Tesla offers free towing for up to 500 miles in N.A.

[oldshurst442]

 

 

 

So you're saying I should spend something like a minimum of $80k on a Model S, but if I want to go on a road trip of any distance, I should spend more money to rent a gas powered car SO I CAN TRAVEL AT MY OWN WHIM?

If road-tripping at the absolute drop of a hat is a priority, maybe Tesla's not for you. Otherwise if you can spare five minutes out of your busy schedule on Google Maps and Tesla's website, you can plot out supercharger locations as well as nearby businesses and eateries that'd appreciate your half hour of patronage.

But based on your 'road trip arguments,' you appear to always be in a super rush and your time is super-duper important and you haven't a moment at all to spare and your destination expects you immediately and your schedule is incredibly time sensitive.

So Tesla isn't for a road warrin', wheelin'-dealin', pedal-to-the-metal, workin' overtime'n, string-pullin', mover-and-shaker like yourself.

 

 

That was beautifully said!

 

Thanks, Olds!

Dont mention it.

 

No really. Please dont mention it as I wasnt referring to you! 

 

[Suaviloquent]

Ah whatever, every brand must have their fanboy. It is a tautology. It is because it is. Tesla Zealots exist.

 

There's also the far bigger the ever present issue of General Morons...Foarders (like hoarders)...Mercrappies Benzers...Toyoturds...Hyundies...Piss-ans...VW Dung Beetles...

 

Yeah. 

[oldshurst442]

Ah whatever, every brand must have their fanboy. It is a tautology. It is because it is. Tesla Zealots exist.

 

There's also the far bigger the ever present issue of General Morons...Foarders (like hoarders)...Mercrappies Benzers...Toyoturds...Hyundies...Piss-ans...VW Dung Beetles...

 

Yeah. 

Isnt that the irony though, Suave?

 

That the ones that like to instruct us  about the injustices of others are them themselves not capable of seeing further than their nose...

[David]

 

Ah whatever, every brand must have their fanboy. It is a tautology. It is because it is. Tesla Zealots exist.

 

There's also the far bigger the ever present issue of General Morons...Foarders (like hoarders)...Mercrappies Benzers...Toyoturds...Hyundies...Piss-ans...VW Dung Beetles...

 

Yeah. 

Isnt that the irony though, Suave?

 

That the ones that like to instruct us  about the injustices of others are them themselves not capable of seeing further than their nose...

 

Some have pretty damn big noses!

[hyperv6]

Ah whatever, every brand must have their fanboy. It is a tautology. It is because it is. Tesla Zealots exist.

 

There's also the far bigger the ever present issue of General Morons...Foarders (like hoarders)...Mercrappies Benzers...Toyoturds...Hyundies...Piss-ans...VW Dung Beetles...

 

Yeah.

While true they all have their fan boys the pool of each tend to be more diluted due to the larger the size.

With Tesla and the new technology that lends it self to controversy and it tends to be a smaller group that tends to be more polarized or defensive.

I just saw a whole week of people attacking Stewart Haas Racing because they were offered a large sum to go to Ford. Some of these people were willing to walk off a cliff over it because they felt Tony betrayed them?? I know they are out there and they have no clue this was just a business decision.

But on the other hand with Tesla Passions run deep and with some they run off the rails at times.

While I am not a Musk fan I do hope Tesla survives as the PR fall out of a failure would do a lot of damage to all EV cars no matter the make.

The fact is both polarized ends of the EV debate need to understand this is a long term slow growth segment as there is still much to learn and much to invest in to continue the progress. With out the cars we have now no one would be investing but today with models out there investment has increased.

The key to the EV movement is not to over sell it as it leaves the segment vulnerable. The second key it not to undersell it as there is still ground to be gained here and a segment that will continue to get better.

This is simply a big picture deal and some on both sides hold a frail grasp.

