ccap41

I think GM will hit the sweet spot with the BOLT. Here in washington state, all new Homes have to have a 220V 30amp charger in the garage now. Also all apartments have to offer the option for a renter to have access to a charger. It is very easy to go and find charging spots all over. The west coast has made huge strides in building out an electric highway system. I did a whole story on the Electric Highway West Coast Style. http://www.cheersandgears.com/topic/84688-electric-highway-west-coast-style/ You can see the maps and check out the updated info. It is expanding all over the US. I truly think it will grow much faster than it took to build gas stations all over. Too bad there isn't an infrastructure like that around here. From my house to work(granted I rarely drive but if I had to) is 35 miles and there is no chargers at the parking garage, or a school(that I know of) and there are none other than my house where I live. There is none really on my side of the Mississippi to make it all that practical. It would basically be home or nowhere, for the most part. Check the STL area on a EV charging station map..and then look about an hour east and see how little there is in between there and STL. I would definitely have 2 of the larger 220V chargers in my garage(one on each side - 2 car garage) installed. Not because I exactly plan on owning two electric cars but if I plan on living in the home for 20-30 years then..there will be a lot more electric cars or plug-ins by that time so best to be prepared to save money down the road. So then check this out, Here is the site that shows the incentives to install home or business chargers. http://www.pluginamerica.org/incentives Nissan has incentives on top of the federal for installing a home charger. It is amazing but you can pretty much get a home charger for free in many states. http://www.nissanusa.com/electric-cars/leaf/owner-questions/ev-incentives Check out the Spark EV, Mini-e, Fiat 500e, Focus E, seems many of the EV auto's have rebates / incentives on top of the federal ones. Oh nice! "Covers 80% of cost premium or conversion price, with maximum rebate of $4,000." - IL That would be a HUGE help in setting up a garage. I wonder if that is "per year" or total? Like, if my theoretical garage would cost $10,000 total(completely theoretical numbers) and 80% is $8,000. Clearly above the $4,000 maximum. But if I did one side one year and one side a few years later(let's also say theoretically it splits evenly at 50/50). Could I get the $4,000 each time..? Because I would be converting twice. I would assume the answer is an easy "no".

I think GM will hit the sweet spot with the BOLT. Here in washington state, all new Homes have to have a 220V 30amp charger in the garage now. Also all apartments have to offer the option for a renter to have access to a charger. It is very easy to go and find charging spots all over. The west coast has made huge strides in building out an electric highway system. I did a whole story on the Electric Highway West Coast Style. http://www.cheersandgears.com/topic/84688-electric-highway-west-coast-style/ You can see the maps and check out the updated info. It is expanding all over the US. I truly think it will grow much faster than it took to build gas stations all over. Too bad there isn't an infrastructure like that around here. From my house to work(granted I rarely drive but if I had to) is 35 miles and there is no chargers at the parking garage, or a school(that I know of) and there are none other than my house where I live. There is none really on my side of the Mississippi to make it all that practical. It would basically be home or nowhere, for the most part. Check the STL area on a EV charging station map..and then look about an hour east and see how little there is in between there and STL. I would definitely have 2 of the larger 220V chargers in my garage(one on each side - 2 car garage) installed. Not because I exactly plan on owning two electric cars but if I plan on living in the home for 20-30 years then..there will be a lot more electric cars or plug-ins by that time so best to be prepared to save money down the road.

Man, deflt. You have me on an electric kick right now. I wish I was looking to build a home or had a really good way to get actual pricing figures on this stuff(because it can vary so much from house to house and location to location). I mean I can read national averages and stuff but because every city is different the numbers can sway quite a bit in any direction. I'd love an electric smaller car for everyday use with a range of 150-200 miles and then something else that burns the coal as either a toy or larger vehicle that doesn't get driven much.I wish the e-Golf had a longer range because that is actually very affordable but with a sub 100 mile range..no thanks yet.

If EVs had a 300-400 miles of range and could fill up as easily as gasoline, what doesn't "work" about that? Yes, we are not there yet. But we can't get there without continued research and development of the technology. Gasoline cars used to not have much range or efficiency either until we needed it for high fuel prices. What happened? R&D and now we have small diesel TRUCKS getting 31mpg(rating) with " 21-gallon tanks mean a maximum range of 651 miles."-C/D. That wasn't happening 30 years ago.

The mandate would be to attempt to "repair" something that is un-repairable that they caused...pollution. I don't think it is a bad idea. For what they did, something that is un-repairable, un-fixable, money can't just be thrown at people to fix what they've done. One way to attempt to actually fix what they did would be to advance the EV field of zero emissions(the electric source is another issue because if it is burning coal for electricity then..well..that's another story all together).

Hey dfelt, This is fairly random, at least for this thread, buuuuuut what's it cost, roughly, to have a 220v outlet installed in a garage? and would it cost twice as much for two or would the price for the second one not really double? I've been thinking about the plug-in and full EVs a lot lately and when I build a house or even just move into one I would seriously consider something like an e-Golf or Volt for the majority of my driving. Ideally, If I'm building the house I'd like to supplement some of the electricity with a few solar panels as well but I know I'm not making a ton of money as it is so.. yeah.. I'd have to look into the tax credits for stuff like that real hard.

