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    Rumorpile: Fiat Chrysler Automobiles Put A Number of Products On Delay


    • A Number Of FCA Vehicles Are Going On the Delayed List

    What is going on Fiat Chrysler Automobiles? Reuters reports that a number of new and redesigned vehicles have been pushed back as the company searches for a new partner. The delays allow FCA to save billions of dollars in investment.

     

    Suppliers who have seen say at least 12 future vehicle programs from Chrysler, Dodge, Jeep, Maserati, and Ram have been delayed. Two of those vehicles, the next Jeep Wrangler and Ram 1500 are reportedly moving to dates later in 2017.

     

    Suppliers say there are a number of reasons as to the delays such as last-minute design and engineering changes - some of which are helping save a fair amount of cash.

     

    FCA declined to comment on the delays, but did say the plans outlined in their latest five-year plan "need to be flexible and fluid, with the potential to add some vehicles, pull some forward and extend the life cycle of others. We look at these programs on a vehicle-by-vehicle basis."

     

    While FCA is delaying a number of vehicles, they are also moving some up. Suppliers tell Reuters that Alfa Romeo may be getting more models on a quicker basis.

     

    Source: Reuters

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    The Ram 1500 and Wrangler are both still doing so well that is makes sense to delay them. The rest are a bit worrying.

     

     

    No.. this was essentially what I was referencing yesterday, but was too lazy to post the article .

     

    Let's be honest.. if this were a certain other company people would be in arms ready to riot. Hell  technically the Cruze is still selling damn well, but let GM push it back another year and bloodshed will follow. 

     

    Not to mention the article clearly states what Sergio is doing.. he is biding time to try and wait for a partner that will enable him to rebadge instead of redesign. GM was the perfect source.. as he could have gotten the K2X platform under the Ram styling. Mary said no.. so now.. I would imagine he is knocking on Mark Field's door. Ford and FCA OR FCA and Nissan/Renault together would make them instantly a single maker larger than GM and VW and on par for Toyota's spot. This would then spawn GM or VW .. or/and Toyota to merge with someone else as well. This is for bragging rights.. its for better positioning and negotiating with suppliers and tax makers.

    Edited by Cmicasa the Great
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    I think part of this is related to the CHerokee's issues.  The Patriot sold almost 11k units last month, the Compass anothr 5k, the CHallenger is having it's best sales ever,  the Charger sales are basically holding pat and the police market will help it out, as said the Wrangler and Ram are doing great.  The only worry IMHO is the dart, though it is on an upward sales swing.  Journey also isn't selling bad and at this point the developement costs are all paid off so I can guarantee they are making decent money and letting the various Jeep models carry the sales crown. 

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    All the quality issues on launch because it was rushed to market.  That happens again and I DO believe FCA will be in trouble. 

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    Segio is an Idiot for putting money into Alfa Romeo if the story is true. That is a dead dog, let it go into the history books and spend the freaking billions on correcting all the poor quality parts that have gone into the current products.

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    This is a sucky situation. Chrysler was already in a position where most of its releases are refreshes (and a few Jeep branded Fiats), and the only major powertrain developments are the hellcat and outsourced 9-speed transmissions that haven't been particularly well received.

     

    While other automakers are debuting new cars, new platforms, and new engines, are we seeing Chrysler dead in the water for the next 18 months? I do not like Marchionne's current approach for "industry consolidation" whatsoever.

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    Well the rwd 8 speeds are really good. There are pentastar v6 changes in the works, what they really need is a new 4 cylinder family. Zf can keep working on the 9 speed.

    Platforms they're actually Okay also.. What else do they need platform wise? Maybe a small/mid truck, but that's about it. The new minivans will be here shortly

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    all of this is inconsequential because the real deal... the truth of the matter... what is being shown here... is that Chrysler, despite the bankruptcy ,is for all intent and purposes are having money issues. They are unable to launch products... new products that are going to take it into the next 10 years without help

    Edited by Cmicasa the Great
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    Well the rwd 8 speeds are really good. There are pentastar v6 changes in the works, what they really need is a new 4 cylinder family. Zf can keep working on the 9 speed.

