Leaderboard

First snow of the season last night... lots of leaves on the ground.

You are literally giving them a pass right now. While what Rivian did was crappy, that is a completely different issue because they were already selling the vehicles at the original pricing. They didn't make that price hike before deliveries. That was about 6 months after it was being delivered. We all know what "around" means. It's a relative word that could mean all sorts of different things to all sorts of different people. They knew this. They knew exactly this. That's why I think it's crappy of them. Also, I'm not annoyed that it isn't 30k. I'm annoyed because *to me* 35k is less "around" than it ought to be. "Around" feels more like +/- 10% ($3,000, in this case).

Fair point about CEO compensation.

Yet it could have been $22K after the rebate. Which one sounds more enticing to the customer before pulling the rug out from underneath them? $27K or $22K, especially after almost two years of “it’s going to start under $30K” crowing by GMs fans like yourself (there are repeated posts by you making this claim over that time)? See if your word game applies here. Don’t “agree to disagree”. Actually make a valid point supporting GMs misleading claim of pricing on a vehicle that will not even be the first one out the gate? Explain how it makes any difference (as far as the wording) when the first models coming up for this “around $30K” are both far north of that price by “around” $18K?

Not when it comes to the same expectations from prospective customers expecting a closer to $30K EV instead of a $35K EV that won’t even be out first. In a battle to gain a certain amount of good PR and trust, GM ended up doing the same thing as Tesla. Whether someone put down money on it is irrelevant because it’s the same negative PR result. That’s what you are not getting while continuing use SMK like bar moving defense of GM. “Agree to disagree”. That’s on you since you’re the one blindly defending the practice while I called out both companies for it without the excuses.

You literally did just that above, hence me quoting you on it. Like I said before, the word semantics matter not one bit to prospective customers who were told one thing only to be misled or lied to over. Around or at, it’s the same offense, end of discussion.

Absolutely no difference except where people want word semantics to be involved. Skip the fact that, once again, the cheaper model is “down the road”. Ccap is right. That is deceptive pricing and using the word “around” means less when we are talking about being closer to 30K and not 35K. Nice little 15% gap there. It was BS when Tesla did it and its BS here.

That’s why I go by the facts at hand and not by what someone “sees” and I made that distinction very clear here. And given his past criticism of Tesla and their pricing games, you’d think he would see the issue here but yet here he is saying is he not “blindly defending GM” while saying the above. The product is irrelevant when the product won’t even be released first and instead we get two models that start at $13K higher than the new higher price for the yet to be actually released $35K model. Until the actual product hits, the known price is what we have to analyze here and that’s it. He can make up any excuse about my intent or anything else for that matter but it changes literally nothing that was said here and I stand by it 100%.

“Hung up”. Yeah. That’s what it is. Not because they keep sliding the price scale upward and then don’t even release the said cheaper model first so by the time it actually comes out, it may be even higher because of “unforeseen circumstances” like inflation and shortages over the last three years lol. Whether it’s Tesla, GM, Rivian, or Ford using “at” or “around”, it’s a BS tactic and that is what you clearly have not gotten here while making up excuses with word semantics and just being GM.

While giving him a pass on this in the past, I believe that was made in error. I mean, based on these very basic stats between the Bolt and CX-9, it’s possible…. …that he is not telling the whole truth here lol. The CX-9 is larger in literally every regard and no amount of “packaging” changes those facts. But hey, maybe my skinnier 6’5” cousin was just sitting in that Bolt wrong recently lol. My guess is he was lacking K-Y.

Don’t bother explaining yourself to the irony challenged. It’s why I’ve said squat to him. A troll telling others they are trolling is still…a troll, for example.

Yeah, and it's kind of bullsht. They knew 100% what they were doing and I hate that crap. Well, if their Ultium launch thus far is any indication, the product isn't worthy of a 30k tag either, let alone the 100k+ they've gotten for the Hummers.

