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I think I’ve pointed out multiple times different solutions for different lifestyles.

^ I feel like you guys aren't reading my posts. There are people living VASTLY different life styles than you are. Even if you can't relate, you get that, don't you??

I’m under 50 (just barely lol) and I knew about them. Also, younger folks have parents were around for that And word of mouth is a powerful thing. It is what doomed Fiat from the start.

Let me make this simple for you. Peugeot will die a cruel death just like Fiat if they try to peddle that mess here because like Fiat, most folks in the U.S. have not forgotten about the Peugeot dumpster fires of the 70s and the 80s. That is a stain that does not go away. Any attempt to put a Dodge or Chrysler skin on Peugeot guts will be the 100% death of Dodge and Chrysler, above all other scenarios. Regarding stale product, FCA had ample opportunities to invest in new products for Dodge and Chrysler and didn’t because they insisted on peddling their own Fiat and Alfa garbage to US buyers. How’d that work for them btw? Oh and please stop with the sales comparisons and such because all of that “logic” can easily be applied to Mercedes as well but shhhhhhh, we don’t talk about Benz like that do we?

Same first name, different empty suit...worked under Ghosn previously...they should have an American that understands the NA market in charge of the NA brands, not some empty suit w/ a Renault/Nissan past.

Again.... (and again... and again.... and again...) This is not the usage pattern for EVs. It may be the way new EV owners are doing it, but it's not the way it is done once you know what you're doing. First, and most importantly, 30 minutes gets you 200 miles in a Tesla, 30 minutes gets you 90 miles of range in a 2017 Bolt (from empty) and a 2020 will get you 100 miles, a Leaf on DC will fill up completely in 30 minutes. All of the above cars can get from 0% to 100% in about an hour on fast charging.... 63 minutes for the Bolt if you want to get technical. So no, not hours and hours. Furthermore, the Bolt, Tesla, and other 250+ range EVs have enough range to get 80% of non-commercial drivers through their week on a single charge. Going on a normal weekly grocery run (not just eggs, cheese, milk, bread) can easily blow an hour of time. Now this next part I know you understand, so what I don't understand is why you keep parroting the false narrative of how EV charging works. An EV driver does not need to be charging to full every time they charge. They only need to charge enough to get them through to the next charger plus some wiggle room for error. I'm at Costco at least twice a week and the normal grocery store at least once a week. It is unusual for me to be out of either place in less than 30 minutes unless I'm going in for one thing. Right there my commuting miles are covered if I charge for 30 minutes each time. But I do not need to get to 100% each time! I just need to add just enough to get me the next few days till I'm at a charger again. At my old job, I was able to charge at work for free... I'd never need to charge at home or at a retail facility. In short, the idea you have of the usage pattern of EV's is way off.... unfortunately, your way of thinking is the same as a lot of peoples' and it will take time to change that mentality. That's why Tesla and GM warranty their batteries.

At some point, not this season but maybe next April or May, I plan to buy the tent attachment for it.

Saw pics of the GW....looks fancy, Escalade sized, needs woodgrain side trim.. https://www.autoweek.com/news/future-cars/a33901878/look-inside-the-new-jeep-grand-wagoneer-concept-vehicle/?source=nl&utm_source=nl_aut&utm_medium=email&date=090320&utm_campaign=nl21400259&utm_term=AAA -- High Minus Dormant and 90 Day Non Openers

.... in the back of the Avalanche.... Full size air mattresses fit perfectly in the bed... ask me how I know.

Exhaust coming out the door..that's...different. Someone went crazy at Pep Boys.

Have a few days off, took a drive...beautiful sunny 75 degree day. Drove down to Tuscarawas County where I'm from and drove some backroads I haven't driven in 30 years or more.. Outside the village of Tuscarawas on a back road, I spotted what appeared to be a 1941 1940 LaSalle moldering in a yard...

