Gas vs. Electric: Which Is the Better Hyundai Kona?

[ykX]

Interesting article at Motortrend

MotorTrend

[David]

1 hour ago, ykX said:

Interesting article at Motortrend

MotorTrend

Thanks for posting, this is a good read on a even comparison of the Electric Kona to the Turbo Gas version and how both ended up liking the electric over the ICE. Not planning for charging, I can understand the stupid increase in cost, but so much more to like about the EV. Great Read!  

[ykX]

I know they liked the EV over ICE Kona, however if you look at the price difference (and they choose both vehicles with similar equipment) it is still doesn't make sense financially:

$29k for ICE vs $46.6 for EV.   Even  taking into account $7k deduction for EV it is still a staggering difference of almost $11k for basically the same vehicle.  I like EVs but right now it still doesn't make sense financially.

[David]

3 minutes ago, ykX said:

I know they liked the EV over ICE Kona, however if you look at the price difference (and they choose both vehicles with similar equipment) it is still doesn't make sense financially:

$29k for ICE vs $46.6 for EV.   Even  taking into account $7k deduction for EV it is still a staggering difference of almost $11k for basically the same vehicle.  I like EVs but right now it still doesn't make sense financially.

They also do not take into account various state discounts for owning an EV. California give more discounts too plus free install of a 220V Level 2 charger at home. Course you also have in some states like Washington, no sales take on EVs and free home charging level 2 so those can all add up to making the auto on par with ICE. Plus unlike California, 6 cents per kWh for power is dirt cheap compared to $3 plus dollars per gallon of gas.

[balthazar]

...free install of a 220V Level 2 charger at home

Somebody pays for that, buddy.

[oldshurst442]

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

 

Somebody pays for that, buddy.

yup...   taxes taxes taxes.   

(same government website as before) 

https://vehiculeselectriques.gouv.qc.ca/english/rabais/domicile/programme-remboursement-borne-recharge-domicile.asp

Like I said...the Quebec government subsidizes certain amounts to businesses, home owners, property owners,  fleet companies etc....everything that is EV related for Quebeckers to easily adapt to and adopt EVs. 

The citizens actually dont complain about that. We accept it and want to continue this way.

We actually dont mind spending the 2.5 times the amount for EV school buses versus the diesel ones. Ive heard on Montreal news that some parents are demanding that the school boards switch over to EVs.  

Now...our government sometimes spend money left, right and center.  Our government is known to be um....corrupt.

But regarding EV school buses, our government is more along the thought processes of Balthy's way of thinking.  We havent switched fully to EV public transportation buses and EV school buses because the government does want to properly amortize the fleets its got now.  

I know that Montreal has a few 100% EV buses going on, but most of its fleet is natural gas.  

School buses are diesels and Im not aware if we have EVs in our fleets just yet. 

 

 

Edited January 23, 2020 by oldshurst442

[David]

I will say once your on a quiet EV public bus, you never want to go back onto a Diesel, propane or CNG bus again. I love the EV buses running around the streets of Seattle, hate it when you hear a noisy diesel bus from across county lines pull into a stop. The noise, smell just is terrible.

[balthazar]

Other than 1 on-campus bus ride about 9 years ago, I haven't been on a bus I don't think in 25 years.
I did ride the high school bus to the end, didn't smell anything and the noise was inconsequential (mostly gear and tire sounds).

Some people don't care for the ozone smell of electric motors.

[David]

16 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Other than 1 on-campus bus ride about 9 years ago, I haven't been on a bus I don't think in 25 years.
I did ride the high school bus to the end, didn't smell anything and the noise was inconsequential (mostly gear and tire sounds).

Some people don't care for the ozone smell of electric motors.

Never smelled the ozone of the electric motors, but how quiet they are is sure nice.

[ocnblu]

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

I will say once your on a quiet EV public bus, you never want to go back onto a Diesel, propane or CNG bus again. I love the EV buses running around the streets of Seattle, hate it when you hear a noisy diesel bus from across county lines pull into a stop. The noise, smell just is terrible.

