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Oracle of Delphi

FUTURE PRODUCTS -- GENERAL MOTORS

98 posts in this topic

Jamie LaReau

Automotive News

August 25, 2008 - 12:01 am ET

The dreams of making Pontiac into an exclusively rear-wheel-drive brand have been put on hold, possibly permanently.

Small front-drive cars will make up a significant portion of Pontiac's future product line. And like most everything in General Motors' stable, Pontiac's future lineup is affected by new corporate average fuel economy requirements and GM's tight cash supply.

The bottom line: It will be difficult to create a unique identity for Pontiac, separating it from Chevrolet.

G3: An entry-level car based on the Chevrolet Aveo is likely to be imported for the 2009 model year. The G3 would be developed on GM's global Gamma architecture.

Sedan: A sedan sized between the Aveo and Pontiac G5 is under consideration for Pontiac or Buick for the 2012 model year. Because Pontiac and Buick are sold under one roof at most dealerships, only one brand will get the car, which likely would be imported.

Sedan: In light of high gasoline prices, a Pontiac based on the 2010 Chevy Cruze may arrive as early as the 2011 model year. The car would be developed on GM's new fwd Delta global vehicle architecture. It likely will replace the G5.

G6: GM management has flipped-flopped product strategy on this model several times.

Initially, the automaker planned to restyle and re-engineer the G6 around the 2011 model year. The car was scheduled to be developed on GM's next-generation Epsilon vehicle architecture.

Then, in an effort to distinguish Pontiac from Chevrolet, GM decided to make Pontiac a rwd brand. The redesigned, rwd G6 was slated to debut around the 2012 model year. GM's new rwd Alpha architecture was expected to be used.

G8: The G8, assembled in Australia, is the first car sold in the United States that was developed on GM's global rwd vehicle architecture, known as Zeta. The car went on sale earlier this year as a 2008 model.

Pontiac will expand the G8 line with a 2010 G8 sport truck, the G8 ST. The truck, a niche product also out of Holden, is reminiscent of the Chevrolet El Camino, which featured a small pickup bed.

Solstice: The 2009 product line is doubled with the addition of a fastback coupe.

The Solstice line will get higher-horsepower engines, but not a V-6. The car is a candidate for GM's new 1.4-liter turbo four-cylinder engine.

What happens next will be based on Solstice sales and whether GM can afford a next generation.

Vibe: Pontiac launched a restyled, re-engineered Vibe for the 2009 model year. The hatchback likely won't be due for a freshening until the 2011 model year.

Torrent: The Torrent crossover ends production in 2009. That leaves Pontiac a car-only line, which is what GM wants it to be as part of the Buick-Pontiac-GMC sales channel.

Link: http://www.autonews.com/article/20080825/ANA03/808250312

Edited by Pontiac Custom-S
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No surprises here. This is what a lot of us expected, with our new lowered expectations. All I ask is, give Pontiac its own sheetmetal, wheels and interiors until things get better.
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No surprises here. This is what a lot of us expected, with our new lowered expectations. All I ask is, give Pontiac its own sheetmetal, wheels and good interiors until things get better.

Fixed. Does anyone know if the Pontiacs are getting upgraded center stacks a la Buick?

Edited by Lamar
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This is stupid. If GM can only give Pontiac minimal investment, give them the Solstice and an Alpha-based sedan. Perhaps continue to import the G8 sense it's basically free in terms of R&D anyways. There's no reason the Solstice and a compact sedan can't achieve good MPGs... if the G8 has to die because of MPGs, then so be at, but at least give Pontiac something that's desirable for a different reason than a Chevy FWD generic.

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It's pretty apparent that GM has made up its mind to downsize the amount of brands sold.

Futures aren't looking well for at least couple of them... if not most.

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It's pretty apparent that GM has made up its mind to downsize the amount of brands sold.

Futures aren't looking well for at least couple of them... if not most.

Well, I'm not so sure GM is really going to kill any brand names, but Pontiac is essentially dead with this lineup, as it is just rebadged Chevys. The name may not die, but anything resembling a unique brand with any appealing products that can't be found as almost identical vehicles at Chevy is dead.

