Intrepidation

REPORT: Union chief says plans to build Chevrolet Orlando in U.S. on hold

66 posts in this topic

orlando-concept-580x-3-4.jpg

General Motors is in survival mode right now; cutting staff, closing plants, and reworking contracts. The last thing the General likely wants to cut back on is product, but even new vehicles aren't immune to the chopping block.

Automotive News is reporting that GM has postponed production of the Chevrolet Orlando at its Detroit Hamtramck facility. Local United Auto Workers chief George McGregor informed AN that plant management informed him that the Orlando and a planned Opel variant will not be built at the facility later in the year. GM has neither declined or confirmed the Orlando's postponement (it could simply be built elsewhere), but North American President Troy Clarke mentioned at the Detroit Auto Show in January that the seven seat MPV would be headed for production in 2011.

McGregor did say that plans were full speed ahead for the Chevy Volt, however, as the range-extender EV is scheduled for production in November 2010. Both the Volt and the Orlando are based on GM's global Delta C segment architecture, which will underpin everything from the Chevy Cruze to the Opel Flextreme.

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Dumb.

A lot of people would go for this car in North America. It's not my cup of tea (the HHR is though), mainly I'm not a fan of the interior styling, but people who gave up their Minivans for fuel economy, like my Father, would probably buy this car very quickly. We know that Ford is bringing the Euro C-Max over, I don't think GM can afford to be behind the 8-Ball on this. Maybe if times get better we'll see it but I think that just canning things like that mini-Diesel and this are not the way to succeed. GM needs to learn that you can't cut product and innovation from divisions that will survive anyway (Chev, GMC, Cadillac) and have those cuts lead to being competitive.

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I agree with Vee on this one-If it is goin to replace the HHR, then it needs to be out...

For small families, this would be a good car.

My wife hates the HHR (lack of vision, styling), but this she might go for...

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I hope we still get this even if it's built somewhere else. It looks like a great package and a stylish replacement for the odd and dated HHR.

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To me this vehicle seems redundant with the wonderful HHR and the brand new Equinox already covering the 5-seater MPV market. This will never be a suitable replacement for the HHR, in my eyes. Orlando is not an ugly car, it's just different and clearly not as special as HHR. The only way it could fit is if the HHR goes out of production, and I believe that vehicle still has at least a few years left of market sweetness before ppl get tired of it.
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To me this vehicle seems redundant with the wonderful HHR and the brand new Equinox already covering the 5-seater MPV market. This will never be a suitable replacement for the HHR, in my eyes. Orlando is not an ugly car, it's just different and clearly not as special as HHR. The only way it could fit is if the HHR goes out of production, and I believe that vehicle still has at least a few years left of market sweetness before ppl get tired of it.

That is a good point, ocn.

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I certainly hope this means that it simply won't be built in the U.S. as opposed to being cancelled or delayed altogether...

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THis is too close to the NOX.

The HHR is the kind of vehicle people buy to be different and not to look like every other mini van or cross over on the market.

HHR has 3 groups of buyers.

The key points of the HHR are this.

Styling. It looks nothing like a Cross over/mini van. It sells well to SUV and truck buyers wanting to down size. Note a lot of truck owners.

Price. the price of the HHR makes it a steal of a buy. It is well sorted out and except for a little too much hard plastic on the inside it present every well with the upgraded interior.

Perfromance. their has been a growing group of perfromance people since the SS arrived. It has become the Mini that GM never really built. It is fun to drive and wicked fast with minor upgrades.

Mileage. The HHR get great mileage even with 290 HP of the tubo stage 22-30 MPG real world.

While the Orlando may a good vehilcle it is mostly what the HHR is not and what the buyers of the HHR want. It will be a risk to end the HHR with 100,000 annual sales to be replaced with a vehicle so close the the NOX and so far from the HHR.

As a HHR owner I would never buy one of this because it looks like a mini van and from what the reaction was on the HHR web site when I presented the Orlando I am not alone.

I would rather see a retro update on this plaform of the HHR as a retro styled vehcile based on a 55 Chevy panel and Suburban. Keep it retro but change the styling more than Chrysler did on the PT.

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At least the HHR had character, this thing is a bloated mini-SUV with a purpose.

It shouldn't be a replacement for the HHR since it has no connection to the vehicle it replaces. In my eyes, it competes in a different segment but that's just perception. Take it for what it's worth.

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If it's teh same size as the HHR then it is in the same segment. The HHR is ok, but flawed and dated.