LOL the false tears.  Cry!

If you really read the article... what Motor Trend REALLY doesn't like about the turbo Kona is the TRANSMISSION, which is a dual clutch.  NOBODY likes the type of DCT that is in the Kona.  This is a cop-out on MT's part.  Buy the 2.0 with conventional automatic and save even MORE over the exorbitant MSRP of the uglier EV version.

[oldshurst442]

Its only ugly because you dont like EVs...

THAT would be a cop out on YOUR part...

See what you did there?  See what I did there?

This is what I got from the article:

EVs are not cost effective (for most people) just yet.  (That would be a  No shyte Sherlock moment actually...no need for a MT article to point that out)

But...I also got "life is full of  small inconveniences" and "capitalism lets us profit from it"  regarding charge stations.  And that one just compliments another video I saw yesterday. 

I also got that EV infrastructure and battery range has improved to the point that range anxiety (at least in California...and in Quebec)  is literally a NON-ISSUE...   What I got is...at least in California...and in Quebec... that an EV of at the very least a KONA EV, one could travel decent distances and not worry about being stranded and eaten by wolves because of desolation...as haterz like to tell their tales against EVs.

 

47 minutes ago, ocnblu said:

Buy the 2.0 with conventional automatic and save even MORE over the exorbitant MSRP EV version                

Your blindness and hatred to EVs and you misread...and misinterpret. 

Quote

Whereas you're always working around the gas Kona's laggy turbo and lurchy transmission, the Kona Electric couldn't be smoother. Its power—and critically, its torque—is available the instant you dip into the throttle, allowing you to zip off the line or plug a gap in traffic. "The EV is almost continuously better to drive than the gas," Reynolds said. "Its silky acceleration and right-foot response are akin to a Rolls-Royce."

 

You could read into the 1.6 liter is rough and tough because transmission...but you omit that even comparing a 2.0 KONA..."The EV is almost continuously better to drive than the gas," Reynolds said. "Its silky acceleration and right-foot response are akin to a Rolls-Royce."

And to boot, the EV is SLOWER than the 1.6 gas 0-60...   

You could hate on EVs, man....but at least when reading an article...please dont misinterpret  the information given.  Or at least try not to. Regardless of your feelings towards things you hate on. 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 24, 2020 by oldshurst442

[oldshurst442]

I quoted the wrong section...

1 hour ago, ocnblu said:

If you really read the article... what Motor Trend REALLY doesn't like about the turbo Kona is the TRANSMISSION, which is a dual clutch.  NOBODY likes the type of DCT that is in the Kona.

This is the part I wanted to quote you on...

And no...Motor Trend did not cop out on anything...   EVs are REALLY REALLY smooth. THAT is the point...

THAT is what YOU misinterpreted... and un-ironically...they compare an EV ride to an ICE powered isolation luxury machine that costs more to buy than real estate in certain cases...

 

Edited January 24, 2020 by oldshurst442

[David]

Lynnwood Mall updated their chargers. Free charging of quick charges.

[ocnblu]

9 hours ago, oldshurst442 said:

You could read into the 1.6 liter is rough and tough because transmission...but you omit that even comparing a 2.0 KONA..."The EV is almost continuously better to drive than the gas," Reynolds said. "Its silky acceleration and right-foot response are akin to a Rolls-Royce."

And to boot, the EV is SLOWER than the 1.6 gas 0-60...   

You could hate on EVs, man....but at least when reading an article...please dont misinterpret  the information given.  Or at least try not to. Regardless of your feelings towards things you hate on. 