[smk4565]

When you look at Tesla or electric cars in general, price and range are the drawbacks.  But look at an EV1 of 15 years ago to where Tesla is now.  Give it another 10-15 years for the technology to develop and I'd imagine Tesla will have cars out performing gas powered cars for the same cost.  Tesla for now can sell the fastest sedan and fastest SUV in the world and that lets them charge the high prices.  The problem with electrics like the Leaf or Bolt, is you get an average performing small car for $40,000.  The value equation on that sucks.  10-15 years from now if the Bolt costs the same as a gas powered Cruze, you'll see the electric cars sell.

[David]

When you look at Tesla or electric cars in general, price and range are the drawbacks.  But look at an EV1 of 15 years ago to where Tesla is now.  Give it another 10-15 years for the technology to develop and I'd imagine Tesla will have cars out performing gas powered cars for the same cost.  Tesla for now can sell the fastest sedan and fastest SUV in the world and that lets them charge the high prices.  The problem with electrics like the Leaf or Bolt, is you get an average performing small car for $40,000.  The value equation on that sucks.  10-15 years from now if the Bolt costs the same as a gas powered Cruze, you'll see the electric cars sell.

I agree with what you have stated up to the over stated price of the Bolt. Yes getting the price of a 225 mile range compact CUV down to 20-25K would be great. Instead you have a $37,500 auto that with federal incentives is $30,000. I know many who are excited by the BOLT. This will probably end up being my first electric car purchase as the wife loves the design, look and the fact she can easily plug it in and charge it without having to run to  a gas station. Perfect for going to work and running errands.

 

Unless Tesla goes to a new platform so they keep the fed discount, the Model 3 is based on the S and they are nearing 200,000 units sold which is when the fed rebate ends. Tesla could have a hard time bringing the Model 3 to market and selling it at a price people are willing to pay.

 

I want Tesla to survive the same as others have mentioned here so that it continues to grow the EV segment. I also believe that like you stated, in 10 to 15 years we will see the EV become a dominate product.

 

Imagine a Jeep Wrangler where instead of carrying extra cans of gas, you just carry extra battery cells that can be swapped out.

 

The whole approach to minimizing the impact on this planet will be helped by moving to EV's and the newest 450amp and 550amp batteries are going to help us get there.

[hyperv6]

One just needs to put this into perspective.

GM stired the water with the EV1. This pushed Toyota to do the Prius and then we got the Volt and Leaf.

These cars created a market where none existed before to get people to invest in R&D then production of better motors, batteries and other things to help spur the advancement of the EV car.

Tesla really did not break any major technical grounds but what they did was show there was a market for a much more expensive car that no one though would ever sell. They also made a EV that did not look like a Science experiment. Also all the publicity has portrayed the EV in a good light. That is why even if you hate Tesla you need to wish them well as if they stumble all EV models stumble.

But the trick will be to make a affordable car that will sell in volumes that will spur more development and better chances at making money. That is the moon shot here. GM is taking it in steps and the Bolt is just the next step. I expect a sedan from Cadillac at some point and all the other MFG's will put their hand in this game.

Now I know we made a big gain in the last 15 years but going from near nothing to where we are was the easy part now it will take time and more money and discoveries to advance into new areas for bigger gains. We will continue to see the small gains till the break through come and they could easily come as soon as next year or 10 years. You can not put a scheduled on this.

As the improvements come so will lower prices and longer ranges. They will increase in volumes and soak up a large share of the market.

I do not see the ICE vanishing anytime soon but there will be options and steady growth in the EV segment. Much of this will be due to the fact infrastructure is way behind and it will take longer for it to catch up than the advancement of the cars. Things like people living in cities parking on the street. How are you going to pay for a charge? and other things that still need to be worked out will be at time tougher to solve than other issues.

This is why companies will continue to work on many options like Hydrogen, EV, hybrid, ICE and Diesel to fill the needs of the market. It is just not a one thing fits all market.

