oldshurst442

To be fair...Im the one with the double standard by mentioning trucks. But yeah....semantics wont go far with that reality...banning diesels cars....we might as well ban pick-up trucks... But...this conversation that I have happened to start in this way is kinda dumb...and I dont feel good about it. Oh...I agree...its dumb what I said... Im definitely not on my "A" game tonight. It all started going downhill when I rubbed Scott the wrong way.

And I may have to flip flop again... Hey...If I was American...Mitt Romney...never mind... My real take on this... Yeah...because there are better solutions for passenger cars....diesels in cars should be nixed... That is my final answer. Only for cars though...Pick-up trucks...diesels could stay... Double standards...I know...I never said I was perfect. Like I said...I also have hidden agendas...

OK...since you put it that way...that limiting choice is not cool...then you just made me eat my words... I am many things. Unreasonable is NOT one of those things... II do agree that nuclear power plants in North America are built well....even Fukushima, like you said...earthquake AND tsunami...and its the fail safe mode that failed....but ever so slightly it failed...yo, TWO Acts of God back 2 back...not much engineers could do with that bad luck. Chernobyl and Three Mile Island...lessons were learned...and lessons ARE being respected.... Im just questioning Al Gore types in North America on how serious they really are in providing clean alternatives myself... The irony that I have flipped sides on this hidden agenda thing... I aint naive to what Hyper was insinuating...I just wanted to make sure that VW and this diesel mess...well...its FROM THEIR OWN DOING...not Al Gore types... VW just gave more fuel for Al Gore types to use...

I was questioning because I kinda insulted Scott Evans over a MT today...so I did not know how to take your post...since Scott was a tad sensitive...I became a tad sensitive too... OH well... And yeah...because I also feel that diesels in passenger cars really dont have anything to offer, in my opinion, just in case somebody else feels sensitive today, I also feel that diesel passenger cars aint worth the hassle in producing, buying and selling them...

And now...I can 100% agree with you. On all accounts. But...Al Gore types...in politics...are they really willing to commit to properly engineered and properly managed nuclear power plants? Its all about those hidden agendas I also was talking about earlier...unfortunately...they are everywhere, those hidden agendas. Including I. I just told you guys, ban them, keep them, it makes no difference to me...therefore, when Al Gore types target passenger diesel cars, I dont care enough to voice my opinion either for and most importantly against...other than on an internet forum.

Well... I do agree on most points. About passenger car diesels? I dont care really, what the government decides to do. Keep them. Ban them. Its all the same to me. But...coal powered stations and freight trains and trucks are actually NEEDED in the way are system works. There isnt any other viable alternative solutions. (depending what regions we are talking about...Quebec has many raging rivers and lakes...Hydro-electric power is where Im getting at...so...naturally, coal or nuclear aint exactly a thing here.) Coal powered electricity plants....nuclear reactors have to be built. Budget and nuclear waste storage have to be well thought of. Maybe that is more hassle than its worth. And its not as if nuclear power plants are without environmental issues. As far as transport diesels go...there is NO OTHER OPTION...we cant eliminate that... But...in a passenger car...I think we could live without it. Remember...I also said passenger cars.... Pick-up trucks for work is not part of this equation...pick-up trucks for work falls under the same category as freight and transport to me... Literally, passenger...cars. I 100% agree though...there is a time and place to bicker about VW...and this is not one of these times or places.

Greeks Bravo olds. Greeks are some of the smartest MoFo's I know. Has anyone in history come close to the many contributions we gave modern civilization, like: architecture philosophy democracy astronomy sports and olympics mathematics and geometry alarm clocks odometer even early medicine So everyone better listen when a Greek speaks Greeks are also one of the most sarcastic...on the other hand, regular American folk are one of the most sincerest folk... Is that you being Greek? Or is that you being American? That is the question for the ages... Well...in this here thread anyway. It dont matter....my moment in the sun regarding this topic is done. And thank-you if you are being American in that reply and well...hey...we're Greeks, we do what we do if you are being Greek...

