oldshurst442

SMK...I like that thought process. I dont know how accurate it might be in the real world about customers not buying sedans anymore and buying CUVs and SUVs therefore 300 000 Cavaliers sold to offset the SUV gas guzzling does not apply...but its a very logical thought process that has a lot of truth to it. Maybe GM SHOULD try to get mega weight down from ALL of their trucks and SUVs/CUVs with technology akin to the Malibu and CT6 (like you stated) because gosh darn it...(like you said)...the trends for SUVs/CUVs is only rising... Maybe Ford AINT that dumb to have invested in alumunium and ecoboost V6s in their bread and butter F-150.

That is exactly what I wanted to say...but I figured I did not want to waste my energy trying to explain what the Phaeton was/is...This car debuted in 2002...You know...13 years have passed...if people havent learned what this car was all about in 13 years, there is no sense in me wasting my time and energy trying to teach. I was ignorant about this car in 2002. I hated it. I hated VW for it. But sometime between 2002 and 2015, I read up on it and learned about it and soon, my hatred disappeared at the same rate as my ignorance...

Hey EL K. In keeping with what you said about God Bless America... Remember this rendition of O Canada? I remember watching Mr. Dress up and The Friendly Giant and this would come on. The visuals man, and the orchestra. Best Ever I think! I just teared up...

I could care less for the sight lines honestly. Like I said in another thread, I learned to parallel park in a 1988 Chevy fullsized van. No windows on the side panels other than the rear door square windows waaaaay in the back. Two little square windows at that. I relied on the massive side mirrors and the dinky rear view mirror to drive and park that beast. I dont think there is another vehicle on the planet with worse sight lines than a fullsized work van. I think I could deal with the Camaro's sight lines just fine. But in a world where back-up cameras are needed even for pint sized sub-compacts....we will definitely have whiners for the sight lines of a Camaro...Zeta or otherwise... The Zeta Camaro interior was never really an issue for me either....again, I daily drove that 1988 Chevy fullsized Van for 3 months straight....in the dead of Montreal winter...for 2-3 winters straight...plus...as an owner of a then new 1994 Pontiac Grand Am GT, the Zeta Camaro's interior is a Bentley compared... The D-Day inspired start-up is not a surprise. Its expected. As is for its performance. So..back to the exterior styling. And for me...THAT would be the single most important criteria that HAS to be satisfied as THAT is the reason why I would want to buy a car like that... Its to show off with...and If I dont feel comfortable looking at it when I approach it, then how could I feel good about it when I show off with it? Sure, the rumble of the V8 and the performance numbers it wreaks out...but Id be embarrassed by it knowing that Witwicky is the driver of one... On the other hand, The Bandit, or Frank Bullit or even Kowalski...well...a young Burt and a young Steve McQueen...these guys are the stereotypical cool guy...Shia Leboeuf and a kids cartoon...not so much...

The car looks more sculpted in real life...I got to see the Camaro in person then because as with the Corvette, I bet its pretty jaw dropping, incredibly gorgeous in real life. The only thing that holds me back from really liking it is the exterior styling reminds me too much of Bumblebee no matter how it may look in real life. I just wished Chevy went with a slightly more evolutionary style rather than Photoshop a couple of details here and there (a more muscular sculpted look from the Zeta), reduce by 75-80% and then copy and paste ... http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/reviews/a27655/2016-chevrolet-camaro-ss-vs-2016-ford-mustang-gt/ From the Road and Track link comparo comparing Chevy and Ford pony cars 2016... That sentiment also summarizes it for me. To boot...the Zeta Camaro aint exactly a thing of beauty in my eyes either. But...like I have stated many times in the past, I might just give it a pass and start liking the Alpha Camaro just because there is a chance the car's looks redeems itself by being a sculpted heartthrob in the flesh.

That is one way to look at that diamond shaped leather... I actually like the way it looks though, but in no way do I equate diamond shapes in leather as a high fashion statement for luxury cars... I also happen to think the diamond shaped leather is overdone. Bentley and Lambo also offers that look. AND...If a plebeian Ford product offers one ...not much originality in M-B is there???!!!

