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What I find sad is that the socio-political climate that was the 1970s (which actually started RIGHT AFTER the end of WW2) culminated to a perfect storm that forced GM and the others Detroit gang to hastily change their product portfolio over night to downsize and FW drive their vehicles. Was it a right choice? Yeah... I think it was. Lets not pretend to NOT understand and acknowledge that the downsizing from GM WAS a success in both the market place AND in terms of the time it took for a behemoth company like GM to do a COMPLETE 180 degrees and perform THAT kinda change in as little as a decade ACROSS their WHOLE product portfolio. In some cases, in one generation of a product cycle, in other cases in just 2. Yeah...some product portfolio was utter shyte. But that was mostly products FROM the 1970s. The 1980s stuff was pretty reliable. And in "context", in the amount of time it took them to engineer WHOLE product lines from the ground up, their ENTIRE car product line, Id say its a miracle that GM did NOT go bankrupt right then and there with overblown engineering costs and budgets with major...MAJOR engineering fails. A creaky cup holder here and a small cost cutting parts bin and badge engineering over there is truly NOT that big of a deal. Again, in context, the Japanese and German cars we got over here were really not that much better built and had the SAME cost cutting measures engineered in THEIR offerings. Sure, some Japanese cars were more reliable than their American car counterparts, but MOST Japanese cars were NOT that reliable either. What I find sadder though, is that America was blind to see how the world had become when time reached the 1970s, because of how good the good times were SINCE the end of WW2 in America, and failed to adjust to what the new reality of the 1970s would bring. The ever increasing in size and weight of our vehicles, the excessive use of chrome on our cars, which I have NO problems with, the huge displacement and horsepower that the engines made, it was only a matter of time that it would all coming crashing down as soon as political power vacuums and new regimes sought revenge for perceived and rightful injustices that America was responsible for, and it would all culminate PERFECTLY in the 1970s to create a storm that America was just not ready for. Our culture and lifestyle that influenced our cars and our car industry itself was NOT ready for it. (Viet Nam never ending, oil embargoes, terrorist bombings in various parts of the world, airplane hijackings, 1972 Olympics, puppet wars, cold war.. etc) So I dont think its fair to say that GM forced and pushed aside their full-sized RWD owners to the side. It was kinda the right move. Obviously, they thought the direction they took was the right one. In hindsight, maybe GM should have NOT put BOTH their legs in the downsized FWD water as they did, but as the saying goes, hindsight is 20/20... America still plays around with global oil prices and ensures that America gets the best prices...its a miracle that we enjoy (well you guys, not us Quebecois) low gasoline prices to this day and THAT is why American folk NOW buy the bigger than the downsized sedans in the form of the taller and slightly larger CUVs and full-sized pick up trucks and their SUV counterparts. But 20 years ago this past Saturday is a reminder of the political power vacuums and new regimes I was talking about that America had to face in the 1970s that continued...well, in 2001.

That one stung more than any other celebrity death for me, for multiple reasons. Even though he died by suicide, it was because of Lewys Body Dementia, which is what killed my dad four years ago. Nevermind the fact that William was and is still my all time favorite comedian.

"Im not a doctor. but Im pretty sure if you die, the cancer also dies at the same exact time. So that to me is not a loss; its a draw." - Norm Macdonald RIP

Exactly my point above but clearly he doesn't see the irony in his statement.

^ GLS is just a copy of the Navigator anyway; a German brand trying to be what they aren’t. ?

You have to spend 200k to get massaging rear seats and semi-autonomous driving? Just buy the better Lincoln at half the price.

Agree on every front and thanks.

My condolences once more. Robin Williams' death made me cry. Because he too, was my favorite comedian. Part of my youth and all that. Yeah, like Chevy Chase and John Candy and countless of other actors and singers and the like. But that was not the reason why I cried. The main reason is because I knew that he was truly a great and genuine person. I knew, we all knew, his jokes came from his heart and all he ever wanted to do was make us laugh. And Ill repeat. He truly was a great human being. Countless of stories about him and his generosity were around a loooong time before his death.