    Platforms they're actually Okay also.. What else do they need platform wise? Maybe a small/mid truck, but that's about it. The new minivans will be here shortly

     

    The 8 speed trans is outsourced too. ZF doesn't need to work on the 9-speed, Chrysler still needs to tune it properly. Platform-wise, their full size RWD cars are ancient and overweight, their high-volume compact car is floundering and overweight, their new midsize car is quite nice, but also overweight at a time when everyone else is in the process of shedding pounds. 

     

    And the worst hurdle for Chrysler right now is that they DESPERATELY need some competitive 4-cylinder engines, which you mentioned.

     

    I thought they were in a better position financially because Jeep is basically printing money. I hope that the Fiat side of operations isn't becoming a leach.

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    Not surprising, they have no money.  This is why they want to sell.  The Jeep brand has big value and pickups make profit.   Most of their other stuff nothing special and could be a product that is co-developed or badge jobbed from another company.  I don't get how they even stay competitive, they always have dated product.

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    all of this is inconsequential because the real deal... the truth of the matter... what is being shown here... is that Chrysler, despite the bankruptcy ,is for all intent and purposes are having money issues. They are unable to launch products... new products that are going to take it into the next 10 years without help

    That is a stretch.  if ALL of the products were being put off for years, you may have a point.  The fact is the major products are simply months and tweaks and updates to improve them and their quality makes a LOT more sense than the diatribe you just spewed.  IMHO, they are going o have a lo of touble with the new Wrangler.  How do you improve cafe, keep the loyalists happy, and keep the price reasonable.  Same with the Ram, it needs to get lighter and better FE, but sense sales keep falling for the Aluminum F-150, you have to wonder what is he best way to achieve this and i believe this is the true delay for the Ram.  I wonder if the fact the Dart is delayed means that  it's survival may be in question because isn't the Chrysler 100 a new compact sedan based on the same platform?  LXs just ot a major new refresh with updates as extensive under the skin as out, so 4-5 years seems about right there.  Having a refresh, especially one as major as what the LXs just went through for just a ear or 2 makes absolutely no sense, especially when sales are on the rise.  Again, you WANT them to fail so you will see issues everywhere. 

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    Well the rwd 8 speeds are really good. There are pentastar v6 changes in the works, what they really need is a new 4 cylinder family. Zf can keep working on the 9 speed.

    Platforms they're actually Okay also.. What else do they need platform wise? Maybe a small/mid truck, but that's about it. The new minivans will be here shortly

     

    The 8 speed trans is outsourced too. ZF doesn't need to work on the 9-speed, Chrysler still needs to tune it properly. Platform-wise, their full size RWD cars are ancient and overweight, their high-volume compact car is floundering and overweight, their new midsize car is quite nice, but also overweight at a time when everyone else is in the process of shedding pounds. 

     

    And the worst hurdle for Chrysler right now is that they DESPERATELY need some competitive 4-cylinder engines, which you mentioned.

     

    I thought they were in a better position financially because Jeep is basically printing money. I hope that the Fiat side of operations isn't becoming a leach.

     

    I have to disagree on a number of points.  First, the 9 speed is having issues in basically every vehicle it is in, including the TLX and RR Evoque.  Second, look at other actual fullsize platforms and you will see the weight is similar or even heavier compared to the  LXs.  They could improve this issue immensely anyways simply by going aluminum blocks on the Hemi.  in any case sales are up, the cars, especially the Charger Hellcat and Scat Pack, are getting excellent reviews on not only  power, but handling too.  Remember, demand is so high for the Hellcat, which is a VERY profitable product, they had to stop taking orders.  The 200 is selling like gangbusters, never thought I would see them selling over 20k units a month.  Also under MT's real MPG the 200 beats nearly all comers including a lot of cars that "claim" superior FE.  Weight is not an issue here since it is not a sportscar and still gets that FE and drives quite nice.  I also don't think weight is a major issue for the dart, but rather I do agree they need a new family of 4 cylinders, the world engines despite updates , are nealy a decade old.  New 4 cylinders are coming and no delay was mentioned for those, so about 1-1.5 years out.  Also, the 8 speed, at least most iterations for FCA, are built at Chrysler plants under conract from ZF.  It seems like the 9 speed was rushed to markets and I know the 8 spent quite a few years in developement and is wonderful in every application it is in.  My brother's A5 wih the 2.0T matches up beautifull with it.  The 9 speed seems half baked.  Ram and Jeep are certainly the cash cows, but Chrysler and Dodge are also profitable.  Fiat just isn't a good fit here and they have been hit hard by the financial crisis in Europe which sucks.  If Sergio wants a partner, I think Mazda would be great.  They could use skyactive and Mazda could use the Pentastar V6 with their own touches ie, my biggest fault with the 6 has been it's lack of a more lusty engine option.  Heck, they are already going to be making a Miata based roadster. 