There was zero other reason to point out your superiority in that comment. So, yes. I did know that. That doesn't matter. They have other trims specifically FOR that. Well, they used to. Now they just charge more for the basic version, too. I don't care about that though and that wasn't even what this was about. It was the bait by GM by throwing out the phrase "AROUND $30,000". You and your favorite claim. You're as bad as FoxNews or CNN with throwing out buzzwords. You know to troll, one has to have intent to troll. I didn't make GM make any claim. I didn't make them make any price changes. I don't think calling them out for their intentional vagueness in any way is trolling. I don't understand how one could not see his hypocrisy when it comes to GM. He's called a CX-9 cramped but a Bolt as roomy?!? I mean, seriously, do you not see that?

You think that was a me tryna get you on a gotcha moment? lol nah. that was me explaining that some of us dont admit when we are wrong. May or may NOT include you. But. Seems strange to me that NONE youse saw that the ev range IMPROVED. Seems even stranger that ya’ll jumped on @David but failed to realize the marketing dilemna that GM may or may NOT have concerning 2 EVs in that 30 thousand threshold. ONLY @smk4565 SAW it coming but here you are, virtue signaling on David, me trying to prop up SMK about a shyttty stanced opinion you and Grouchy have about a misdirected price hike drama oriented posts. Hence me calling you and grouchy on trolling. Am I trolling? Damn right I am!!! Grouchy went all phoquey on me for calling him out on his hypocrital Toyota stance. Irony of him trying to call out David for hypocrisy… Enjoy the first day of November. Love from a Montreal Greek boy who may or may NOT think he is French and living rent free in Grouchy’s head in Canada somewheres…

I absolutely do and literally yesterday I pointed out I was wrong on dates. Need me to tag you or do you wanna feel nice and warm with what you feel is a "gotcha moment"?

Perfect for another 5k increase!

Grouchy grouch (no name dropping, right?) got one thing right... UNTIL GM states CLEARLY otherwise, ALL else is just speculation. The advert I posted above SUGGESTS that the base is to start at 35K, but BECAUSE no trim is mentioned, one could assume that the base model will have a range of 319 miles. But its ambiguous. Shytty marketing execs have a way to change things up. But at worst, 15% jump in price ALSO means a 15% jump in range AT a MINIMUM over what was first told to us. But at best...250 mile range now is 319 miles. TESLA has promised at 30 000 dollar EV but has YET to offer ANYTHING remotely to that. Tesla discounts the Model 3 and Y but STILL the MSRPs of those dont touch the 30 000 dollar threshold even if it were something stupid like $39 995. They offer something like that, for about 24 hours and sporadically in that 24 hours and domne that maybe twice in the Model 3's 6 year existence. And supposedly, Tesla makes mucho profit on the Model 3 so one would think that Tesla could afford a small hit on offering a 35 thousand Model 3 or Y to upset the EV apple cart even further. But nope. GM promised us that too. BUT...They ALWAYS had the Bolt. The BOLT is coming back. AND...its not as IF the Equinox at AROUND 30K is NIXED. Just got a slight bump in price WITH something EXTRA and the MSRP is still in the 30 thousands. With the PROMISE of a SECOND 30 thousand EV in GM's line-up. PERSPECTIVE. But somehow Im thinking grouchy grouch's (no name dropping allowed) viewpoint is less about GM's decision and moreso about your stance on things. But your stance is justified as compared to what you think about Tesla's business practices-es.

ALL sites that Ive read...and Ive read plenty...all hypothesize that the 35 thousand base model has a range of 319 miles. Suggesting a bump of 69 miles over the previous version. BECAUSE The way THIS latest advert is laid out...it states: 319 mile range starting around $34 995. But let us speculate shyte just to have a fake "gotcha" moment on some shytty stance of whatever you wanna fight over. Not realizing the marketing dilemna of having a smaller Bolt EV that was nixed then revived that used to be in the 30 000 dollar range that the Equinox EV was to reside in but will return and what happens in the line-up when it returns so the Equinox EV gets a 15% price jump but ALSO gets a a similar percentage, if not more, bump in battery and range to offset price jump. Forgetting that another EV is ALSO supposed to be introduced BELOW the Equinox that was initially nixed but revived. NOT quite a Tesla bait and switch... Ill repeat... You sure you are not Greek? Because you got the drama (queen) part of being Greek down pat.