Your comment only reinforces what I'm saying.  They are not comparing the 2.0 Kona to the electric version, they are trying to run up the price as high as possible on the gas version to soften the blow for soft-headed readers re:  difference in MSRP, by using the turbo, DCT equipped car to try to get it as close as possible to the expensive EV.  A boring electric motor linked to a CVT is going to be seamless, duh, but "seamless" can be a synonym for "dull", and "characterless", which is certainly the case when comparing these two.  The electric Kona is uglier also because of the veiled face and ghey interior it's got.  Kona SE AWD is $22k MSRP.  It is the smartest choice in the Kona family.  They quit using the turbo/DCT powertrain in the Tucson because of issues.  Motor Trend is using their platform to advance their California agenda while pointing out the obvious issues Hyundai has with the 1.6/DCT combination.  This article, to me, is more an indictment of the 1.6/DCT than ICE powertrains, all else equal.

Edited January 24, 2020 by ocnblu

[ccap41]

I'm on a bus every work day, 30 miles each way for work. 

I agree it would be absolutely wonderful if they were whisper quiet but I've never had an issue with the smell. I've never noticed them smelling bad or smelling of anything. 

 

[ykX]

Just wanted to do a simple calculation of cost per mile based on my location EV vs ICE.

Correct me if I am wrong.  The numbers are based were I live, I don't care what prices are in California or Washington.

From my electric bill the electricity charge is about $0.13kWh with ALL the fees and charges (about $0.09 without).  Today gas price in nearby Costco is $2.45 for regular.

EV Kona rated for 26/31 kWh (city/highway) per 100 miles.  For easier calculation lets take average of 28.5 kWh per 100 miles.  So purely on energy/cost calculation it will cost me $3.71 to go 100 miles in EV Kona.

ICE Kona MT used has 30.8mpg average fuel economy.  So to go 100 miles in ICE Kona will take me 3.247 gallons which will cost me $7.96.

Taking average of 12000 miles driving a year EV will cost $445.2 and ICE will cost $955.2.

So just on fuel there is a saving of $510 a year on average.  Of course there is a savings in maintenance, oil changes and brakes, however on a basic car they should not amount to more than $200-250 a year.  Lets take $300.

So to get back the extra investment of at least $10k on the price of the car with $800 savings a year will take at least 11-12 years.

I like EVs and I think they are the future, but the bottom line TODAY they don't make sense financially. 

[ccap41]

I'm not 100% sure but I believe we have the Commercial Service as we have an old building that's zones both commercial and residential and we have a 3-phase service. I'll have to check out our bill as we've only been in it for a just over a month. But, here are my rates. 

 

[A Horse With No Name]

On 1/23/2020 at 2:16 PM, ykX said:

I know they liked the EV over ICE Kona, however if you look at the price difference (and they choose both vehicles with similar equipment) it is still doesn't make sense financially:

$29k for ICE vs $46.6 for EV.   Even  taking into account $7k deduction for EV it is still a staggering difference of almost $11k for basically the same vehicle.  I like EVs but right now it still doesn't make sense financially.

Give the tech time to drop in cost. It becomes more viable every year. This is one valuable step on the way. 

On 1/24/2020 at 9:34 AM, ykX said:

Just wanted to do a simple calculation of cost per mile based on my location EV vs ICE.

Correct me if I am wrong.  The numbers are based were I live, I don't care what prices are in California or Washington.

From my electric bill the electricity charge is about $0.13kWh with ALL the fees and charges (about $0.09 without).  Today gas price in nearby Costco is $2.45 for regular.

EV Kona rated for 26/31 kWh (city/highway) per 100 miles.  For easier calculation lets take average of 28.5 kWh per 100 miles.  So purely on energy/cost calculation it will cost me $3.71 to go 100 miles in EV Kona.

ICE Kona MT used has 30.8mpg average fuel economy.  So to go 100 miles in ICE Kona will take me 3.247 gallons which will cost me $7.96.

Taking average of 12000 miles driving a year EV will cost $445.2 and ICE will cost $955.2.

So just on fuel there is a saving of $510 a year on average.  Of course there is a savings in maintenance, oil changes and brakes, however on a basic car they should not amount to more than $200-250 a year.  Lets take $300.

So to get back the extra investment of at least $10k on the price of the car with $800 savings a year will take at least 11-12 years.

