A Big Asstra Inventory

[Brougham-Holiday]

I like the overall look of the Astra, the materials, fit/finish...solid door & handle operation... are wonderful... but performance is weak, and without generous discounts, it's not a particularly good dollar value.

AND...I'll go back to my biggest gripes about the Astra...those two which eliminated this car from my buddy's shopping list in August: the stupid, inexcusable omission of an i-pod input jack and no XM sat radio.

Now with the entire Saturn brand image and future uncertain, the Astra is a poorer value, despite discounts.

Here's why:

If Saturn dealers evaporate in 4 years, will and Chevy or Buick dealers want to service the "oddball" European Astra? It could mean investing in parts inventory, software for diagnostics, tech training, etc. Kinda like when Merkur went away, and Ford dealers loathed dealing with the quirks of any Scorpio or XR4Ti that came in for repair.

You are 100% right. I know the hate local GM dealers have had for my Aurora (and others who's Auroras also visit the dealership) because they are different then other GM cars. The Astra shares even less with other GMNA products and would require Buick/Pontiac/etc dealers to be able to service a car they never even sold.

[Satty]

The 4cyl L cars handled extremely well with good tires. At least the original ones did, after the facelift, they gained some weight and lost a bit in the handling department. And yes, the electrical issues did suck.

[Oracle of Delphi]

If Saturn dealers evaporate in 4 years, will and Chevy or Buick dealers want to service the "oddball" European Astra? It could mean investing in parts inventory, software for diagnostics, tech training, etc. Kinda like when Merkur went away, and Ford dealers loathed dealing with the quirks of any Scorpio or XR4Ti that came in for repair.

I have a feeling that Buick will be able to handle all your Opel needs. :AH-HA_wink: Also remember there is a new Astra coming to North America in 2010.

[fightingbee]

Please, no 1997 or thereabouts past anecdotes. Buick no longer makes a Regal or a GS. Chevrolet ISN'T the same as it was 10 years ago. Buick ISN'T the same as it was 10 years ago. Cadillac ISN'T the same as it was 10 years ago. I'M not the same as I was 10.... there's more of me to love

Umm... The Regal was produced through 2004. I didn't know that's considered an ancient car now.

[balthazar]

>>"Off topic, but I grew up in Ewing (resident from 1974 <o years old> to 1999 <24 years old>) and went to school with a ton of kids that had parent's employed at the GM plant. "<<

My father worked across the street at the Jet Propulsion Lab for about 30 years before transfering to MD until retirement. My family lived in Ewing until '75, then moved out to Hopewell Twsp.

When did the GM Ewing plant last assemble vehicles- anybody kno offhand?

[longtooth]

>>"Off topic, but I grew up in Ewing (resident from 1974 <o years old> to 1999 <24 years old>) and went to school with a ton of kids that had parent's employed at the GM plant. "<<

My father worked across the street at the Jet Propulsion Lab for about 30 years before transfering to MD until retirement. My family lived in Ewing until '75, then moved out to Hopewell Twsp.

When did the GM Ewing plant last assemble vehicles- anybody kno offhand?

No cars were built there just a myriad of parts. Doors handles, encapsulated glass side-windows, manual and electric seat adjusters. Many of the parts going into these sub-assemblies were manufactured there as well. Raw materials in one end of the building and finished product out the other. Also we did plating there. Vacuum metalized plastics. Phosphate-coated metal parts for functional items across all GM's lines of vehicles. Chrome plating of die-cast parts. The crown-jewel near the end was our powder-coat paint system. We painted parts also for Harley Davidson in York, PA. Just as in the JPL across the street there were unsung heroes working there. I was privileged to have worked with some brilliant engineers, draftsmen, tool & die men/women and a slew of hourly folks that knew what they were doing. Far better people than me were put out to pasture before their time through no fault of their own. A few were scattered to the winds and wound up working in other GM facilities being allowed to share their considerable gifts and in Doraville and Wilmington our paths crossed once more.

In Wilmington, DE where I was last employed (they're down until the 23rd of Feb. then coming back to build 4.5 cars per hour on one-shift) the contract staff of engineers looks like a composite of the global-polyglot melting pot that seems fitting given the 'modern' profile of manufacturing. We no longer have a vast pool of home-grown skill as it pertains to engineers. Lots of business types for sure that lack for common-sense and the basic know-how of manufacturing. Bill Gates has gone before Congress to implore there be more H1-B visas granted. The world is eating our lunch folks. Makes me glad that I am old. If there were a symbolic baton of sorts to hand-off to those coming up behind me this would be about the time the transfer would occur. But there is nothing. Nothing but the sound of 1.2 billion hungry Chinese and a similar number of Indian and Pakistani workers in a chorus as locusts swarming a field of soybeans. Efficient, remorseless and focused on removing the last of what was American preeminnence in manufacturing post World War II.

[edit] The last parts made there were electric seat-adjusters in June of 1998.

Edited February 1, 2009 by longtooth

[jlgolden]

I have a feeling that Buick will be able to handle all your Opel needs. :AH-HA_wink: Also remember there is a new Astra coming to North America in 2010.

Are we sure there will be anything new at Saturn any more? I understood that GM was only guaranteeing production of Saturn models through 2012. To me, that announcement is a bittersweet forecast...as it only suggests that they are letting all of the current models run through their regular life cycle, without a commitment to continue the Saturn brand. I guess my trust is weak, as I bought a 2001 Alero (in December 2000) and 48 hours later, GM announced the phase-out of the entire Olds division. That was a political and financial mess.

[wildcat]

Umm... The Regal was produced through 2004. I didn't know that's considered an ancient car now.