To be fair about the 5 thousand bump in price, Chevrolet added a larger battery to the Equinox EV that NOW, the base Equinox EV has a 19 mile range bump on the previous 30 thousand version. PROBABLY to leave distance in the Bolt in price and in range. UNLIKE Tesla... I am not surprised about this news. I was wondering where the Bolt 2.0 was going to fit it with the 30 000 price threshold. I dont particularly like it the fact the this happened. But Im not up in arms about it either and Im certainly not comparing this shytty move with Tesla's shytty move as GM's move aint really that shytty as GM will PROBABLY will offer a 30 000 dollar EV in the Bolt 2.0 while ALSO offering a 35 thousand dollar Equinox with a BUMP in electric range as a peace offering for the yellers and a REAL reason to bump up the price. Distance the Equinox from the Bolt... Tesla is still promising a 30 000 dollar or lower vehicle. Still hasnt delivered it. Not quite the same shyttiness. The Model 3's standard range is 272 miles. The long range is 333 miles. (car and driver numbers) The Model Y's standard range is 303 while the longe range is 330. (car and driver numbers) The Equinox EV range is claimed to be standard 319 miles (up from 300) (car and driver numbers). I cant find range numbers for the more expensive versions. Chevrolet's range numbers, if accurate, are just about on the upper echelon of all others in its class (Mach E, KIA EV6, VW ID4...) and STILL comes out cheaper than EVERYONE ELSE... And...there is STILL a model that MIGHT come in CHEAPER... So yeah, we could all pretend to be peeved off at this and say this or that about it, compare it to Tesla's bait and switch but STILL waiting to see if Tesla will add a 30 000 dollar to their line-up. (rolls eyes with the the drama) You sure none of youse are Greek? Because the drama youse uprise ssure looks Greek to me.

Racing has gotten much safer. None of these guys would have been killed under current racing safety policies/rules. No real issue with the products, but car for car would buy a Mach E before a Tesla 3. You are a bad influence on me!

Hahaha well Musk as a person is a completely different issue and I can understand not liking the man. I was speaking strictly of the product(s).

My ideal would be hiking in Patagonia, never returning to Ohio. I love Ohio, but would prefer to have a life of exploring new things. Modern cars are more complex. Anything modern, especially if it is European, is bound to be a PITA. Breaks my heart,. I despise Musk. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-10-31/tesla-tsla-erases-145-billion-in-valuation-as-demand-woes-intensify?srnd=premium?utm_medium=social&utm_source=bluesky&utm_content=business&leadSource=reddit_wall Workers would be further underpaid, product quality would still largely have issues. Depends on who is giving the pass.

No need to wonder. The big 3 would continue to not pay their workers enough while producing a subpar (at times) product. Sorry but if CEOs like Barra can collect $29 million last year (alone) to basically be a mouthpiece, then they can afford to pay their workers an actual living wage. Not saying the UAW is perfect because I have called them out many times in the past but to act like these companies would somehow be better without unions is ignoring the reasons why they exist in the first place.

Here's another one of those handy lists I thought of sharing that has to do with renting cars. Assume you've left the rental counter or checked in some other way and now you're heading to your car. The 5 most important things to do, in my opinion: 1. Inspect the car, take photos of it are back up, bring any preexisting things to the attention of the rental agency, and see if there is anything that won't work for you. They once gave me a Malibu Maxx (no prize) where the rear over cover was missing, and I had to buy cardboard at Home Depot to toss around to cover my things. I've rarely had to give a rental car back, but I have done it a few times. Take at least 10 photos: 4 of each side of the car, 4 of each angled view, 1 of the glass, and 1 that pans the interior; if it has expensive alloy wheels, take photos of those that show their position relative to the car (which side, front or rear) 2. Make sure the lights are set to "auto." They're sometimes not set this way by the last driver and you might find yourself driving without lights at dusk until you figure it out. 3. See how many keys you have been given. In some places, they will give you one. In others, they will give you two. Take a photo of them on the hood or in your hand to corroborate that. 4. Adjust your seating position and that of mirrors to what works for you. 5. Then, set up your electronic devices and get an idea of the infotainment and climate control panels. Reset the trip odometer(s) if this matters to you or if they charge for miles. - - - - - Here's an additional 5: 6. Check the stalks, since each brand seems to invert these and the wipers and other functions might be on the side you're not accustomed to. They often invert cruise control and audio/info functions on steering wheel mounted controls, too. 7. Tap the horn as you're driving out, away from the rental aisle, to see how hard you have to press on the pad and what it sounds like. 8. Note what side the fuel goes in and how to release the latch. 9. Figure out where you're going to put things, both in the cabin and in the trunk for security and efficiency. Look for concealed cubby holes and areas where you can put small things (such as hotel magnetic keys, coins, etc.) and keep them out of view. 10. Throw a pen and a small writing pad into the console or, if no console, the glove box.