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    all of this is inconsequential because the real deal... the truth of the matter... what is being shown here... is that Chrysler, despite the bankruptcy ,is for all intent and purposes are having money issues. They are unable to launch products... new products that are going to take it into the next 10 years without help

    That is a stretch.  if ALL of the products were being put off for years, you may have a point.  The fact is the major products are simply months and tweaks and updates to improve them and their quality makes a LOT more sense than the diatribe you just spewed.  IMHO, they are going o have a lo of touble with the new Wrangler.  How do you improve cafe, keep the loyalists happy, and keep the price reasonable.  Same with the Ram, it needs to get lighter and better FE, but sense sales keep falling for the Aluminum F-150, you have to wonder what is he best way to achieve this and i believe this is the true delay for the Ram.  I wonder if the fact the Dart is delayed means that  it's survival may be in question because isn't the Chrysler 100 a new compact sedan based on the same platform?  LXs just ot a major new refresh with updates as extensive under the skin as out, so 4-5 years seems about right there.  Having a refresh, especially one as major as what the LXs just went through for just a ear or 2 makes absolutely no sense, especially when sales are on the rise.  Again, you WANT them to fail so you will see issues everywhere. 

     

     

     

     

    Your total post is wrong, with exception to one part.. the last sentence.. if they aren't ACTUALLY American... Eff 'em...  :wavey:

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    all of this is inconsequential because the real deal... the truth of the matter... what is being shown here... is that Chrysler, despite the bankruptcy ,is for all intent and purposes are having money issues. They are unable to launch products... new products that are going to take it into the next 10 years without help

    That is a stretch.  if ALL of the products were being put off for years, you may have a point.  The fact is the major products are simply months and tweaks and updates to improve them and their quality makes a LOT more sense than the diatribe you just spewed.  IMHO, they are going o have a lo of touble with the new Wrangler.  How do you improve cafe, keep the loyalists happy, and keep the price reasonable.  Same with the Ram, it needs to get lighter and better FE, but sense sales keep falling for the Aluminum F-150, you have to wonder what is he best way to achieve this and i believe this is the true delay for the Ram.  I wonder if the fact the Dart is delayed means that  it's survival may be in question because isn't the Chrysler 100 a new compact sedan based on the same platform?  LXs just ot a major new refresh with updates as extensive under the skin as out, so 4-5 years seems about right there.  Having a refresh, especially one as major as what the LXs just went through for just a ear or 2 makes absolutely no sense, especially when sales are on the rise.  Again, you WANT them to fail so you will see issues everywhere. 

     

     

     

     

    Your total post is wrong, with exception to one part.. the last sentence.. if they aren't ACTUALLY American... Eff 'em...  :wavey:

     

    My post is 100% correct regardless of where a manufacturer's headquarters is located.  And the last part of your post tells me ALL I need to know about your intentions.  Go back to the GM threads and ruhaha GM in the thread about their criminal actions with the ignition fiasco.......

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    I'm not sure what Mopar was thinking by announcing this. Delaying any new model in a challenging marketplace is not good. The trucks will be fine for now, as will Jeep... and the 200 looks to be making inroads with a fresh platform. But the reality is that the big RWD models need to lose weight and the Hemis need to be upgraded with aluminum blocks and DI.

    Fiat, on the other hand, not so much. I don't mind it as a small-car brand in NA, but it and Alfa Romeo are taking up way too much thought (and likely cash) in the grand scheme of things. And the brand snobbery with Maserati must stop. Follow GM's lead and let the Maser's sedan platform trickle down to make a great new 300/Challenger/'cuda/whatever.