Ummm... I picked 1997 as a sample year. The Regal nameplate began production in 1973, and that would make for an "ancient" car. The point is, I'd say judge the car companies by what they've got out now or intend to have out in the future. The past is full of failure (for everybody), so let's try to be optimistic about the present and future.

Edited February 1, 2009 by wildcat

[ZL-1]

You are 100% right. I know the hate local GM dealers have had for my Aurora (and others who's Auroras also visit the dealership) because they are different then other GM cars.

Are those the dealers supposed to provide service to your Aurora after the Oldsmobile phase-out? If so, acting with that &#036;h&#33;ty customer service attitude won't help them stay in business... the person who takes the Aurora for a service can be the person buying an Enclave or some other vehicle they sell at a point in the future...

Edited February 1, 2009 by ZL-1

[MyerShift]

As a side point, it seems that the dash vents in the Mk V Golf/Jetta are simply terrible.

All of mine but one has broken off (the knob) and pulled out like a child's milk tooth.

With the Astra, the sedan definitely would have helped but even more so, if Americans are so desperate for an auto trans, they should have had the 1.8 automatic only and the new 1.6L turbo with the manual, auxillary jack, XM, and more of the special "Euro" features.

I myself am quite surprised at the fragility of Volkswagens even after barely one year of ownership.

My Rabbit (Golf V) has eaten its transmission, had a sub replaced, wing mirror replaced to fix the repeater signal, and the vents of course are just infuriating that they are breaking apart in the manner that they are.

[Cory Wolfe]

I myself am quite surprised at the fragility of Volkswagens even after barely one year of ownership.

My Rabbit (Golf V) has eaten its transmission, had a sub replaced, wing mirror replaced to fix the repeater signal, and the vents of course are just infuriating that they are breaking apart in the manner that they are.

You need an older one... Like, say, an MKIII.

[ocnblu]

I had a friend in high school who would only buy Volvos with 250k+ miles. They were seasoned, he reasoned.

[cire]

I agree, GM needs to listen to their customers, absolutely.

Why in the world (other than having no marketing money) would GM leave the LaCrosse name on an all-new platform that seems to be quite a step forward? The "W" body LaCrosse was no world-beater. Especially with having LaCrosse and Allure, no consistency. And everyone's comments I read or heard asked that they use the Invicta name. Why oh why, GM?

Totally agree! Why in the world would they retain the "LaCrosse" name? It has almost zero equity in the market and the new LWB Eps II sedan should be clearly introducing a new and brighter future for the brand (I firmly and absolutely believe that the current LaCrosse represents a low period for the brand). The well accepted show car was named "Invicta" and the subsequent production version should rightfully carry this powerful and emotional new model name (especially if this sedan will eventually become the brand's flagship sedan). I don't get GM's inconsistency: the Enclave was supposed to replace the Rendezvous, Rainier, and Terraza as Buick's sole people mover product, yet they didn't stick one of the former model names on the then brand new Lambda product (although I would like to see the "Rendezvous" name return on some other product in the future). Why should this new LWB Eps II sedan be any different? To name the new sedan "LaCrosse" totally defies any sort of logic to me whatsoever.

[Brougham-Holiday]

Totally agree! Why in the world would they retain the "LaCrosse" name? It has almost zero equity in the market and the new LWB Eps II sedan should be clearly introducing a new and brighter future for the brand (I firmly and absolutely believe that the current LaCrosse represents a low period for the brand). The well accepted show car was named "Invicta" and the subsequent production version should rightfully carry this powerful and emotional new model name (especially if this sedan will eventually become the brand's flagship sedan). I don't get GM's inconsistency: the Enclave was supposed to replace the Rendezvous, Rainier, and Terraza as Buick's sole people mover product, yet they didn't stick one of the former model names on the then brand new Lambda product (although I would like to see the "Rendezvous" name return on some other product in the future). Why should this new LWB Eps II sedan be any different? To name the new sedan "LaCrosse" totally defies any sort of logic to me whatsoever.

I agree, but I wonder if this is an attempt to rebuild name recognition for Buick. They have already confused their customers over the last 10 years by changing every model name in the line up, this maybe a way to create some stability.

It still should have been called Invicta.

[cire]

I don't think they should dumb down cars, but they should fit the American market if they are sold here. For example, the GTO was not available with a sunroof, when almost every $30k+ car has one as an option at least, many have that standard. GM designs cars for specific regions, like the Impala for the USA, Astra for Europe, G8/Commodore for Australia. BMW, Mercedes, Audi, etc design their cars to work everywhere in the world with subtle changes to fit a market. Such as options or equipment or a 2 liter diesel for the European 3-series.

You do have a good point. The current Saturn Astra was not tailored or equipped to be successful in this market. It is missing quite a few things that the U.S. market would expect on a premium hatchback product. I agree that the products don't necessarily need changes in suspension tuning and feel, but they do need to nail the details (engine/trans combo, center armrests, cupholders, audio options, navigation systems, ergonomics, moon roof, etc.) that would make the product successful in its designated segment of its new market.

I think the best case scenario would have been to build a modified version of the current Astra sedan at a North American production facility (which I think was probably the original plan; the current Astra sedan looks a lot like those Ion replacement sketches that were floating around on the Internet before GM abandoned their plans for that car). Sedans are more successful in the U.S. and the sedan version would have complimented the midsize Aura better than the current smallish hatchbacks (which wouldn't have been so out of place at Pontiac in OPC trim). If GM were truly trying to revitalize Saturn, then following through with a brand appropriate product like a U.S. tailored version of the current Astra sedan should have been the obvious direction for an Ion replacement. GM seems to have a knack for failing to apply any logic or common sense to their decisions.