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Glorious victory: How the Camaro takes it to Bavaria's finest

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Been saying it for a while.. BMW lost it. The fact that U have Chevys.. let alone Cadillacs now beating BMW in a genre it created also tells U exactly who BMW is targeting with this Bavarian Bull$h!... and it ain't the cool kids or the enthusiasts. I will also throw this on the M5 and M6. After driving both.. I came away feeling completely unsatisfied and as if nothing was special about either. 

 

I will say that the LF4 in the ATSV vs the LT1 in the Camaro is a matter of preference. I still believe that Cadillac should have anything above 450HP sporting an LT series engine.. anything under that HP number should have a tunable TT from 2.0L to 3.6L.. these being base to VSports. 

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I watched this..last week..maybe,, and it was awesome. Go 'Merica!  :unitedstates:

 

I don't really remember it all of the top of my head but I recall a massive discrepancy in value INCLUDING the interiors and standard features that the BMW just lacks. 

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For $81,000 the M4 is no longer competitive. And before the V8 they used before had a unique sound.

 

Now we're finding that the V8s are becoming more rare.

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WOW, Very interesting comparison.

 

M4

 

425HP / 406 lb-ft

 6sp manual

110.7 Wheelbase

3512lbs

Cost $81,045

 

Camaro

 

455hp / 455 lb-ft

6sp manual

110.7 Wheelbase

3696lbs

Cost $46,095

 

WOW, not purfect but the Camaro clearly cleans up.

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WOW, Listen to them just rip apart the nickel and dime BS of BMW that comes standard on the Camaro! BMW has finally really failed!

 

Love the Knock about Overhead dual cams. As many of us have stated, the small block V8 still rules over turbo!

 

Hats off to Chevy, Camaro is a superior sports car.

 

Gotta love their quotes.

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BMW is between a rock and a hard place. 

With new regulations it has limited their ability to do many things anymore and have had to go conservative. 

Now GM also has shown how they can really do a car right and refined with the proper funding for once. The days of just slapping stiffer springs, larger bars and bigger tires are over. This has put the BMW like performance in cars much cheaper than their own. 

Now few will cross shop these cars but it will spur interest in some and a really cool David and Goliath story. 

 

GM and the Camaro will carve out their own place in the market. The first thing they need to do is try to stop the Pony car label from being applied as they are truly a world class GT car that is still affordable. 

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The problem with BMW is they took a V8 and went down to a straight six with the same power, and jacked up the price.  It is a 335i with more boost for another $25,000.      The fact that so much equipment is still optional is crazy, considering the high cost.  I don't know if BMW was just going for more luxury and lost steering feel and handling along the way, but if they are going to luxury, why are their interiors so much worse than Mercedes.   BMW should have kept the 4.0 V8 and put turbos on that, but they messed that one up.

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As much as I want to celebrate and dance with glee....

(OK...let me show some level of joyous enthusiasm)

 

giphy.gif

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

But....unfortunately...butterface.

18ff361420f3e3fb9a6670f9de567760529a93fb

 

 

 

Well...Ill admit...Id take the Camaro out for a spin...umm....maybe not!!!! :yuck:

EpicButterface.png

Edited by oldshurst442

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The problem with BMW is they took a V8 and went down to a straight six with the same power, and jacked up the price.  It is a 335i with more boost for another $25,000.      The fact that so much equipment is still optional is crazy, considering the high cost.  I don't know if BMW was just going for more luxury and lost steering feel and handling along the way, but if they are going to luxury, why are their interiors so much worse than Mercedes.   BMW should have kept the 4.0 V8 and put turbos on that, but they messed that one up.

 

 

Much of the engine play is because of the emissions laws in various markets. Some also due to engine size taxes too. 

As for Chassis tuning it was just a choice as so many BMW owners are getting older maybe they expect a smoother ride? That one you can choose. 

As for interior the Germans really have never set the world on fires unless you like all dark leather. They are to blame for many of the dull interiors the other MFG have copied.

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Only thing I would say RE the Camaro is it could be an inch to 1.5-in lower.
 