I like EVs and I think they are the future, but the bottom line TODAY they don't make sense financially. 

I think they will make sense for commercial fleet vehicles first. Think post office delviery vehicles, Amazon delivery vehicles, UPS vehicles, service vans for electrical contractors, and the like. 

An electric Ford Transit connect might be perfect for a company that delivers flowers or pharmaceuticals or the like. 

On 1/24/2020 at 12:55 PM, ccap41 said:

I'm not 100% sure but I believe we have the Commercial Service as we have an old building that's zones both commercial and residential and we have a 3-phase service. I'll have to check out our bill as we've only been in it for a just over a month. But, here are my rates. 

 

Hence why electric vehicles will make more sense for light commercial use. 

[A Horse With No Name]

I think the real question is...

 

Not can we build electric vehicles, but can we build electric vehicles with Soul. My friends wife ahs a Kona Hybrid, they are turning it in off lease and Keeping their Jeep. Not because the Hybrid lacks soul because it is a Hybrid....the gasser Kona lacks a certain amount of Soul also. 

This is why I am kind of bullish on Rivian. I really like their truck. 

[Robert Hall]

1 hour ago, A Horse With No Name said:

I think the real question is... 

Not can we build electric vehicles, but can we build electric vehicles with Soul.  

Kia does have an EV Soul...not yet in the US, though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kia_Soul_EV

[A Horse With No Name]

29 minutes ago, Robert Hall said:

Kia does have an EV Soul...not yet in the US, though.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kia_Soul_EV

The Soul is the most Soulful of their products perhaps, but all of the hyundai and Kia products are less Soulful than most of the Jeep products. 

[ocnblu]

No such thing as a Kona Hybrid.  And the Kia Soul EV was sold here, Kia gave up on it.

[ocnblu]

Silly.  What could possibly warrant a red arrow on that post?  It is 100% factual.

[ocnblu]

Obsession For Men

[oldshurst442]

Yeah...me too!

[A Horse With No Name]

On 11/27/2020 at 9:40 PM, ocnblu said:

No such thing as a Kona Hybrid.  And the Kia Soul EV was sold here, Kia gave up on it.

In all seriousness that is the problem a lot of legacy car makers have. EVs seem better as EVs from the ground up. Converted gassers as production vehicles don't seem to work as well.

Mini didn't sell a lot of EV Cooper's nor was the E Golf a particularly good car.

[oldshurst442]

11 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

In all seriousness that is the problem a lot of legacy car makers have. EVs seem better as EVs from the ground up. Converted gassers as production vehicles don't seem to work as well.

Mini didn't sell a lot of EV Cooper's nor was the E Golf a particularly good car.

This is a more accurate reality.

The resident asshole @ocnblu wants us to believe that EVs are not viable. Like at all...  Just because HE hates EVs.  

Lets discuss EVS with TRUTH. NOT HALF-TRUTHES!  

im SICK AND PHOQUING tired of walking on eggshells on what I can or cannot post in this PHOIQUING cheers at phoquing gears forums without getting a laughy emogi vote from that asshole, or a negative downvote, or simply he ignoring ANTHING I have to say about anything really.

He wants EVERYONE to toe the line of what HE wants to here.

Ive been accuse of making it personal.

 

The other asshole @ykX said I make it personal

Another phoquing LIAR taking his forum friend's side.  

Never do I take things personal. But Ill draw a line where I feel like my intelligence has been insulted. And Ill call anybody up on it.  

Drama?

You bet!

I apologize to those that have to endure this that dont want to.

But hey!  Dont tell me this!  

Tell @ocnblu  to grow the phoque up and STOP defending his antics! 

I aint the phoquing problem here! 

I get ganged up on. ENOUGH ALREADY! 

 

Edited November 28, 2020 by oldshurst442

[A Horse With No Name]

Wouldn't it be easier to ignore people and talk about cars? Asking for a friend.