OK...maybe I was wrong in calling it a land yacht. Its the perception I get whenever I see one. Its...square and bulky...in all the wrong places. It looks huge. It would be OK had it looked imposing and intimidating, however, it just plain looks awkward. Of all the cars you mentioned...the CTS by faaaaar looks the best. The sportiest and the classiest. The Jaguar looked good 5 years ago. This new one looks dated just because it did not change enough from the last generation. The 5 Series had only two gens that were GREAT looking. The E34 and E39. The 7 Series was always a dog. The W211, I think, is the classiest looking car to be built by anybody after the new Millennium. But I was peeved at it when it first came out....something about the Merger of Equals. Now....one of my wacky dreams is to take an AMG W211, rip out that superb V8 motor, and shoehorn a Hellcat 6. 2 Supercharged Hemi...you know, for the ironic effect... just to stick it to Mercedes... The A6...*YAWN*...what were you sayin *YAWN*...about the A6?

EXACTLY!

Yeah...expensive jets...Canada may have just canceled that contract....I hope they did. CRAPPY EFFIN' jet. The F4 Phantom II. I LOVE that plane. My second most favorite jet ever. Viet Nam war pics. And in 3rd place is the Russian MiG 29/35 Fulcrum. The French Dassault Rafale and Mirage 2000 closely follow in 4rth and 5th place. I dont like the F/A 18 too much. Super Hornet or otherwise. I never like the F-14. I loved the movie though. But...as with cars, my favorite era would be WW2 in that I prefer the classics over the modern.

Sorry, I thought it was the S Class. I forgot that M-B wants to do LCDs across the line-up...still doesnt change the fact that the speedometer cluster looks like something I viewed as a young adult on a video game. And the E-Class is a land yacht itself as of lately... Problem is SMK...I dont like cars to park themselves...I like to park the bloody car myself... I learned to parallel park on a 1988 Chevy Fullsized van...a work van, no windows on the side panels, just 2 square windows on the back doors waaaaay in the back... I even learned to park that thing without back up sensors telling me how close I am to the vehicle in the back...because there was no such thing back in '88. SMK...although the S Class looks awesome for 2015, I dont lust for one. The E-Class looks like crap...the ONLY E Class I liked was the W211 2002-2009 E Class. From the premium to luxury cars in 2015? Maybe an AMG CLS 63, a M6 Grand Coupe, a CT6 would tickle my fancy. A Tesla Model S...and that is about it... Id rather resto-mod/pro tour a classic American car from the 1950s/1960s/early 1970s and put modern tech and luxury into them and spend that 100 000 thousand rather then buy something modern. Other than those 4 cars I mentioned...

When we were lookin' to get the wife a car and before we settled on the Fusion, we looked at the Verano and the Encore... My wife and I were amazed how much room there is in the Encore, and how much upscale it feels. Far more upscale than the Fusion and the Terrain. But it aint fair to criticize the Terrain as its an older vehicle. She just did not like the looks of the Encore. She preferred the Fusion. She liked the Verano, but since we kinda gave away the Mazda 3 to her brother, she felt that she wanted a bigger car than what she had before. The interior space both back and front of the Verano mimicked our 2009 Mazda 3...so we went with the bigger Fusion. If it werent for the exterior looks of the Encore, I think she might have chosen the Encore as she was more comfortable with the interior of the Encore rather than the Fusion's. I however think the Encore looks so much like a premium vehicle. I think the blue ring on the headlight bezels along with the waterfall grill give it that classic Buick luxury look. I like the Encore, a lot. But between the Fusion and the Encore, I do prefer the Fusion myself. Not a fair thing though for the Encore, I dont do SUVs, even less for small CUVs.

You know what makes me laugh... The Conti's interior looks like it mated with that S-Class and they begat this: A Mondeo Vignale... I do like the diamond look on the S-Class, its just toooooo busy with the vertical lines of the wood grain...

