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Grading the Revolution

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C&G Member Article – “Grading the Revolution”
By z28luvr01
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Many of us remember the now infamous car-carrier ad for Chevrolet that debuted during the New Years Eve 2004 festivities. That ad represented the start of the “An American Revolution” campaign for the bowtie brand, retiring the lamented “We’ll Be There” campaign for cars and the stalwart “Like a Rock” campaign for trucks. At the heart of “An American Revolution” was the release of 10 new or significantly redesigned vehicles over the next 20 months starting January 2004. With that time just about completed, and the 10 new cars and trucks are either at dealerships now or arriving soon, now is an opportune time to take a look at the results of the “An American Revolution” campaign, examining each of the ten new vehicles and their relevance in today’s marketplace while giving some thoughts as to the overall success of the program.

Aveo
Grade: A-

The Aveo is based off the Daewoo Kalos, which also is the foundation for the Canada-only Pontiac Wave. The Aveo is currently available in two bodystyles: a four-door sedan and a five-door hatchback. Power comes from an Opel-sourced 1.6L four-cylinder that makes 103hp at 6000rpm, and to get that power to the ground buyers have a choice of a five-speed manual or a four-speed automatic. Pricing starts at $9,995 for both the sedan and the hatch, and loaded with options each can reach the mid-teens.
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Many, including myself, balked at the idea of a subcompact, Korean built Chevrolet. I questioned GM’s belief that it needed two cars to handle the small-car segment. Well, not only was I wrong, I could never have predicted that GM’s small-car strategy would begin playing out at other manufacturers, namely Honda, Ford, and Nissan, all of whom have committed to releasing vehicles lower in price than the Civic, Focus, and Sentra, respectively. The Aveo has sold very well since its introduction, becoming one of the best selling subcompacts out there. That honor is pretty well deserved, too, as the car offers buyers a lot for this price range, including lost of cargo space, a fairly roomy (and well-put-together) interior, power that matches the competition, and fuel economy that leads the competition. Exterior styling is rather quirky (especially the front fascia), but nothing that won’t grow on you after a couple of days of ownership.

Colorado
Grade: B

Chevrolet replaced the long-in-the-tooth S10 with an all-new Colorado that was co-developed with Isuzu. It is available in numerous cab configuration (standard, extended, crew) and suspension packages (ZQ8 sport, Z85 standard, Z71 off road). Similar in size to the S10, the Colorado is powered by four or five cylinder engines derived from the highly successful Vortec 4200 I6 in the Trailblazer – the 175hp Vortec 2800 I4 and the 220hp Vortec 3500 I5. Either of these engines can be coupled to both a five speed manual and a four speed automatic. Pricing for the Colorado begins at $15,990 for a base 2WD standard cab model, and well equipped versions can approach $30,000.
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The Colorado is a good truck that needed to be great. Given that the S10 languished in Chevy’s lineup for 11 years having received little more than a new nose and a new interior, just about anything Chevrolet could have released would have been an improvement. Unfortunately, the Colorado was barely competitive when it was first released, and now that almost all small truck manufacturers have since released new or redesigned competitors, it is now behind the pack, especially given the price Chevy is asking for one. The Colorado kept the S10’s tidy compact truck dimensions while the competition got bigger and more powerful. Chevy also has an uphill battle of a task trying to explain why five cylinders are better than six. However, take the competition out of the equation, and the Colorado is a wonderful, capable truck, and the sales numbers indicate that it resonates well with some buyers. Both engine choices suit the truck well and give decent fuel economy. The exterior styling enjoys the same smooth, timeless quality that adorned many Chevy trucks in the past.

Corvette
Grade: A

The sixth generation Corvette was first shown to the public in January 2004. Using an evolved version of the Y-body (which is now shared with the Cadillac XLR), the new Corvette is smaller, lighter, more powerful, and more agile than its predecessor. This is reflected in the car’s exterior design, which can best be described as a tauter, leaner, more aggressive version of the outgoing fifth-generation. As with previous Corvettes, both coupe and convertible bodystyles are available. The Corvette also receives an all-new interior that does away with the cheapness that plagued previous Corvettes. In its place is a cockpit that features soft-touch materials, tight fitting panels, and contrasting colors. Power comes from a 400hp LS2 V8, which represents the most standard horsepower ever offered in a Corvette. Available transmissions include a six speed manual and a four speed automatic. Pricing begins at $44,600, in actuality a few hundred dollars cheaper than the outgoing base Corvette. However, fully loaded convertibles can approach $60,000.

While the fifth generation put Corvette back on the map as a relevant high performance sports car, the sixth generation establishes it as a full-fledged supercar ready to take on, and beat, some of best the world has to offer. Once a straight line-only bruiser, Corvette now a sophisticated, refined, precise handling machine that outdoes cars costing several times more. Dollar for dollar, the Corvette is the best sports car out there.
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Corvette Z06
Grade: A+

After a one year hiatus, the Z06 moniker returns to the Corvette lineup for model year 2006. A beneficiary of Chevrolet’s highly successful Corvette racing program, the Z06 ups the ante over the base Corvette via a hand-built 505hp, 7.0 liter LS7 engine. Carbon fiber body panels and extensive use of aluminum in the suspension helped shave even more weight off the already svelte base car. The end result: a street legal race car. The performance numbers speak for themselves: 0-60 in 3.7 seconds. 198mph top speed. A Nurburgring lap time of 7:43 . Couple all of that the fact that the Z06 can be had for a “paltry” $65,000, and it appears that Chevrolet has redefined the exotic supercar. In Chevy’s push to turn itself into a serious global auto manufacturer, the credibility of the Z06 provides a huge image boost.

Cobalt
Grade: A-

Late 2004 saw the arrival of Chevy’s replacement for the Cavalier, the Cobalt. Built off the global Delta chassis that debuted underneath the 2003 Saturn Ion, the Cobalt enjoys an excellent basis for a premium compact car, far superior to the 23 year old J body in every way. Cobalts come in two body styles, coupe and sedan. Both have a crisp, clean exterior that encases one of the best small car interiors. Chevrolet initially offered two engines in the Cobalt – a 2.2L Ecotec that makes 145hp and, for the top-of-the-line SS Supercharged, a 2.0L supercharged Ecotec that makes 205hp. For 2006 Chevy added a 171hp 2.4L Ecotec available in Cobalt SS coupes and sedans. The 2.2 and the 2.4 can be mated to either a five speed manual or a four speed automatic, while the 2.0 is only available with the five speed manual. Cobalts start at $14,190 and top out at around $23,000 for a fully loaded SS Supercharged.
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The Cobalt has proved to the pundits that GM can build a competent small car. The greatest shortcoming of the Cobalt would have to be the hard plastics that make up some of the interior. However, unlike many Chevrolets before it, they are substantial and do not have that hollow feeling when you touch them. Indications of Chevrolet's progress in the compact car segment can be found in many reviews found in auto magazines. While the Cavalier was frequently mentioned in compact car comparisons solely for comic relief, the Cobalt is now viewed as a serious threat to the category once dominated by imports. Some even go so far as to say that the Cobalt is the best small car available. Furthermore, the SS Supercharged is getting positive attention both the street and the track, gaining serious credibility in the sport compact segment. Sales totals for the Cobalt are on pace to eclipse those of the Cavalier, which despite being uncompetitive still sold pretty well. All in all, early indications are that the Cobalt will be a success for Chevrolet.