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    Well the rwd 8 speeds are really good. There are pentastar v6 changes in the works, what they really need is a new 4 cylinder family. Zf can keep working on the 9 speed.

    Platforms they're actually Okay also.. What else do they need platform wise? Maybe a small/mid truck, but that's about it. The new minivans will be here shortly

     

    The 8 speed trans is outsourced too. ZF doesn't need to work on the 9-speed, Chrysler still needs to tune it properly. Platform-wise, their full size RWD cars are ancient and overweight, their high-volume compact car is floundering and overweight, their new midsize car is quite nice, but also overweight at a time when everyone else is in the process of shedding pounds. 

     

    And the worst hurdle for Chrysler right now is that they DESPERATELY need some competitive 4-cylinder engines, which you mentioned.

     

    I thought they were in a better position financially because Jeep is basically printing money. I hope that the Fiat side of operations isn't becoming a leach.

     

    I have to disagree on a number of points.  First, the 9 speed is having issues in basically every vehicle it is in, including the TLX and RR Evoque.  Second, look at other actual fullsize platforms and you will see the weight is similar or even heavier compared to the  LXs.  They could improve this issue immensely anyways simply by going aluminum blocks on the Hemi.  in any case sales are up, the cars, especially the Charger Hellcat and Scat Pack, are getting excellent reviews on not only  power, but handling too.  Remember, demand is so high for the Hellcat, which is a VERY profitable product, they had to stop taking orders.  The 200 is selling like gangbusters, never thought I would see them selling over 20k units a month.  Also under MT's real MPG the 200 beats nearly all comers including a lot of cars that "claim" superior FE.  Weight is not an issue here since it is not a sportscar and still gets that FE and drives quite nice.  I also don't think weight is a major issue for the dart, but rather I do agree they need a new family of 4 cylinders, the world engines despite updates , are nealy a decade old.  New 4 cylinders are coming and no delay was mentioned for those, so about 1-1.5 years out.  Also, the 8 speed, at least most iterations for FCA, are built at Chrysler plants under conract from ZF.  It seems like the 9 speed was rushed to markets and I know the 8 spent quite a few years in developement and is wonderful in every application it is in.  My brother's A5 wih the 2.0T matches up beautifull with it.  The 9 speed seems half baked.  Ram and Jeep are certainly the cash cows, but Chrysler and Dodge are also profitable.  Fiat just isn't a good fit here and they have been hit hard by the financial crisis in Europe which sucks.  If Sergio wants a partner, I think Mazda would be great.  They could use skyactive and Mazda could use the Pentastar V6 with their own touches ie, my biggest fault with the 6 has been it's lack of a more lusty engine option.  Heck, they are already going to be making a Miata based roadster. 

     

     

    The problem is from an R&D perspective. Besides the Hellcat, what have they been doing? They released the 3.2L Pentastar in the Cherokee last year and haven't used it in anything else, so it's seeing incredibly limited production. They don't design the transmissions in house was my point about that, which isn't a problem in itself until you look at the lagging engine development. They are far behind the product momentum of the industry, and this latest announcement in combination with merger talks makes it look like Sergio is running blind.

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    I'm not sure what Mopar was thinking by announcing this. Delaying any new model in a challenging marketplace is not good. The trucks will be fine for now, as will Jeep... and the 200 looks to be making inroads with a fresh platform. But the reality is that the big RWD models need to lose weight and the Hemis need to be upgraded with aluminum blocks and DI.

    Fiat, on the other hand, not so much. I don't mind it as a small-car brand in NA, but it and Alfa Romeo are taking up way too much thought (and likely cash) in the grand scheme of things. And the brand snobbery with Maserati must stop. Follow GM's lead and let the Maser's sedan platform trickle down to make a great new 300/Challenger/'cuda/whatever.

    The irony is that current Maser sedan platform is actually based lossel on LX and the tt V6 loosely on the Pentastar.  You are right, they need to let the updates on the Masers trickle down.  In it's current form  LX is a good platform.  It handles well, the steering, amazingly, gets acolades, it rides great, and in reality weight is in line with most RWD cars it's size.  The Hemi is the sticking point, every Hemi below the Hellcat (for now) should have an aluminum block PERIOD.  hat would easily remove weight and improve weight distriburion in one fell swoop.  I also don't want to see the Challenger get smaller because i is unique and not really a Camaro and Mustang competitor, it is MUCH more a grand tourer.  Now, give us a smaller lighter platform and pu a new CUda or Demon on it.  Here is where Alfa could be of use, sharing such a platform.  IMHO, Alfa could be good, just no idea how in hell they fit it in an already crowded hierarchy. 