If you can't afford an 8-year old Leaf, you can't afford a car. 2013 Ford Focus Electric - $4,868 - 74k miles 2014 Chevrolet Spark Electric - $4,995 - 62k miles and more torque than my Avalanche(!!) There are 189 EVs for under $7000 and under 75,000 miles available on AutoTrader right now.... so maybe we can move past the "EV's aren't affordable" trope. Unless your house is on an electrical panel pre-1990 (and I fully admit that many houses are), the cost to install at charger averages $1200. It costs roughly $1,295 to fuel a Toyota Corolla for 1year/15,000 miles at 2.59 a gallon and 30 mpg average (local average price). Charging at home costs so little per mile compared to fueling with gas, that ICE maintenance more than exceeds that cost.

Have to say that I am excited by the Jeep Grand Wagoneer. Excited to see McIntosh is getting into premium sound systems for auto's. Love their home theater gear. https://www.autoweek.com/news/future-cars/a33901878/look-inside-the-new-jeep-grand-wagoneer-concept-vehicle/?source=nl&utm_source=nl_aut&utm_medium=email&date=090320&utm_campaign=nl21400259&utm_term=AAA -- High Minus Dormant and 90 Day Non Openers

We have a Maverick in our neighborhood, brought out from the Midwest. Guy moved out here for a job with Amazon.

@daves87rs @riviera74 Have to agree that all tradeshows are in danger as online Tech Tradeshows have proven to be very successful and I question if they will survive till 2022. Most tech shows like Dell Technology World was delayed for a Digital online one free to everyone this coming October. https://www.delltechnologiesworldonline.com/2020/portal/newreg.ww Anyone can sign up, I have been building online labs to demo the technology and we will do this again next year. Not until a vaccine and world is more than 50% VACINATED will Dell return employees to the offices. I suspect we will see a down sizing where possible in commercial office space for those companies that have figured out how to work from home with solid productivity. The future, I believe will be online tradeshows and in the case of the auto industry digital reveals with select areas having hands on touch and feel as well as what Daves87rs stated about digital kiosks.

Well, to be realistic, maybe buyers over 50...I doubt if many younger buyers know French cars were once sold in the US.

Yes, IIRC the book and movie was called 'Midnight in the Garden of Evil' I think...good movie w/ Kevin Spacey. When I was driving my sister back from West Palm Beach in January, I did spend a couple hours in St Augustine, Fla---has a neat historic district...would like to visit again. Spent the first night in Daytona Beach (I'd left WPB at about 9:30 pm) and the second night only made it just past Savannah to Yemasseee, SC.

That's great, for you. And likely a majority of folk. But not everyone. Which was my earlier statement. That's great, for you. And likely a majority of folk. But not everyone. There ARE folk who can't even consider a $60 fee to buy groceries. They shop in places like this, which may never have a public vehicle charger, ever :

* can't put this in spotting since it's a "lot" behind the 8 ball * Here I am, walking through Savannah's historical district, minding my business, and a toad decides to cross the road in front of me ... and then turn at the corner ... I might add that it was a "healthy" looking toad.

The sad part is that Olds needed the Intrigue back in 1995, along with the first-gen Aurora.

I think the name is terrible but the end result seems quite promising.

Seeing the name LaSalle brings one thing to mind. Cadillac's significant new downsized car of the mid-'70s was displayed in sketches and where write-ups indicated it might be released as the Cadillac LaSalle. I guess the down to the wire marketing research decided on Seville. Oldsmobile's successful (but sadly too late) Intrigue sports sedan was moving through development as the Antares, though that name was not assigned to the final production vehicle.

Personally, I think that Stellantis should (at least for a while) keep the 300/Charger/Challenger triplets. As for CUVs and minivans, they can do what they like with the brands that exist. Stellantis could easily rebagde SOME of their CUVs and FWD cars as Chryslers with probably little or no negative feedback. Bring them as Cintroens: automatic fail. Nobody here misses Renault since they left in 1988. Tavares has a lot of work ahead of him in order to succeed here in the most competitive automotive marketplace on Earth. NO one here will miss FIAT because their cars are terrible.