There are quite a lot of differences and I found this online as it's more thorough than I could be so here's this. https://poworks.com/a-comparison-of-nmc-nca-lithium-ion-battery-and-lfp-battery#:~:text=The LFP lithium battery is,the market for varied applications. "Energy density----Upon current technology, the energy density of commercial single cell NMC lithium battery is around 200Wh/kg, and NCA battery may get more than 300Wh/kg soon; while energy density of LFP lithium battery is basically hovering around 100~110Wh/kg, some may get 130~190Wh/kg, but it is very difficult for it to exceed 200Wh/kg. NCA/NMC battery is applied mostly in cars which consume less power and in favor of fast speed and long range. Theoretically, cars using NCA lithium batteries can run farther than those using same number of LFP batteries; and LFP vehicles are preferably chosen to be city buses at present, because the range of them is not long, and they can be charged within a short distance in cities, where a lot of charging piles can be easily built. Space occupation----Choose BYD for buses and Tesla for cars. Benefited from higher energy density, a single NMC/NCA battery cell can provide twice as much space as an LFP battery, which is very important for cars with limited space. So we can see it in the commercial market, Tesla focus on NMC/NCA battery, and BYD produces LFP battery. So there is a saying in China's EV market, "Choose BYD for buses and Tesla for cars". While this year in March 2020, BYD announced their new LFP battery pack saving 50% space of their previous pack, and got positive sales with their Han EV sedan installed with the Blade Battery. At the same time, Tesla unveiled their new model powered by LFP battery from CATL as well. Safety----Most important of all, the reason for choosing LFP battery for city buses is the essential concern of safety. There have been many fire accidents with Tesla cars from consumers since Tesla Model S was brought to market, although direct reason of fire may differ. One reason is that Tesla's battery pack is composed of more than 7,000 units of Panasonic / Tesla NCA lithium battery. If these units or the entire battery pack has an internal short circuit, they may generate open flames even big fire, especially in car crash; thankfully it is improving. While LFP material will much less likely burn encountering a short circuit, and its high temperature resistance is much better than that of NCA/NMC lithium battery. Low-temperature & high-temperature resistance----The lithium iron phosphate (LFP) battery has better performance for its high temperature resistance, while NCA/NMC is better for its low temperature resistance. Let me introduce one example. At a temperature of -20℃, the NMC lithium battery can release 70.14% of its capacity; while the lithium iron phosphate (LFP) battery can only release 54.94%. The discharge voltage plateau of NMC lithium battery is far higher, and it starts earlier than that of the LFP battery at low temperature. Therefore, NMC battery is a better choice for applications at low temperature. Charging efficiency----The charging efficiency of NMC/NCA lithium battery is higher than that of LFP battery. Lithium battery charging adopts current-control and voltage-control method. That is, constant current charging is applied first, when the current and charging efficiency are comparatively high. After the lithium battery reaches certain voltage, the recharger switches to the second stage of constant voltage charging, at this period the current and charging efficiency are low. To measure the charging efficiency of a lithium battery, we use a ratio between the constant-current charging capacity and the total battery capacity, called “the constant-current ratio”. The experimental data on the constant-current ratio shows that there is little difference between NMC/NCA and LFP batteries charging them at a temperature lower than 10℃, but it's quite different at a temperature higher than that. Here is an example, when we charge them at 20℃, the constant-current ratio of NMC lithium battery is 52.75%, which is five times that of the lithium iron phosphate (LFP) battery (10.08 %). Cycle life----The cycle life of lithium iron phosphate (LFP) battery is better than NMC/NCA lithium battery. The theoretical life of NMC lithium battery is 2000 cycles, but its capacity fades to 60% when it runs 1000 cycles; even the best-known Tesla NCA battery can only maintain 70% of its capacity after 3000 cycles, while the lithium iron phosphate (LFP) battery will remain 80% after 3000 cycles. "

For @smk4565 https://www.motortrend.com/features/lincoln-suv-lineup-updates-changes?slide=6 2022 Lincoln Aviator: What We Think In many ways, the bigger the SUV, the better the Lincoln. We currently rank the Aviator as the best vehicle in the three-row luxury segment. The exterior and interior design are both outstanding, with bold, distinctive lines and loads of wood, metal, and leather; it's nearly impossible to discern that the Aviator shares a platform with the underwhelming Ford Explorer. Lincoln's standard twin-turbo V-6 is powerful and plenty quick, too, and those after more power can opt for the Grand Touring plug-in hybrid (though we'd recommend the non-hybrid in this case). https://www.motortrend.com/features/lincoln-suv-lineup-updates-changes?slide=7 2022 Lincoln Navigator: What’s New Lincoln is making a big debut with the 2022 Navigator. The largest and in-chargest Lincoln is the first model to feature Lincoln ActiveGlide, a semi-autonomous system analogous to Ford BlueCruise. Lincoln is also adding second-row massage seats (a segment first), plus new Central Park and Invitation themes for the Navigator Black Label. Front and rear styling have been updated, and the center touchscreen has been enlarged to 13.2 inches. https://www.motortrend.com/features/lincoln-suv-lineup-updates-changes?slide=8 2022 Lincoln Navigator: What We Think There's a reason the Lincoln Navigator sits atop our rankings of full-size luxury SUVs. Yes, the twin-turbo V-6 and 10-speed auto provide effortless acceleration, and, of course, we appreciate that there's plenty of space even in the third row. But it's really all about this interior—an opulently finished art-deco reminder that in some spaces, America still does best. For the 2022 Navigator, we hope the updated suspension improves the ride quality, one of our few complaints about the pre-2022 SUV.