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I see Hyperv6 says 100,000 units sold, Where? :unsure:

Here in Seattle, I have gone by the Kirkland, Bothell, Everett, lynnwood chevy dealerships and they all have ton's of HHR sitting on the lots but talking to the sales people they have been sitting, most of these are last year models and no new versions are being taken. No one is buying the HHR here in the Northwest. This must be a vehicle that is selling in select areas.

Personally the HHR says I am old and from the past, the Orlando at least say's modern and I could even see this as an AWD version for wet and snowy weather.

I have no other info on this as this is the first time I have seen the Orlando and I like what I see just like I liked the HHR when it came out also but also acknowledge that the HHR was for people who Wanted to relive the past style.

IMO, If the HHR is profitable and truly selling 6 figure units, then keep it going, but consider what the fall off has been for the last couple years. If the HHR has reduced 30-40K units year over year then this vehicle has already lost it's shine and is probably only selling with incentives that rob the profit from the vehicle. At that point then it needs to be massivly updated or replaced.

Does anyone have the last 3 years of selling for the HHR to validate if it is really holding onto market share or is it dying off as I suspect it is?

Humans are fical and like change, keeping a model around just to resist change is like Ex Prez Bush and his Stay the Course attitude that did not serve this country well.

If someone has the sales numbers, please post them to justify keeping the HHR or show that it is time to replace it with this Orlando.

ciao, :deathwatch:

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THis is too close to the NOX.

The HHR is the kind of vehicle people buy to be different and not to look like every other mini van or cross over on the market.

HHR has 3 groups of buyers.

The key points of the HHR are this.

Styling. It looks nothing like a Cross over/mini van. It sells well to SUV and truck buyers wanting to down size. Note a lot of truck owners.

Price. the price of the HHR makes it a steal of a buy. It is well sorted out and except for a little too much hard plastic on the inside it present every well with the upgraded interior.

Perfromance. their has been a growing group of perfromance people since the SS arrived. It has become the Mini that GM never really built. It is fun to drive and wicked fast with minor upgrades.

Mileage. The HHR get great mileage even with 290 HP of the tubo stage 22-30 MPG real world.

While the Orlando may a good vehilcle it is mostly what the HHR is not and what the buyers of the HHR want. It will be a risk to end the HHR with 100,000 annual sales to be replaced with a vehicle so close the the NOX and so far from the HHR.

As a HHR owner I would never buy one of this because it looks like a mini van and from what the reaction was on the HHR web site when I presented the Orlando I am not alone.

I would rather see a retro update on this plaform of the HHR as a retro styled vehcile based on a 55 Chevy panel and Suburban. Keep it retro but change the styling more than Chrysler did on the PT.

But they're the same thing!!!! They're BOTH GM vehicles that cost the same!!! They both perform the same!!! HHR is just a badge!!!1111!!!!

Now you (well, not so much you, specifically, but others) see why I want a Pontiac instead of a Chevrolet.

Oh, and BTW, you're argument makes FAR too much sense for GM to even consider it....

The HHR has been VERY successful, so in typical GM fashion (with both divisions and products) they'll perfect it (SEE: HHR SS) and then discontinue it and scratch their heads about why it's mundane, incapable replacement isn't selling the same numbers.

Personally the HHR says I am old and from the past, the Orlando at least say's modern and I could even see this as an AWD version for wet and snowy weather.

Funny...

I thought that's what all Scions (excepting the tC) and Elements said... At least, judging by the age of the drivers.

And the Orlando, as nice as it is and as much as I want to see it sold ALONG SIDE the HHR, will probably say the same thing since it is devoid of character.

If the HHR has reduced 30-40K units year over year then this vehicle has already lost it's shine and is probably only selling with incentives that rob the profit from the vehicle. At that point then it needs to be massivly updated or replaced.

Or... It could just be the market that's down 30-40%...

Edited by FUTURE_OF_GM
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Oh well, I'd still rather have the practicality of our mini-van. It's funny how consumers will sacrifice so much for mere vanity. In light of that, being the market 'trend', it's a shame GM had to make this decision that could have an effect on their overall volume. The thing would likely sell... though I'm not sure why. I guess we can just hope they get by.

Edited by ShadowDog
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Personally the HHR says I am old and from the past, the Orlando at least say's modern and I could even see this as an AWD version for wet and snowy weather.

Does anyone have the last 3 years of selling for the HHR to validate if it is really holding onto market share or is it dying off as I suspect it is?