I'm a big block guy, but man! that SB sounds awesome!

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Only thing I would say RE the Camaro is it could be an inch to 1.5-in lower.

 

I'm a big block guy, but man! that SB sounds awesome!

Yeah, the SBC does sound awesome.

 

And Im being too harsh on the Camaro's looks myself.

It really is an attractive car on the Alpha Platform.

It does look better than the BMW M4.

Ive grown more tired of the BMW M4 faster than I have with the Camaro's looks.

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Only thing I would say RE the Camaro is it could be an inch to 1.5-in lower.

 

I'm a big block guy, but man! that SB sounds awesome!

Maaaan I noticed that too! I actually took a couple of screen shots when they were doing the donuts and it looked like that front end was a foot off the ground. I'll try and post it Monday when I can add pictures(can't from my phone)

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The problem with BMW is they took a V8 and went down to a straight six with the same power, and jacked up the price.  It is a 335i with more boost for another $25,000.      The fact that so much equipment is still optional is crazy, considering the high cost.  I don't know if BMW was just going for more luxury and lost steering feel and handling along the way, but if they are going to luxury, why are their interiors so much worse than Mercedes.   BMW should have kept the 4.0 V8 and put turbos on that, but they messed that one up.

 

 

Much of the engine play is because of the emissions laws in various markets. Some also due to engine size taxes too. 

As for Chassis tuning it was just a choice as so many BMW owners are getting older maybe they expect a smoother ride? That one you can choose. 

As for interior the Germans really have never set the world on fires unless you like all dark leather. They are to blame for many of the dull interiors the other MFG have copied.

 

Audi has made good interiors for years, Mercedes currently does also.  And Mercedes put a V8 in the C-class, they have to follow the same rules as BMW.   BMW gave up on what made the 90s and early 2000s M3 and M5 so good.  They better find their secret sauce again.  Luckily for them, they have a loyal following.

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The problem with BMW is they took a V8 and went down to a straight six with the same power, and jacked up the price.  It is a 335i with more boost for another $25,000.      The fact that so much equipment is still optional is crazy, considering the high cost.  I don't know if BMW was just going for more luxury and lost steering feel and handling along the way, but if they are going to luxury, why are their interiors so much worse than Mercedes.   BMW should have kept the 4.0 V8 and put turbos on that, but they messed that one up.

 

 

Much of the engine play is because of the emissions laws in various markets. Some also due to engine size taxes too. 

As for Chassis tuning it was just a choice as so many BMW owners are getting older maybe they expect a smoother ride? That one you can choose. 

As for interior the Germans really have never set the world on fires unless you like all dark leather. They are to blame for many of the dull interiors the other MFG have copied.

 

Audi has made good interiors for years, Mercedes currently does also.  And Mercedes put a V8 in the C-class, they have to follow the same rules as BMW.   BMW gave up on what made the 90s and early 2000s M3 and M5 so good.  They better find their secret sauce again.  Luckily for them, they have a loyal following.

 

 

The Germans on a whole make dark, drab looking uninspired interiors as a whole. Even in the top quality models they are dull. 

 

In the more base models they are down right cheap. I have two examples of 944 Seats in my garage now that show how cheesy they can be. 

 

As for Benz did they put a BMW V8 in their car and is that same car the same one BMW sends to other markets where Benz may offer different engines. Dude you really need to look at all the details not just the superficial ones. 

 

It is not so much a loyal following but the fact their image still sells. People like to say I own a Beemer and their friends are too stupid to know that really does not hold as much meaning anymore. 

 

Note too When I say crap interiors I do not question the Benz quality but I do question the look and styling. Hence the dull, drab and dark. The lighter colors are rare. Note I hate most Chevy interiors for the same thing. 

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BMW styling is beyond tired. Same thing, minority tweaked, over & over & over & over again. Bo Ring.

 

 

It is tired but the last time they tired to fix it we got the Bangle look with the big butt and  Dame Edna front. It made it where they were better off with tired styling. 