Equinox
Grade: B-

Arriving in spring 2004, the Equinox was billed as a replacement for the Suzuki-based Tracker. Chevrolet’s new small SUV is in actuality similar in size to the now departed Blazer. Built off the Theta architecture shared with the Saturn Vue, the Equinox comes with just one powertrain option: a 185hp 3.4L V6 mated to a five speed automatic. Buyers do have their choice of FWD-only or AWD, though. Equinoxes start at $22,345 and can top out near $30,000.
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The Equinox has sold rather well since its introduction, and with good cause. It is a handsome looking SUV with a lot of room and a wealth of features. The interior is highly configurable, featuring fold-flat rear seating and a sliding rear seat. Several things prevent the Equinox from being the segment leader, however. Not the least of which is the engine. While few owners have actually complained about a lack of power in the Equinox, on paper the engine lags far behind similarly priced competition, in many cases eliminating the Chevy from many buyers’ shopping lists before they have the chance to experience it in person. In addition, much of the interior looks and feels cheap, something that should not happen in an SUV whose transaction prices are typically in the mid $20,000s. As if these problems were not enough, GM may have very well stymied whatever sales success the Equinox had by deciding to rebadge it as the Pontiac Torrent; only the front fascia, taillights, wheels, interior bits, and some suspension and steering tweaks differentiate the two.

Malibu/Malibu Maxx
Grade: B+

An all-new Malibu sedan bowed for the 2004 model year on the new Epsilon architecture shared globally with the Pontiac G6, Saab 9-3, and Opel Vectra. Alongside it (albeit a few months afterward) came a five door “wagon” variant, dubbed Malibu Maxx, that rides on an extended version of Epsilon. Both wore what at the time was to be Chevy’s new corporate look: a dominating crossbar on the front of the grille with scallops on the sides that evoke lines from Chevy’s past. Each also received an interior that vastly improved on the previous Malibu. Powertrain choices include a 145hp 2.2L 4cyl and a 200hp 3.5L V6, both of which can be had solely with a four speed automatic transmission. People looking for a Maxx will only find one with the V6; there are no plans to give it the 4cyl. Malibus start at around $17,990, and a fully loaded Maxx can reach the low $30,000s.

Initially, the new Malibus started off selling very slowly before picking up a lot of steam. In a segment where pleasing the many is a must, the Malibu’s exterior styling was a turnoff for quite a few, seeing it as a combination of bland and awkward. Some referred to the front fascia as being “truck-like” or “pug-nosed”. The interior, while improved over the previous Malibu, contains some cheap bits, an ugly steering wheel, and the same overall quirkiness that the exterior possesses. Despite these negatives, the Malibus have a lot going for them. The Malibu provides a nice value for customers, in many cases buyers can get a V6 Malibu for the price of a competitor’s 4cyl model. Both engine options deliver excellent gas mileage, with the V6 being exceptionally fuel efficient. The interior is rather utilitarian and in some cases innovative. The Maxx, like the Equinox, features a rear seat that has fore and aft adjustment, and also has a fixed rear skylight so rear-seat passengers can take in the view overhead.

Chevy deserves credit for showing a commitment to the Malibu twins, giving them incremental updates each model year since their debut. The 2006 model year features restyled, more attractive front fascias, and a seriously upgraded interior appearance that includes contrasting color combinations and a much nicer steerng wheel.

Uplander
Grade: C-

For 2005, Chevy performed minor cosmetic surgery on the Venture minivan and renamed it Uplander. The higher noseline is meant to give it an SUV-like stance that GM believes will shake off some of the negative image associated with minivans. The Uplander also receives a new engine (the same 3.5L V6 found in the Malibu) and an upgraded interior. Uplanders start out at $21,990 but can top out well into the mid $30,000s.
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Simply put, the Uplander is an example of GM at its worst. It is well behind the pack in terms of size, available power, features, looks, and refinement. Even Kia, a newcomer to the segment, offers a better minivan for the money than GM. And to top things off, there are three other minivans just like it in GM’s portfolio, each mainly differentiated by front fascias and interior trim. The Uplander is by no means a bad vehicle, but it doesn’t take too much research to find a minivan that offers more to customers.

Impala
Grade: A-

A restyled Impala bowed for the 2006 model year, featuring an all new exterior, interior, and engine options. Outside, the Impala gains a cleaned up, more upscale, albeit more anonymous and less "Impala-ish" exterior. The redone interior is vastly improved over the previous generation Impala. Gone is the mishmash of various colored hard cheap plastics, replaced by a simple, clean layout that is more inviting for both driver and passengers. Three engines are available in the Impala: a 3.5L V6 that produces 211hp, a 3.9L V6 that produces 242hp, and, for the SS version, a 303hp 5.3L V8. All three engines are controlled by a four-speed automatic. The starting MSRP for an Impala is $21,990, and fully loaded SS versions can reach the low $30,000s.

The 2000-2005 Impala wound up becoming a surprise hit for Chevrolet, eventually becoming the fourth best selling car in the country. Chevy has fixed the previous car’s shortcomings and added more advantages. The new Impala is a tremendous value, offering a lot to customers for their dollar, particularly in the power department. To put things in perspective, the 2006 Impala’s base engine outpowers the top-of-the-line engine in the Impala of just three model years ago. The new V8-powered SS should make its mark as one of the best performing Impalas of all time. For all the added power, the new engines do not bring with them the penalty of poor fuel economy. These engines, even the V8, all equal or surpass the MPG ratings of engines offered by competing models. While the 2006 Impala has only been available for a couple of months, it has all the makings of a sales success for Chevrolet.

HHR
Grade: B+

The HHR (short for “Heritage High Roof”) is a new-for-2006 vehicle. It shares the Delta chassis currently with the Cobalt and Ion. Instead of a traditional wagon based off the Cobalt, Chevy decided to create a retro body that’s based heavily on the 1949 Suburban. The end result is a different looking vehicle that offers compact car buyers an option if they need cargo space that cannot be had in a Cobalt. The HHR features the same 2.2L and 2.4L Ecotecs that are in its platform mates, and both engines can be had with either a five speed manual or a four speed automatic. Pricing for the HHR begins ar $15,990 and tops out at just over $23,000.