I'll nutshell my interjection here : the "BAN". The term needs to be defined, and of course it's going to vary widely depending on the source. This was from a Feb '20 article : As stated above [RED ARROW], I can live with that (bill failed to get voted on, BTW). There's a semblance of attrition allowed to work naturally... so that 10s and 10s of millions of IC vehicles will still be running & driving for decades & decades & decades to come. That's as it should be, and there the lowest income folk don't get stepped on right away. Also- it allows the classic car hobbyist to continue to preserve that history/hobby. However, the focus then swings to the vast majority of the market- the middle. 2030 is only 9 years from now. There had better be a CRAP TON of truely median-priced choices out there, instead of Bollingers & Rivians and Daimler EQs (if they ever get into production) and Hummer EVs, cause the vast bulk of EVs available NOW and announced for the NEAR FUTURE are all hella expensive... other than a few.

I, too, could not sit through an episode of "The Sopranos." I have an acquaintance who can probably recite all the lines from the three Godfathers, Goodfellas, etc. owing to how many times he has watched these shows and it can be irritating. Working class (no judgment here) Italian-Americans who think this is cool stuff need a paradigm shift something fierce. @David Your observation is very West Coast! Probably more Pac NW. You probably didn't know that in the early 1920s or so, Seattle's Rainier Valley section was nicknamed Garlic Gulch, probably when Seattle was a rougher logging town without all the genteel PC-ness of today. You are right. "Goombah" is a bad bastardization of "cumpari." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eh,_Cumpari! Some truncate it to cumpa', but most don't. It means "mate," "friend," or "buddy" but it also rarely used to imply someone's Godfather in Sicilian or someone in the Godfather's extended family who is now a "friend" or a "buddy" by annexation. There is no "g" at the beginning this word. That's a North American thing. It sounds dumb. Another awful Americanization goes like this: Your background is Italian? Yeah, my grandparents came from Italy. Where in Italy did your grandparents come from? I'm tinkin' they were "Nah-boo-lee-dahn." This means Neapolitan. Correct Italian would be Napoletano. (Not quite the same as Janet Napolitano.) Southerners with more guttural pronunciation might say "Napulitan," but in no 'effin way is there either a "b" or a "d" in the pronunciation. But, since Jersey Shore type dudes are fairly idiotic, a bastardization of the term such as "goombah" would suit THEM just fine. * end of rant *

I will put the inner middle schooler in me back in the box in a minute...but nothing better than sex out under the stars. Of course, even the worst sex I ever had was pretty darned awesome. In all seriousness, so happy you found the Avalanche. Loving the Ranger. Happier with it than I was with the Jetta TDI, Miata, Mini Cooper S, Beetle, or any of my other recent rides.

I had a friend in college from Macedonia the country and one from Macedonia, Ohio.. Macedonia, Ohio is nearby, I like the area...

I work with a Macedonian guy who wants a black Mercedees, we always joke about the Macedonian Mafia....

Heh-heh...Henry Hill and the '68 GP. I wonder what the ride of choice for East Coast gangsters is today....seems the Ukranian gangsters around here favor 10-yr old S-class Mercs.

See, Drew, our deal illustrious leader has an Italian gentleman as a life partner. I am sure "Italian tuneup" has an entirely different meaning when Drew and Albert are in private...just sayin...if he can give it liberally to the Avalanche...he can give it liberally to Albert... Backing out of sarcasm and fun mode for a second... What would life be without good friends, good food, good books, movies we life, cars/Trucks we love to drive and bullship about....hmm....would not be so full. Makes me really glad I didn't buy that Tacoma I was looking at before I bought the Ranger. This is enough to make me a domestic buyer for the rest of my life, repuslive... Sadly I sold my Mini Cooper S a few years ago, so no Italian Job for me... More like a black Mercedees, although I think the 68 Grand Prix would be easier to repair and more reliable.

