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carman21

If We Really Want to Save the US Auto Industry

37 posts in this topic

If we really want to save the US auto industry then we got to do something bold.

1) Detroit has no independent market share above 1% in any East Asian market and as such we should kick out the Japanese and Koreans from the US and keep the Chinese and Malaysians out of our market.

2) Restrict all Foreign automakers to a 20% combined cap in market share.

3) Restrict all Foreign automobiles to be sold under $30,000 and above $150,000.

4) Restrict all sales of Foreign automobiles to those built in the US.

5) Work to force out the Asians throughout the Americas and all of Europe.

What will result from this radical departure in US policy?

-US Automakers are given at least an 80% share of their home market.

-US Automakers secure their 20% market share abroad in the EU, Russia, and India.

-US luxury brands regain 100% of their home market.

-Audi, BMW, Jaguar, and Maserati will cease operation in the US.

-Bentley, Mercedes-Benz, and Rolls Royce will be the only remaining European coachmakers in the US.

-Lamborghini, Ferrari, and Porsche will remain in the US.

-In addition to VW, we will get more EU auto brands like Peugeot, Citroen, Fiat, Seat, Skoda, and Renault.

-Cadillac pulls out of Britain, Germany, and Italy

-China ends its parasitic relationship with foreign automakers leading the the demise and isolation of the Chinese auto industry.

-Japan and Korea become regional players as US and EU automakers reassert their dominance in the global auto industry.

Alas, this is only a pipe dream and will never happen. Although its interesting to think about the possibilities.

Too bad the free market has been perverted so far that it merely means the constant erosion of US companies and industries until they are all gone.

Edited by carman21
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Eh, I think competition is good for business, and such aggressive protection of the home industry would likely promote laziness on the part of the domestic automakers. What I DO support is a fair trade policy. Apply the same trade tariffs to cars coming to our country as are applied to our vehicles going to theirs. This would nail the Japanese pretty good, as they make it pretty non-viable to sell American cars in Japan. It gets a bit sticky when you consider the foreign-owned domestic factories, though.

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This plan only works if you want to start a trade war... the way to make American Automakers successful is to make them competitive not killing the competition.

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The only way to make America sucessful is to nuke everyone and take everything for our selves! lol!

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This plan only works if you want to start a trade war... the way to make American Automakers successful is to make them competitive not killing the competition.

To make American companies competative with the Asian's we'd have to:

1. Provide national healthcare.

2. Provide extremely low interest loans to the Big Three.

3. Provide massive grants to new technologies.

4. Instill a sense of national pride towards American designed/manufactured products.

5. Instill a WWII like loathing of all things imported.

6. Set tariffs equal to those imposed on our car makers.

7. Heavily tax all income headed towards the mother country.

8. Set up a testing/approval/licensing procedure for importing products such as it would make the I.R.S. look like a young, flexible, efficient start up company.

9. Require that a certain (high) percentage of products intended of U.S. consumption be produced in the U.S.

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Eh, I think competition is good for business, and such aggressive protection of the home industry would likely promote laziness on the part of the domestic automakers. What I DO support is a fair trade policy. Apply the same trade tariffs to cars coming to our country as are applied to our vehicles going to theirs. This would nail the Japanese pretty good, as they make it pretty non-viable to sell American cars in Japan. It gets a bit sticky when you consider the foreign-owned domestic factories, though.

Yes, competition is a good thing, if the Detroit three fail to succeed in a domestic monopoly then some other U.S. automaker will take their roles. Anti-trust laws will ensure a domestic free market. Tariffs in manufacturing matter little to Toyota or Sony. If we impose high tariffs on their imported products, they will just build them in America and still destroy American companies. Only barring companies from nations that are hostile to foreign companies will help faciltate truely free markets both there and here. Japan, Korea, Chjina, and their ilk are highly protectionist of their domestic industries and hostile towards foreign industries. The Asians have occupied the West for decades, I think its time to Liberate the West.

This plan only works if you want to start a trade war... the way to make American Automakers successful is to make them competitive not killing the competition.

We already are in a trade war that we are losing. Japan, Korea, China, and their ilk are highly protectionist of their domestic industries and hostile towards foreign industries. The Asians have occupied the West for decades, I think its time to Liberate the West. Again competition should be stiff in the domestic market with limited incursions by European companies.

To make American companies competative with the Asian's we'd have to:

1. Provide national healthcare.

2. Provide extremely low interest loans to the Big Three.

3. Provide massive grants to new technologies.

4. Instill a sense of national pride towards American designed/manufactured products.

5. Instill a WWII like loathing of all things imported.

6. Set tariffs equal to those imposed on our car makers.

7. Heavily tax all income headed towards the mother country.

8. Set up a testing/approval/licensing procedure for importing products such as it would make the I.R.S. look like a young, flexible, efficient start up company.