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    Well the rwd 8 speeds are really good. There are pentastar v6 changes in the works, what they really need is a new 4 cylinder family. Zf can keep working on the 9 speed.

    Platforms they're actually Okay also.. What else do they need platform wise? Maybe a small/mid truck, but that's about it. The new minivans will be here shortly

     

    The 8 speed trans is outsourced too. ZF doesn't need to work on the 9-speed, Chrysler still needs to tune it properly. Platform-wise, their full size RWD cars are ancient and overweight, their high-volume compact car is floundering and overweight, their new midsize car is quite nice, but also overweight at a time when everyone else is in the process of shedding pounds. 

     

    And the worst hurdle for Chrysler right now is that they DESPERATELY need some competitive 4-cylinder engines, which you mentioned.

     

    I thought they were in a better position financially because Jeep is basically printing money. I hope that the Fiat side of operations isn't becoming a leach.

     

    I have to disagree on a number of points.  First, the 9 speed is having issues in basically every vehicle it is in, including the TLX and RR Evoque.  Second, look at other actual fullsize platforms and you will see the weight is similar or even heavier compared to the  LXs.  They could improve this issue immensely anyways simply by going aluminum blocks on the Hemi.  in any case sales are up, the cars, especially the Charger Hellcat and Scat Pack, are getting excellent reviews on not only  power, but handling too.  Remember, demand is so high for the Hellcat, which is a VERY profitable product, they had to stop taking orders.  The 200 is selling like gangbusters, never thought I would see them selling over 20k units a month.  Also under MT's real MPG the 200 beats nearly all comers including a lot of cars that "claim" superior FE.  Weight is not an issue here since it is not a sportscar and still gets that FE and drives quite nice.  I also don't think weight is a major issue for the dart, but rather I do agree they need a new family of 4 cylinders, the world engines despite updates , are nealy a decade old.  New 4 cylinders are coming and no delay was mentioned for those, so about 1-1.5 years out.  Also, the 8 speed, at least most iterations for FCA, are built at Chrysler plants under conract from ZF.  It seems like the 9 speed was rushed to markets and I know the 8 spent quite a few years in developement and is wonderful in every application it is in.  My brother's A5 wih the 2.0T matches up beautifull with it.  The 9 speed seems half baked.  Ram and Jeep are certainly the cash cows, but Chrysler and Dodge are also profitable.  Fiat just isn't a good fit here and they have been hit hard by the financial crisis in Europe which sucks.  If Sergio wants a partner, I think Mazda would be great.  They could use skyactive and Mazda could use the Pentastar V6 with their own touches ie, my biggest fault with the 6 has been it's lack of a more lusty engine option.  Heck, they are already going to be making a Miata based roadster. 

     

     

    The problem is from an R&D perspective. Besides the Hellcat, what have they been doing? They released the 3.2L Pentastar in the Cherokee last year and haven't used it in anything else, so it's seeing incredibly limited production. They don't design the transmissions in house was my point about that, which isn't a problem in itself until you look at the lagging engine development. They are far behind the product momentum of the industry, and this latest announcement in combination with merger talks makes it look like Sergio is running blind.

     

    Their engine lineup isn't particularly that old.  The 5.7 hemi was completely redone in 09, 6.4 was brand new in 11 along with the 3.6 pentastar.  The 2.4 4 was just redone last year.  New Hemis and updated Pentastars with DI are coming, but they are hardly old.  GM's DI 3.6, Ford's 3.5 V6, and Nissans VQ have all been around far longer than any of these and GM's basic V8 architecture which appeared in 1996 in the 97 Vette was only replaced in 2013 on the 2014 Vette. 

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    Well the rwd 8 speeds are really good. There are pentastar v6 changes in the works, what they really need is a new 4 cylinder family. Zf can keep working on the 9 speed.