Reality is complex.

Im not saying that. Actually. You are. Making excuses of why things shoudnt change because poor single mom failed at her marriage and has 2 kids to lug around without a father for her children and no means of transportation. Down on her luck? Maybe shytty choices she made in her life... This is just a "what if" scenario you presented us with. You tried to use it to make me cry us to why ICE shoudnt be banned. I turned around THAT scenario to MY favour to discredit that excuse with a REAL anecdotal situation. My grandparents, just as many poor people in Montreal at that time, who had huge families, no jobs, 1933 economic crisis, had to search for jobs, lug around kids while walking to market places to buy the little food they could afford, in extremely cold and snowy Montreal weather. Yeah. If those people did it then, then in your story, single moms with 2 kids and jalopy Tesla Model 3s and Chevy Bolts could do the same. And...just to be clear here. I come from a very very poor background.

You would be very right. At this point, both Ford and GM are not planning to put any products in any shows any time soon. I know Ford is looking to have little “interactive” displays for curious folk for some future Ford EVs (Mustang E, F 150 EV) for folks to look, touch and feel around the metro Detroit area. This allows people who are actually invested in it a chance to see them before they head out to the public. Much cheaper to use either their local campus or a cheap outdoor venue to show these off.. The days of the auto show is dead...as are most major shows. About the only major one that might survive when be the electronics show........

Of course, because it's an import brand, any examination of it's sales is irrelevant. Right, smk?

? Do we call this Mad Max Asia? ?

Thoughts to some of this: No small small cars will be sold here in the US. I can tell you that now. Fiat is already dead, we saw that coming anyways... The old guard platform cars are not going anywhere- there are still updates and some new stuff down the pipeline. These 3 still have enough of a following to keep them for a good while. Besides, they are nearly retro cars anyways... ? . Ram of course will be fine. Jeep looks like it too may skip the small/ sub stuff as well. Sounds like the baby Jeep is in danger of being dropped, as Jeep wants to focus on their core products, and sell them all over the world. A few less models actually makes this easier, though they are adding the Jeep Wagoneer..... Alfa is a tough one. I like them, and they are getting kinda a Saab like following (know a few that have one-love it) so they should hang around at least a while to see where things go......

ay oh! Its only illegal if you get caught! Capisce???!!!

Saw this colorized pic on the FB...looks like a '39ish Ford COE with a custom cab..thought @balthazar would get a kick out of it. Neat looking truck.

What special kind of idiot would badge-engineer a euro car as a Dodge and put 425K unit sales at risk?? Reciepe for quick failure. There's no US market for citroens & peugeots, zero. Contaminating an establish brand image with eurotrash unsuited for the brand isn't going to boost sales even REMOTELY; instead- it'll crater them.

Show me a new decently equipped car that starts at $15k. Cheapest Spark in my 50mile radius has MSRP of $19.6k.

The Rav4 by itself sells as much as the whole Dodge brand in the US. There is plenty of market for front drive crossovers. And PSA knows how to make money, they had over an 8% margin last year, most car companies are happy at 5%. Dodge is still around with a stale lineup because the only way for the brand to be profitable is to sell vehicles that the tooling was paid off 5-10 years ago. If they started pumping money into new product they'd be broke, which is why FCA was putting out so little new product recently. Any hopes of Dodge's rear drive future lie on the Georgio platform.

Reality is complex.

I get that people live different life styles, but change is inevitable. People had to deal with this when changing from having barn space for the Horse and Buggy to an automobile. People I am sure that could afford the auto loved not having to feed and clean up after a horse. Same here, once people realize the positive changes with EV's, the ease of charging in a far wider place for energy compared to gas stations, people will change. This is no different than people plugging their cell phone in at night where ever in their house they do it. People adapt and history has shown this. While change might be hard for some or impossible for others, the bulk of society has shown they can change and do.