The HHR has the unenviable task of overcoming all the negative press it received before pictures of it were even released to the public. Despite being written off as a PT Cruise clone, sales are off to a very brisk start and reviews have been mostly positive. The HHR in person is quite a pleasant surprise. Its appearance in pictures is deceiving, as its dimensions are in reality very tidy. It’s obviously retro, which may turn off some buyers who want a contemporarily styled car, but it gets credit for being a unique wagon alternative. The comments about the Cobalt’s interior also apply to the HHR’s, tight fitting panels, attractive design, and hard but substantial plastic are all present in the HHR. Performance and fuel ecomony for the HHR are both slightly lower than in the Cobalt, due to the HHR’s larger, less aerodynamic body.

Monte Carlo
Grade: C+

The Monte Carlo received modest exterior upgrades for the 2006 model year, not nearly as comprehensive an upgrade as the one the Impala received. A new nose, revised tail lamps, and half of an upgraded dashboard are the Monte’s main appearance upgrades. Engine and transmission options are identical to those offered in the Impala. Monte Carlos start at $21,990, and a fully loaded SS can reach the low $30,000s.

The retouched exterior and interior do give the Monte a slightly more refined look, but the car needs more, and given its status as the best selling large coupe, it deserves more as well. The exterior desperately needs a clean-up similar to the one the Impala received, so that it doesn’t need “NASCAR inspired” ground effects and spoilers to be a good looking car. By the time the model cycle is over, this basic body style will have been in existence for over 10 years. This is not to say that the Monte is terrible, as it is still a roomy, well equipped, decent (if unspectacular) handling coupe, and the additional power does make things interesting, especially in the V8 powered SS, which could very well be the fastest Monte Carlo to date.

Commercials, Advertisements, etc.
Grade: B+

The “car carrier” commercial got people talking about a Chevrolet commercial for the first time in a very long time. Other memorable ads followed, including the ads accompanying the Cobalt launch and a Corvette ad that ended up being more controversial than it should have been. Chevrolet was giving viewers and readers some product-based advertising that ceased to be a part of GM’s marketing strategy over a decade ago. During this time Chevrolet also began an aggressive sponsorship effort, earning spots on major league baseball games and popular reality TV shows. While it is true that the “stock footage with voiceover” ads have returned and the campaign has lost a lot of its initial luster, it has done its job in bringing positive attention to Chevrolet products.

Conclusion

It is easy to tell that Chevrolet is in a much better position now than it was before “An American Revolution” began. No longer is Chevrolet the laughingstock in the compact and midsized car segments. Its flagship vehicle is arguably the standard bearer for exotic sports cars. During the campaign Chevrolet reached its goal of selling three million vehicles, becoming the best selling passenger car brand in the US, no small feat for a brand that not too long ago had no identity and was perceived as a maker of behind-the-pack, “me-too” vehicles.

Despite these advances, Chevy still has a lot of work to do. It still lacks a buzz-generating “wow” vehicle in the midsized market that turns the segment upside down. The trucks and SUVs are competent but losing some steam in the sales race to newer competing models, putting a lot of pressure on the forthcoming redesigned full-sized trucks to be nothing short of fantastic.

At this point, with the “10 Vehicles in 20 Months” push now complete, the question comes to mind as to whether or not to continue the “An American Revolution” campaign. My suggestion is to keep it, only if GM Marketing can recreate the initial buzz that accompanied the first ads in the campaign. Using “An American Revolution” would still be appropriate, as the new full-sized trucks are just some of the new products in the pipeline for Chevy.

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Wow...nice article, Z28!

Very impressed with your writings/thoughts...and I agree with you on most everything.


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Great read and great review. This should be sent to General Motors...awaiting anxiously the reviews on the new Avalanche/Tahoe/Escalade.

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I'd swap the ratings on the Equinox and Malibu...and lower the Cobalt rating. Cobalt's interior is much too cheap in person, though it photographs well.

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Good idea for an article. I'll grade these products by how good they are compared to the competition, not if they are good for sales or compared to their predecesors. Let's see, "A" is excellent, "B" is above average, "C" is supposed to be average, "D" is below average, and "F" is terrible. Aveo: C- (what's not below average about this car?) Cobalt: C (has not one one comparison test, mid-pack finishes at best) Colorado: D+ (better than the Ranger, but nothing else) Corvette: A- (interior cheapness holds it back) Equinox: B- (nice looks, crappy engine) Impala: C (it reeks average/bland/dull) HHR: C+ (a decent knockoff of the PT, but loses some comparos to it (amazing) and adds nothing to the market) Malibu: C (ugly, dull, and cheap looking) Monte Carlo: C- (still ugly and average) Uplander: F+ (it MIGHT beat the Freestar, whoopee) Average: C- Except the Corvette, none of these products are best of breed or world class for their price point. They are OK, but OK gets you a "C". Mark

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Good idea for an article.

I'll grade these products by how good they are compared to the competition, not if they are good for sales or compared to their predecesors.

Let's see, "A" is excellent, "B" is above average, "C" is supposed to be average, "D" is below average, and "F" is terrible.

Aveo: C- (what's not below average about this car?)
Cobalt: C (has not one one comparison test, mid-pack finishes at best)
Colorado: D+ (better than the Ranger, but nothing else)
Corvette: A- (interior cheapness holds it back)
Equinox: B- (nice looks, crappy engine)
Impala: C (it reeks average/bland/dull)
HHR: C+ (a decent knockoff of the PT, but loses some comparos to it (amazing) and adds nothing to the market)
Malibu: C (ugly, dull, and cheap looking)
Monte Carlo: C- (still ugly and average)
Uplander: F+ (it MIGHT beat the Freestar, whoopee)

Average: C-

Except the Corvette, none of these products are best of breed or world class for their price point.  They are OK, but OK gets you a "C".

Mark

[post="23224"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


it really iratates me when people open there mouth when they dont know everything..the hhr and the cobalt HAVE won comparison test, the cobalt was even picked over the acura rsx type-s, and it was by one of the biased rags

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Great read, Z28. I agree with most of what you have said. Your ratings may be a tad optimistic, but your comments are bang on. The most important point is GM can't just sit back. Already Toyota has replacement for the Echo that takes away the Aveo's two biggest advantages: interior size and the fact that the Echo was FUGLY from any angle. The cars demand 2nd year refreshes and 3rd year bigger changes to keep the leasing customers happy, if nothing else. Toyota and Honda do it. Why can't we?