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As much as I'd like a GMC Truck next November (and I know that brand is not safe either), I'm thinking I should buy a brand new Pontiac G8 while I can. It seems as if GM will remove the only true Pontiacs (G8 & Solstice) in the very near future and bring the '80s back by offering mildly rebadged Chevies as Pontiacs :rolleyes:

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You bring up a good point. Those of us (me included) who wished for an all-RWD Pontiac lineup are forgetting that Pontiac has been a shadow of Chevrolet off and on throughout its existence. This latest plan is not something entirely different from what has come before, over and over again. When and if times get better and GM is rolling in dough again, I am sure if there is a car guy left in management at the Corporation, there'll be some hot Pontiacs coming down the pike. Right now, with the way things are at GM, I am just glad they're keeping the brand going.
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As much as I'd like a GMC Truck next November (and I know that brand is not safe either), I'm thinking I should buy a brand new Pontiac G8 while I can. It seems as if GM will remove the only true Pontiacs (G8 & Solstice) in the very near future and bring the '80s back by offering mildly rebadged Chevies as Pontiacs :rolleyes:

Only the Solstice is a true Pontiac, the other is a pretender too.

Edited by Pontiac Custom-S
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Only the Solstice is a true Pontiac, the other is a pretender too.

Well, in North America what else is rebadged using the Holden? Nada! So to North America it is a unique Pontiac, and it's a car that one could only buy if they lived in Austrailia, the Middle East, and Europe. Also, I agree with gm4life that it is a true Pontiac in spirit (however, in my opinion, it is what a Pontiac should be - a performance sedan for the average consumer to obtain).

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My Bonneville was called the "Great American Touring Sedan" and it has lived up to that indeed. I know it isn't super fast but it feels and looks faster than it is. Those 3.8's have a nice powerband and the 17inch chrome wheels and dual exhaust it makes you think your faster and cooler than you are. And that is okay with me. I do love that car. Hopefully next new car is a G8 or a Camaro... Here's to hoping... Although I don't need a truck a 6.0L 1/2 ton Silverado appeals to me. I just like Chevy trucks.

Edited by gm4life
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The G8 is a real Pontiac to me, as it is the closest thing to the great Pontiacs of the 1960's. I understand that CAFE and expensive gasoline may soon kill such cars.

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It's pretty apparent that GM has made up its mind to downsize the amount of brands sold.

Futures aren't looking well for at least couple of them... if not most.

I don't think so.

I think GM itself is in too much trouble right now for them to worry about brands. They need "share product" out and they need it like yesterday. So that's what they're producing.

Well, I'm not so sure GM is really going to kill any brand names, but Pontiac is essentially dead with this lineup, as it is just rebadged Chevys. The name may not die, but anything resembling a unique brand with any appealing products that can't be found as almost identical vehicles at Chevy is dead.

Unless GM gives Pontiac uniqueness with the current crop of products. It doesn't have to be RWD V8 for it to be 'distinctly Pontiac' Hell, with the lose 're-badge' terms thrown around these days, the CTS may as well be a rebadged G8.

This dealer channel needs volume too and there is no reason that 2 volume divisions couldn't exist at GM, especially if they're aimed at different segments of the market. Actually, that's all the better since GM could really (With a little luck and good marketing) reverse the share slide.

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You bring up a good point. Those of us (me included) who wished for an all-RWD Pontiac lineup are forgetting that Pontiac has been a shadow of Chevrolet off and on throughout its existence. This latest plan is not something entirely different from what has come before, over and over again. When and if times get better and GM is rolling in dough again, I am sure if there is a car guy left in management at the Corporation, there'll be some hot Pontiacs coming down the pike. Right now, with the way things are at GM, I am just glad they're keeping the brand going.

+1

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To go off of Ocn & FOG's comments... Since GM isn't too concerned about "platform sharing" and "rebadging" then why not go all the way? If GM is willing to keep the G-Platform vehicles around, then why not keep SIGMA around and share it with other brands? Reskin the STS and give it to Chevrolet as an Impala/Caprice? Reskin the CTS coupe into a Buick Riviera? Similar maneuvers have been done before...

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I agree as Pontiac has been nothing but a hand me down from Chevy even farther back than some want to admit.