9. Require that a certain (high) percentage of products intended of U.S. consumption be produced in the U.S.

Unions stand to make a killing both in membership and in power if they stop supporting government help for the workers against their employers and provide their members with health benefits, retirement, disability, etc.

Health care and other benefits should not be provided by employers or the government.

Loaning money and giving out grants never work to fix long term problems or create real progress.

Instilling a renewed sense of Patriotism is fine as long as it works. It takes a while for people to regain their faith when its lost.

Being distracted by foreign companies imports 0nly secures their position when they decide to make them here. It still send money outside the US and anchors the enemy in our homeland.

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Just to let you know, I support free trade as long as it is fair and equitable for all parties. Nations that refuse to play by the rules should be cut out of global trade and be left to whither and die.

Edited by carman21
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Yes, competition is a good thing, if the Detroit three fail to succeed in a domestic monopoly then some other U.S. automaker will take their roles. Anti-trust laws will ensure a domestic free market. Tariffs in manufacturing matter little to Toyota or Sony. If we impose high tariffs on their imported products, they will just build them in America and still destroy American companies. Only barring companies from nations that are hostile to foreign companies will help faciltate truely free markets both there and here. Japan, Korea, Chjina, and their ilk are highly protectionist of their domestic industries and hostile towards foreign industries. The Asians have occupied the West for decades, I think its time to Liberate the West.

We already are in a trade war that we are losing. Japan, Korea, China, and their ilk are highly protectionist of their domestic industries and hostile towards foreign industries. The Asians have occupied the West for decades, I think its time to Liberate the West. Again competition should be stiff in the domestic market with limited incursions by European companies.

Unions stand to make a killing both in membership and in power if they stop supporting government help for the workers against their employers and provide their members with health benefits, retirement, disability, etc.

Health care and other benefits should not be provided by employers or the government.

Loaning money and giving out grants never work to fix long term problems or create real progress.

Instilling a renewed sense of Patriotism is fine as long as it works. It takes a while for people to regain their faith when its lost.

Being distracted by foreign companies imports 0nly secures their position when they decide to make them here. It still send money outside the US and anchors the enemy in our homeland.

I'm not arguing the merits/demerits of any of those policies. I'm just pointing out that we'd need to do all of my list in order for things to be equal in terms of global trade. All of those things are what the asians do.

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We should save the US Electronics industry first.

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>>"If we impose high tariffs on their imported products, they will just build them in America and still destroy American companies. "<<

That's a tax loophole.

Close it.

Gub'mint adds new taxes as a whim with no opposition. Add a 'business license' fee to all foreign corporations selling product here. Whether assembled here or there should not make a difference- they need the U.S..

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I'm not arguing the merits/demerits of any of those policies. I'm just pointing out that we'd need to do all of my list in order for things to be equal in terms of global trade. All of those things are what the asians do.

Oh they were great suggestions, I really wish our leaders actually would touch the topic.

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>>"If we impose high tariffs on their imported products, they will just build them in America and still destroy American companies. "<<

That's a tax loophole.

Close it.

Gub'mint adds new taxes as a whim with no opposition. Add a 'business license' fee to all foreign corporations selling product here. Whether assembled here or there should not make a difference- they need the U.S..

Great Idea, or we could eliminate the corporate tax on domestic companies and raise it for foreigners. 60% would be fair enough, heck 90%.

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Great Idea, or we could eliminate the corporate tax on domestic companies and raise it for foreigners. 60% would be fair enough, heck 90%.

Couldn't see that happening..all the Senators/Representatives from the states w/ import plants would block any kind of tax change like that.

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This would be an arbitrary decision supported by a minority since consumers have shown where they want to buy their cars from.

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>>"Couldn't see that happening..all the Senators/Representatives from the states w/ import plants would block any kind of tax change like that."<<

With the state of the economy --locally, nationally & world-wide-- this is a HUGE source of revenue going untapped. Those that politically oppose securing readily-available international funds instead of yet more taxation risk getting ousted in the next election.

Besides, don't forget; "we're changing the way Washington does business", remember ??

-- -- -- -- --

>>"This would be an arbitrary decision supported by a minority since consumers have shown where they want to buy their cars from. "<<

They'll adapt. :wink:

Edited by balthazar
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>>"This would be an arbitrary decision supported by a minority since consumers have shown where they want to buy their cars from. "<<

They'll adapt. :wink:

LOL - I'm laughing only because that sounds funny. Truth be told, I suppose if that were the case, many consumers would be forced to re-evaluate their position on just what makes an automobile a good automobile. I would suspect many would simply begin to see that there really isn't all that much different between domestic and foreign and do just as you said; however, the passionate few would never submit. That's the key word here, "submit", simply because this kind of thinking is exactly what hardcore American purists have been waving their flags and shouting for their freedom from government against. That's quite the irony.