    Platforms they're actually Okay also.. What else do they need platform wise? Maybe a small/mid truck, but that's about it. The new minivans will be here shortly

     

    The 8 speed trans is outsourced too. ZF doesn't need to work on the 9-speed, Chrysler still needs to tune it properly. Platform-wise, their full size RWD cars are ancient and overweight, their high-volume compact car is floundering and overweight, their new midsize car is quite nice, but also overweight at a time when everyone else is in the process of shedding pounds. 

     

    And the worst hurdle for Chrysler right now is that they DESPERATELY need some competitive 4-cylinder engines, which you mentioned.

     

    I thought they were in a better position financially because Jeep is basically printing money. I hope that the Fiat side of operations isn't becoming a leach.

     

    I have to disagree on a number of points.  First, the 9 speed is having issues in basically every vehicle it is in, including the TLX and RR Evoque.  Second, look at other actual fullsize platforms and you will see the weight is similar or even heavier compared to the  LXs.  They could improve this issue immensely anyways simply by going aluminum blocks on the Hemi.  in any case sales are up, the cars, especially the Charger Hellcat and Scat Pack, are getting excellent reviews on not only  power, but handling too.  Remember, demand is so high for the Hellcat, which is a VERY profitable product, they had to stop taking orders.  The 200 is selling like gangbusters, never thought I would see them selling over 20k units a month.  Also under MT's real MPG the 200 beats nearly all comers including a lot of cars that "claim" superior FE.  Weight is not an issue here since it is not a sportscar and still gets that FE and drives quite nice.  I also don't think weight is a major issue for the dart, but rather I do agree they need a new family of 4 cylinders, the world engines despite updates , are nealy a decade old.  New 4 cylinders are coming and no delay was mentioned for those, so about 1-1.5 years out.  Also, the 8 speed, at least most iterations for FCA, are built at Chrysler plants under conract from ZF.  It seems like the 9 speed was rushed to markets and I know the 8 spent quite a few years in developement and is wonderful in every application it is in.  My brother's A5 wih the 2.0T matches up beautifull with it.  The 9 speed seems half baked.  Ram and Jeep are certainly the cash cows, but Chrysler and Dodge are also profitable.  Fiat just isn't a good fit here and they have been hit hard by the financial crisis in Europe which sucks.  If Sergio wants a partner, I think Mazda would be great.  They could use skyactive and Mazda could use the Pentastar V6 with their own touches ie, my biggest fault with the 6 has been it's lack of a more lusty engine option.  Heck, they are already going to be making a Miata based roadster. 

     

     

    The problem is from an R&D perspective. Besides the Hellcat, what have they been doing? They released the 3.2L Pentastar in the Cherokee last year and haven't used it in anything else, so it's seeing incredibly limited production. They don't design the transmissions in house was my point about that, which isn't a problem in itself until you look at the lagging engine development. They are far behind the product momentum of the industry, and this latest announcement in combination with merger talks makes it look like Sergio is running blind.

     

    Their engine lineup isn't particularly that old.  The 5.7 hemi was completely redone in 09, 6.4 was brand new in 11 along with the 3.6 pentastar.  The 2.4 4 was just redone last year.  New Hemis and updated Pentastars with DI are coming, but they are hardly old.  GM's DI 3.6, Ford's 3.5 V6, and Nissans VQ have all been around far longer than any of these and GM's basic V8 architecture which appeared in 1996 in the 97 Vette was only replaced in 2013 on the 2014 Vette. 

     

     

    Your definition of "redone" is way too flexible. The 5.7L hemi was "completely redone" in 2009 (major exaggeration) but the GM 3.6L is somehow much older? The 3.6L came out in the early/mid 2000s, then was upgraded with VVT in the mid 2000s, then received direct injection in 2007-2008 for 300 hp/270 lb-ft and was overhauled again in 2011 and dubbed the LFX with up to 320 hp/275 lb-ft. Now GM is releasing a brand new 3.6L engine--not a rehash of the last one despite similar displacement--with 335 hp/284 lb-ft.

     

    As for V8s, since the 5.7L hemi, GM has had the 6.2L LS3 and L99, the supercharged LS9 and LSA, and now the Gen 5 V8s: 5.3L, the 6.2L LT1, and the supercharged LT4. The '97 LS1 has almost as little in common with the LS3 as that engine does with the LT1.