The great GTO's were all Chevelle A body based. The Firebird whould not be if there was no Camaro. The Large Pontiac cars were all based on the GM full size platforms for years. They got different trim and for a while different engines but they still were based on the other lines sold by GM in the states.

The crazy truth is the only 100% Pontiac that has been made in decades was the Fiero 2M4. The P car was Pontiac only and while it shares some parts most were redesigned to fit the Fiero and were not interchangable with any other GM cars . Also the 4 cylinder Iron Duke was a Pontiac engine. Then lets not forget this was one of the last Pontiacs built in Pontiac MI.

I find the G8 be more Pontiac than many of their past models as this car was not shared till the Camaro in the states and for once Pontiac got the platform first VS the past where Chevy would get it first.

I would be fine with only 4-5 true perfromance base cars RWD and FWD mix. I have learned GM can make a FWD performance car after buying my HHR SS. If a G5 ran like that I could respect it as a Pontiac.

As for calling the Bonneville the "Great American Touring Sedan" That crap has to stop. If they want respect Pontiac can be just a Great America Car it has to be a great Car period.

Right now Chevy is selling some damn good cars and if you want people to buy Pontiacs you need to give them a reason. The HHR SS and Malibu I just bought were both better than the offerings from Pontiac. They also were cheaper. I am a die hard Pontiac fan and I am buying Chevys is that telling you something about Pontiac and what they are offering. If they can't sell me a Pontiac fan a car then who the hell are they going to sell them too?

If Pontiac had gotten the Astra restyled as a Pontiac G5 with a 260 Turbo I might have looked. IF Pontiac has a G6 that was advancing with improvment vs not much better than a few years ago I might have looked.

If Pontiac had offered a 260 HP Turbo in a small RWD sedan I would be all over it.

The hell with the old names as the new cars have to be different. It is the products that make the differance and not the name. You could have called the G6 a Grand and a G5 a Sunbird and I still would not have bought one.

Right now the only two cars they have I was intersted in was the Solstice which I had to pass on as I need more than two seats. Also I looked at a G8 ST but again two seats. I may replace the wifes GTP with a G8 if they are still around when it is time.

One last note the Malibu I bought for my Mom made me wake up and realize how cruddy my GTP is. The 2LT I got for $20K is quieter, better interior, rides better, handels as well and is nealry as fast. has a 24 vlave V6 with a six speed tranny. The sad part is the V6 2LT is not even a performance car and is a better all around car than my Comp G.

At the Pontiac Nationals this year it was generally accepted by many if GM ever files for reorganization Pontiac will be gone. If the market does not improve that could very well happen. It is sad even the base is accepting of the fact Pontiac could be gone with little out rage.

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G6: GM management has flipped-flopped product strategy on this model several times.

Initially, the automaker planned to restyle and re-engineer the G6 around the 2011 model year. The car was scheduled to be developed on GM's next-generation Epsilon vehicle architecture.

Then, in an effort to distinguish Pontiac from Chevrolet, GM decided to make Pontiac a rwd brand. The redesigned, rwd G6 was slated to debut around the 2012 model year. GM's new rwd Alpha architecture was expected to be used.

So the where's the rest of the story? I know we're getting the awful 2010, but then what after? I really hope the Alpha one makes it.

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Pontiac is Holden all the way through.

You'll see when Holden shows their E-Flex model.........guess what? It's a performance model and it's what Pontiac will become.

Don't fret about Pontiac....it has a future in the electrification of the automobile and it's the "performance brand" of electric cars.

Monster torque!

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Pontiac is Holden all the way through.

Monster torque!

Actually, Holden only has a few models that are Pontiac-ish--the performance versions of the Commodore. The LWB Caprice and Statesman are Buickish (i.e Park Avenue in China), and the rest of their line is FWD generics---Chevywoo crap and Opels.

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I am just glad Pontiac is around. I won't be suprised to see some rebadging/platform sharing but I hope and believe GM can do better than the G5/Cobalt.

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Here's the long and short of it for Pontiac. The future is not so bright at Pontiac.

2009 - G3 Debuts, Solstice coupe debuts, Vibe restyled/re-engineered

2010 - Possible G5 replacement, G8 ST debuts

2011 - Nothing

2012 - Possible small imported car

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