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wildcat

GME to invest $9B in Opel

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€9billion, not dollars. That's a lot of money. Makes sense seeing as how Opel is well ahead in making efficient cars, in both size and mileage.

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€9billion, not dollars.

Yes, you're right. Euro 9 billion.

But I'm surprised neither of you guys said anything about "20 new models" ( ! ).

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9 billion Euros is a lot of money: USD 13.95 billion @ USD1.55/1Euro

Edited by ZL-1
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How big is the European market? To have 20 new models and only 10% market share seems like too many models for only 10% market share. Chevy only has 16 models (14 if you don't count Cobalt coupe + sedan seperate and Aveo sedan and 5-door seperate), and they have the Avalanche, Silverado, Tahoe, Suburban, and Trailblazer, all vehicles Opel doesn't have anything similar to. So, Opel is going to have 20 vehicles in the same areas of the market that Chevy has 9 (or 11, depending on how you look at it)? Seems excessive.

I wonder how many of these models will make it over here as Saturns? Saturn need not grow bigger than 8 or 9 models. You can have the Corsa (Fit competitor), Astra (Civic), Aura (Accord), Vue (CR-V), Sky (S2000), Outlook (Pilot), and the only Hondas you don't have a competitor for are the Ridgeline and Element, and that's only 6 models. Saturn doesn't need anything bigger than the Aura, and I don't see how GM could justify them getting such a vehicle when Buick is having a hard time getting one, so there's no need for any more cars, other than an electric vehicle as the article talks about. So, add an electric and you're at 7 models, perhaps a mini-SUV (smaller than Vue) and you'd be at 8. There's absolutely no other vehicle that Saturn could need, and this is the same market that Opel is going after. I don't see how Opel needs 20 models. Only thing I can think of is Opel is developing vehicles for other brands (Chevy) in other markets.

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Some of those models will be probably be sold in Latin America as Chevrolets, some as Saturns in NA, so you cannot look just at the European market's size to gauge the reach of this investment.

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How big is the European market? To have 20 new models and only 10% market share seems like too many models for only 10% market share. Chevy only has 16 models (14 if you don't count Cobalt coupe + sedan seperate and Aveo sedan and 5-door seperate), and they have the Avalanche, Silverado, Tahoe, Suburban, and Trailblazer, all vehicles Opel doesn't have anything similar to. So, Opel is going to have 20 vehicles in the same areas of the market that Chevy has 9 (or 11, depending on how you look at it)? Seems excessive.

The European market is very different from that in North America. Europeans like plenty of variety when it comes to models, bodystyles, trim and engine configurations. The Focus alone comes in 171 bodyshell/engine/trim variants.

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The European market is very different from that in North America. Europeans like plenty of variety when it comes to models, bodystyles, trim and engine configurations.

The American market is no different; we just don't get all those configuration options offered to us.

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How big is the European market? To have 20 new models and only 10% market share seems like too many models for only 10% market share. Chevy only has 16 models (14 if you don't count Cobalt coupe + sedan seperate and Aveo sedan and 5-door seperate), and they have the Avalanche, Silverado, Tahoe, Suburban, and Trailblazer, all vehicles Opel doesn't have anything similar to. So, Opel is going to have 20 vehicles in the same areas of the market that Chevy has 9 (or 11, depending on how you look at it)? Seems excessive.

I wonder how many of these models will make it over here as Saturns? Saturn need not grow bigger than 8 or 9 models. You can have the Corsa (Fit competitor), Astra (Civic), Aura (Accord), Vue (CR-V), Sky (S2000), Outlook (Pilot), and the only Hondas you don't have a competitor for are the Ridgeline and Element, and that's only 6 models. Saturn doesn't need anything bigger than the Aura, and I don't see how GM could justify them getting such a vehicle when Buick is having a hard time getting one, so there's no need for any more cars, other than an electric vehicle as the article talks about. So, add an electric and you're at 7 models, perhaps a mini-SUV (smaller than Vue) and you'd be at 8. There's absolutely no other vehicle that Saturn could need, and this is the same market that Opel is going after. I don't see how Opel needs 20 models. Only thing I can think of is Opel is developing vehicles for other brands (Chevy) in other markets.

Because GME is the tail that wags the GM dog!

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The American market is no different; we just don't get all those configuration options offered to us.

In the US, though, we usually only get one bodystyle per model from the US automakers....

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Ugh, what a waste. All this, for another sanitized, passionless generation of Asstras? Seems a high tab for an automotive sleeping pill.
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Ugh, what a waste. All this, for another sanitized, passionless generation of Asstras? Seems a high tab for an automotive sleeping pill.

The world wants fuel efficient small FWD cars...that's reality..it's only the US that's obsessed with 6000lb trucks and SUVs..

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The world wants fuel efficient small FWD cars...that's reality..it's only the US that's obsessed with 6000lb trucks and SUVs..

That is a quite stereotypical comment. No offense.

There are people in the United States who want to buy more efficient cars.

But who says all efficient cars must be small and front-wheel drive?

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That is a quite stereotypical comment. No offense.

True, but like all stereotypes, it's based in fact....I'm amazed at the number of monster trucks and SUVs I see in my daily commute...driven by one person.

There are people in the United States who want to buy more efficient cars.

True, but they are in the minority..

But who says all efficient cars must be small and front-wheel drive?

The most efficient are small and FWD. Myself, I'd like to see midsize and larger RWD cars offered with efficient diesels, but I don't see that happening anytime soon here..