If someone has the sales numbers, please post them to justify keeping the HHR or show that it is time to replace it with this Orlando.

ciao, :deathwatch:

Although I recently gave up my sales job, I can vouch for slumping HHR sales. Especially when you can buy a 7-passenger van for $16,999 and the HHR starts at 21 and change... it didn't make sense for someone to give up that much $ for something so small.

What GM could have done to make the HHR more marketible is made an AWD version of it and maybe re-worked the exterior styling a wee bit. In my last year with the dealership, I didn't meet one woman who liked the HHR - in fact, most women cringed when I made a suggestion that they take one for a drive.

I love the looks of the Orlando. The Mazda5 is an awesome looking vehicle with seating for 7 and lots of wiggle room and flexibility in the seats - GM should use that as an example and move forward.

Also, bring that decent 4 cyl engine out for it too w 6-spd tranny.

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Although I recently gave up my sales job, I can vouch for slumping HHR sales. Especially when you can buy a 7-passenger van for $16,999 and the HHR starts at 21 and change... it didn't make sense for someone to give up that much $ for something so small.

What GM could have done to make the HHR more marketible is made an AWD version of it and maybe re-worked the exterior styling a wee bit. In my last year with the dealership, I didn't meet one woman who liked the HHR - in fact, most women cringed when I made a suggestion that they take one for a drive.

I love the looks of the Orlando. The Mazda5 is an awesome looking vehicle with seating for 7 and lots of wiggle room and flexibility in the seats - GM should use that as an example and move forward.

Also, bring that decent 4 cyl engine out for it too w 6-spd tranny.

Canada, I'm guessing?

As far as the HHR, I think it is hot in some areas (like here in the Motor City), and cold in others...

I know quite a few women who are driving it, and like it. (granted, my wife hates it)

Though I do agree that it does need some updates....

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productionq.png

Thanks Hyperv6 for posting 2008 numbers, would you have the 2007 and 2006 numbers for comparison?

Thanks Dud, :)

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I agree that a better HHR and Equinox will more than take place of Orlando. If the new HHR gets a green light it should not be retroed as the current one is. I agree with "shesellschevys" girls are not happy looking at the HHR, but they would not mind being caught in the X-B(ox). :rolleyes:

But two things will spring in Orlando's favor:

  1. It is 7 seater compared to the other two.
  2. GM's "desire" for "Global" products.
It would make a better business case if the entire global production of Orlando took place in USA.
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Ok lets do something different here and let some facts get in the way.

These are the numbers for the 2008 that sold 99,176 units 2006 I think I saw sold 118,000 approx and the 2007 was also over 100,000.

Note if you disagree with these numbers call GM as that is where they came from.

The HHR is not sell this year as and is flooding lots just as almost ever other GM car. But most informed pople would understand that and any idiot would understand that but then again from what I read I guess some don't

The Orlando was posted by me on the HHR site several times and seldom there are few who really care for it. With the number the HHR sells at and the reaction of the present owners I would think cat GM's attention. The HHR will do fine till 2011-12 but it will need replace by something new. But it also has to be specal as the Olando is just nothing special. Th epeople in a HHR was something that people stop them as say they like it. Contary to popular belief many people who don't own one do like them and they are under 50.

I have no problem with the Orlando being built but it is just not going to sell to the same demo as the HHR does. I hate to see the risk of those sales being gone that are easy to keep with something visually interesting and affordable.

In the HHR's case being different is a selling point to many.

I was never a HHR fan or understood it till I bought my SS. The HHR base is very diverse and special. This is the kind of group that would be loyal if given a replacemnt that offered not the exact styling but just special styling. Many people today want affordable cars that get them noticed. Too often you have to spend 50 K to get noticed.

Lutz did GM a big favore to fight for this little car.

As for 7 seats Not sure but I would say in the HHR's case few care. I think most would want about 6 inches more lenth for hauling and a side opening rear door. Some have done this conversion. The Panels are selling well this year even in slow times. THe SS would sell better if it was marketed. I know few know about it as many people think I built mine. It ges like this " That is cool and a turbo, Did you built it yourself?"

As for AWD and the like it would be nice but not manditory unless it was affordable. You lose the price point on this you lose your sales. Too many on this web site forget price when dreaming up cars. It is nice to have the toys but not everyone can afford them. GIve them a car that feels loaded at a affordable price and you win the game. IN economic times like that it is a wise thing to keep in mind.