The EV will also prove to be more like Cell Phones as once they are a little outdated people will not want them. Programs to deal with this like Cell Phone buy outs etc will have to be put in place. People will treat them like electronics as they will want the latest and the best. Lets face it old gas cars pretty much all operate like they have for years so while you may upgrade with better options you still have about the same power and MPG. EV models will gain in range, power and other features as they advance so most people who want them will go to the latest in most cases.

There is going to be a lot of changes in many areas. We here mostly focus on the car but the way we buy and sell cars will change. The way we travel may change for some people as you will have to plan your life a little different to own a EV. People used to just putting in a couple bucks of gas will have to make a better effort to plug in as running out of electric is not like walking with a can to get a gallon. I never understood that one.

For sure the future will be interesting.

[David]

Seattle has many places on the streets where you can parralel park, plug in your auto and swipe your credit card and charge while you shop or do your appointment.

 

Yes the west coast is farther along than elswhere but I can clearly see the writting on the wall. Just time before like the gas car, the EV becomes dominate.

[ocnblu]

People on the west coast are living in their own alternate reality.  The huge vast majority of the country lives in the real world.

[hyperv6]

Seattle has many places on the streets where you can parralel park, plug in your auto and swipe your credit card and charge while you shop or do your appointment.

 

Yes the west coast is farther along than elsewhere but I can clearly see the writing on the wall. Just time before like the gas car, the EV becomes dominate.

We are well aware of the west coast and where they are with infrastructure. The issue is the states touching the water on the west coast are much different than most other states. People here are just no where as interested in alternative powered cars. It is growing but at a much slower rate and this will slow infrastructure too. This is why Chevy is introducing the Volt on the west coast and I would assume the Bolt there first.

I am not going to say anyone is right or wrong here but there is a difference in priorities and that is why all forms of power will be used.

One must also remember We are no were as green centric here in many other states. The problem lies is that while California is mostly one big city from TJ to Santa Barbra the rest of the country is pretty much open territory.

I am sure you have flown over the country and noted there is just a hell of a lot of nothing in between. Now few people are going to buy EV cars way out in no where and few people are going to install chargers in places where there are no cars.

While EV may gain traction in the tree hugging west the rest will take up to it at a much slower pace and will need even more advancement of faster charging and longer range.

The fact is EV cars are just not yet suited for everyone lifestyle at this point. Will we get there at some point? I expect we will but it will be a while longer.

Then you have places like TX and OK with a lot of oil and many people working in the oil business that drive trucks and know we are not going to run out of oil in their life time nor do they have Emissions issues held in by mountain ranges. To them if its not broke why fix it.

So while the west coast see's it differently other areas in like have different priorities, needs and other views.

The EV is not a one vehicle fits all yet and may not be with some areas and segments.

In fact I can see EV cars not doing well in cold climates. It is tough on gas as it is but Electric is tough to do in the cold. More work for more power in places like Alaska where nothing is close and it is colder than hell most of the years. Same for many parts of Canada.

Even here in the mid west you see few EV cars and even less in the winter.

Speaking of odd things. One area not considered is weight. It is now coming to the attention of many that the Tesla X is too heavy for the Brooklyn Bridge. Many SUV models are but at approaching 6000 pounds there are many bridges in this country out in the country that can not support this. Not a big deal but a deal all the same. Other odd things will crop up over time.

Right now the goal should be for slow steady growth and in the end we will have a mix of many different options. The only way to kill of the ICE is to make a law against it and that would be a while as many in these fly over states would never support anyone that would push that.

[David]

People on the west coast are living in their own alternate reality.  The huge vast majority of the country lives in the real world.

If we live in an alternate reality, then it is the one that also is creating the bulk of this countries new wealth and pushing the future forward. Live in the past if you want Ocn, but the fact is, 15-20 years from now, your best truck could be an EV where you swap out Battery Cells to fuel it. After all, once the industry standardizes on battery cells, It could be as simple as driving on your road trip, pull in to a Cell Station and for a fee they swap out the cell pack and your recharged and full in minutes and on your way.