^^^ And of course...that. But Id like to see DFELT's question answered about Bosch as well. Id like to see how far this goes. But if that text is legit and Bosch's warning was a TRUE warning and had no clue on how VW was using that software, then it seems like Bosch maybe in the clear...

well...the intentions of CP was to have Drew be in the green side of things...I did just that. Drew's post is where its should have been...on the positive.

Corporate greed. Its as simple as that. When business ethics go out the window to circumvent laws that are in place to minimize environmental impacts...corporate greed is your answer. You understand it...but dont call it as it is....call a spade a spade.... You actually do say that the person(s) involved would be so stupid in thinking the charade would go unnoticed forever. THAT statement wreaks of only one excuse....CORPORATE GREED... Yup...and there is a reason for the government that implements these regs....to minimize environmental impacts... And when VW engineers CANNOT meet those regs...and resort to circumventing laws in order to sell their products...CORPORATE GREED is YOUR ANSWER... Yup...and if VW cannot meet those needs and resorts to lying to their customers about how they do meet those needs with marketing campaigns and TV commercials tooting how VW's clean diesels are...clean....when in reality they are not...making those claims as false advertisement CORPORATE GREED is YOUR ANSWER... Then you go on to talk about GM... Stick to VW as GM's many problems are different than VW's... VW has a war chest of money stashed to the tune of 30 billion or something like that... When VW got caught...VW beancounters right away said that they will put 7-8 billion on the side to take care of the problem... If that does not sound like a guilty corporation full of greed...I dont know what does...

Well...Im long winded by nature... And no...I dont think Im smarter than anyone else. So...Im sorry.

Nice catch on the Caprice wheels... I was off with the headlights and did not realize the Imperial body...kudos to you BLU. Celebrate with Syrian Yogurt and Honey... But I dont mean Honey...I mean...Honey. And to spoil the mood...

I ran out of editing time again... Again...the black plague was hundreds of years ago and was thought to be carried by rats... Nobody thought it was caused by idiot humans urinating in the streets and dumping bath water in the streets etc... So...because people die anyway...and there are worse causes of pollution....do we dare return urinating in the streets? Why bother with Port-a-Pottys and a sewer system? Why even bother telling corporations NOT to dump crap in rivers and lakes? Why even have clean air acts and laws? Why even have laws? Anarchy is a way to go... Murder....hell...there was another shooting in another school today... Why bother finding solutions? People die anyway...old age, cancer, drug overdose, getting hit by a car... Who cares? Speed, run with scissors in your hands...pollute... Have a free for all.... Hidden agendas you say? Well...obviously YOUR hidden agenda is more important than mine... All I want is for corporate greed to stop....and for companies to be responsible when it comes to the planet... If the diesel engine has to go because its a very difficult thing to control emissions wise with all the demands that the modern consumer uts on the automobile...than so be it... Electrics looks like a more viable solution... Could diesels be obsolete? Could be... And maybe THAT is what YOU are afraid to admit...

Hyper...is still does NOT change the fact that diesels are a DIRTY fuel.... It STILL does NOT change the fact that diesels are targeted... OK....YOU like diesels...it still does not change the fact that when YOU say people lie...that YOU also lie and turn a blind eye. It still does not change the fact that when people lie....they have a hidden agenda...and it still does NOT change the fact that...YOUR OPPOSITE opinion of diesels is BASED on YOUR PERSONAL AGENDA....in WHICH YOU are LYING... THAT is THE sad part...when YOU want to push YOUR agenda and YOU push all other agendas on the side... The reality of things...is that diesels...are NOT a very clean fuel... And because today...in 2015....we have BETTER alternatives... YOU could argue the cleanliness of batteries...I wont argue with you on your findings... Just like someone could either be for or against nuclear power.... The fact still remains...diesels are not that clean...and their by product is a DIRECT hit to the air we breathe... you could still argue that fact for battery production...which is a moot point because diesel production emits the same amount at the factory level... But as a fuel source...the battery is cleaner... OK...you could argue about battery disposals... Well...there are laws into place for that... Just like there is for diesel cars and passing EPA emissions... Do you really want me to talk about VW again? We all have an agenda...YOURS is just as hypocritical as the ones you seem to distrust. WHY? When you use as arguments...people die anyway and anyhow... Again...the black plague was hundreds of years ago and was thought to be carried by rats... Nobody thought it was caused by idiot humans urinating in the streets and dumping bath water in the streets etc... So...because people die anyway...and there are worse causes of pollution....do we dare return urinating in the streets?