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Edited by hyperv6
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In my last year with the dealership, I didn't meet one woman who liked the HHR - in fact, most women cringed when I made a suggestion that they take one for a drive.

I love the looks of the Orlando. The Mazda5 is an awesome looking vehicle with seating for 7 and lots of wiggle room and flexibility in the seats - GM should use that as an example and move forward.

Also, bring that decent 4 cyl engine out for it too w 6-spd tranny.

Ditto on most of your comments. The ones that I have heard here from other bloggers is why GM

is in such big trouble!

We just switched from a Chrysler T & C minivan to a downsize, for economy! Looked at the HHR's.

Couldn't even touch a used one for under 20k, equipped the way I would want one!

Looked at a Dodge Caliber SXT. Bought a used one for $5,000. less than the best deal on an HHR!

AND..... it is more functional and PRACTICAL --- than the HHR! And gave 30.9mpg!

I like the looks and proportions of the new Orlando. Might even considr a switch after seeing one in the flesh.

It seems to have returned to a realm of practical rather than snobb appeal!

Oh yeah, a small diesel would set this apart from the rest and bring mileage back ahead of the flock!

Edited by rkmdogs
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Orlando is just ok, but the HHR is interesting.

Long live the HHR, one of the few things GM has gotten just right lately.

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I'm assuming the Opel version will be the next gen Zafira. I was hoping to see the next gen Zafira in the U.S. as a new Buick Rendezvous. Buick needs a smaller people mover. Since GMC is getting the Theta based Terrain, I thought Buick could get the next gen Delta II based Zafira as a more car-like sub-Enclave people mover.

I agree with those who hope that this news means that the Orlando will still be available in the U.S. even if it is built elsewhere. I think it would be a valuable addition to Chevrolet's lineup here.

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Most people expect luggage room in a vehicle to somewhat match its passenger capacity. I don't know of any small 7 passenger vehicles that have done well recently. The Mazda 5's yearly sales increased from 13,717 (2007) to 22,021 (2008). These cars are highly discounted and sell for a song. Suzuki XL7 is a perennial sales looser too. Perhaps one of the Korean models is doing better? I think it is unfortunate that the short wheelbase minivans have fallen out of favor, but i guess the market has spoken.

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Thanks Hyperv6 for posting 2008 numbers, would you have the 2007 and 2006 numbers for comparison?

Thanks Dud, :)

I am trying to get them.

The 06 and 07 out sold the 08. The 09 will not be a comparison as with the market down it has been tough on all Chevys but trucks.

When gas was up last fall there were fewer than 2 or 3 HHRs on dealer lots. They were selling almost as fast as the Cobalt per the salesman I bought mine from. Just to get mine I had to change color choice as the dealer went as far as Ohio to Georgia to try to pick one up for me loaded in red. I ended up getting one in black and even had a hard time doing that. SS's were hard to find loaded in July August and September.

Like I said the Orlando will have its market but it will not be the same market the HHR sold to. Just spend some time on the HHR web site and many there plan to buy another before the end of production.

The 3rd row seating is mostly a Euro thing and I would be shocked if the diesel sold well. Diesels on enthusiast web sites are like 6 speeds everyons says they will buy one and when they hit the market the general public passes on them.

The bottom line is the HHR is and was a cheap car for GM to produce that created a market with little compititon. It sold well and made a a good profit for GM. The lack of marketing may have hurt it some but if it was selling well and money is tight you don't fix what is not broken.

I bet the small Mazda 5 and other like it and I bet few sell in the same numbers as the HHR.

As for the Caliber they are priced so low as they are that bad. I was in a SRT version the other day. Nice front seats and good engine but little else. The plastic in the Caliber make the HHR look good. The HHR resale has been better than most GM cars as even high mileage base ones are reselling seldom less than $9K for a vehicle the base model can be had new for little more.

In my area used HHR's are a hard thing to find

Women do not hate the HHR. THere are many female owners of this vehilcle. The design is just a love or hate thing and it is that way with all men and women. Just there is enought that like it to support it.

Bring on the Orlando but just don't expect it to replace the HHR sales. A new HHR on the new Orlando platform would make a cheap alturnitive. You could keep it retro but it would have to have a new retro look. 1955-57 with some Cameo trait tossed in would do well. Keep a performance version. It would not have to be a SS but something that would make it fun to drive like the present SS.

If I had to replace mine today and no other HHR SS was available I would look to the Mini for the daily driver. .

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