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    G. David Felt

    Volkswagen Reveals the Global ID.7 Sedan

      Want a car with range, the ID.7 EV could be that answer.

    Volkswagen ID.7 is the brands first upper mid-size electric sedan. This is their first EV with the companies' new display and operating system. The ID.7 also delivers an excellent aerodynamics with a more efficient powertrain that ensures long range operation. The ID.7 offers exceptional comfort through features such as new AC system, seat Climatronic with massage function and a panoramic sunroof with switchable smart glass. The ID.7 will launch autumn 2023 in Europe and China and North America in 2024.

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    The superior powertrain, spacious interior and premium technologies make the ID.7 a comfortable limousine like EV for long distance travel with a battery range of up to 700 kilometers (WLTP) or 435 miles (EPA). 

    The following was stated by the executive leadership at VW.

    Thomas Schäfer, CEO of Volkswagen Passenger Cars: “With the ID.7 we are taking the next step in our electric offensive. The limousine offers a high level of comfort and long ranges. Already by 2026, we will offer the widest electric range of all manufacturers in Europe – from the entry-level model for less than 25,000 euros up to the ID.7 as the new top model within the ID. family. Our goal is to achieve an electric car share of 80 per cent in Europe by 2030. As from 2033, Volkswagen will produce only electric vehicles in Europe.”

    Kai Grünitz, Member of the Brand Board of Management responsible for Development: “The ID.7 sets new efficiency standards on the basis of the modular electric drive matrix (MEB). We are aiming for a range of up to 700 kilometres in accordance with WLTP. This is made possible by very good aerodynamics and by significantly increased efficiency in the areas of the powertrain and thermal management.” 

    The ID.7 is the first MEB model with an all new, highly efficient powertrain. This powertrain produces 210 kW or 282 HP, making this the most powerful and highest torque electric motor in the VW ID family.

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    The ID.7 has a drag coefficient of .23 made possible by the coupe style rear of the EV. The long wheelbase with short overhangs contributes to class leading interior space front and rear.

    VW is very excited to share the new operating and central display system with new operating system that is based on the SnapDragon Auto system. This system features the following:

    • a 38-centimetre (15-inch) infotainment system screen
    • the augmented reality head-up display
    • a new air conditioning operating concept integrated on the top level of the infotainment system as well as freely assignable favorites buttons
    • a backlit touch slider

    The interior will launch with two options that we know of:

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    With the new massage seats and the electronically dimmable panoramic sunroof, the ID.7 offers equipment options that are otherwise present only in the higher classes of premium competitors. The new panoramic sunroof with smart glass can be switched between opaque and transparent settings by touch control. Like many other functions in the ID.7, the roof can also be operated by means of natural voice commands – this takes place using the new IDA voice assistant. The optional front seats are also a new development: for the first time in a Volkswagen, they optionally offer adaptive seat Climatronic – with cooling or heating as required and also a drying function. A massage function with a seal of approval from the German Campaign for Healthier Backs (AGR) is also available. The range of options is rounded off by a 700-watt sound system from Harman Kardon: 14 high-end loudspeakers, including center speaker at the front and subwoofer in the luggage compartment, provide an impressive sound experience with the new Volkswagen limousine.

    Enhanced best-in-class assistance systems
    The Travel Assist with swarm data can take over lateral and longitudinal control of the ID.7 as needed. Volkswagen developed this feature together with CARIAD, the software company of the VW Group. If desired, the ID.7 can also use Travel Assist to support assisted lane changing on the multi-lane motorway at speeds above 90 km/h or 56 mph. The driver monitors this, but the strain of driving is significantly reduced. When it comes to parking, the electric Volkswagen can independently perform assisted maneuvers in different ways. One of these is parking with memory function over a distance of up to 50 meters or 164 feet. For this, the driver either remains sitting in the ID.7 or monitors the parking procedure from outside the vehicle using the smartphone app.

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    VW is accelerating their EV offensive committing to 10 new global models by 2026. The ID.7 is the first of these 10 new electric models that will join the ID family. Later this year, VW will introduce a compact SUV EV. The ID.7 will be produced locally in China, but production for Europe and North America will be done in Emden Germany.

    For more views of the all new ID.7 check our the media gallery here:

     

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    Not a fan of the super short trunk lid and I wish every car wasn’t just big screens inside but that is the trend.  It is kind of boring looking but most VW’s are.  
     

    Hard to have an opinion until we know what the price is.

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    52 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    Not a fan of the super short trunk lid and I wish every car wasn’t just big screens inside but that is the trend.  It is kind of boring looking but most VW’s are.  
     

    Hard to have an opinion until we know what the price is.

    As an EV car it looks better than anything from Tesla, Mercedes or BMW. Has a bit of style that is either lacking, Looking at you Tesla and Mercedes or is over styled, Looking at you BMW with your massive ugly Kidney grill.

    I would put it on par with Hyundai / Kia / Genesis / Audi so far.

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    1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

    Not a fan of the super short trunk lid and I wish every car wasn’t just big screens inside but that is the trend.  It is kind of boring looking but most VW’s are.

    Three things.

     

    1-It has a hatch, not a trunk.

     

    2-Looks better than any other German offerings not already under the VW stable (i.e. Audi and Porsche as well).

     

    2-I don't remember big ass screens being a problem for you before but maybe that was related to the manufacturer more than the existence of the big ass screens themselves. It should be noted that VWs screens are far smaller than certain other brands.

    Edited by surreal1272
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    13 minutes ago, David said:

    As an EV car it looks better than anything from Tesla, Mercedes or BMW. Has a bit of style that is either lacking, Looking at you Tesla and Mercedes or is over styled, Looking at you BMW with your massive ugly Kidney grill.

    I would put it on par with Hyundai / Kia / Genesis / Audi so far.

    I'd take a Tesla over this thing.  The VW Arteon looked better than this car and was allergic to sales at $40,000.  This will be a sales bust in the USA, might do okay in Europe and China, but China also has EV price wars galore going on.  If they did a Golf or Jetta EV (that isn't a 100 mile range compliance car) that might do well in the US since those 2 cars have had some success here.  Passat, Phaeton, CC, Arteon were all sales duds back when sedans sold, and now the masses don't want sedans.