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Aveo: B (kinda funjy but safe good milage cheap and reliable) Cobalt: A- (Great car needs a high milage engine option and a little more refinement) Colorado: C+ (Great Chasis held back by powertrains need 5300 DOD v8 and new interior) Corvette: A (Exotic level perfromance for 41k and change) Equinox: B+ (Very Competent mini ute with great ergonomics and fuel econemy. Could use a better powertain though the one it has is not horrible) Impala: A- (Takes the W-body to its topmost potential and than some. Competitve car with good quality) HHR: B (Needs a little more juice under the hood nice interior) Malibu: A- (with the MCE the Malibu now has a broad range of competitve engines. This car is very high quality and sells largley because of its very good value rating) Monte Carlo: B (Some dont like the refersh but I do) Uplander: D (Waste of time) Overall grade B+

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A very good read.. I would have to agree with most of what was said.... The only two that stink would be the Uplander and the Colorado. Everything else at this point is pretty solid. I wouldn't even worry too much about the Uplander though...since it is now on deathwatch...the new crossovers..should be out in less than a couple of years.. Time to get out of the minivan market anyways.... Rumor is that the Uplander is done when the 2007s are. As for the colorado-they need to fix that-FAST. :angry:

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I'd swap the ratings on the Equinox and Malibu...and lower the Cobalt rating.  Cobalt's interior is much too cheap in person, though it photographs well.

[post="23220"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


That would just be a matter of opinion...I happen to like the Cobalt's interior. :)

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Good idea for an article.

I'll grade these products by how good they are compared to the competition, not if they are good for sales or compared to their predecesors.

Let's see, "A" is excellent, "B" is above average, "C" is supposed to be average, "D" is below average, and "F" is terrible.

Aveo: C- (what's not below average about this car?)
Cobalt: C (has not one one comparison test, mid-pack finishes at best)
Colorado: D+ (better than the Ranger, but nothing else)
Corvette: A- (interior cheapness holds it back)
Equinox: B- (nice looks, crappy engine)
Impala: C (it reeks average/bland/dull)
HHR: C+ (a decent knockoff of the PT, but loses some comparos to it (amazing) and adds nothing to the market)
Malibu: C (ugly, dull, and cheap looking)
Monte Carlo: C- (still ugly and average)
Uplander: F+ (it MIGHT beat the Freestar, whoopee)

Average: C-

Except the Corvette, none of these products are best of breed or world class for their price point.  They are OK, but OK gets you a "C".

Mark

[post="23224"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Keep in mind it is a matter of opinion...and if you don't like em...well...don't buy them. :rolleyes:

Many updates for these cars are being worked on as you speak....

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Guys... Chevrolet is NOT a "premium" mainstream brand. Chevrolet is a mainstream (catch-all) brand. Chevrolet has some exceptional niche vehicles to spice up its average line-up: SSR, HHR, Corvette, SS-trim, etc... etc... I agree with the original post. All Chevrolet vehicles now successfully accomplish what they are intended to do: provide attractive (but inoffensive), solid, reliable, quality transportation for the average entry-level to middle-class consumer. They aren't meant to be pseudo-luxury vehicles or premium boutique alternatives (exception to the niche vehicles & SS trim) to mainstream vehicles. You guys really expect too much from each and every brand. GM is to be all things to all people.... not just Chevrolet. The line has to be drawn somewhere for Chevrolet so the other brands can begin. I'm not talking about suppressing Chevrolet either. The SS trims provide all the attributes of the same vehicle but with a more upscale/sporty finish. That's perfectly in-line with what Chevrolet should deliver. But stop expecting a Chevrolet worthy of a Cadillac Crest but with a bow-tie (such as Avalon to Lexus, or Accord to Acura). The closest thing that comes to this is the Corvette, but even the XLR is a step above the Corvette in many respects. Let Chevrolet be Chevrolet. Once you out-grow Chevrolet and move on towards Saturn, Pontiac, Buick, Cadillac, GMC, Saab, or HUMMER... be happy for everything Chevrolet offered and provided you over the years.

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Chevy as passed the revolution test very well. They are a healthy brand. To me the weakest spot has been the Malibu...just too odd for my tastes.

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it really iratates me when people open there mouth when they dont know everything..the hhr and the cobalt HAVE won comparison test, the cobalt was even picked over the acura rsx type-s, and it was by one of the biased rags

[post="23228"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


It really irrates me when people open their mouths to tout how OK from GM is good enough. :P How about we demand and expect world class cars from the world larger car company?

To get to your point, the Cobalt SS is getting good reviews, but keep in mind it beat a 4 year old Acura. The Cobalt non-SS has not won one single comparison test I've read.

The HHR has been pitted against the PT Cruiser and I believe won one and lost one that I've read. Not too steller for a new cars vs a 5 year old car.

Mark

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Guest Josh

The HHR has been pitted against the PT Cruiser and I believe won one and lost one that I've read.  Not too steller for a new cars vs a 5 year old car.

Mark

[post="23421"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

With all do respect to your post, I do believe the only reason the HHR "lost" is due to the "me too" looks that it shares with the PT Cruiser.

Hardly a losing feature if you ask me.

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I'd like to suplement Josh's comment with the fact that anyone who looks at an HHR and a PT Cruiser and thinks they look the same is doing so with severely impaired vision. The shape, stance, and body details are all very different.....even the "retro" used on the HHR is different from the "retro" used by the PT. Chrysler used generic 1930s paddy-wagon styling cues for the PT, while the HHR sraws heavily from a specific vehicle...it's more like a miniature, FWD, 4cyl 1949 Suburban. Whether or not someone wants to ding the HHR because they see it as a copy of something else, you can't argue with the sales numbers. It is resonating well with comsumers.

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Chevy as passed the revolution test very well.  They are a healthy brand.  To me the weakest spot has been the Malibu...just too odd for my tastes.

[post="23368"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


I agree... consider that the new Cobalt, Impala, & even 2007 Tahoe all have a similar look & feel to them. It makes you wonder if the Malibu was entirely developed separate from the rest of Chevrolet's future projects (especially the interior.)

Hopefully the 2007/8 Malibu replacement will complete the revolution.

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You are being much too kind to the Impala/Monte Carlo. Yes, they have been refined and improved upon, but the fact that they are still W-bodies is a joke. Posted Image Putting V8s in outdated platforms is a poor way to try to stretch a platform a few more years. What happens when the novelty wears off? I give it a C and I'm being kind.

[post="23138"][/post]


Ok, get over the fact that it is a W-body and drive the damn thing! It is a sweet driver, better than the likes of Camry and Accord, which are only on Modified platfoms of previous generations as well!! I guess we should be damning the 2008 Malibu because it is going to be on a modified platform instead of a completely new one!