Remember ccap. Some companies get a pass on lying to their customers while others don’t and all because of the badge on the hood.

Yes depending on the configuration of the R1T launch edition. According to the web this is what was stated at that time: The base model of the R1T pickup increased from $67,500 to just under $79,000, while the R1S base model had a similar jump, from $70,000 to $84,000. The new prices are effective for new customers, but early reservation holders will avoid the price hike. So the price jump was even more for those that had the truck or SUV configured up with the max battery pack and fully loaded options. Crazy

Oh boy, what a blunder that situation was for about 48 hours, until they reneged on that. What an idiotic decision to try and force previous reservation holders into the new price. If I'm not wrong, the price jump was something crazy like 15-20k, too, right?

Sorry, I am wrong here but you're off by about as much as I'm off by. It was Sept 8th, 2022. NOT 2023(duh - I should have known this). It was more like 14 months ago. Hopefully people cancel their orders here as well. Fck OEMs with this crap. I don't care what the brand is, it's crappy to do this. Whoever throws this price estimate out is a professional and this was their specialty. It wasn't just some guy who threw a number out there. There were MANY calculations figured out before and they knew damn well they couldn't hit $30,000. The same way Tesla threw out $35,000, that happened for a couple months. They did it for the headline.

This is to be expected and not bad when you consider the inflation we have gone through since 2019. NO ONE and I mean NO ONE could have predicted the idiot response our government did with Covid as well as the rest of the world and how the shortages would have affected both long-term and short-term prices. When you consider what everyone is asking for, we will never see autos that are priced below 20K ever again as a new auto unless you're in a third world area where safety devices are not required, and they still make the auto pretty much manual everything and even then, that is becoming a thing of the past. It is the electronics that have made thing more expensive and consumer demand for them. While I hate unions with a passion due to my own experience with them and the failure they have done to the workers due to corruption in the 70's and 80's and it is still there now, I cannot deny the workers getting a fair piece of the pie from the corporations. As such, cost of living, cost of manufacturing, cost of employment, etc. etc. etc. is all adding up to higher prices for autos. Yes, we can all be upset if we only look at things through a stagnation point of view, but the reality is it is up to each of us to grow our skill set and our worth by shopping ourselves around to find those companies that value our self-worth and pay us what we are worth. This allows us to afford buying what we want. This is why I do not see a $5K price increase as that bad for something that a company just starting to setup manufacturing of said product had to increase to cover costs of production. This was all estimates of what they said they could produce it for at the start and now with contracts in hand, manufacturing set up, the actual prices are now firmed up. This is CHEAP compared to what Tesla Promised and then actually delivered. Remember the Tesla 3 was promised to be a $35K car in 2016, actual starting prices were $47,240 for the long range model and $53,240 for the performance model. Today in 2023 the Model 3 starts at $40,240 before the tax credit. How Much Is a Tesla Model 3? Cost History, Price Drops, Fluctuations (businessinsider.com) So Tesla has FAILED to deliver ever on their own original prices and a $12,240 price difference is way bigger than a $5k price difference on the Equinox EV that goes into production right after the start of the new year. There is still a chance we will see some auto company deliver a cheaper version like GM has committed to for the Bolt, but that is subcompact compared to compact and already the compact are bigger than they used to be in size due to the required safety features. That is how I see it IMHO.