    3 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

    Three things.

     

    1-It has a hatch, not a trunk.

     

    2-Looks better than any other German offerings not already under the VW stable (i.e. Audi and Porsche as well).

     

    2-I don't remember big ass screens being a problem for you before but maybe that was related to the manufacturer more than the existence of the big ass screens themselves. It should be noted that VWs screens are far smaller than certain other brands.

    The Mercedes hyper screen is ridiculous but at least it isn't tacked on top of the dash, they build it in.  But I would prefer the non hyper screen cars to get wood trim or actual materials in the car, not just screens everywhere.  

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    5 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    I'd take a Tesla over this thing.

    You don't say.

    5 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    The Mercedes hyper screen is ridiculous but at least it isn't tacked on top of the dash, they build it in.  But I would prefer the non hyper screen cars to get wood trim or actual materials in the car, not just screens everywhere.  

    And? Your initial issue with the VW wasn't the placement. It was the "big screens" everywhere. Now you are saying it is because of placement. Pick a stance and stick with it.

     

    And I am no VW fan but I would take this over the quality challenged Tesla any day. You just go on ahead and be Elon's slave though lol. Just don't trust the "autopilot".

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    8 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    The VW Arteon looked better than this car and was allergic to sales at $40,000.  This will be a sales bust in the USA

    A price hasn't even been announced yet, per your own post above yet now it will be a sales bust? Great logic you're showing there.

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    1 minute ago, surreal1272 said:

    A price hasn't even been announced yet, per your own post above yet now it will be a sales bust? Great logic you're showing there.

    We know they will over price it, and we know it won't sell.  We already saw that story play out with the iD4 and the aforementioned Arteon.   VW came out with a lower priced iD4 since launch and has the tax credit this year and did get a sales bump, but they sold 9700 in Q1 in the US vs like 100,000 Tesla Model Y.  And the Model Y cut prices twice this month, so now you can get them for iD4 money, and the Model Y is faster with more range and the Model Y is bigger and roomier. 

    When Tesla hits the 20 million units a year level, VW is going to be one of the losers, although not in the big loser list like Honda, Nissan/Renault/Mitsubishi, Mazda and Subaru.  VW probably drops to like 6 million units a year in 2035, those other ones might not even be here.

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    1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

    We know they will over price it, and we know it won't sell.

    We do huh? Didn’t realize that your opinion was representative of “we”. 
     

    Until this comes out and hits the street with the same grace period of time you give to Tesla, it means exactly squat. 
     

     

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    2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    VW came out with a lower priced iD4 since launch and has the tax credit this year and did get a sales bump, but they sold 9700 in Q1 in the US vs like 100,000 Tesla Model Y.

    Because the Tesla fanboy thinks it’s just about raw numbers when comparing EVs (when it’s convenient to him, anyway). Skip the part where it has been discussed (at great length) the fact that VW is still ramping up production on their EVs, like everyone else who came into the EV game years after Tesla. 
     

     

    IMG_5276.png

    Edited by surreal1272
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    1 hour ago, surreal1272 said:

    Because the Tesla fanboy thinks it’s just about raw numbers when comparing EVs (when it’s convenient to him, anyway). Skip the part where it has been discussed (at great length) the fact that VW is still ramping up production on their EVs, like everyone else who came into the EV game years after Tesla. 
     

     

    IMG_5276.png

    Still a pretty slow ramp up.   Maybe the plan is to introduce iD7 in 2024 and by 2026 be up to 20,000 units per year.

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    7 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    Still a pretty slow ramp up.   Maybe the plan is to introduce iD7 in 2024 and by 2026 be up to 20,000 units per year.

    And as I have proven to you, Tesla was a very slow ramp up in EV sales. 

    Tesla - statistics & facts | Statista

    image.png

    VW EV Sales by Year.

    Volkswagen Group global electric vehicle sales | Statista

    image.png

    By the 3rd year, VW had surpassed Tesla from 2015 to 2017 and they had been selling EVs since 2008 when they only sold 2,500 units.

    Yes year 2016 to 2019 was slow ramp with more compliance EVs than real EVs. Yet 2020 sales took off and 2021. 

    Forecasts have VW surpassing Tesla by the end of 2024 in EV sales. They are ramping up faster than Tesla in 2021 was only 173,100 ahead of VW. At the rate VW is ramping up, there is a good chance they could surpass Tesla this year, but for sure I expect VW to surpass them and GM will be coming on strong as they ramp up EV production.

    This is an Apples to Apples comparison as both results are from the leading statistics supplier Statista.

    FYI - GM broke 500,000 EV sales globally in 2021 per General Motors global electric vehicle sales | Statista which we know that China is the biggest market for GM right now.

    Chart: General Motors' EV Sales Are Charging Up | Statista

    image.png

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    8 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    Still a pretty slow ramp up.   Maybe the plan is to introduce iD7 in 2024 and by 2026 be up to 20,000 units per year.

    Not the point. You said it was a failure and I showed you that it wasn’t. Your raw number comparison to Tesla did. It change that fact either, hence my previous post. Put the damn bar down or here’s a thought. Stop making up $h! about companies that are not Mercedes just because you are too lazy or too much of a fanboy to actually bother with the facts before you post. 

    7 hours ago, David said:

    And as I have proven to you, Tesla was a very slow ramp up in EV sales. 

    He has been told this time and time again yet comes back to the same sales BS. Done holding his fanboy hand over it. 

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    20 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

    Not the point. You said it was a failure and I showed you that it wasn’t. Your raw number comparison to Tesla did NOT change that fact either, hence my previous post. Put the damn bar down or here’s a thought. Stop making up $h! about companies that are not Mercedes just because you are too lazy or too much of a fanboy to actually bother with the facts before you post. 

    Corrected in bold.

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    This is very "okay" looking. It's almost exactly how I saw the Passat. It's extremely inoffensive and quite boring but also not bad in any way. It's just... "okay". I'd drive one. 

