markets outside of Europe (China and U.S. for example) until they transition to PSA platforms. That means a number of models such as the Astra, Insignia, and Mokka are out of the question for the time being. If Opel was chosen to be one of the brands PSA would sell in the U.S., they might not have a full line of vehicles to sell due to this clause.
      3: What does the future hold for Buick and Holden?
      If there are some losers from the sale of Opel, it has to Buick and Holden. Buick has found some success with Opel products as the Encore (rebadged Mokka) has become one the best-selling models for the brand. Holden is getting a shot in the arm as the Astra will hopefully help their fortunes in the compact space, and the new Commodore (rebadged Insignia) has a tough task ahead of it with living up to an iconic name. For the time being, Opel will continue supplying models to both brands. It is what happens in the future that many are concerned about.
      During the Geneva Motor Show, GM President Dan Ammann said something very interest to Australian journalists about the future of Holden’s products.
      This makes sense as the Astra was only launched and the Commodore is getting ready to go on sale. But I wouldn’t be surprised if talks begin very soon about this very topic. The same talks are likely to begin at Buick soon where they face the same issue for the Regal and Encore. Our hunch is Buick might have the easier time of two. The Encore would continue on since it shares the same platform as the Chevrolet Trax. As for the Regal, it could leave Buick’s lineup once the next-generation model runs its course.
      4: Does GM lose anything with this deal?
      There has been a lot of talk about how much money will be freed up from the sale of Opel/Vauxhall for GM, along with making a bit more profit. But it comes at a cost that could hurt GM down the road. The recent crop of compact and midsize sedans from GM owe a lot to Opel’s engineering knowledge. Vehicles that excel in driving dynamics and fuel economy are worth their weight in gold when it comes to the European marketplace. As we know, one part of why GM went into bankruptcy was the lack of competitive small and midsize cars that got good fuel economy. Opel would prove to be GM’s savior with this key knowledge.
      Right now, compacts and midsize sedans aren’t selling as consumers are directing their attention to crossovers and SUVs. This is due in part to lower gas prices. But sooner or later, the price of gas will go back up and cause many to go back to smaller vehicles. With talk about GM scaling back on their small and midsize car lineup, this decision could have consequences down the road. Plus with Opel out of the picture, GM doesn’t have someone it can rely on to get these models back to the forefront. We can hope GM’s North American office has learned some stuff when working with their European counterparts.

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    • By William Maley
      General Motors seems being in a cutting mood as it drives to improve its profit margins and stock price. Last week saw the sale of Opel and Vauxhall to PSA Group and it's only the beginning said GM CEO Mary Barra.
      Automotive News reports that GM is considering reducing investments in North American cars and "select" international markets according to a chart that was shared during a conference call with analysts last week. The chart says these two earned a spot on the chopping block due to low profit potential and weak strength in franchises.
      "There's a little bit more work that we're doing in the international markets. Our overall philosophy is that every country, every market segment has to earn its cost of capital," Barra said on the conference call. 
      Barra and GM President Dan Ammann declined to go into details about these plans.
      GM has already made significant changes in terms of their international operations by ending or reducing operations Australia, Indonesia, Russia, and Thailand. The automaker has also scaled back plans in India. The comments made during the call suggest more cuts could take place here and possibly elsewhere.
      As for 'reducing investments in North American cars', this likely means GM is taking a hard look at various segments in passenger car segment. With consumers trending towards utility vehicles and trucks, sales of passenger cars have been falling precipitously. As of March 1st, dealers had four month's worth of inventory of cars, compared to an 81-day supply for light trucks and less than 60-days for full-size SUVs. GM could walk away from certain segments such as compacts or full-size sedans, or delay investments in certain models.
      These moves will allow GM to funnel money into models that make more money, and returning capital to shareholders.
      "That's an immediate opportunity for us to reward shareholders without changing the risk profile of the company or our ability to manage through a downturn," GM CFO Chuck Stevens said.
      Analysts are mixed on GM's plans.
      "It takes a lot of discipline to shift away from a volume-is-king kind of mentality," she said. "In the end, that's going to make a better GM -- a longer-standing company that's not only more profitable but more relevant," said Rebecca Lindland, a senior analyst with Kelley Blue Book to Automotive News.
      John Murphy, an analyst with Bank of America Merrill Lynch isn't so sure about this plan.
      "It appears that GM's recent decision-making has become much more short-term-focused and, in our opinion, could create challenges for the company in the coming years," Murphy wrote in a report.
      Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required)

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