 

Why fear the future when there is so many exciting things to enjoy. Remember stagnation is the death of creation and life. You need to ask yourself, are you really happy staying static or are you embracing all you can be with learning, changing and enjoying life?

 

We need to enjoy and take care of our history, current and future. Just never stop learning, otherwise you can become stone.

[hyperv6]

People on the west coast are living in their own alternate reality.  The huge vast majority of the country lives in the real world.

If we live in an alternate reality, then it is the one that also is creating the bulk of this countries new wealth and pushing the future forward. Live in the past if you want Ocn, but the fact is, 15-20 years from now, your best truck could be an EV where you swap out Battery Cells to fuel it. After all, once the industry standardizes on battery cells, It could be as simple as driving on your road trip, pull in to a Cell Station and for a fee they swap out the cell pack and your recharged and full in minutes and on your way.

 

Why fear the future when there is so many exciting things to enjoy. Remember stagnation is the death of creation and life. You need to ask yourself, are you really happy staying static or are you embracing all you can be with learning, changing and enjoying life?

 

We need to enjoy and take care of our history, current and future. Just never stop learning, otherwise you can become stone.

There is two ways to look at this. You may be creating new wealth but you also are costing the consumer a ton more money to do things that were so simple and cheap before.

You keep pushing cell swaps? You do realize that Elon even gave up on this as it is not practical or as easy as some would like to make it out as. To me it is like where you trade in your good Propane tank and get a crummy one back.

As for the future you need to use care and judgment in doing so as some folks like the Oil Lobbyist are also doing the same for some of the green companies all in the name of profits. In other words the same lies that are being told on the oil side are also being told on the other side.

The path to the future is incorporating new technologies but not forcing them down on everyone at much higher cost and the change of life style be required.

I think we all have experienced the good like the LED TV's and better computers but we also have had to deal with more efficient water heaters that work more poorly and cost much more to replace, Also we have washing machines that are more efficient but you have to do some loads twice to get them clean.

Also how man here have been forced to use a new efficient John Wayne Toilet as a replacement? You know the one that won't take $hit off anyone unless you flush it 2 times.

The future and better more efficient products are fine but they must be as good or better than what they replace to sell everyone. Some folks are all in to save the planet but most are just wanting to get by in life and not have to deal with replacement products that often are more efficient because they do not work as well. Besides how efficient is doing two loads of laundry when the inefficient ones would do it in one.

If you want people to buy in make it better than it was and and those who are not in the the Green thing will be fine with the changes. Even the added cost will be fine if they can get a product that really works as well of better. Give them a poorer product and charge more for it and they will not buy into any of this.

Also I worry about the smart products. How long till Uncle Sam starts to limit or control the amount of Electricity you can use. There are many who want to pass laws where they can monitor you and limit your usage even if you are paying for it. Where does the line stop? If you want the heat at 77 degrees then you should have it. If you want the AC at 65 then that is your choice.

We already see where people are now forced to use less water because of low flow toilets that do not work well and shower heads that just do not rinse. There was even a Seinfeld episode on that one. I see people going around salvaging old toilets to get the old style today.

The next big beef will be the smaller and smaller cars.

We are not at the end of the rope now nor will we be anytime soon so we have time to work these things in and to better develop them before they are forced on the people. America is made up of mostly people that hold the you can't tell me what to do attitude and they will revolt over these things if force fed. To bring these changes in you would want to do it in small steps and over time.

Just keep in mind that a lot of people are pushing the green agenda not because they are out to save the planet but because they can make a ton of money off new legislation.

It is true we should clean things up and try to be more efficient. Few people have a beef with that. But the part that is not truthful is this is not something that has to be done in 5 years. The best way to deceive people is to take a truth and then lie. Both side are doing it so I am fair on this as neither are saints.

The truth is there is a high price to pay to make all the changes that some are wanting in a short time. This will hurt the pockets of many of the people that can not afford to pay more. Just look at the cutting of coal plants with no real affordable replacement. We already are now seeing the utilities wanting to jack the rates to pay for the higher cost replacements. This is not on the backs of the companies bu the consumers.