    16 hours ago, David said:

    As an EV car it looks better than anything from Tesla, Mercedes or BMW. Has a bit of style that is either lacking, Looking at you Tesla and Mercedes or is over styled, Looking at you BMW with your massive ugly Kidney grill.

    I would put it on par with Hyundai / Kia / Genesis / Audi so far.

    Personally, I strongly disagree about Tesla. The 3 and S are still very attractive cars, even thought they're pretty old now. 

    They have the traditional RWD proportions that this just does not have.

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    46 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    This is very "okay" looking. It's almost exactly how I saw the Passat. It's extremely inoffensive and quite boring but also not bad in any way. It's just... "okay". I'd drive one. 

    Personally, I strongly disagree about Tesla. The 3 and S are still very attractive cars, even thought they're pretty old now. 

    They have the traditional RWD proportions that this just does not have.

    It is interesting to see this next to the Tesla 3 and I now realize maybe it is more being a new EV or the color. Clearly differences in the greenhouse but overall shape is near identical between the two.

    To me Tesla style is so Blah now that they are forgettable and do not stand out on the road when driving unlike Kia/Hyundai or VW where you see one and it stands out from the other autos. Especially the Ford Mach-e stands out and is readily noticeable.

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    I will grant you seeing it this way that the Tesla S is far better than I realized in this side profile comparison.

    image.png

    I will revise my earlier statement and say that the current Tesla S is a better looking auto than the VW or Tesla 3. Sadly, having tried to put my frame into one, it fails on interior space for me.

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    20 minutes ago, David said:

    It is interesting to see this next to the Tesla 3 and I now realize maybe it is more being a new EV or the color. Clearly differences in the greenhouse but overall shape is near identical between the two.

    Very good demonstration. They really are nearly identical. I guess I'm wrong with the proportions of the 3. I still like it more and I think it has to do with the much lower front facia and hood. 

    The S still has the long hood though. While it's old, I still think it's a very attractive looking car. 

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    16 hours ago, David said:

    And as I have proven to you, Tesla was a very slow ramp up in EV sales. 

    Tesla - statistics & facts | Statista

    image.png

    VW EV Sales by Year.

    Volkswagen Group global electric vehicle sales | Statista

    image.png

    By the 3rd year, VW had surpassed Tesla from 2015 to 2017 and they had been selling EVs since 2008 when they only sold 2,500 units.

    Yes year 2016 to 2019 was slow ramp with more compliance EVs than real EVs. Yet 2020 sales took off and 2021. 

    Forecasts have VW surpassing Tesla by the end of 2024 in EV sales. They are ramping up faster than Tesla in 2021 was only 173,100 ahead of VW. At the rate VW is ramping up, there is a good chance they could surpass Tesla this year, but for sure I expect VW to surpass them and GM will be coming on strong as they ramp up EV production.

    This is an Apples to Apples comparison as both results are from the leading statistics supplier Statista.

    FYI - GM broke 500,000 EV sales globally in 2021 per General Motors global electric vehicle sales | Statista which we know that China is the biggest market for GM right now.

    Chart: General Motors' EV Sales Are Charging Up | Statista

    image.png

    VW will never pass Tesla in EV sales and VW will not be the #2 car maker by volume in 2030, I suspect Tesla and BYD will have passed them by then and VW will be in a battle with Toyota and Hyundai group for the 3rd-5th spots.

    6 hours ago, ccap41 said:

    This is very "okay" looking. It's almost exactly how I saw the Passat. It's extremely inoffensive and quite boring but also not bad in any way. It's just... "okay". I'd drive one. 

    Personally, I strongly disagree about Tesla. The 3 and S are still very attractive cars, even thought they're pretty old now. 

    They have the traditional RWD proportions that this just does not have.

    And VW couldn’t sell Passats at $30k or Arteons at $40k.  But here they come with a rumored $50k+ sedan.  You will be able to buy a Cadillac CT5 or Lexus ES for less money than this VW.  Unless VW pulls a shocker and charges $39,990 for this thing.

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    7 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    VW will never pass Tesla in EV sales and VW will not be the #2 car maker by volume in 2030, I suspect Tesla and BYD will have passed them by then and VW will be in a battle with Toyota and Hyundai group for the 3rd-5th spots.

    Have you looked at the numbers?

    In a really latest interview with BYD BYD aims to sell at least 3 million vehicles this year - CnEVPost

    image.png

    The 1,863,494 million units built and sold covering all ICE, Hybrid and EV.

    Lets look at VW Global Sales, this is ICE, Hybrid and EV.

    image.png

    Sales at everyone had dropped globally, but VW sells 4 times the autos BYD does. 

    Keep smoking the weed as it is the only way your belief will happen as Tesla is not going to go away, but the polarizing nature of the CEO has turned off many globally to any Tesla product.

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    Before @smk4565 you say VW is going down, they had a stellar Q1 and are on track to do 9.5 million autos globally for 2023. A 14% increase over 2022.

    Volkswagen Group bolsters expansion in global growth markets after strong Q1 results (volkswagenag.com)

    Many news media outlets agree with this: Volkswagen's 2023 sales outlook blows past forecast, shares soar - Autoblog

    BYD has another bigger problem, their growth has been in China and while they are working to expand to Europe, they stopped looking to enter the U.S. market due to negative attitudes towards Chinese made products and the fact that to compete, the IRA bill would require them to buy land and build plants here which they do not want to do as all production is in China and product is being shipped from China throughout Asia and Europe. 

    Once the unions of Europe hear that BYD is not interested in building products in Europe but just ship from China, it will hit them in sales there too.  3 million global auto sales will be hard for BYD I think this year. Closer to 2.25 million for BYD, 2.5 million on the high end maybe.

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    14 minutes ago, David said:

    Have you looked at the numbers?

    In a really latest interview with BYD BYD aims to sell at least 3 million vehicles this year - CnEVPost

    image.png

    The 1,863,494 million units built and sold covering all ICE, Hybrid and EV.