Happy Halloween, folks I think that, even if we have the paper behind our names, not many of us are suits but, rather, business casual ... or just casual. I'm going to be looking for some pumpkin pancakes and, should I see some receptionists' desks offering up free chocolate, that would be good, too. Enjoy this last day of October.

Already 5k more than what they said a few months ago. That's nice.

The '70-72 Buicks were sharp..same greenhouse as the '70-72 Chevelle. I kind of like the '68-69 Buick Skylark for the sheer weirdness of their styling--the way the rear end curved inward and under, the sweepspear on the side (that Mercury inexeplicably used on the '69-70 Cougar).

My ideal would be 4 months of summer (no highs over 80, low humidity), 4 months of autumn, 2 months of spring, 2 months of winter (no lows under 40).

Good morning * there are numerous memes with this sassy lady! *

As one that has been in both and driven both when your 6'6" tall, 300lbs. You then have a right to call a CX-9 cramped when it is and your legs are pressed into the dash as a passenger cause the seats do not use the space efficiently, but then in a Bolt, I have inches in front of my knees. So yes, my experience of living with a CX-9 for 2 weeks on a family vacation does give me the right to call it cramped. You all are more average size for North America and forget to put yourself in the shoes of those that do not fit the general population. When a subcompact gives more room for a big person in the front and back over a medium sized SUV, then the subcompact is roomier. This is not me being blindly GM supporting, but actually calling out poor packaging of a mid-size SUV by Mazda compared to a much smaller auto from GM. Sadly, most Japanese autos are built around much smaller people due to the country and average size of the people.

No, sir. That's on GM for pricing things and making the future pricing claims. David just blindly backs them, because GM.

This is one that we will have to agree to disagree on as Starting at price with reservation deposits versus around price with no reservations/deposits are two very different things. GM was very clear that they were focusing on having a price around $30K for the base Equinox but would not be able to commit till farther along in their work when they first started talking about this at the 2022 CES show in January of last year and then said they would hopefully be around $30k for a starting price but again no commitment to the price or reservations allowed so it was just a goal. But we each take the verbiage differently. Starting Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster Around Definition & Meaning - Merriam-Webster I get that around is as defined with some approach to exactness versus starting is a set point or price. Yes I get that you see it as a semantic and that GM should have delivered a $30K Equinox. After instant rebate it is still a $27K EV.

I agree with you that it is BS, but I disagree with you that the wording of Starting at $35K or $67,500 for R1T or $70K for R1S versus around $30K. Legally GM can get away with this as they did not state a firm starting price. Both Tesla and Rivian as we well know had to deliver to the original order holders that starting price for their EVs as they committed to the price starting there and took reservation money based on that pricing. Around is not a commitment to $30,000 dollars even though everyone got excited with that price, even me. I have a sister and her partner that were wanting to buy, but here is where another difference is. GM NEVER took any reservations at a set price and the reservations do not open till November now that firm pricing is established. GM's initial Equinox EV to start at $49,000, get over 300 miles range (freep.com) I agree that you have the right to be pissed as does @ccap41 about a difference of $5K for a base starting price versus originally talking about pricing being around $30K. Just remember that GM has not done a bait and switch that did get Rivian and Tesla into hot water as Rivian and Tesla both took $1,000 deposits for EVs with a clearly stated starting price that they then tried to change. In Rivians case they honored the original pricing but for Tesla, they actually produced a few $35K Tesla 3 for a few months and then said that there was not enough demand to justify the price and production and killed it then raising prices across the board. To me, that is a big difference and if GM can truly reduce costs by delaying launch of the Equinox till Q1 2024, then who knows, we might all still see a lower priced Equinox. As it stands, with January 1st 2024 the tax rebate being an instant rebate at the time of purchase on the dealership lot, a base price of $34,995 not including the instant $7,500 rebate makes this a sub $30,000 EV or to be clear, a base price of $27,495 for the base Chevrolet Equinox EV with 300 miles of range.