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[quote name='VenSeattle' date='Oct 3 2005, 12:34 PM']
Guys... Chevrolet is NOT a "premium" mainstream brand. Chevrolet is a mainstream (catch-all) brand. Chevrolet has some exceptional niche vehicles to spice up its average line-up: SSR, HHR, Corvette, SS-trim, etc... etc...

Hold on for a minute. You can honestly say that the SSR and Malibu/Maxx are exceptional niche vehicles? The SSR is a waste of R&D money and the Malibu/Maxx are a slap in the face to the SS badge.

:unsure:

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With all do respect to your post, I do believe the only reason the HHR "lost" is due to the "me too" looks that it shares with the PT Cruiser.

Hardly a losing feature if you ask me.

[post="23430"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


I have to agree with Josh too on this one.

Has anyone driven both? I have. They are both good cars...and HHR is a solid
car that will do quite well.

i would pick the HHR based on the fact that is is more useful, and handles quite
well.

Just depends on what you want it to do..

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Guest Josh
Who said something about the '08 Malibue because "it's not on an all new one." Man.....you're such an idiot. Kirkorean is not buying stock for NOTHING right now!

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Chevrolet 2006 Cars: Corvette: A+ Aveo: C+ Cobalt: A Malibu: B- Impala: D M/C: D- HHR: B+ Equinox: C+ Chevrolet 2006 Trucks: Silverado: A+ Colorado: A TrailBlazer: B- Tahoe: B Suburban: B SSR: B Overall Chevrolet car division: D (I'd give them an F if it was not for the superb Corvette C6/Z06) Edited by Sixty8panther

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Who said something about the '08 Malibue because "it's not on an all new one."

Man.....you're such an idiot.

Kirkorean is not buying stock for NOTHING right now!

[post="23644"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]



What? :blink:

Josh- WTF are you talking about? You lost me there.... :lol:

Man, and I thought my late night rants were bad... :P :lol:

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Chevrolet 2006 Cars:

Corvette: A+
Aveo: C+
Cobalt: A
Malibu: B-
Impala: D
M/C: D-
HHR: B+
Equinox: C+

Chevrolet 2006 Trucks:

Silverado: A+
Colorado: A
TrailBlazer: B-
Tahoe: B
Suburban: B
SSR: B

Overall Chevrolet car division: D (I'd give them an F if it was not for the superb Corvette C6/Z06)

[post="23652"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]



How come the low overall, 68?

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Great read. Thanks. The only rating I would change is the HHR. I would give it an A. It has turned out to be way more successful than anyone, except Lutz, expected.

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Great read.  Thanks.

The only rating I would change is the HHR.  I would give it an A.  It has turned out to be way more successful than anyone, except Lutz, expected.

[post="23714"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]



If you get the chance, I would drive it. It is a lot of fun. :)

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aveo hardly has leading gas mileage... a much larger civic gets better mileage than it does! heck an RSX gets better gas mileage. a malibu gets the same mileage!!! AVEO: Engine: D (pitiful) Gas Mileage: F (horrid gas mileage for size) Body Design: A- Interior Design: A- Quality (for class): A Edited by Teh Ricer Civic!

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aveo hardly has leading gas mileage... a much larger civic gets better mileage than it does! heck an RSX gets better gas mileage.

a malibu gets the same mileage!!!
AVEO:
Engine: D (pitiful)
Gas Mileage: F (horrid gas mileage for size)
Body Design: A-
Interior Design: A-
Quality (for class): A

[post="24596"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


I just hope it gets better MPG on the refresh...

Good value for a compact, though..

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I'd have to say that I agree with most of what was said, the ratings are pretty well on, a slight optimistic, but as a General Motors and Chevrolet enthusiast, isn't that what we are supposed to be? And for being an owner of a Cobalt, I love the little bugger, and if only I wasn't really badly upside down on my '01 Impala 9C1, I'd be getting either a new Impala, or an HHR (sorry, gotta love old suburban cues, even if it is fwd and a 4-banger). And I definitely agree with the comment that Chevy is NOT a premium grade car, it's the car that you get as the everyday driver, just like Pontiac would be the car you'd get to go do performance stuff with (althought right now dear Poncho isn't much in the performance department) and a Caddy is the car you get when you want to go and be all luxurious (sp?) on yourself. Overall, I love Chevy....great rides.

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...an HHR (sorry, gotta love old suburban cues, even if it is fwd and a 4-banger).


*nods*

I agree here, actually. I thought about test driving an HHR, but for whatever reason, I don't like the dashboard layout...so I didn't even test drive it. I suppose I should, because you do never know.... Still...well, we'll see.

I do, however, like the looks of it ... and cringe whenever I hear about how it looks like the PT Cruiser. Well, it might...but having seen the old Suburban cues on which it is based ... I'd say the similarities are striking and obvious....and because of that, I see less and less of the PT Cruiser in it....


Cort, "Mr MC" / "Mr Road Trip", 32swm/pig valve/pacemaker
MC:family.IL.guide.future = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/
Models.HO = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/trainroom.html
"How much longer will they be around?" ... Don Williams ... 'Old Coyote Town'

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aveo hardly has leading gas mileage... a much larger civic gets better mileage than it does! heck an RSX gets better gas mileage.

a malibu gets the same mileage!!!
AVEO:
Engine: D (pitiful)
Gas Mileage: F (horrid gas mileage for size)
Body Design: A-
Interior Design: A-
Quality (for class): A

[post="24596"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Teh,

I compared the Aveo strictly to the Rio and Accent. Both of which have worse mileage figures than the Aveo. Still, I see your point about Civics and even Malibus getting the same or better mileage. But within the subcompact class, the Aveo is technically the leader.

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How come the low overall, 68?

[post="23656"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


NO Camaro
NO Chevelle
NO Caprcie Classsic
NO RWD cars except for the expensive Vette
NO hardtop coupes
NO hardtop sedans
NO hardtop wagons
NO Body-on-Frame cars
NO manual trans. offered in most products
NO I6 engines offered in any cars
NO exciting styling on most cars (Cobalt sedan, Malibu, Impala, M/C...)

That's just a short list of stuff off the top of my head.

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.....uh, the Epica is an inline 6, although I am sure many aficionados won't consider the Epica a true Chevrolet. I lament the demise of the hardtop, too, because they resulted in some of the most beautiful designs out there. I am not an engineer, but aren't hardtops more expensive to build and could they meet current crash test standards? The last generation Camaro became too expensive and didn't sell. Body on frame? How many people still tow a boat or big trailer anymore? Manual transmission? Kills resale. Look at how many manuals Toyota and Honda really sell against their automatics. Bare in mind, our automatic is much better than theirs, too. I understand your pain, Sixty8, but being all things to all people costs money. There is only so much developmental money to go around. Although I believe not having a RWD platform could be hurting Chevrolet, I am not convinced it would sell. With gasoline prices where they are, I think the future is a little more cloudy than it was looking even 6 months ago. I, too, which GM would stop juggling names and then bringing them back. I think there is an inherent value to having a lineage, such as the Malibu or Impala had with their past. What romance is there in a G-35 anyway?