A damn shame.

'65 hardtop. Originally a 326 (that's the badge)- had to get the GTO option to get a 389. Currently has a 400 2bbl in it (prolly low-compression mid-70s variant). Last on the road in 1987, been sleeping in a container since '99. Odometer says 26K, awful clean for 126K but that's more likely than 26K. PS, PB, PWindows, AM-FM, factory A/C, so very nicely optioned. No floor, frame or trunk rot, just basically the lower corners of the front fenders (just like my GP). Guy had the optional Custom Sport 4-spoke 'wood' wheel, '64-only, highly sought after. I asked about buying it separately (3 times) but he said no. I said I would let him know in a day or so on the whole car, maybe I should go there in person with cash and make an offer. One of the wheels sold on eBay this year, in slightly worse shape, for $1425. (One from eBay) :

He doesn’t even have the model right. It’s the GLS580 (there is no longer a 550 model) which starts at just under $100K it does offer rear seat massagers as a $4500 option. Not sure where the MT article got the “segment first” for the Navigator from.

I use mine as a truck every week, I find it hugely practical. Glad I got the shorter cab, longer bed configuration.

The damn near $200K gussied up GLS better have rear seat massagers and autonomous capabilities. Meanwhile, the less than $100K Navigator will have them both. If you don’t see the problem with your statement here, then I don’t know what else to tell you.

LFP cells tend to be cheaper, and contain no nickel or cobalt, but their energy density is lower. Conventional wisdom is that this trade-off makes LFP less suitable for high-end EVs, which need to deliver performance and range, but a good choice for lower-priced models. LFP can charge to 100% faster and do not need the 10 to 20% space for optimum use compared to the NCA batteries. Will be interesting to see where this goes as we see more and more batteries, especially solid state come to market and different designs with some using sulfur and other materials that allow faster charging and higher temps without the cell loss of current NCA batteries.

My sister has a Buick Envision and loves it. At 6'6" tall I can sit in the front, get out and sit in the back with leg room to spare. With a Sister that is over 6' tall, this is a normal test for our family and everyone has been really comfy in it. She loves the Heated and Cooled Seats as well as the heated steering wheel. From Winter to summer, as a in home nurse dealing with open wound care, she has been very comfy in her Envision and is looking to get another one as her 2 year old Envision is approaching 60,000 miles due to on the road job.

Yes; adding features/ amenities & improving what's already present hardly ever increases sales.

^sounds like you have many real world use cases where a full size truck with a 6.5 ft bed is worthwhile. An appropriate tool for certain tasks.

In addition to work, I use my truck a lot other ways. • I make occasional runs to the scrap yard; when I do aluminum I could make do with a much smaller bed, but not with steel runs. • I just finished moving my MIL out of her apartment, her couch was 2" too long for the 6.5' bed (tailgate down, load retainer up, ratchet strap), but that bed still made the move a bunch less trips. • Last month I was scavenging thru the 'Junkland' house, and a LOT of volume came out where that bed volume was key. • 2 months ago I took a lengthy ride to pick up a '71 GTO hood- it would not have fit in a 5.5' bed. • years ago my '04 (also a 6.5' bed) moved about 375 SF of pavers- I think I did it in 2 trips (brought to my house; not for a job). • When I picked up a '63 Nova convertible shell on a trailer, the bed was filled with fenders, bumpers, all sorts of sheet metal. • Firewood galore (I need to stock up). I don't pay for wood, I find it, so almost always it's branches/trunks, not cut-too-length.

As long as the bed can accommodate 1 cubic yard of top soil or whatnot, it would be sufficient for me. That's about my line to draw if the bed is large enough or not.