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To make American companies competative with the Asian's we'd have to:

1. Provide national healthcare.

No, merely reducing our corporate tax levels down to like 10% and eliminating most complexity in the tax code will provide more than enough additional money and time for Companies to be able to provide healthcare for their employees. It also will not appreciably lower tax revenues off of these companies since there will be very few loopholes to exploit in the first place and no special deductions other than business expenses of course.

This will eliminate any domestic tax planning activities (as there will be nothing to alter by the planning) which should lead to greater emphasis on core activities and overall increase profits... leading to more tax revenue & healthcare for more.

2. Provide extremely low interest loans to the Big Three.

Bankruptcy works just fine too, your best performance often comes under the highest of pressure.

4. Instill a sense of national pride towards American designed/manufactured products.

5. Instill a WWII like loathing of all things imported.

Both of these are fine as long as it doesn't appear that it is the government instilling this domestic pride because if it does it will spark a trade war.

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This would be an arbitrary decision supported by a minority since consumers have shown where they want to buy their cars from.

The playing field is not even. How "great" would the Accord be if Honda had to pay the healthcare and pension liabilities GM does?

Conversely, since the Malibu is now arguably on equal footing with the Accord and Camry, how much better over the imports could the Malibu have been if GM didn't have the healthcare issue?

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No, merely reducing our corporate tax levels down to like 10% and eliminating most complexity in the tax code will provide more than enough additional money and time for Companies to be able to provide healthcare for their employees. It also will not appreciably lower tax revenues off of these companies since there will be very few loopholes to exploit in the first place and no special deductions other than business expenses of course.

This will eliminate any domestic tax planning activities (as there will be nothing to alter by the planning) which should lead to greater emphasis on core activities and overall increase profits... leading to more tax revenue & healthcare for more.

Bankruptcy works just fine too, your best performance often comes under the highest of pressure.

Again, I'm not arguing the merits or demerits of any of these policies, merely stating what would have to happen to make the playing field level.

Both of these are fine as long as it doesn't appear that it is the government instilling this domestic pride because if it does it will spark a trade war.

Spark? The trade war is over 30 years old. We've been playing the part of France circa 1941. We put up some resistance here and there, but mostly we've just surrendered.

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Since the government is now involved it the American auto industry make all tax credits or breaks available on US cars only. This should not include a foreign car assembled in the US.

There always should have been a tariff on imports.

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Since the government is now involved it the American auto industry make all tax credits or breaks available on US cars only. This should not include a foreign car assembled in the US.

There always should have been a tariff on imports.

Ugghhhh that would only serve to increase prices on ALL automobiles. The Domestics would realize that they can raise prices simply because the imports now have to charge higher prices as well. PLUS, it would severely reduce the Domestics incentive to substantially improve their products, after all they can simply now focus on cost cutting and if sales begin to sag, they can simply lower prices, its not like the Foreign cars will be able to do the same. The tax credits would only reinforce this position.

As for the tax breaks, you can expect governments of Germany, France, and Japan to retaliate severely, which would send us into a depression era trade war (and probably a Depression to boot).

Yeah, i'd rather not have either of those two.

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>>"The Domestics would realize that they can raise prices simply because the imports now have to charge higher prices as well.

....it would severely reduce the Domestics incentive to substantially improve their products..."<<

Maybe down the road, once a Return To Prosperity is realized, but not now- they need 1. profit, and 2. volume (in that order). TO clarify- they SHOULDN'T do these things; one would hope the lessons have been learned by now.

>>"As for the tax breaks, you can expect governments of Germany, France, and Japan to retaliate severely, which would send us into a depression era trade war (and probably a Depression to boot)."<<

Can anyone verify that any worldwide trade partner to the U.S. has any concern that 'the U.S. will retaliate' ???

It always seems to me (not based on anything tangible, mind you) that everyone else is snickering up their sleeve at us....

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Can anyone verify that any worldwide trade partner to the U.S. has any concern that 'the U.S. will retaliate' ???

It always seems to me (not based on anything tangible, mind you) that everyone else is snickering up their sleeve at us....

Well if tomorrow France/Japan/Germany decided to impose a 50% tariff on any non-french/japanese/german made car, i do believe the US would retaliate.

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Well if tomorrow France/Japan/Germany decided to impose a 50% tariff on any non-french/japanese/german made car, i do believe the US would retaliate.

I agree. And if we have been in a trade war for decades, how has it harmed us? We are still the largest economy by far. Do we really want the rest of the world to be much poorer than us? Look at our southern border and the drug wars going on down there. Is that desirable?

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Interesting theory, but would never work as all other counteries would retaliate in same and you end up with protectionism that will lead to world wide economic decline.

Better to keep free trade and force the American companies to start thinking long term with quality products and then you gain market growth.

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