Is it better than this one? Actually....I dont like that interior... What I dont like about it: 1. Holy liquid crystals Batman...that speedometer looks like a Playstation Gran Turismo video game cluster...its effin cheesy if you ask me... And yes...Ive seen one live...it looks worse up close and personal... 2. too many lines and diamonds in the design in the wood grain and the seat leather making it look busy rather than elegant... It makes me dizzy just looking at it...There was a link about how M-B is going on with this....and probably many people will adore this...I for one cant stand it... Im sure the quality of the materials are great...and the colour combo is chosen by the customer...so Im leaving that colour combo alone...but it aint my cup of tea that choice of brown...I dont have a problem with that brown really, but for me, that white dont go with that brown...and then there is that black...too many colours that dont blend well...but like I said...this is more of a customization thing... It really is not fair to compare the S Class interior with the Continental interior...because the S Class is that much of a bigger car, wider... The Continental's interior looks cramped as its based on a mid-sized car that will be enlarged to what will barely make it to full size , from the Fusion platform... The S-Class really is of Land Yacht proportions making that "sleek" interior look vast...which makes a huuuuuge difference in perception of luxury.... The Conti's interior and the Lacrosse's interior are fine for what price range they are in...Im not in awe of them, but Im not a hater of them either.

I agree with you SMK for M-B being able to charge more because of image. The one Cadillac where I think beats M-B in image in an equivalent price and product area is the Escalade. One thought to ponder is if Cadillac ever chooses to price a future Cadillac Escalade V in M-B territory, in $120 000 territory, how well would people react to that? Because in the lower trims, in the $70 000 - $90 000 price range...the Escalade has the GL beat in image and prestige. BUT....M-B DOES offer a trim above that....so... And...the GL @ $120 000 is quite successful...

Maybe the could also hire Gordon Gekko while they're at it...

Hey CCAP... I think this is what it is...but with number 80... Im KNOW its the NATO Tigers...its the number that Im not sure of...

It wasnt a sad attempt at luxury though... Cadillac in 2015 STILL does not have a car worthy of this Phaeton...as the CT6 is not available yet... It really is embarrassing that it took Cadillac THIS long to get a car going in this league...a DECADE... HA! MORE THAN A DECADE!!!! Sorry if you dont agree, but the Phaeton was an engineering marvel. It just wore the wrong badge on the hood.

Wanted to give a shout out to GENERAL DYNAMICS for placing 13th in that Fortune Blue Ribbon thing they got going on... http://fortune.com/2015/12/15/blue-ribbon-2015/ GOOD ON YOU GENERAL DYNAMICS!!! The original developers of the F-16 Fighting Falcon, my absolute fave Fighter Jet.

Manufacturers that sell to rental fleets...why do some folk think its bad? Its bad only when your customer base is srinking because you build crap cars and you dump the rest of your unsold crap to rental fleets to bolster up sales... However, its good business when actual customers buy your cars because they actually want to own them and so you sell some of your less than stellar performing cars to rental fleets...maybe the cars that arent selling is because that generation is coming to end...whatever, its good business to sell...to whomever that wants to buy your cars... In other words...selling to fleets is just good business... If your business model sucks or if your products suck and your over all compnay sucks for variuos reasons...its not because you sell your cars to fleets heavily that selling to fleets is bad...your company sucks regardless where and to whom you sell to... What I find horrible in all of this where Hyundai/ Kia and Nissan is picking up the slack and mainly Asian brands...its because we are in AMERICA...and Hertz, Avis, Thrifty, Enterprize, they are American...and GOD DAMN IT...why is it that AMERICANS DONT BUY AMERICAN ANYMORE???!!! I get it...Chrysler, Ford and GM have used that business model trait for soooooo long in the past when they produced junk and dumped all their so called bread and butter cars to rental agencies just to say that they compete with the Asian cars that it has become synonymous to say that rental car fleets equates to struggling car sales because said cars are junk... But in Hyundai's case, I doubt that is the case in 2015...its a smart move by them to gain more exposure when people rent their cars from Thrify and its even more metal they move added to they sales they already make...I highly doubt Hyundai/Kia is relying on rental fleet sales to make the house payments if you know what I mean... I get it that Ford and GM and Chrysler dont ant to re-visit that road again...Im just stating that a car manufacturer that wants to have an additional income source, selling cars to rental fleets is not a bad move... About buying American and American that dont... Sure...the D3 built junk in the 1980s and 1990s....problem is...so did the Germans and the Japanese during that same time frame... The only thing Ill let up on is that some Japanese cars WERE built GREAT in the 1980s and 1990s...the Accord, the Camry, the Civic and Corolla...maybe a Nissan and a Mazda...but the rest were WORSE junk than the American cars!!! And...not that an Accord or Camry did not have any issues either... SO I REPEAT...WHY ARENT AMERICANS MORE PROUD OF THEIR AUTOMOTIVE INDUSTRY LIKE EUROPEANS ARE???!!! That will forever perplex me...