Reality is complex. On the subject of DIY and hauling stuff from Home Depot, last week one evening I hauled home from Home Depot a 1 gallon potted shrubbery, 2 5 pound bags of potting mix, 1 40 lb bag of top soil, 1 40 lb bag of mulch, 4 blocks, and 16 small fall flowers to plant in a flower bed. The crazy part? Not in my Jeep, but in my sister’s Chevy Trax. Should have taken a photo.

I TOLD EVERYBODY THIS EXACT THING. Many, many times.

The Rivian is a luxury off-roader, nothing about the product or marketing says it's a work truck. It hasn't been advertised as a work truck. That's your imagination running wild if you think it is. One trim of the Ford Lightning seems to be marketed as such, though.

Needs more variants/configurations and cheaper pricing to be a major player.

Gotta say I have been enjoying this read and why I think Rivian is the Truck Maker to beat. Exclusive: We Drive the 2022 Rivian R1T Off-Road Across the Trans-America Trail, Part 1 (motortrend.com) Exclusive: We Drive the 2022 Rivian R1T Off-Road Across the Trans-America Trail, Part 2 (motortrend.com) I doubt any Tesla has done a trip like this. Clearly a proper electric truck can get to just about any place you want to go. Seems Rivian can check off many of the same trails that Jeep has covered and sells auto's tagged with specific names such as Rubicon!

Another interesting read on how BMW and Mercedes wants to keep prices high even when costs drop to increase profits for executives and especially the stock holders. BMW, Daimler Pledge To Keep Prices High As Costs Drop (jalopnik.com)

WOW, Crazy money being spent on 1987 IROC Z/28 with only 2,000 miles. Don't Panic, but Someone Just Paid $56,000 for a 1987 Chevy Camaro (thedrive.com) This one is for @balthazar

Mine too. But I wouldnt necessarily choose RWD over FWD. But comparing FWD to FWD... The Audi 5000 was nothing special as compared to the GM A platform cars. Not the interior. Not the fit and finish. Reliabilty? The GM cars were actually rock solid. Even when powered by the Iron Duke. Not so much for the Audi 5000. The 2.8V6 models were even faster than the Audi... But when we are talking about appliance vehicles...whether FWD or RWD. There is no much difference other than RWD versus FWD. EVEN in the US, an American spec E30 325 is still an econobox because in EUROPE its an econobox no different than what we see here in the US... This 4 door Pontiac Lemans meant for average American hauling their families Appliance... is not this version of it let alone this one So was the Audi 5000 tho...

^ Or you could go with Pontiac & get AWD.

The above quote I pulled suggests otherwise. You also, again, have to consider context. For all of their flaws, they were built with a purpose, which was mostly performance, while companies like Cadillac and Lincoln seemed to have no purpose at that time. It was a sad time for both companies.

From the September 2019 issue of Car and Driver. Problem is...in the 1980s, Car and Driver and everyone else ONLY crapped on American cars. NOT on the E30... Because it wasnt crapped on. The E30 in the US was ALWAYS revered. Just pick up any mag that compares a Cimarron to an E30. The Cimarron was NOT the ideal car for Cadillac. But taken one on one forgetting that the Cimarron was also a Chevrolet, which wasnt that bad of a car in realty, the Cimarron comoared to the E30 was on PAR with the E30. What? RWD versus FWD? With an E30 that had aprox the same HP? They also forgetting to mention that the E30 was SHYTTIER than the Cavalier in Europe? My dad owned a 1986 Chevrolet Celebrity. I learned to drive in that car... @balthazar showed me where the Celebrity was quicker and faster than a 1986 Audi 5000. I too, was under the impression that the Celebrity was a dog as compared to the German competition. Yeah...a Celebrity being competition, if you could call it that to an Audi 5000. And that is thanx to American automotive journalism where my perceptions were corrupted by that drivel...

That issue is not unique to just journalists. That has been proven in spades here.

@surreal1272 To clarify then: @Robert Hall said that Road&Track catered to a demographic that preferred small, road hugging European cars over large, American cars. I get that. I really do. There is a quality of ride and sportiness to being small and nimble to which American GIs got experience over in Europe during the war and craved that coming back home after the war. This is where my pic of a Hot Rod Ford comes in as this is what these GIs did to replicate what they saw in Europe. And then the muscle car era came upon us when these Hot Rods evolved into what the Detroit 3 noticed what was happening on the strip and street etc... And you cant deny that fact... The list is a very accurate way of explaining to why cars after the war were. Small European cars were always a thing. Big large American cars were always a thing too. Large European cars also existed before the war. After the war, well...read the list... But...in CONTEXT: Balthy ALSO described this "sporty phenomenon" in another point of view that some of us FAIL to recognize or even ACKNOWLEDGE... So there is that... But...Im not the one to diss different car cultures. THIS is about automotive journalism. And I realize that! Ill agree with you with your statement here! I have issues with the hypocritical automotive journalism along with the hypocritical opinions of certain anti-American car sentiment car folk that I know personally in my real life.