 

I think BMW is to a point time has moved on and they can not find that formula to move forward. They are afraid to do too much different but yet the conservative moves are leaving them behind. That is why cars like a Camaro are as much fun to drive now. If they can find the image thing BMW is in real trouble. 

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BMW styling is beyond tired. Same thing, minority tweaked, over & over & over & over again. Bo Ring.

Same old thing, like the Camaro, Corvette and Mustang.  Yet those are considered America's best.

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Yes, these are so dark, drab and monotone.  Any car with black on black interior is monotone, so don't pick all black, they offer other colors.

 

2012_audi_a6_16.jpg

 

 

001-2017-mercedes-e-class-interior-1.jpg

 

audi-a8-2014-interior-wallpaper-3.jpg

 

7seriessedan.overview.interior.jpg

This one is really dark...

2016-bmw-7-series-interior-images-1900x1

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BMW styling is beyond tired. Same thing, minority tweaked, over & over & over & over again. Bo Ring.

Same old thing, like the Camaro, Corvette and Mustang.  Yet those are considered America's best.

 

Could you have made a more ignorant post?

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Yes, these are so dark, drab and monotone.  Any car with black on black interior is monotone, so don't pick all black, they offer other colors.

 

2012_audi_a6_16.jpg

 

 

001-2017-mercedes-e-class-interior-1.jpg

 

audi-a8-2014-interior-wallpaper-3.jpg

 

7seriessedan.overview.interior.jpg

This one is really dark...

2016-bmw-7-series-interior-images-1900x1

And, once again, you are not paying attention. He mentioned that they offered the lighter colors but the majority out there are of the black and drab variety. He never said, not once, that they ONLY offered the dark and drab. Go ahead and deny that if you want, but me personally, I have rarely seen any of those colors you have shown here out in the wild. Clearly, most MB buyers (and BMW buyers as well), prefer dark and drab looking. 

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Well that is like saying most cars are silver and beige, and it is boring.   If a company offers 10 colors and 50% of the consumers pick gray/silver, then it isn't the companies fault that more people don't buy red or yellow.

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All I know is that I spent some time noodling around in the Cadilac CT6 this evening and the materials, styling, and sound system (especially the sound system) were pretty epic. Also, reclining back seats are cool.