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Because GME is the tail that wags the GM dog!

And this explains why they need 20 models cars and crossovers that are midsize or smaller how?

Unless 20 models means if the Astra has a 3-door, 5-door, sedan, Astravan, and convertible, that that is 5 models right there. Corsa has 3-door, 5-door, and Corsavan, 3 models to make 8. If this is how models is counted than 20 does not seem like so many... but if that counts as 2 models, then 20 is way too many and there'd be lots of cannibalization. If you look at it that way Opel already has 17 models...

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And this explains why they need 20 models cars and crossovers that are midsize or smaller how?

Unless 20 models means if the Astra has a 3-door, 5-door, sedan, Astravan, and convertible, that that is 5 models right there. Corsa has 3-door, 5-door, and Corsavan, 3 models to make 8. If this is how models is counted than 20 does not seem like so many... but if that counts as 2 models, then 20 is way too many and there'd be lots of cannibalization. If you look at it that way Opel already has 17 models...

Could be..maybe they are (incorrectly) using 'model' to mean bodystyles and trim levels. To me, a 'model' is a named product line (Astra, Vectra, Corsa) within a brand (Opel)..

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Moltar, I would drive a small, efficient car... but I need one that will hold my interest... like a RWD, 4 seater, turbo Ecotec, manual transmission Pontiac coupe.
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Because GME is the tail that wags the GM dog!

well, 2/3+ of GM's worldwide sales are outside NA, so maybe this alright. One thing is for sure, with Saturn the way it is now, Americans can benefit. More and more the INSIGNIA is appealing to me.....especially if it has a v6/stick combo.

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Moltar, I would drive a small, efficient car... but I need one that will hold my interest... like a RWD, 4 seater, turbo Ecotec, manual transmission Pontiac coupe.

I'd love to see something like that...I'm not holding my breath that it will happen, though.

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True, but like all stereotypes, it's based in fact....I'm amazed at the number of monster trucks and SUVs I see in my daily commute...driven by one person.

Strange. In my area, I am noticing a higher number of cars, even a good percentage of them compact even, than I have noticed before. Sure, I still see plenty of full-sized trucks and SUVs around here, too. I am in Kentucky after all, and people like their V8 Silverados, F-150s, and Rams. But I think more and more buyers are starting to consider their choices with wisdom rather than impulse.

True, but they are in the minority.

I suppose I like being in a minority then. :AH-HA_wink:

The most efficient are small and FWD. Myself, I'd like to see midsize and larger RWD cars offered with efficient diesels, but I don't see that happening anytime soon here..

Yes, smaller cars are the most efficient, and they are also usually their most efficient when equipped with a diesel engine. As for being front-wheel drive, that is subjective. There are examples of front-drive subcompact and compact cars being actually less frugal concerning mpg than their rear-drive counterparts (in the era of the Seventies and Eighties).

Front-drive compact and subcompact cars do have or can present advantages in packaging, however, over one engineered to be rear-drive, especially if the car is a subcompact.

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The American market is no different; we just don't get all those configuration options offered to us.

The American market and European market are enormously different. For example, the US company car market is miniscule; the general public often regard small cars as cheap transportation; diesel emissions regulations and the scant availability of low sulphur diesel mean that derv sales are practically non-existent there; the thirst for SUVs remains far higher there than it does in Europe, which prefers wagons for load-hauling. Legislatively it is isolated from the rest of the world automotively; that means the raft of engine options founds in cars from the Yaris to A4 to Golf to Astra are pretty much whittled down to one or two choices in North America.

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The American market and European market are enormously different. For example, the US company car market is miniscule; the general public often regard small cars as cheap transportation; diesel emissions regulations and the scant availability of low sulphur diesel mean that derv sales are practically non-existent there; the thirst for SUVs remains far higher there than it does in Europe, which prefers wagons for load-hauling. Legislatively it is isolated from the rest of the world automotively; that means the raft of engine options founds in cars from the Yaris to A4 to Golf to Astra are pretty much whittled down to one or two choices in North America.

It is ironic, really.

We here in America take pride in freedom of choice. But when it comes time to buy a car, we do not have all of the choices Europe does concerning the engine of a car.

Even Canada has a handful more choices than we do.

I would like to see diesels here in 75 percent of the cars sold here. I think something the size of a Pontiac G8 with a diesel and a manual transmission has the potential to be a beast of a sleeper, with something as simple as an ECU retuning. But our government is blissfully ignorant and over-restrictive of them, thinking they are all smog-producing, clacking and chattering, old-tech engines that are the biggest contributors to the environmental decline. I find it surprising that they are somehow still available in full-sized pickups here. :rolleyes:

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I guess I must be odd, liking both compact cars and full size trucks/suvs... each has their place. So many people talk like everyone must "give up" one for the other...

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It is ironic, really.

We here in America take pride in freedom of choice. But when it comes time to buy a car, we do not have all of the choices Europe does concerning the engine of a car.

Even Canada has a handful more choices than we do.

I would like to see diesels here in 75 percent of the cars sold here. I think something the size of a Pontiac G8 with a diesel and a manual transmission has the potential to be a beast of a sleeper, with something as simple as an ECU retuning. But our government is blissfully ignorant and over-restrictive of them, thinking they are all smog-producing, clacking and chattering, old-tech engines that are the biggest contributors to the environmental decline. I find it surprising that they are somehow still available in full-sized pickups here. :rolleyes:

simple reason. california and the EPA/feds make it an overwhelming burden to provide multiple powertrain choices.

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