I analyzed the hood area some more... Boy did they cheapen out the design... I LOOOOVE the way that airflow valley is designed in my Fusion and on the Conti Concept...which should translate well on the spy shot car...but...on the spy shot car, FoMoCo took a 2013 design from a Ford Fusion instead of doing it the Lincoln way as its on the concept... The air flow aerodynamics on the Concept really starts on the bumper on top of that LED strip light and is part of the fender which envelops the whole headlight system and is directed to the back below the side windows on to the back end of the car...as opposed to the Fusion and the spy shot car where the aerodynamic airflow starts from the headlights...BIG DETAIL that is missing... THAT is the difference between elegance for luxury name plate and mainstream for plebeian average Joe family haulin duties .. And the lip on top of the grill...there is NO LIP that bulges roundly and then the hood starts leaving a gap between the hood and the front bumper clip...it really is an elegant hood on the Concept that is surrounded by sheet metal that seals itself shut with tight tolerances where the hood line follows through with the airflow line instead of it being like a Ford Fusion hood where the whole top rises and lowers... Cadillac does it this way...the Concept Conti follows that form...but not the spy shot car...another luxury elegant feature that has been cheapened out by FoMoCo for Lincoln... To boot, the CTS's aerodynamic air flow are exactly like how the Concept Conti is...it starts form the bumper, over the whole headlight system and on to the back and the lines are carried through from the bottom of the side windpws...and on top of the grill, that lip, does not look like a cheap feature as you would find on a more utilitarian vehicle... In 2015, where gadgets and leather is found on 20 000 dollar cars, it really is the little details that represent luxury... I hope Lincoln people figure this out soon...

I keep on saying this...its a big bloody shame when an average Joe, run of the mill, family hauler, looks the part of an expensive VIP sedan from an average Joe brand than all of the corporate brother's luxury brand's models'...including the so called game changer new vehicle from that luxury brand...

I was looking at the spy shots, and I too could not put my finger on it why I thought the silhouette of the car looks dated. Then when I read Drew's and CCAP's observations it became apparent to me why I think the silhouette looks dated...because I share their sentiments... I like the grill, the headlights, the taillights. But that silhouette, I cant get passed that dated look... I even analyzed the hood area...and THAT too, looks dated...Ive seen it before...and I see it daily me thinks... Let me explain with that visual help... 1. On top of the headlights of both Fusion and Conti... Both have similar air flow qualities...that are designed to flow the width of the headlights, on top of the hood along the side of the body below side windows....and on the hood itself, it bulges to make that valley so the air could flow... To boot, the Conti's, hood looks bland compared to the Fusion's, same air flow valley bulges for both, but the Conti stops having any other hood definitions, at least the Fusion has more elegant creases on the hood to make it interesting... 2. On top of the grill, both cars have a similar lip before the hood starts, same rounded bulge... 3. maybe to side mirrors of the Conti will change...but crikey...same bloody design in the spy shot car!!! Those 3 points would be other reasons why I think the Conti looks dated...it resembles my wife's 2013 Fusion... I sooooooo want to like this car....I soooooo want Lincoln to have success with this car...*SIGH*....FoMoCo really is making it hard for Lincoln to succeed...and Mullaly is looong gone...so what gives???!!!

Chocolate Milk for me... I know I said cognac coffee before....that was me trying to be cool... I wake up in the morning already ready to face the world... Yup...Im chirpy and happy...when I wake up... and the only fuel I need is a nice cold glass of chocolate milk! With one caveat... 3.25% and Nestlé Quick!

Yeah...I think that is more logical than want I said earlier. And you are definitely right about an Omega 'Slade in 2021/2022...CAFE. Although I dont agree with you with Lincoln. I believe the 'Gator still has mojo left in her, its up to FoMoCo and Lincoln to use their marketing genius to allow that mojo to come out when an all new 'Gator finally arrives. @ Drew Thanx for that insight as I too, forget that GM actually refreshes their vehicles often enough...