     

    Let's look at GM's other new engines since 2012: the 2.5L 4-cylinder with 196 hp, the 2.0T (again, not a rehash of the first gen, despite displacement) with 270 hp/295 lb-ft, the 3.6T V6 in two flavors LF3/LF4 with up to 465 hp/445 lb-ft, and next year debuts a 3.0T in the CT6, a 1.5T and new hybrid system in the Malibu, and a new 1.4T (again, no relation) in the upcoming Cruze.

     

    Chrysler's 2.4L engine might be new-ish and warmed over by Fiat, but it's still one of the worst 4-cylinders on the market, same goes for the 2.0L. The world engines were a failure, adding "multi-air" was putting a bandaid on a broken bone.

    Edited by cp-the-nerd
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    The only valuable parts of this company are Jeep brand, Ram pickups, and minivan.  Maybe Alfa Romeo and Maserati to the right buyer.  VW, Ford, Mazda, GM, Nissan or anyone else can make small sedans and inline fours and V6s.  Jeep is a unique product and brand that other big car companies can't duplicate.  Pick up truck and minivan would fill gaps at VW or Mazda, but don't do much for Toyota or Nissan.

     

    Sergio might want to sell this company in pieces if that is his goal.

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    Gm's 3.6 is currently much older than the pentastar.  That was my point.  YES GM is offering a new 3.6 after what, 15 years of improving on the old one?  The 3.6 Pentastar is ONLY 5 years old and the great thing about it is that even without DI it is fully competitive power and FE wise with others that have DI. The 09 refresh on the 5.7 Hemi was pretty major and was a mojor update to power AND efficiency.  5.7 liters and up to 395 HP and 25 MPG is pretty good.  And yes, you are correct the LS3 is pretty different than the LS1, but still it was way older than the 6.4 is now.  As for all the new engines, look where basically all those turbo motors are going, Cadillac.  There is a reason for that as they are in a different league than Chrysler, Dodge, or Chevy and it is VERY important to keep them fresh and even more important they aren't sharing too much with the "lesser" brands.   Also, the 2.4 anyways is NOWHERE near as bad as it is made out to be.  I had one for 126k miles, ZERO issues and got over 30MPG in a boxy AWD Patriot.  Have also been in a number of newer cars and they are even better in them.  Heck, My brother had a 15 Malibu 2.5 and a 14 200 rental 4 cylinder the next week and BOTH accelerated about the same and even the sound and feel were roughly the same.  Compare such things basically back to back and it really makes you wonder where some of he supposed bad stuff comes from.  Also, that 200 had 50k miles of rental abuse and ran and drove great. 


    The only valuable parts of this company are Jeep brand, Ram pickups, and minivan.  Maybe Alfa Romeo and Maserati to the right buyer.  VW, Ford, Mazda, GM, Nissan or anyone else can make small sedans and inline fours and V6s.  Jeep is a unique product and brand that other big car companies can't duplicate.  Pick up truck and minivan would fill gaps at VW or Mazda, but don't do much for Toyota or Nissan.

     

    Sergio might want to sell this company in pieces if that is his goal.

    This post just shows you have no knowledge about the company..............  at all............

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    And the 09 5.7 Hemi WAS heavily updated for 09

     

    he 2009 Hemi was extensively modified to increase both power and gas mileage. Changes included a higher compression ratio, better-flowing heads, intake, and exhaust, and an active intake manifold. This is a new technology that takes advantage of Chrysler advances in the 1960s; it switches from long runners to short runners by moving a flapper door, to switch from better torque at low engine speeds to higher horsepower as rpms rise.

    The new variable valve timing system used hydraulic cam phasing, relatively simple and inexpensive. The hydraulic roller camshaft had oil passages in front to drive the cam phaser sprocket, and increase valve lift. A new piston/rod assembly had thinner walls with a stronger-alloy pin.

    All the ports were redesigned, with a raised exhaust floor; the new intake valves were 2mm larger. Other upgrades were a stronger crankshaft, dual-mass crankshaft damper, floating pin pistons, new valve springs, and higher oil pump capacity. The results were better reliability and gas mileage, with more horsepower and torque at every point in the engine’s speed range.

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