What is that? '59 lights, bumpers, fenders and grille. What else?

Sorry El K. Did not mean to forget you. Im high on emotion sometimes. And this topic...apparently touched my heart... And it aint because of WW2....I was just trolling with that. and maybe this emoticon too... What got my goat with this mess....was the blatant corporate greed...the TV commercials...the lies. That and I hate when somebody downvotes without explanations! Plus...being accused that Im against capitalists making money... Ill admit...I like socialism...not every aspect of it, but there are MANY socialist programs that I want to be part of my country. But to be accused of hating the rich? Now...I aint rich, by MY definition of being stinkin' rich, but Im doing pretty good for myself if I may say so. To say that I hate the rich....why on earth would I have invested in a restaurant chasing that stupid American Dream for the last 17 years of my life? Just to hate myself in the end? Would THAT be narcissism? That would be the opposite, right? Maybe that is being a neurotic self loathing dude...But I aint Jewish...Im Greek...hence the high on emotion stuff...

The thing is...even in that article that I posted...to NOT have the PUBLIC go in an outrage...the British government wants to go baby steps with the banning of diesels...that is why the knee jerk reaction was mentioned... Why? 11 million diesel motorists will be affected....that have been "misled"... only to mention science again...and maybe the numbers are not correct... YOU will say that its the green movement that is pushing for this... OK... fair enough... Take a study of Los Angeles air pollution from the 1970s and the 1980s and then come and complain to me about air pollution... Dont forget when you study that...to also take into consideration how Europe's air quality was in those times also...Athens Greece should surprise you... And THEN come and complain to me... Before you do that though...take a looksie on how China's air quality is as of today... And THEN come and complain to me... But before you do that...learn about what the TRUTH is behind diesels and THEN come and talk to me.... About diesels...I aint gonna pretend I know...because I dont...so with the diesel part of this argument....teach me... But before you do that... Learn why their are entities like the EPA around....PS: I dont care if they are corrupt also... Why? Because I happen to assume that diesels...just like leaded gasoline...is NOT good for the air that we breathe... So... If diesels have to be regulated with an iron fist....so be it... If VW screwed the pooch for EVERYBODY concerning diesels...c'est la vie... The world had to adapt when killing whales for fuel was outlawed... The world had to adapt when using coal was mostly abolished... The world nearly had to adapt when the world said no more nuclear reactors for electricity...GERMANY has outlawed them nuclear reactors...yes Japan was the reason....Quebec shut down its nuclear reactor too... The world had to adapt when leaded gasoline was no more... The world will have to adapt if and when diesels will be outlawed...C'est. La. Vie. PSS: All those things that I mentioned that were banned from different places on the planet....they all have one common denominator... Can you guess what that is? They are all very harmful to our planet... We continue to pollute it...yes...they are far WORSE things that pollute than diesels... If that is the case...maybe we should return to leaded gasolines... Maybe we should continue whaling. Maybe we should go back to urinating on the streets....just because there are far worse polluters on the planet...