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NO Camaro
NO Chevelle
NO Caprcie Classsic
NO RWD cars except for the expensive Vette
NO hardtop coupes
NO hardtop sedans
NO hardtop wagons
NO Body-on-Frame cars
NO manual trans. offered in most products
NO I6 engines offered in any cars
NO exciting styling on most cars (Cobalt sedan, Malibu, Impala, M/C...)

That's just a short list of stuff off the top of my head.

[post="25173"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


i agree on camaro

is the chevelle really necessairy? i guess itd be a good replacement for the MC

Caprice Classic? i guess the police fleets would like it.

no RWD cars? camaro would fix that.

No hardtop coupes? uhhh isnt a hardtop something with a steel top? cause Chevy has a few of these. ditto on the others.

no BOF cars? uhmm WHY do we need them?

Manual on the 'bu might be nice (and MC)... i kinda doubt some1 would buy a manual impala...

no I6? uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh 5.3L V8 (Atlas I6 is big)....

-concour on stlying

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[quote name='Sixty8panther' date='Oct 7 2005, 09:22 AM']NO Camaro[/quote]
Possibly remidied soon.

[quote]NO Chevelle[/quote]
Pick two at most - Chevelle, Monte Carlo, Camaro

[quote]NO Caprcie Classsic[/quote]
Is that like the Caprice Classic? If so, uh, a large RWD Chevy would supplant it and is coming apparently.

[quote]NO RWD cars except for the expensive Vette[/quote]
Corvette isn't really expensive, but there is a lack of variety.

[quote]NO hardtop coupes
NO hardtop sedans
NO hardtop wagons[/quote]
Uh...Everything except the Corvette convertible is a hardtop. If you're referring to pillarless hardtops, well, I would assume frameless windows that deliver a semi-effect of being pillarless is the closest you'll get on most cars these days.

[quote]NO Body-on-Frame cars[/quote]
Yeahhhhh...

[quote]NO manual trans. offered in most products[/quote]
Offered in Cobalt, HHr, Aveo, and Corvette. Auto-only cars are the Malibu, Impala, and Monte Carlo. That's over half the lineup with available sticks. So, uh, yeahhhhh...

[quote]NO I6 engines offered in any cars[/quote]
Yeahhhhh...

[quote]NO exciting styling on most cars (Cobalt sedan, Malibu, Impala, M/C...)[/quote]
Subjective.

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Fly:

Obviously i'm referring to PILLARLESS hardtops... like the Invicta in my Signature... <_<

Posted Image

WMJ:

Transverse mounted I6? The Suzuki already has it but that's NOT what I was referring to. I mean a true full sizer with a I6 for a base and a 5.3 for a base V8 and 6.0 for the SS. MAke if BOF and call it a Caprice and you're in business.

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NO Camaro
NO Chevelle
NO Caprcie Classsic
NO RWD cars except for the expensive Vette
NO hardtop coupes
NO hardtop sedans
NO hardtop wagons
NO Body-on-Frame cars
NO manual trans. offered in most products
NO I6 engines offered in any cars
NO exciting styling on most cars (Cobalt sedan, Malibu, Impala, M/C...)

That's just a short list of stuff off the top of my head.

[post="25173"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Please tell me you are joking... :blink:

-Camaro, I will agree with you here. Chevy needs this just as badly as Pontiac needs a Fiero. Only one is possibly coming...

-Chevelle, Come on... Chevy has a full lineup as it is. Like Fly said, pick two and that's it.

-Caprice, I will also agree with you here. Chevy does need this pretty badly. May be coming, too...

-RWD cars, well, for the majority of people FWD is absolutely fine. It's better in the snow. It's more practical. That's what most people want. That's what will sell. Having a few for enthusiasts is fine... aka, the supposed Camaro joining the Vette and SSR.

-Hardtops, Considering that it's expensive to make one as safe as a regular hardtop with pillars... Don't think that will ever happen.

-BOF, Come on... stop living in the past. Unibody is better in every aspect unless you're building trucks. Get over it and move on.

-Manual trannies, Let's see... Aveo, Cobalt, HHR, Corvette, and the odditty SSR compared to the Impala, Monte Carlo, Uplander, and Malibu. Uh... most, you say? If you're counting trucks... Silverdo, Colorado, Express, and the oddity SSR compared to the Suburban, Tahoe, Avalanche, and the Equinox. (not sure on a few, but...) Uh... most, you say? I would like to see more offered, but you can't go around saying 'most' don't have them.

-No I6s, well, considering that the only one they have is the Atlas in the TB and that it is huge and can only be put in large vehicles... I don't think there is much of a chance of it being put in anything anytime soon (and it probably won't fit in the supposed Camaro; hell, it couldn't even fit in the Colorado).

-Styling, I definitely agree with you here. Chevy styling sucks, to say the least. If it isn't boring, it isn't beautiful (there are exceptions, though).

---------------------

So, Sixty8... Ever hear of grading Chevy based on what it is, not what it lacks? :rolleyes:

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Yeah, you cant cure the ills of Chevrolet by bringing back the entire lineup from 1988, that wont cut it, mostly because that was 17 years ago, most people have moved on to safer, more cost effective, more space efficient vehicles. Those who haven't aren't a big enough market to justify full-size BOFs or four different coupes or seven engine options and two transmission on every model. 68, your desired lineup would spread GM thin and wouldn't bring much in the way of profit. And who the hell buys a Chevy for "exciting styling?" Isn't that why we have Pontiac, which is the "excitement division" at least until it gets canned in 2011. :P

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And who the hell buys a Chevy for "exciting styling?" Isn't that why we have Pontiac, which is the "excitement division" at least until it gets canned in 2011.


Its not getting canned in 2011... 2016 for its 90th birthday, stupid. :rolleyes: :D

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BV: How's this. Chevy does not have ONE car right now that I would really watn and can afford. I do not have $48,000 for a Corvette and the Cobalt coupe, as nice as it is will not meet my needs for a new car. The cobalt sedan is just *blah* and the rest of the lineup is boring and uninspired. And BTW: Pontiac has the Solstice & GTO, I think there's a much better chance of Chevy getting a RWD Chevelle AND Camaro or Camaro & (RWD) M/C then there is of Pontiac getting A Solstice, Fireo & GTO.

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And BTW: Pontiac has the Solstice & GTO, I think there's a much better chance of Chevy getting a RWD Chevelle AND Camaro or Camaro & (RWD) M/C then there is of Pontiac getting A Solstice, Fireo & GTO.