    Lets look at VW Global Sales, this is ICE, Hybrid and EV.

    image.png

    Sales at everyone had dropped globally, but VW sells 4 times the autos BYD does. 

    Keep smoking the weed as it is the only way your belief will happen as Tesla is not going to go away, but the polarizing nature of the CEO has turned off many globally to any Tesla product.

    VW is on steady decline, I can easily see them at 6 million units per year in 2030.  And Tesla will be around 8-10 million, BYD could get to 6.5 million and pass VW.  Now if BYD can’t expand much out of Asia then VW could stay ahead of them, but I can still see Tesla, Hyundai and Toyota all in front of VW come 2030.  Stallantis will probably drop from their current number so I think VW could still edge them out.

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    ill rank em

    1. Model S

    2. Air

    3. Celestiq - The profile doesn't translate well in photos because its gigantic

    4. I4

    5. Model 3

    6. ID7

    7. Polestar 2

    8. Ioniq6

    9. i7

    10. EQS

    11. EQE

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    I like the Celesiq and everything from the Ioniq 6 down.

    The front face of the i7 is its downfall, but the side profile is handsome.

    The ID.7 I'm not sold on yet from the side.  It looks like they were trying to design a wagon and then a manager came in and said, "Actung! This is going to be sold in Amerika! Du kannst nicht!"

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    6 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    I like the Celesiq and everything from the Ioniq 6 down.

    The front face of the i7 is its downfall, but the side profile is handsome.

    The ID.7 I'm not sold on yet from the side.  It looks like they were trying to design a wagon and then a manager came in and said, "Actung! This is going to be sold in Amerika! Du kannst nicht!"

    I think you could say it not only about the ID.7 but the Tesla 3 and Ioniq 6 which all have the front cut off short.

    I am very surprised as I hate the nose, but I think the side profile of the I4 by BMW is my favorite right now Especially in that Green.

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    1.   Audi and Porsche 

    Not on the list...but to me, are the sexiest EV sedans to date.   Side profile or any profile for that matter.

    2022 Audi e-tron GT and RS GT Make Us Forget They're EVs

    New Carbon Fiber parts for the Porsche Taycan Turbo S – Zyrus.no

     

    2.  pains me to admit this...but the Bimmer i4.   It looks like a regualr BMW sedan 4 series sedan.  None of that nonsense of stylizing a funky EV JUST because its an EV.  

    Snag_15545b13.png

    3.   (TIED)  (3 WAY)

    Celestiq   

    Admittedetly, the rounded rear looks a bit off.  But Im guessing pictures dont do it justice.  When I see it in the real world, Ill adjust my opinion of it. 

    Cadillac Looks To Its Electric Future With Retro-Inspired Celestiq - Forbes  Wheels

    3.  Model S

    After all these years, it still looks good.  Not as sexy as it was when it came out. Time has aged it.   But its still very very nice.  But to me, its a classic EV that is still sold.  Kinda like the Challenger.  Its an old car, but its a classic RIGHT NOW!!! 

    image.png

     

    3.   Lucid Air

    The side view flows nicely.  Would be SEXY AF if we were still in the 1990s.    So it g be tied with 2 othjer cars in 3rd place.

    2023 Lucid Motors Air Sapphire Exterior Photos | CarBuzz

     

    4. Ioniq 6

    Its a quirky design on any profile.  Side view actually flows nicely.  I like.  Wouldnt want to own one though.  Too droopy of you will for my tastes.  But I like nonetheless. 

    Snag_154dae26.png

     

    5.  TIED (2 WAY) 

    BMW i7

    Looks like the the regualr 7 Series.  See i4 reasoning and apply it to this one.   Some might call it ugly. I wont argue it.  Side profile looks stately.  And THAT is what counts for me.   A fullsized luxury car NEEDS to look stately. And this one does.  I like a lot!

    Snag_1556305f.png

     

    5.  Model 3 

    Frumpy.  Dated really really quickly.  But in all honesty, it aint bad.  

    Snag_13f68d45.png

     

    I dont like the rest of the cars so I wont even bother rating them.  

    Mercedes' attempts at slippery EV sedans look too much like used bar of soaps.  That kind of styling would even be too much roundedness for the 1990s.  Its not a bad look per se.  I just dont like. 

    The Polestar is too square and too tall.  Dont like.  Not stately enough.  Too tête carré to enjoy. 

    Its NOT hip to be square. 

     

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    Thanks @oldshurst442 I totally forgot the Porsche and Audi as I have not honestly seen either here in the PNW and so out of sight, out of mind. 

    Both are not bad, but something about the Porsche just turns me off as ugly. Audi is the nicer of the two IMHO.

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    4 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    VW is on steady decline,

    Changing over to EV the last few years will sag sales for a traditional ICE automaker and then there were the supply issue affecting ALL sales for everyone for 2020 and 2021. Again, this has ALL been discussed with you before. Stop ignoring it just because you can't admit when your "facts" are wrong.

     

    BTW, your favorite brand from Germany had deicing sales in 2019, 2020, and 2021 with a small bounce back in 2022. You're not exactly standing on stable ground here with your VW "assessment".

     

    (cue endless bar moving response)

    Edited by surreal1272
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    41 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

    Changing over to EV the last few years will sag sales for a traditional ICE automaker and then there were the supply issue affecting ALL sales for everyone for 2020 and 2021. Again, this has ALL been discussed with you before. Stop ignoring it just because you can't admit when your "facts" are wrong.

     

    BTW, your favorite brand from Germany had deicing sales in 2019, 2020, and 2021 with a small bounce back in 2022. You're not exactly standing on stable ground here with your VW "assessment".

     

    (cue endless bar moving response)

    Switching to ICE shouldn't be hurting their sales, they still make the Golf, Jetta, Tiguan, Atlas and they introduced the Taos.  Killed the Passat but that was a sales dud anyway.  Their sales dropped because their ICE cars aren't selling and their supply chain is no doubt jacked up because they rely on Eastern Europe and Ukraine for a lot of parts.  But Tesla increased sales in the same time frame, they solved supply chain.