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      The functionality of the vehicle’s Traction Control System has also been adjusted to allow for less aggressive interventions, particularly on corner exit. These adjustments also help deliver a more performance-based vehicle response.
      SportsCat’s stylish 18” forged alloys are wrapped in Cooper (Zeon LTZ Pro) Sports All-Terrain tyres. These Cooper tyres are a hybrid between a sports-truck tyre and an all-terrain tyre and, in addition to their rugged off-road properties, were specially selected by HSV’s chassis engineers for their outstanding on-road performance characteristics, most notably on tarmac and dirt roads. The overall size of the tyres (285/60 R18), and their rolling radius, also delivers a further 20mm increase in vehicle ride height for a total (front) ride height increase of 45mm.
      In commenting on the engineering enhancements, HSV’s Engineering Director, Joel Stoddart, said “We set ourselves some pretty aggressive targets heading into the SportsCat program. We wanted to set the bench-mark for on-road performance without compromising the vehicle’s off-road capabilities. In fact, we’ve managed to improve the vehicle’s off-road performance, so I’m confident the team has delivered on both counts”.
      In addition to the styling and engineering enhancements developed by HSV on the new SportsCat range, the vehicle also carries over a raft of core vehicle features that help complete the premium offering.
      From a performance perspective, both SportsCat models are powered by a 2.8 litre double overhead cam Duramax Turbo Diesel engine that offers 147kW of power and up to 500Nm of torque when specified with the optional 6-speed automatic transmission with Active Select. A 6-speed manual transmission is standard fare.
      Braked towing capacity of 3,500kg and a maximum payload of approximately 1 tonne deliver impressive workhorse capabilities.
      The stylish HSV modifications to the interior also complement a breadth of already impressive driver and cabin comforts and technologies including an 8” colour touch screen, embedded Satellite Navigation, a premium 7-speaker audio, a rear-view camera and seven airbags.
      Said HSV’s Managing Director, Tim Jackson, “Most 4x4’s Pick-Ups are inherently capable off-road – essentially, it’s a category expectation, and we’ll certainly be amongst the best-in-class in this regard, especially with our added ride height and Cooper tyre package. But what we also wanted to do with the SportsCat program was dial up the vehicle’s on-road characteristics, given that’s where most people tend to spend the bulk of their time driving their vehicle. With our unique suspension packages and AP Racing brakes combined with the interior and exterior comfort and styling enhancements we’ve made, we’re confident we’ve developed Australia’s most stylish and advanced sports 4x4”.
      The SportsCat range is due to start production at HSV’s new facility in Clayton, Victoria, late January, with Recommended Retail Pricing to be confirmed closer to model availability.
      CHEVROLET SILVERADO
      For over 100 years, Chevrolet has forged an enviable reputation for building strong and dependable “full-size” pick-up trucks, and HSV has committed to bringing their pinnacle model – the Silverado – to Australia and New Zealand.
      Power, payload and towing capability are what Silverado is famous for and all these attributes will be reflected in the five-model 4x4 Crew Cab line-up that HSV will offer:
      2500HD WT 2500HD LTZ 2500HD LTZ “Midnight” Edition 2500HD LTZ “Custom Sport” Edition 3500HD LTZ All five vehicles share the same impressive heavy-duty equipment including:
      Duramax 6.6L Turbo Diesel V8 engine ~332kW of power ~1,234 Nm of torque Allison 1000 6-speed automatic transmission Towing capacity of ~3.5 – ~6.1 tonne (model dependent) Payload capacity of ~1,140kg – ~1,848kg (model dependent) 4-wheel anti-lock disc brakes Automatic locking rear differential Said HSV’s Managing Director, Tim Jackson, “The availability of the Chevrolet Silverado range opens up some wonderful new opportunities for our business in a market segment whose potential is relatively un-tapped, and we believe has high growth potential”.
      “Whether it be the farming or mining sectors, those who need to pull a large caravan or horse float or simply those who want awesome towing and load carrying capability, Silverado is the pinnacle of the GM range”, he said.
      Conversion of the Silverado range will commence at HSV’s new production facility in April 2018. The 3500HD LTZ model will be available late in Q2, 2018.
      Recommended Retail Pricing is still to be confirmed.
      CHEVROLET CAMARO
      The Chevrolet Camaro defines performance and this legendary nameplate, in the form of the Camaro 2SS Coupe, will also be imported and converted to right-hand-drive by HSV, and available in 2018.
      The driving force behind the Camaro 2SS is Chevrolet’s 6.2L Generation V LT1 Direct Injection V8 engine mated to an 8-speed, paddle-shift automatic transmission and generating up to 340kW of power and 615Nm of torque.
      The vehicle’s Performance suspension provides a dynamic connection to the road with stopping power delivered by 4-piston Brembo front & rear performance brakes with fixed callipers.
      High Intensity Discharge (HID) headlamps and LED Daytime Running Lamps deliver signature front-end appeal while stylish 20”, 5-split-spoke alloys (8.5” front & 9.5” rear) are wrapped in 245/40ZR20 (front) and 275/35ZR20 (rear) Goodyear Eagle tyres. A rear stanchion spoiler and dual-outlet exhaust with bright tips add aggression at the tail.
      The interior of the Camaro 2SS delivers the perfect marriage of form and function. It starts with power-adjustable heated and ventilated leather-trimmed front sports bucket seats for optimum comfort and support, complemented by a leather-wrapped, flat-bottom sports-profile steering wheel for ultimate grip.
      Dual zone automatic climate control, a 9-speaker Bose premium audio and 24 colour interior spectrum lighting enhance interior ambience while the Head-up Display, Drive Mode Selector and Enhanced Driver Information Centre blend exhilaration with innovation. 
      Conversion of the Camaro 2SS is due to commence at HSV in July 2018 with Recommended Retail Pricing still to be confirmed.

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