No one has to look farther than the added cost on a car today to how much all this is costing the consumer. This is a economy killer if all done at once. For sure some will make money in the Green market but look a the common customer to pay for it all. The money has to come from someones pockets.

The best way to a clean environment is to kill of industry. Just ask Youngstown as it has never been cleaner.

I respect your view and agree on what we should be working for but not on the time table and cost you want to see it done. There is a little right in what we both say here and that is what needs to be worked out. This is not a black and white issue the real answer is in the middle.

As it is now California has suffered terribly under eviro regulations. They have lost so much industry and so much has moved from the state. Regulation and taxation is no way to grow an Economy. When the state goes bankrupt it will be then put on the backs of those of us in the fly over states that work in moderation because we are not the ones who went broke. It is a matter of time before California goes broke. One major earthquake will make a Hurricane look like a breeze as they can not afford to rebuild.

Edited February 29, 2016 by hyperv6

[ocnblu]

I am just going to say this... again.  I would run my house on solar energy if I could afford it.  I love nature and the environment.  I also know that ICE vehicles are cleaner than they've ever been.  I HAVE NO FEAR of electric vehicles... how in the world can anyone say I fear them if they've read my posts?  They are just not practical for the vast majority of drivers.  They do not meet needs.  We have hundreds of years of oil in the ground.  To quote a wise person... if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

I'm an auto enthusiast.  I love the mechanical aspects of vehicles... the noises, the soul of an engine running.  Electrics offer nothing that I wish for.  Fear is far from what I feel about them.  I feel nothing but disdain for electrics, and what they take away from the driving experience.  There are simply too many compromises involved in electric vehicle ownership.  They limit freedom.

 

I guarantee you, when a new administration moves into Washington, DC, there will be different priorities moved to the forefront, no matter the party the new president represents.

 

CAFE needs to be repealed.  All it does is limit choice... that is literally all it does.  I work for a living.  I pay my beels, yo.  I do not want to be told what to spend my money on... because I WORKED FOR IT.

[hyperv6]

I am just going to say this... again.  I would run my house on solar energy if I could afford it.  I love nature and the environment.  I also know that ICE vehicles are cleaner than they've ever been.  I HAVE NO FEAR of electric vehicles... how in the world can anyone say I fear them if they've read my posts?  They are just not practical for the vast majority of drivers.  They do not meet needs.  We have hundreds of years of oil in the ground.  To quote a wise person... if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

I'm an auto enthusiast.  I love the mechanical aspects of vehicles... the noises, the soul of an engine running.  Electrics offer nothing that I wish for.  Fear is far from what I feel about them.  I feel nothing but disdain for electrics, and what they take away from the driving experience.  There are simply too many compromises involved in electric vehicle ownership.  They limit freedom.

 

I guarantee you, when a new administration moves into Washington, DC, there will be different priorities moved to the forefront, no matter the party the new president represents.

 

CAFE needs to be repealed.  All it does is limit choice... that is literally all it does.  I work for a living.  I pay my beels, yo.  I do not want to be told what to spend my money on... because I WORKED FOR IT.

And see the green zealots need to respect this as most of us are not saying we want to kill a polar bear by stranding it on a Ice Flow [one of their greatest lies as they spend most of their time swimming. Just not everyone is fully bought in on all that is claimed nor is the technology there to work for everyone as it still has a ways to go yet.

This has been my point all along as EV cars will need to a point that they do not require a life style adjustment for most people to accept them. Longer ranges and faster charging will resolve most of that but we are not there yet.

Give people a EV that will charge fully in the time it takes to fill a tank of gas and the ability to charge just about anywhere and more people will buy in. Till then it will take a mix of technologies to fit all the needs and want.

There is no wrong cars but you still need to be able to buy what you want and need.

As for the next election. I really do not expect much to change on CAFE as even the Conservatives are against rolling it back at this point. We can hope but. As for Hillary. She is for raising it if she is not indited first.