    Here are 2019 US sales on the left and 2022 sales on the right.  Most of these brands are done, some like Honda and Ford have lost 500,000 units, Nissan has lost about half its volume, Buick and Dodge lost half their volume,  VW is down about 1/3.   BMW, Hyundai and Kia are up slightly, Tesla more than doubled.  Mercedes down 10,000 units, but they are up in 2023, they should pass 2019 levels this year, which is pretty good considering Tesla hit the luxury market first and they survived.  Once Tesla rolls out the lower priced cars and hits the mainstream these brands that are struggling now are going to be headed for bankruptcy.  

     

    Screenshot2023-04-20at10_41_03PM.thumb.png.6d319dc4944c1ba9df1f9269913ca341.png

    And VW is getting outsold by BMW, Mercedes and Lexus right now and that is with VW's cheap cars.  The id4 is priced and sized like a GLB or Lexus NX, the iD7 will be priced higher than a Lexus ES.  Who is going to buy these VW's with Lexus-level pricing when people aren't buying VW's at Toyota level pricing?

    JLR, Nissan, Mitsubishi (and Renault) are done, (Subaru and Mazda will be bought by Toyota).  Honda, Stellantis and VW in 10 years will be half what they are now.  None of them stand a chance against Tesla.  Toyota has so much size and cash, I think they will put up a fight, and GM and Ford will put up a good fight in the USA, but won't have the global scale Tesla will have.  Hyundai/Kia are a strong contender, although they don't make much profit per car, so if ICE sales drop and they aren't making profit on EV's they have no margin for error.

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    39 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    Switching to ICE shouldn't be hurting their sales,

    No need to read the rest of your post when your are going to be deliberately ignorant to the facts. What was Mercedes damn excuse for a three year slide before 2022? 
     

    You know what? Don’t answer it because it doesn’t matter. You are wrong, period, if you think this kind of switch doesn’t affect sales. FFS. 

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    15 hours ago, David said:

    BMW I4

    Snag_15545b13.png

     

    15 hours ago, David said:

    Lucid Air

    Snag_1559b3f8.png

     

    15 hours ago, David said:

    Tesla S

    image.png

    This is my order strictly based on looks. 

    1: BMW i4

    2: Lucid Air

    3: Model S

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    mixed bag, better looking than the other ID's but still looking chunky and weird.

    These EV interiors with their horizontal dashboards, tacked on screens and weird consoles don't feel like some of the more driver oriented cockpit interiors we've gotten used to over the last couple decades or so.

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    40 minutes ago, regfootball said:

    mixed bag, better looking than the other ID's but still looking chunky and weird.

    These EV interiors with their horizontal dashboards, tacked on screens and weird consoles don't feel like some of the more driver oriented cockpit interiors we've gotten used to over the last couple decades or so.

    Reg, if you had to choose what would your pick be for those EVs listed in regards to looks?

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    17 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

    BMW i7

    Looks like the the regualr 7 Series.  See i4 reasoning and apply it to this one.   Some might call it ugly. I wont argue it.  Side profile looks stately.  And THAT is what counts for me.   A fullsized luxury car NEEDS to look stately. And this one does.  I like a lot!

    Snag_1556305f.png

    Am I the only one who saw 4-door Challenger at first glance? Obviously it isn't but that's what my eyes saw until I looked further. 

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    2 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    Am I the only one who saw 4-door Challenger at first glance? Obviously it isn't but that's what my eyes saw until I looked further. 

    Nope never say that, I do see the front nose reminds me of a luxury 2 door that was either Infinity or Lexus, mid to backend really is too generic for me to think of any other auto.

    Snag_1556305f.png

    image.png

    Found it, 1992 Lexus SC300

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    5 hours ago, ccap41 said:

    Am I the only one who saw 4-door Challenger at first glance? Obviously it isn't but that's what my eyes saw until I looked further. 

    Were you-ah been boozin' when you helucinated that?  Suckin' back on grandpa's cough medecine?

    Dumb And Dumber Beer GIF - Dumb And Dumber Beer Drinking - Discover & Share  GIFs

    Dumb And GIF - Dumb And Dumber - Discover & Share GIFs

     

     

    Yeah...you'de be the only one to see that! 

    Sorry #ReactionGifs

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    7 hours ago, ccap41 said:

    Am I the only one who saw 4-door Challenger at first glance? Obviously it isn't but that's what my eyes saw until I looked further. 

    Yeah...you buggin (tripping) with that one...the 7 series in general while the proportions are right that front fascia and the angle of it is............off

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    @oldshurst442 @ccap41 @trinacriabob @NINETY EIGHT REGENCY @Robert Hall @Drew Dowdell @regfootball @smk4565

    Seems VW is doubling down as they had a small press release today as a GTX performance model that will be part of the ID.7 release.

    First preview of the new ID.7 GTX: a long-distance limousine with more power and all-wheel drive | Volkswagen Newsroom (volkswagen-newsroom.com)

    These are the only detailed images they have released on this GTX version.

    DB2023AU00500_large.jpg

    Cars are not dead according to VW.

    FYI - Pro and Pro S were the original two trims at the announcement, both have an 82 kWh battery good for 382 miles. An upgraded battery pack is available at 91 kWh good for 435 miles. Both models get the same 210 kW or 282 HP motor in RWD. So how powerful will the GTX be in AWD will be interesting to see and I wonder if a bigger battery pack will also be available with the GTX.

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    On 4/21/2023 at 12:06 PM, ccap41 said:

    Am I the only one who saw 4-door Challenger at first glance? Obviously it isn't but that's what my eyes saw until I looked further. 

    I can see that.

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    7 hours ago, David said:

    @oldshurst442 @ccap41 @trinacriabob @NINETY EIGHT REGENCY @Robert Hall @Drew Dowdell @regfootball @smk4565

    Seems VW is doubling down as they had a small press release today as a GTX performance model that will be part of the ID.7 release.

    First preview of the new ID.7 GTX: a long-distance limousine with more power and all-wheel drive | Volkswagen Newsroom (volkswagen-newsroom.com)

    These are the only detailed images they have released on this GTX version.