[oldshurst442]

26 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

 

Your angry inner dude is showing and it's not a good look. You have good automotive content please bring that instead.

 I want to apologize. But I wont.

Like I said. Im sick and tired of walking on eggshells on what I can or cannot post. 

Im sick and tired of reading abolute BULLSHYTE regarding EVs on here.

I like to share, discuss automobiles. I like to  LEARN about new cars.

I do NOT want my intelligence insulted. Im sick of it!

There is GREAT automobile content here. Many different points of views that I lust and admire in here.

@ocnblu used to be enjoyable.  Now he is just a troll.

Like what the phoque?!

And his trolling, any trolling just triggers me! 

Tell he to stop his shytty antics! 

His shytty friend  @ykX  defends @ocnblu antics by saying shyte like he has a strong passion for not liking EVs...and then proceeds to school me.  Phoque him too.  What are we...in grade school?     I NEVER insult anybody that does NOT insult me first!   

And I know you respect me, and thank-you for that...

But anytime I come back trying to contribute nicely, I get to read the same ole shyte lies he phoquing spews...

I could deal with the childish remarks on him not liking a Toyota Hilux, him trolling me about it.  

But Im really sick and tired of reading his bullshyte lies regarding actual cars news...

And no!

Why should I ignore ANY poster???!!!

He is a grown ass man.   Why dont he behave like one? 

Edited November 28, 2020 by oldshurst442

[ocnblu]

OH.MY.GOD.  Anyway...

I went back and read my previous pertinent comments in this thread (it's an oldie) and I still hold the same opinion.  That is all, enjoy your wknd.

Edited November 28, 2020 by ocnblu

[A Horse With No Name]

2 hours ago, ocnblu said:

OH.MY.GOD.  Anyway...

I went back and read my previous pertinent comments in this thread (it's an oldie) and I still hold the same opinion.  That is all, enjoy your wknd.

No one is asking for you to change your opinion.

Enjoy your weekend.

[David]

Reality sucks for some and will be hard for those that hate change. Hate is a strong word but is something that we all have to work on as we live in a Multi-Cultural world and really need to learn to accept the differences that drive us.

We all cannot expect everyone to change to be like us otherwise the world would be boring, but we can accept to agree to disagree.

I do not expect Bill to ever like the EVs that are coming, but I also would not expect him to give up loving ICE auto's. I hope he can eventually come to accept them being part of the auto industry.

I hope we all can at least talk about the pro's and con's of EV, BEV, Hybrids, etc. and acknowledge all auto's have their place in society, some more than others.

Wishing you all a great weekend.

[balthazar]

^ I can agree with that for the most part.

[A Horse With No Name]

On 11/28/2020 at 11:02 AM, David said:

Reality sucks for some and will be hard for those that hate change. Hate is a strong word but is something that we all have to work on as we live in a Multi-Cultural world and really need to learn to accept the differences that drive us.

We all cannot expect everyone to change to be like us otherwise the world would be boring, but we can accept to agree to disagree.

I do not expect Bill to ever like the EVs that are coming, but I also would not expect him to give up loving ICE auto's. I hope he can eventually come to accept them being part of the auto industry.

I hope we all can at least talk about the pro's and con's of EV, BEV, Hybrids, etc. and acknowledge all auto's have their place in society, some more than others.

Wishing you all a great weekend.

Or at the very least talk freely and openly about ICE automobiles. The Ford Raptor is white hot, some dealers are asking 2x invoice for some new ones because they are out of production until fall 2021. 

Next Raptor may well ahve a version of the new bog block pushrod V8 that comes in teh f250 and F350....wouldn't THAT be a hoot. 

Ford may yet bring the Ranger Raptor here. 

C8 Corvette is white Hot. 

Lots going on with Euro cars. 

New Supra is interesting. 

Lots of interesting stuff in motorsports. 

Hell, I am even starting to fall in lvoe with the current generaiton of GM fullsize trucks. Lots of good potential content there. 

Edited November 30, 2020 by A Horse With No Name
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