LOL (sarcastically) So...Road&Track were smitten by underpowered European econoboxes while the rest of America prefered these from the early 1950s to the mid 1950s and eventually to these Like I said....the OVERWHELMINGLY demographic of what cars were enthused by Americans was these: It was a VERY tiny subset of Americans that preferred British roadsters. Yes...Hot Rods and the Chevrolet Corvette arose from that subset. But QUICKLY became what I posted above... Why? But read it ANYWAY 1. In Europe, after WW2, infrastructure had to be rebuilt. Gasoline and materials had to be rationed for the rebuilding of the destroyed cities. Roads. Buildings. Bridges. etc. 2. Although there was plenty of jobs in construction, Europe's economy stank more or less, give or take, from 1945-1985. Some countries LONGER than that. 3. European countries are old. The roads, even if they were destroyed and had to be built up again, with the buildings being raised up again, the blueprints were already there for thousands of years. The countries, cities, towns and villages were grown with bi-pedal humans and donkeys and horse and buggy. Plus, many European cities and towns and villages are on MOUNTAIN SIDES. Tight little twisting roads where a small miscalculation in driving perception equals death. 4. In this same time frame, the US experienced a MASSIVE economic boost. 5. Although some cities were also built on the same premise of bi-pedal humans and horse and buggy, that would be the founding and settled parts of these cities. The cities GREW in this time frame but grew with the AUTOMOBILE in mind. The cities and towns for the MOST part are built on nice, huge, LONG and STRAIGHT roadways. 6. The US now experienced a new age. A continuation of the industrial age, but with the automobile as the prime source of transportation. 7. Why American cars were big and European cars were small. Why American cars were V8 powered and European cars were and STILL are displacement challenged and why American cars were cushy while European cars HAD to handle seem like a no-brainer to me. 8. Its THOSE reasons why a certain car culture arose in the US. 9. We all like to believe there was a car culture in Europe after WW2, but there really wasnt. 10. European car manufacturing FOR Europe was geared towards small, economical shyteboxes. 11. European car manufacturing for America were those "great" handling sporty cars... 10. So why did American automotive journalism NOT knock them for being UNDERpowered since American car tastes were, well, street light to street light racing... 11. Why didnt American automotive journalism NOT knock European cars for being so freaking small, uncomfortable and useless for LONG road trips? 12. Lets NOT forget we still hold THAT as a top priority as there is a quite a large subset of American citizens TODAY bitching about electric car range anxiety for the aforementioned and famous American road trip. 13. Although American cars DID become shytty with their cars. Crap interiors. Less reliable. In that SAME time frame, European cars were NO BETTER. Actually, they were WORSE.

I won’t lie. I would have been all over a 2nd gen Magnum but sadly, we live in America where the word “wagon” is apparently a naughty word.

They sure did and it almost turned me away from buying my Magnum. One test drive changed my mind though. You take the really good with the horrible Daimler cheapness bad.

Buddy stopped by with his ‘21 TrailBoss :

More old vehicle recycling :

And again @balthazar, don’t conflate my argument or feel like I’m dogging your truck. That not even close to the case. However, I am also not blind and while I have said that I would take the GM over the other two, the interior would not even fall under the top ten reasons for doing so. I owned a Dodge Magnum for eight years for the same reasons. The interior design and quality were not the reasons for it. It’s that simple.

Yes you are right that Limited is above the Big Horn, but then the XR2 and Ford Platinum are competing against the Big Horn and then Ford also has the top trim which is limited, but the second and 3rd pics are both Fords. I showed the Platinum and Limited as other than the seats on the Fords, the dash really is not any different between the two trims and I honestly think the XR2 dash from Chevrolet is as nice but IMHO nicer than the Ford Dash or the Ram. I think it will be very competitive. I do see the confusion I caused by calling the Big Horn top of the line when for that trim the top of the line starts with Cloth and then later in the configurator you can option in Leather which is interesting. Sorry for the confusion.

And that probably won't move the sales needle, if anything I think Navigator sales will drop with the Grand Wagoneer out there now. The Maybach GLS already has massage rear seats and level 2 semi-autonomous driving, so Lincoln has nothing new there, just what is expected in that segment.