    DB2023AU00500_large.jpg

    Cars are not dead according to VW.

    FYI - Pro and Pro S were the original two trims at the announcement, both have an 82 kWh battery good for 382 miles. An upgraded battery pack is available at 91 kWh good for 435 miles. Both models get the same 210 kW or 282 HP motor in RWD. So how powerful will the GTX be in AWD will be interesting to see and I wonder if a bigger battery pack will also be available with the GTX.

    Probably will cost most than an A6 or E-class.  And I feel like the people that can afford a $60,000 sedan are going to buy an Audi or Mercedes, not a VW.  And the people that are EV or nothing will buy a Tesla.

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    1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

    Probably will cost most than an A6 or E-class.  And I feel like the people that can afford a $60,000 sedan are going to buy an Audi or Mercedes, not a VW.  And the people that are EV or nothing will buy a Tesla.

    That is one way to see it, but with both Audi, BMW, Mercedes and Tesla having reduced market share as others continue to go up, I would not count on this being more expensive than the other German brands or Tesla and I am seeing far more VW EVs on the road lately than I am seeing Audi, BMW, Mercedes. Only Tesla has more around here and even then they seem to be stacking up on the Tesla lot as across from Tesla here is Mercedes and they have plenty of EVs now on the lot too, but they are not moving.

    We are going into interesting times where people want AWD be it a car or SUV and more people are wanting an SUV. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

    If Fusion power comes to production by 2030, then you can truly kiss all ICE and Hydrogen autos goodbye.

    Microsoft says commercial use of fusion-produced energy will be available within 5 years as part of new deal with Sam Altman-backed Helion (msn.com)

    Interesting chart of days of supply.

    image.png

    OUCH, Interesting picture of those loosing market share to those gaining market share.

    USA - Flash report, Automotive sales volume, 2023 - MarkLines Automotive Industry Portal