No shit, Sherlock... You just figure this out?

You should just be thankful that there is a chance any of those may return. There is no chance of seeing another Fiero. I know that. However, I don't go around whining like a fucking baby about it, like you. I also don't diss something because of it, like you. That's BS.

Also, if you weren't so close-minded, there would be something from Chevy you could want and afford. I love mid-engined cars... Pontiac doesn't offer one; let alone one I can afford. Yet, it won't be the end of the world to get a different Pontiac. Edited by blackviper8891

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BV...that was the best post you have ever written. Bravo! Every word was accurate and very very true. Kudos.

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It's not about being close minded there BV, I DO NOT LIKE 95% of FWD cars. And I sure as $hit will never make PAYEMNTS on one.

Why TF should I compromise my standards? To make you and other Grand Am/Malibu/Civic/Altima driving semi-enhusiasts happy?

I never said ALL three cars (M/C Chevelle & Camaro) should be sold simultaneously but the lask of the later tow and the lackl of the first wiht RWD/manual trans. pisses me off. What the hell woulf the Ford lineup look like without the Crown Vis and Mustang? If they made two otehr bland looking FWD cars to replace those two do you think that Ford enthusiasts would be happy? <_<

I've said multiple times how I'd love to see a new ME Fiero but I'm just comparing apples to apples in terms of your making fun of my analogy.


BlackViper:
I don't go around whining like a fucking baby about it, like you. I also don't diss something because of it, like you. That's BS.


I like how you set up a whole website about how people should BUY you a Fiero, or donate money soo you can buy one etc... you're calling me a "whining fucking baby"?

That's pretty amusing. As far as Croc, well there's a reason why you're not a moderator anymore. Edited by Sixty8panther

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Yeah that was a really good post ... and atleast ur getting over the fiero not returning by saying u can always get another pontiac.....and Sixty u mentioned two cars u couldnt afford from chevy ....... thats only two out of 5 cars u could afford an aveo or cobalt or even a malibu if u lease it....is it that u dont like any other cars they offer?

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Heh... You're funny. :lol:

[quote]It's not about being close minded there BV, I DO NOT LIKE 95% of FWD cars. And I sure as $hit will never make PAYEMNTS on one.[/quote]
Exactly what I said; close-minded.

[quote]Why TF should I compromise my standards? To make you and other Grand Am/Malibu/Civic/Altima driving semi-enhusiasts happy?[/quote]
Lower your standards? ...If anything, it would raise them. And make you less close-minded.

Oh, so I'm a semi enthusiast now because I wasn't able to buy a Fiero so I settled with a Grand Am? Hey, it just wasn't the end of the world for me since I'm not close-minded like you. Okay?

[quote]I never said ALL three cars (M/C Chevelle & Camaro) should be sold simultaneously but the lask of the later tow and the lackl of the first wiht RWD/manual trans. pisses me off.[/quote]
I didn't say you did, now did I? I know exactly what you meant. Still, you rubbed the fact that a Fiero is never going to made again. Did you think I would like that?

[quote]What the hell woulf the Ford lineup look like without the Crown Vis and Mustang? If they made two otehr bland looking FWD cars to replace those two do you think that Ford enthusiasts would be happy?[/quote]
Crown Vic? You're kidding, right? It would look so much better without it. It's a disgrace to the Ford lineup. The Mustang, though, would make it worse. No one is arguing about that.

[quote]I've said multiple times how I'd love to see a new ME Fiero but I'm just comparing apples to apples in terms of your making fun of my analogy.[/quote]
Making fun of it? I can't help the chance of Chevy getting any of those is higher than the chance of Pontiac getting a Fiero. Making fun of it? Whatever... You threw it in my face, so I brought you into the real world. Deal with it.

[quote]I like how you set up a whole website about how people should BUY you a Fiero, or donate money soo you can buy one etc... you're calling me a "whining fucking baby"?[/quote]
How funny... Anyone who took that site seriously is complete and total retard. It was done as a joke. I wasn't expecting anyone to donate. I just hope you didn't take it seriously...

[quote]That's pretty amusing. As far as Croc, well there's a reason why you're not a moderator anymore.[/quote]
And there is a reason that you're not a moderator. There is also I reason that you've been suspended from here before. Also, Croc resigned as moderator. So... what exactly is your point? Edited by blackviper8891

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Haha...yes, yes the reason I am no longer a mod here is because I resigned. No other reason. I was well-liked on the mod board with only one, maybe two exceptions (out of 17 mods). And you wouldn't believe the number of PMs I received expressing happiness at my return.

But I digress...

BV, another gem of a post. Took the words out of my mouth regarding your "buy me a Fiero" site.

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Gee 68, an RSX or pretty much any other Acura shows that FWD can handle pretty damn well.

[post="25803"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]

Yep, get out on a road course and an RSX will spank a Camaro, thats what handling does. Hell, my L200 could probably take a few F-odies on a road course.

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OMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMGOMG!!!!111111oneoneonetwo

Posted Image

Rear-wheel Drive
Body-on-frame
V8-powered
Six-speed stick
Pillarless hardtop

And, aw snap, Chevy is currently making it!!!!

:rolleyes:

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Hey 68...looks like Fly found the perfect car for you! Now you can quit your bitching!

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Croc:
Hey 68...looks like Fly found the perfect car for you! Now you can quit your bitching!


How the fuck do you call the SSR a "pillarles hardtop" when it only has four pieces of glass. Shows how well you guys understand the term pillarles hardtop! :rolleyes:

BTW: only a real fu%$ing idiot would call the SSR a "car".

Other than that I'm not even going to TRY to justify my comments except to say a BMW M3 or Caddy CTS will make that same Acura look like a Citation around a racetrack. So why try to make a Caamro versus Acura comparison? Retards at GM once tried to make a FWD F-body once, thank god they didn't have you guys to give them a pat on the back as they made the Camaro and Firebird off the same platform as the Corsica & Berett.

In the mean time (since I'm done wiht this thread) ask a true Automotive Fanatic the true definition of the word "Hardtop". If he mentions the Mercedes SLK or a Chevy SSR the the guy is a fraud. Edited by Sixty8panther

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Yep, get out on a road course and an RSX will spank a Camaro, thats what handling does.  Hell, my L200 could probably take a few F-odies on a road course.

[post="25877"]<{POST_SNAPBACK}>[/post]


Not to mention the current Cobalt SS/SC, which spanks them all. In all seriousness, I would encourage anyone to take a ride down to a dealer and ask to test drive the SS/SC - especially with the G85 package (LSD, recaro seats). Sh*t, my LS Cobalt takes 90* turns at nearly 60 and cloverleafs at at least 50, with no howling from the tires. There's no reason to think the SS can't top that easily. Go ahead, give the car a fair chance. It'll be very hard to walk away from it without putting money down on it.