The lack of a base truck may be due to pricing. This is not a cheap engine anymore due to government regs. I suspect they are holding back on engine price some and adding options to spread out the areas to recoup the profits. I would hate to see how much this thing would cost with no options vs. the gas model. I bet there would be a big gulf in price. Our government has taken a Diesel and made it so difficult to price any more with regulations that it has almost priced the engine out of existence. Even Europe with their tight laws are easier but I suspect the Green Party will make a move to work to kill these engines. It really is a shame. I just love how the news people are going around saying VW may have killed 11,000 people? They leave out many who are effected are often people who smoked themselves into repertory issues too. Lets face it we are not finding bodies in the street and the fact is even with the failing reading the VW engine is cleaner than any Diesel in the last 100 years. To really get ill from these engines you generally have to have a contributing illness or you live upstairs over a truck stop. We are not talking black lung here. If anyone was to die from lung/Diesel issues it would be heavy equipment operators who sit behind a stack, Farmers and or truck drivers. One really needs to keep this in perspective as the media like in other cases fails to report all the info. 11K deaths garners more attention than if you really break it down. AHEM... Our government has taken a Diesel and made it so difficult to price any more with regulations that it has almost priced the engine out of existence. Even Europe with their tight laws are easier but I suspect the Green Party will make a move to work to kill these engines. LINKY: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/11571615/Dirty-diesel-cars-could-be-banished-as-Britain-ordered-to-cut-air-pollution.html from the linky: Diesel cars could be phased out in Britain after the Supreme Court ruled that the Government must take urgent steps to tackle air pollution in cities. The UK is facing millions of pounds of fines from the European Commission for failing to cut levels of nitrogen dioxide (NO2). On Wednesday judges in Britain’s highest court ordered the Department for the Environment to submit new air quality plans by the end of the year setting out radical ways of tackling pollution. Environmental and motoring groups said that diesel cars and trucks were likely to be targeted because they emit the largest amount of nitrogen dioxide. Freight companies predicted that diesel drivers would be offered incentives to scrap their vehicles or face stiff new taxes. However Edmund King of the AA warned that the 11 million motorists who were ‘misled’ into buying diesel cars during Gordon Brown’s ‘dash for diesel’ would feel betrayed. “There have been confusing messages and the goal now seems to have changed from encouragement to the demonising of diesel,” said Mr King. “This won’t just affect big polluting trucks, but taxi drivers and families with people-carriers as well. This could drive down the value of cars dramatically. "We all want better air quality but knee-jerk reactions without considering the science will not help air quality, industry or drivers.” Therefore....your hatred towards your own government entities are misplaced... Europe...OK...in this case the United Kingdom...but Im sure I could find other European countries that have vilified the diesel...maybe not...I do know of the U.K. though...will outlaw the diesel very soon...and VW's mess is NOT doing the diesel engine any favours... So...wanna continue this charade against YOUR OWN guvment?

Thanx Drew... I felt that I did not get any support from ANYBODY with that point of view of mine...another reason why I ranted in a very big way.

Im sorry guys... But the thing is...I dont like to hear stupid stuff like that...its one thing to have an opinion...its another to try to justify WRONG DOINGS because of a personal agenda... I get it...you will be SEVERELY inconvenienced by this...BE ANGRY at VW AG... IM SEVERELY ANGERED BY VW AG...and I DONT EVEN OWN A VW AG CAR!!! OK...I never have, nor will I ever give a VW AG car a chance to own...I also have got a personal agenda going on... But can you blame me? I showed you pics of why in my case... 60-70-80-100-1000 years will go by before I forgive and forget... Why do you own a diesel? Gas mileage? And now that VW will have to fix this mess...will you get the same gas mileage as promised? If not...with all those green commercials...isnt that FALSE ADVERTISEMENT when the company had KNOWELDGE that that those promises were false???!!! Isnt THAT also a crime as by U.S. consumer product laws? Or do we ignore that too because YOU might be inconvenienced???!!!