    image.png

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  • Posts

    • Some interesting reading. Here's Why People Are Willing to Pay More for an EV - CNET The Real Costs of Electric Car Ownership - CNET Why I Don't Own an Electric Car Yet - CNET EV Charging vs. Gas: We Do the Math to See Which is Cheaper - CNET I will say that the last writing where people say installing a home charger negates any savings on charging versus gas buying. That might be true if they have been driving a Prius but for me that had an SS my wife drove spending $600 a month on premium fuel or $7,200 a year on gas, even if I had paid the cost of an Electrician installing a home charger rather than doing it myself as I wrote about here:   I am still coming out ahead on home charging with an EV that is roomy, comfortable and way better in many ways than my SS was.
    • Yes, that is correct, the miles between charging that has been driven by my wife. Correct, on your 265 miles statement. We are charging almost 100% at home as unless I go on a road trip, there is no need for local fast charging at this time since we can just come home plug it in and the next morning before my wife leaves, she has a full battery pack. So other than the Electrify America Charging in Yakima that we did when we went for cherries two weeks ago, all charging is at home.
    • Great writeup, David! It's much appreciated. On your screenshot of "Charging Activity" Is that the miles driven between those dates?  So, you drove 265 miles from the 5th to 10th and it cost you $9.22? Am I reading that correctly? And at 0.10/kw that's about 92.2kw used from the two dates?  What percentage do you charge to at home? Are you charging to 100%? 90%? 80%?
    • The grand plan was a separate new service to the house of 200 amps so that the garage would have plenty of power for charging multiple EVs and I would have a separate bill each cycle for knowing what I was spending for EV driving. Waking up in the morning to a full charge of power and never having to stop at a gas station due to having a Level 2, 240-volt home charger is a luxury everyone should have allowing you to smile as you drive by a gas station with folks outside dealing with their fueling. The ultimate perk of EV ownership.  I started with reaching out to my local utility and inquiring of the process for a new service. My local utility was more than accommodating in helping me out with the details. As an engineer that loves to learn, this process was very eye opening into the costs, lack of efficiencies by agencies and electrical contractors with a surprising ending to my eventual solution. Let's start off by making one thing clear, every state has their own regulations in regard to electrical. While the USA follows the national electrical code as a starting point, each state, county and city then adds their own additions or subtractions to the code. Always make sure to follow your local code no matter if you hire a company, independent contractor or are a DIY (Do it Yourself) type of person. Full information on the national electrical code can be found here:  The National Electrical Code (NEC) - Electrical Safety Foundation (esfi.org) Another thing to point out is every state has their own way of dealing with electrical supply and competition. As such, some states allow their end users to pick among competitive electrical suppliers even to the point of choosing to use Green Energy (Solar, Wind, and or Hydro) or not (Coal, Natural Gas, Nuclear). Other states tend to regulate this down to the city and or county within a state. Washington state is a regulated power supply state so that depending on the county you live in; you deal with your county or the state power supplier. Washington state has one of the greenest electrical grides in the country. It produces 7,816 MWh of electricity and it breaks down as follows: Figures as of May 16th, 2024 Petroleum-Fired - 0% Natural Gas - 21.3% Coal-Fired - 3.9% Nuclear 10.3% Renewables - 64.1% (Hydro, Wind, Solar & Ocean) Fueling Stations in Washington State: Motor Gasoline - 1,846 Stations Propane - 64 Stations EV Charging - 2,153 stations E85 - 5 stations Biodiesel, CNG, & Other Alternatives - 8 stations If you wish to check out your own state information you can do so here by clicking on your state:  U.S. Energy Information Administration - EIA - Independent Statistics and Analysis Starting off on my project I had decided to go ahead with a ChargePoint+ Home Flex Hardwired solution. Yes, there are a wide variety of good home chargers that run from $250 to $2000 dollars such as the Porsche home charger. Home Flex Hardwired Level 2 EV Charger (chargepoint.com) The choice of this charger was based on the following: Some of the best reviews out there by thousands of people Hardwired allowed me the best power supply available to the EV building in future protection as newer EV tech comes online. ChargePoint sells both CCS and NACS supply cords, making upgrades from my current EV with CCS to a future EV with NACS easy as a self-Upgrade to the charger. ChargePoint app allows for use both at their fast-charging network and to track my own use and cost. You can find a large diverse choice of L1 and L2 chargers on Amazon or from other sources. Many utilities will have rebates if you purchase through your local utility or in the case of my own system, I had to file a rebate form as my charger was on the approved list, but not available from my utility. ChargePoint+ also points out that till 2032 you might be able to qualify for a $1,000 rebate from the federal government. Electric Vehicle (EV) Charging Incentives | ChargePoint Now that I have covered some of the basics about electrical and power source, lets dive into my journey for a Level 2 Home Charger. Karl at the Snohomish PUD sent me a form that I had to fill out, this was a "New Service Residential Request" form. Here I had to fill out the normal details such as my house address, current status of the electrical to the home, type of new service being requested, pictures of where the service would need to be connected to the house and where I wanted the service panel to be, etc. This form had an area for requested measurements from the house to the utility pole, gross measurements of where the wiring would need to go so that the service could be sized up accordingly. The last part was the direction from my PUD on checking with the city for any additional requirements. For those wanting to see what the new service request form looks like I supply it here: 1097R_NSQres.pdf City requirements were that any electrical changes to the existing structure that comprised more than 10% cost of the home improvement value as assessed by the county required that the electrical lines from the utility pole to the house be installed underground rather than overhead. Luckily for me, my estimated costs would be under this so I was not looking to have to figure this into the cost of adding the service or so I thought. Karl at SNOPUD said he would do the assessment and have out to me the updated info shortly. In the meantime, I reached out to a couple of recommended electrical companies from the SNOPUD website and a few independent electricians to get estimates on the work to be done. Specifically, I wanted two quotes, first is the all-new service added to the house with dedicated panel feeding the garage. Second was updating the existing panel to support a charger in the garage using my existing service. Here I was expecting a $5 to $6 thousand dollar install connection for the first service and based on the auto industry estimate of around $1,500 to $2,000 for the second. Boy was I off by a bunch. All the estimates from both the electrical companies I contacted, and the independent contractors had the new service install between $10 to $12 thousand dollars and the existing services was between $4,700 to $6,200. This also did not include the connection to the PUD. Here I was informed from Karl at SNOPUD that the service could be done but would require a new transformer to our cul-d-sac to support the added amperage pull. As such, this was more than just a wire connection but an outage to the cul-d-sac ending in an almost $15,000 charge. Who knew that adding a service where you pay them for the flow of electricity would have such a huge cost and impact on my project. This put the cost of a new service between $25,000 to $27,000 dollars. So much for the Auto Industry estimates of $1,500 to $2,000 dollars and it also did not include the required $125.00 electrical permit I would have to get from the city and inspection. I did keep in mind that the price of electrical work varies based on the cost of labor where one lives, power of the charger, distance from the charger to the electrical panel along with the job complexity. What about DIY (Do it Yourself), could I do this job myself and what would the cost be? First, I knew from all the quotes that I was greatly under my 200-amp service pull as I have Gas stove, Dryer, Water heater and Furnace. As such, the 240V 30-to-50-amp circuits that are in my panel are not being used at all. One of the independent electricians had stated that the cheapest way would be to pull an existing circuit breaker and run the wire into the panel with the new Circuit breaker, but most electricians did not like leaving existing wires from outlets in the panel even if they were sealed off, they just did not like doing this, so everyone had quoted based on adding a secondary panel. With this information, I researched from the ChargePoint+ website on installing the hardwired charger I had purchased from them. ChargePoint+ has installation videos and covers all the information on installation as well as becoming a certified installation expert. ChargePoint Home Resources | ChargePoint ChargePoint Home Flex (CPH50) Hardwired Installation Video | ChargePoint Become a Certified ChargePoint Installer | ChargePoint From the website above I gathered the following information on the materials that I would need. Conduit large enough to hold the wiring Brackets to attach the conduit and screws 90-degree wire access conduit Associated pipe nipple for connection into the panel Insulated bushing Appropriate washer and locknut for connection to the panel 6 AWG wiring Black, Red and Green wires per code ChargePoint+ clearly states to use 6AWG for their Level 2 Charger installation. 