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If Chevrolet is to return to her former greatness, she needs an affordable, sexy and fun to drive vehicle. The Malibu and Impala are good cars. They deliver exactly what they are supposed to. The Cobalt SS is sexy and fun to drive and affordable. However, how are we going to get and keep the youth market? Just yesterday, a middle aged couple climbed out of their Volvo (?!) and wanted to see the new Impala. Too big, they proclaimed. Parked beside it was a used G-6. "Oh, I like that," the wife exclaimed. Ever enthusiastic, I declared the Maxx is the same platform and a much better value. Hate it. Off they went to the Pontiac store. Well, at least they weren't going to Acura (BTW, in the afternoon I drove a 2002 Alero GL coupe and it reminded me what a great riding/handling car that was. Chevy needs something like that. And an affordable convertible would be nice, too!)

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Hey! the G-6 is a hardtop ...... wait thats not a Chevy ........ but its still a hardtop from GM that looks normal. :booyah:

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Oh... I love you, Sixty8. You give me so much to type about... ^_^

How the fuck do you call the SSR a "pillarles hardtop" when it only has four pieces of glass. Shows how well you guys understand the term pillarles hardtop!

Technically, it is a pillarless hardtop. It's a hardtop and it has no pillars...

BTW: only a real fu%$ing idiot would call the SSR a "car".

Uh... The SSR is classified as a car and a truck on Chevy's own website.

Other than that I'm not even going to TRY to justify my comments except to say a BMW M3 or Caddy CTS will make that same Acura look like a Citation around a racetrack. So why try to make a Caamro versus Acura comparison? Retards at GM once tried to make a FWD F-body once, thank god they didn't have you guys to give them a pat on the back as they made the Camaro and Firebird off the same platform as the Corsica & Berett.

Well.. I doubt they will. Beat it, yes. Embarrass it like a Citation, not even close. The Cobalt SS SC handles better than it, though, and according to MT's test data... went throught the slalom faster than a CTS. Say what? Is that possible?

In the mean time (since I'm done wiht this thread) ask a true Automotive Fanatic the true definition of the word "Hardtop". If he mentions the Mercedes SLK or a Chevy SSR the the guy is a fraud.

Can't handle reality anymore, eh?

I don't think he'd be a fraud, I just think he'd be open-minded unlike you. :D

Here's the real definition of a hardtop, and guess what... Those you mentioned are, indeed, hardtops. Definition of Hardtop Edited by blackviper8891

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Uh... The SSR is classified as a car and a truck on Chevy's own website.


Somehow, this doesn't surprise me.

Chevrolet claims they are currently making the impala, malibu and monte carlo ... but I don't see them available in RWD.

Chevrolet also claims, on their website, that the 3rd generation MC is 1978-1988. Yet, the 1981 Chevrolet Monte Carlo brochure indicates a "new generation" of MC ... beginning, of course, in 1981.

*shrugs*


But, seriously, guys ... what's with all of the back'n'forth jabs? I'm sorry, but if we're frustrated, shouldn't we be taking it out on the COMPANY ... not each other individually?


And, for the record, I've "settled" twice before ... and considering doing it a third time ... only because I can't see myself driving anything but a Chevrolet (let alone anything but a Monte Carlo, even though I've owned 2 non-MCs) and I can't stand the thought of subjecting my '87 MC LS to winter (aka RUST) for a 3rd winter. It is NOT (contrary to popular opinion/belief) due to the fact that it is RWD.

*sighs*


Cort, "Mr MC" / "Mr Road Trip", 32swm/pig valve/pacemaker
MC:family.IL.guide.future = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/
Models.HO = http://www.chevyasylum.com/cort/trainroom.html
"You've made a fool of everyone" ... Jet ... 'Look What You've Done'

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I dont get how 68 doesnt think that the SSR is a pillarless hardtop i mean hello no pillars hardtop fits the discription dont ya think? .... did anyone see the other color combos availble on the SSR they are so nice.

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Why don't you click on BV's hardtop definition link... guess what's pops up?

a classic Catalina hardtop.

Posted Image


Look here's waht it comes down to... the SSR is a retractable hardtop. It has frameless windows since it's a convertible but only has ONE side window... it's like calling a 1955 hunderbird a pillarless hardtop... retarded. There's no place for a central pillar, no back seat and no rear side glass. In either case it's not a car, same as a Equinox is NOT a truck. I hate all these clueless marketing types Bullshitting everyone about the true definitions that have been establilshed and are/were very specific. If I hear one more retard call the new Benz CLS a four-door-coupe I'm going to slap them.

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Look here's waht it comes down to... the SSR is a retractable hardtop. It has frameless windows since it's a convertible but only has ONE side window... it's like calling a 1955 hunderbird a pillarless hardtop... retarded. There's no place for a central pillar, no back seat and no rear side glass. In either case it's not a car, same as a Equinox is NOT a truck. I hate all these clueless marketing types Bullshitting everyone about the true definitions that have been establilshed and are/were very specific. If I hear one more retard call the new Benz CLS a four-door-coupe I'm going to slap them.

I will agree with you here... I hate when people ignore the truth and try to write something off differently than what it is. But it happens and let me make my point.

As for the whole hardtop definition. You said pillarless hardtop. You never specified whether it was fixed, removable, or retracting. I took advantage of that. That and the SSR is still a pillarless hardtop. It has a hardtop and no pillars. It doesn't matter than it retracts and couldn't have pillars... It is still just that. A pillarless hardtop. There is no way you can deny that... (unless you're retarded)

Mmkay? :lol: :D :P

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Check the sig. You happy? <_< :rolleyes:

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I hate when people ignore the truth and try to write something off differently than what it is. But it happens....


*chuckles devilishly*

Yep, it sure does happen ... and it appears that a certain car company (no names mentioned, of course) has mastered the ability to write something off differently than what it is....

Heh....irony rocks ;).

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Chevy is trying. I will give them that, but they have alot of work to do just to be competitive with other makes on the same level, I feel that the real revolution will happen at Saturn in the next year or two as the Sky, Aura, and the new Ion start to roll into the showrooms.

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[quote name='Satty' date='08 October 2005 - 01:06 PM' timestamp='1128798399' post='25609']
Isn't that why we have Pontiac, which is the "excitement division" at least until it gets canned in 2011. :P
[/quote]
God I'm good.

Edited by Satty

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closest without going over.

[img]http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/Technology/images/the-price-is-right-bob-barker.jpg[/img]

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2011? That seems uncharacteristically charitable of you. :P

Edited by FAPTurbo

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