The key here is to respect all technologies as we will have them all for a good while as no single one will replace the others. It will remain a little of this and little of that and a little of both.

[David]

 

I am just going to say this... again.  I would run my house on solar energy if I could afford it.  I love nature and the environment.  I also know that ICE vehicles are cleaner than they've ever been.  I HAVE NO FEAR of electric vehicles... how in the world can anyone say I fear them if they've read my posts?  They are just not practical for the vast majority of drivers.  They do not meet needs.  We have hundreds of years of oil in the ground.  To quote a wise person... if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

I'm an auto enthusiast.  I love the mechanical aspects of vehicles... the noises, the soul of an engine running.  Electrics offer nothing that I wish for.  Fear is far from what I feel about them.  I feel nothing but disdain for electrics, and what they take away from the driving experience.  There are simply too many compromises involved in electric vehicle ownership.  They limit freedom.

 

I guarantee you, when a new administration moves into Washington, DC, there will be different priorities moved to the forefront, no matter the party the new president represents.

 

CAFE needs to be repealed.  All it does is limit choice... that is literally all it does.  I work for a living.  I pay my beels, yo.  I do not want to be told what to spend my money on... because I WORKED FOR IT.

And see the green zealots need to respect this as most of us are not saying we want to kill a polar bear by stranding it on a Ice Flow [one of their greatest lies as they spend most of their time swimming. Just not everyone is fully bought in on all that is claimed nor is the technology there to work for everyone as it still has a ways to go yet.

This has been my point all along as EV cars will need to a point that they do not require a life style adjustment for most people to accept them. Longer ranges and faster charging will resolve most of that but we are not there yet.

Give people a EV that will charge fully in the time it takes to fill a tank of gas and the ability to charge just about anywhere and more people will buy in. Till then it will take a mix of technologies to fit all the needs and want.

There is no wrong cars but you still need to be able to buy what you want and need.

As for the next election. I really do not expect much to change on CAFE as even the Conservatives are against rolling it back at this point. We can hope but. As for Hillary. She is for raising it if she is not indited first.

The key here is to respect all technologies as we will have them all for a good while as no single one will replace the others. It will remain a little of this and little of that and a little of both.

 

OUTSTANDING GUYS!

 

This is my whole purpose in stating what I have stated is to get others to expand on their thoughts and give a clearer picture of how they see things. You are both right in many ways, this country is built on options. Technology should be available at a reasonable price but also where it makes life better and not just money for a few. There are many things for everyone including myself to learn from history and make sure we do not repeat.

 

Love both of your statements. Thank you

[hyperv6]

Well this deal is like the show I watched last night on the 787. Boeing wanted to make a plane that was smaller and faster to fly direct like many airlines want to do today. Customers love fast and they love direct.

The problem is even with technology to do this available the cost of fuel went up in little over 10 years ago and stopped the program.

Airlines at this point were ok with slower but they still wanted the composite plane fuselage and other technology advances to where they could keep cost down on fuel and still fly direct overseas.

Technology and cost like above is always a compromise. While we are capable of many things you need to base it to the point where the average American can still afford it.

Passing laws forcing to remove some options in making power may advance the programs but it also has driven up cost to the consumer. Not everyone wants to pay for it in this way. If you could work to merge this in over a period of time you could reduce cost and also still get ahead at a reasonable pace. Just banning Coal or even like some have wanted ICE engines will be disruptive and expensive.

Right now there is a big fight between groups supporting different plans on how we should advance. There is infighting on things from whole systems to what kind of universal plug for an EV car should be used. Why are they fighting? Because many people are invested and could stand to make or lose billions on the choices offered.

The fact is not all have our good in mind with these changes many are just motivated by profit and want to force their invested versions through before someone else comes up with something better.

That is just part of the competition here and the ugly side of it.

The key will be to get some legitimate political people that can put in plans that will do a balanced and timed approach in putting in the technology where it will not bankrupt the average consumer.