6 AWG wire stripper 70amp circuit breaker Some states require these to be Arc or GFCI for indoor or outdoor, national code for outdoor installation is a GFCI breaker upstream from the outdoor installation. Check local regulations for proper type required. Make sure to get the proper type of circuit breaker for your panel, I had D block circuits. Ground Fault Circuit Interrupters vs. Arc Fault Circuit Interrupters - Bob Vila Torque Screwdriver set Most do not know that depending on the size of the circuit breaker, when you connect the wiring to the breaker, the screws must be torqued to a certain range. The 70amp circuits per the side of the breaker states 45 in. lbs. Paintable caulking to seal both access points into the house for the charger. With having my list of materials, I choose to first compare prices online from Home Depot and Lowe's. What I found was that Home Depot was much higher in the cost of the wiring, but cheaper in conduit, circuit breakers and accessories. Lucky, I have both home improvement stores within a 2-mile radius of my house. What I also noticed was that neither home improvement store had the required tools I would need, so clearly, I would have to stop off at my local Harbor Freight tool store. Harbor Freight Tools | Quality Tools, Lowest Prices With the knowledge of what I needed and a shopping list, I headed out and accomplished the following: Electrical Permit from my city.  Wiring from Lowe's - Lowe’s Home Improvement (lowes.com) Conduit, circuit breaker and accessories from Home Depot - The Home Depot Tools from Harbor Freight tools company - Harbor Freight Tools | Quality Tools, Lowest Prices Opening up the electrical panel as you can see here, I have my household 200amp circuit at the top. This will kill power to everything in the house, below this was the kitchen and laundry room 240V circuit and then on down throughout the rest of the house to the garage with various circuits. At this point, I knew that I would be turning off the 200amp circuit to work on this panel and protect the rest of the house. Note to point out is that when you turn off this 200amp circuit, the power is not flowing to the rest of the panel, but you still have the power coming from the street to this panel and so there is live electricity in that 200amp circuit. One must always be cautious when working with electrical. One safety thing to do, remove ALL jewelry, watches, phones, etc. Have nothing on you that is electrical or any kind of metal and that includes a wedding ring. All these are places that can cause an electrical jump / short that can cause you harm. As one that grew up working on auto's and having great respect for the electrical system of auto's, homes, datacenters, etc. there are some things that I do not have a problem doing. In this case I kept the power to the house on while I pulled the panel cover off. A proper panel should have all the wires in 90 degrees to the circuit breakers and to the grounding / neutral bars that are silver in this case. Here I have not had any manipulation of the box done with patchwork electrical hacks. It is always best to learn the details or hire the proper person to do your electrical work. Being that I am comfortable with pulling out the circuit breaker that is turned off, I choose to pull and replace the 240V 30-amp laundry room circuit. Here in this picture, you can see it removed and a better view of the grounding / neutral bar of the electrical panel. At this point, I wanted to pull out the punch of where I was going to run the new electrical lines into the panel. Once I pulled out the punch, I drilled a small starter hole from the inside to the outside so I could line up properly the larger drill bit for the incoming conduit. Upon drilling, I attached the pipe nipple extension to the 90-degree wire access conduit, and I inserted it through the outside wall. Here I put on the washer, lock nut and insulated bushing as you can see here. Now the next step was to install the conduit, some love their hard conduit and gluing it together as it comes in 10ft lengths, and you then have to either use a special heater tool to bend the hard conduit or buy the proper pieces that are curved. I choose to go with liquid proof flexible commercial conduit. The benefit here is that while this is a bit more expensive, the flexibility of the line makes it so much easier to install. One thing no matter what type of conduit you choose to use is that one has to run the electrical lines through the conduit. Hard conduit can be with tight bends very challenging to run the electrical lines unless you have a special tool that allows you to snake through the conduit, attach the electrical lines and then it uses an electrical motor to pull it. I choose to run my flexible conduit out in a straight line, and I had pushed through my three 6awg lines through it so that I had the wire already in the conduit. Now this does make the conduit much heavier to install, but I found it faster and easier to do it this way. You will also notice that I have a Black, White and Green wire rather than the code dictating a Black, Red and Green wire. Both Lowe's and Home Depot were out at the time of purchase the red 6awg wire. So, I did what is allowed and that is on the ends of the wire at both ends, I wrapped them with red electrical tape. I started with connecting the liquid tight end connector to the flexible conduit and attaching it to the 90 degree wire access to the panel. I pushed the wires through to the inside and reattached the liquid tight cover and then started using the brackets to attach the conduit to the house. Two things to consider, one is the over all look of the installation, sometimes the cheapest approach is not the best especially when it comes to ones significant other, wife, partner, etc., not everyone likes to see conduit. I choose to do my best to minimize the visibility of the conduit and once I paint it to match the house it will truly not show up as the wife never noticed it when she came home till after I showed here. Upon installation of the conduit with the 6 AWG wires, it was time to mount the home charger in my designated place. Here you need to make sure it is level, supported by the wall which can sometimes require additional bracing. Here you see my ChargePoint+ unit being installed on the wall. With the charger installed onto the wall, I finished up the connection of the conduit / wires into the unit. Connected the electrical supply side and the charging cable side and reinstalled the cover. With the installation of the charger unit and wiring done, it was time to focus on the circuit breaker installation side. Here I had an LED head light as I finally turned off the 200-amp circuit breaker to the house. I attached the red and black wires to the circuit breaker, installed the ground wire and then installed the circuit breaker into the panel. I also at this time wrapped each wire from the laundry outlet in proper electrical tap and a wire twist to add additional protection and secured them out of the way in the panel corner. I also at this time used my torque screwdriver to ensure proper torque on the wires. With the installation completed at the panel side, I turned back on the 200-amp circuit enabling the house to have power and was time to go enable the charger unit. Here ChargePoint+ has an outstanding cellphone app to enable you to finish up the setup of the charger. I was able to connect to the unit via WiFi and set the unit to 70 amp circuit hardwired. I also then connected it to my house WiFi for internet access. This allowed me to do a update on the unit for software. Here ChargePoint has on the left side of the unit indicators for WiFi connection. Green is good and as you can see in the picture above, I have WiFi connection and the alert is showing green so no issues with the charger. Upon using the regular ChargePoint software app on my smartphone I was able to complete setting up an account and final configuration of my charger as a home charger unit. The unit is green when not in use but ready to be used. During Charging the unit is a pulsing blue. At this point, I had a functional Level 2 240V 50amp hardwired home EV charger with CCS connector. What did this cost me, simple a total of $1,032.23 Level 2 ChargePoint+ Home Flex hardwired charger: $549.99 plus $54.99 sales tax before $200.00 rebate. Total Cost of Materials: $391.77 which was from Home Depot & Lowe's. Tools bought for the job: $110.48 which comprised of a 6 AWG wire striper and a Torque Screwdriver set from Harbor Freight. Electrical Permit: $125 from the city. Best part of this is the cheap charging we get at home at .10 cents per kW. The ChargePoint app allows me to track and monitor in real time our costs and amount used, so it will make it easy to subtract it from the electrical bill to see the house use versus the EV. The app shows that I am constantly at the 11kW controller capabilities of home charging from Kia. This brings me back to why I titled this the Good, Bad and the Ugly. New Service request is the ugly as the costs of the new service from my power supplier has costs that have never been talked about before to me and I still have to pay for the electrical use which makes this the ugly when you are looking at a five figure cost. The bad is clearly adding the new service panel and the associated costs to an electrical company to do the work, pretty much double what the auto industry has stated having a Level 2 home charger installed would actually cost. Good is for those of you who are willing to learn and do the work, a DIY install is in my humble opinion a very cheap way to go even though it did take a chunk of my time, I have no regrets about learning the process to install and dealing with my city on installation. End result is a quality home charger that will serve me well for many years. Please post any questions or comments, happy to respond on this personal journey into home charging of my EV. View full article
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