I would hurt VW long term.... imagine if 2.8 million Germans could suddenly not drive their cars for 3 to 6 months while VW issues a fix.... do you think they would buy another? Resale value would be destroyed. This is the German government forcing VW's hand... and it is an effective threat I think. I really do not believe they need to apply much more pressure. They know they are globally in trouble PR wise and they are already working on a fix. They have already forced people out and I suspect more will fall. It will take some time to make the parts. I am sure the agencies of many countries will require them to recertify the cars and changes made. And then they have to get the parts made and then the customers to the dealers. There is no fast track to this and you can apply all the pressure in the world but it will take 2 years if it goes fast to fix a majority. Then they will have to eat the cost of parts, labor, fines, recertification, legal fees and many other things. This will be very expensive in the end. I bet it tops 25-35 billion Dollars in the end minimum. It will for sure hurt VW either way. But if the government stops me from driving my car for no real logical reason till a fix is approved that is a sure way not to be reelected. Lets face it even with the failing readings these engines are cleaner than the diesels of the last 100 years. People are not falling over in the streets and what the media fails to report is many of the 11,000 that are claimed to be victims already smoked themselves into respiratory failure before they were affected by the fumes. You would have to almost live in a truck stop with running trucks for years to do that much damage. Lets face it the people most exposed to Diesel fumes are Farmers with a stack in the face as well heavy equipment workers. You do not see them dropping like flies. This EPA stuff is as much agenda as it is to clean the environment. It is brought to you buy the same people who are promoting the carbon exchange. There is big major profits in environmentalism. YOU are putting the BLAME on the WRONG entity... Dude....its pollution... The cars are not LEGAL... I dont give two shytes if its the same people that are pushing carbon taxes... Yoy dont want to re-elect the officials that are ushing for VW to clean up the mess... Again...YOU are blaming the WRONG people... VW AG are the ones that sold YOU the ILLEGAL car... Again...who gives two shytes what the media is pushing for???!!! The cars as is ....would NOT have been sold if the cars originally FAILED the EPA emissions tests... I get it...YOU are stuck with NO vehicle to drive and out thousands of dollars... VW AG is the one to blame... GREEDY CEOs that run/ran VW AG... You live in America...the land of lawsuits... In the ONE time that a collection of lawsuits SHOULD be had against a corporation its THIS one... Nothing FRIVOLOUS about that... Do I have to re-link the VW commercials again???!!! You...to save face even...dont even want to admit the cancerous shyte box you are driving is an ILLEGAL polltun' machine!!! And do you know why Im being aggressive with you? Its because YOU are an intelligent guy...yet...here you are...you are even blaming YOUR government for this mess...and you know what? ITS THE GERMAN GOVERNMENT THAT MAY BE FORCING THE VW DIESELS OFF THE ROAD IN....GERMANY!!! NOT IN THE USA....SO....WHY ARE YOU EVEN MENTIONING YOUR GOVERNMENT IN THIS???!!! Dont tell me you are yet another American who DOES NOT TRUST their own DEMOCRATIC ELECTED Government...Every 4 years you guys get to elect YOUR leaders...unless of course the USA is in some sort of dictatorship that I dont know about... Besides all that...you guys have the RIGHT to bear arms... The thing is...you could talk to your fellow congressman to tell him how you fell about VW and its policies regarding this mess!!! GEE WEEZ!!!

Yes I know... Other industries pollute....so lets give free reign for VW AG to lie, cheat, fraud, and pollute... Timely fashion to get these cars off the road? THEY SHOULDNT BE ON THE ROAD TO BEGIN WITH!!! THAT is a hard concept for some to accept... DOWNVOTE AWAY!!!

WHY WILL THEY BE OFF THE ROADS??? Remember that image? LEADED gasoline... Yeah well...Diesel...it turns out...is just as bad... Why dont we have LEADED gasoline in our cars anymore? ITS OK...DOWNVOTE THIS TOO...TO MASK REALITY!!! (yes...pun intended)

The thing is...VW DIESEL CARS...IF NOT FIXED...WILL BE OFF THE ROADS SOON ENOUGH!!!

VW AG LIED!!! THEY FRAUDED THE BUYING PUBLIC... THEY HAVE MADE A MOCKERY OUT OF YOU!!! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gj9gwZIdGMs OH WELL....YOU COULD DOWNVOTE THIS POST TOO TO MAKE YOURSELVES FEEL BETTER!!!