"...and to help build out a network of chargers across the U.S." That is what's needed for EVs to really take off.

Yep. I mean it's no secret the Giulia IS being built it's just a matter of who/what/when/where. The Bronco and Ranger are more mysterious than that still. Anyway, 1LE/GT350, right?

Jeez, VW really screwed up on this one.. It's still hard to believe that they let a system out like this(VW). Did they honestly think it would just slide under the radar for ever?

C'MON EL K... You went from dissing the Ford Mustang GT350 and how to fix it to straight trolling Ford and their lack of RWD platforms... You know...Wings is no longer posting here, there is no Ford PR fluff master to "put into place"... MOPAR...you did mention the Giulia...HA! the Giulia is POSTPONED... But...lets talk about MOPAR... With an "old" platform, MOPAR still manages to keep the Challenger cool and hip. Even with Euro badge snobs, this car is revered... Ford...albeit not in the point in time I was looking at the GT350 at the Montreal auto show...the GT350 EL K...lets get that clear... Ford has made the GT350 into a lustful machine...Euro badge snobs look at it and wished their Euro trashed car was more like it...Jay Leno's words, not mine...and lets be honest...his circle of car guy friends sure makes yours and my car guy friends look like pansies... Lets be honest about the Camaro... Its a car with a CORVETTE engine under the hood. Yeah...you think that is a good marketing angle? Id rather just buy a Corvette and I could stop pretending owning a Corvette by driving a Camaro... And I aint even gonna talk about the bag over the head looks its got... You see EL K...I could troll Chevy just as good you try to troll Ford... Now...you know I dont want to do that. Just to correct one thing, they start building the Guilla next month...... With production delayed for several months back in November and reports of failed crash tests, I'll believe it when it actually happens. Yeah, kind of like Ford and the Bronco. Rumors rumors rumors for years.. Apparently they'll make one but I'll believe it when I see it, or at least a practical concept car.

It is a long story.Drew you are smarter than that comment and I know it. Have to agree with hyper. It was a standard for endurance racing as much as a race to 500 miles. Personally, I don't see any level of professional racing being easier than another. The one I'd hold above all is F1 because those cars are the pinnical of technological advancement..even though that also takes skill out of the drivers' hands as well with all of the nannies. Easiest of mechanical requirements..? They're the longest of races(excluding the 12 and 24 hour races) and as any form of auto racing it is about making every component work together in perfect harmony.

I'd be doing this if I were buying a Vette. Fo Sho.

lol sweet, tacky victory BMW. Be proud of that.

Let's see a NASCAR do 500 miles without stopping for a refuel. An electric race car could be made to beat a NASCAR if they had a battery pack swap feature. It can be easily done if they wanted. NASCAR as it is now cut the fuel cells size down to make sure they have to stop more often. They also regulate that the tires need to go so many miles. Goodyear could make a race tire for Daytona that would last 500 miles with no issue. It is has already happened that they have had teams go the entire race with no left changed or only one change just to make sure the tires are fresh. Pit stops were made a part of the competition and to mix up the field so they are regulated to happen when they do. Now lets see someone change 4 tires and a battery in 12 seconds. They do have that new formula electric open wheel series but they change the cars at half way not the battery. Each team has to enter two cars to finish the race with one driver. If they were to race for miles they would use larger tanks and lean out the engines more. It is all in how you tune and what you are racing for. As of now they go as fast as they can and make the stops. target it for no stops or one stop they could do it too. Goals and rules make it what it is. True but at the same time at ~5mpg they would need a 100 gallon tank and that's not realistic. They're 22 gallon tanks. I remember a few years ago they experimented with 12 gallon tanks to break up the field a lot more often in hopes o avoiding "the big one". I don't think it worked and they went back to the 22 gallon tank. They've had races in the Sprint Cup that a team has gone an entire race without changing their lefts??? How long ago was that? Have you ever watched the Formula E races? Pretty neat stuff going on. Completely different racing but entertaining nonetheless. What you are missing is that NASCAR is constructed with rules to make them what they are and do what they do. the Carbs they ran at a track like Daytona were very small CFM and the restrictor plates even smaller. If Nascar wanted to go for MPG they would change the fuel settings on the new FI and tune the engines to still make good power with less fuel. Their intent is to use gas not save it. If they mandated the other 500 miles is very easy to do and they still would be going pretty fast. As for tires they are formulated for each track to last about the length of a full load of fuel. Goodyear works hard to hit these numbers and most the time they hit it. Once in a while they miss it. In recent years here Goodyear goes conservative on compounds they may change lefts only once and even then they are far from worn out. Last nigh they ran 150 miles and most teams did not change a single tire and those that did really did not hold much advantage. If NASCAR said Ok at the July race we want a tire to last all 500 miles Goodyear would have one there. Even some Indy 500 races have gone in the past with no change on the left front at times. The rules regulate fuel usage and tire wear not the technology. Hell just look at a new Corvette and the kind of miles it could get going around Daytona with Z06 power and technology. A little larger cell and with a little leaned out tuning for running at a specific RPM it may do the 500 miles with no issue. But the rules will not let that happen unless they say to do it. I have seen the Formula E and it is interesting. Different but interesting. Rules in most racing shape the ability of the car. Take todays technology and you could just about do anything you like anymore if you set the rules to use it. The only things that can not be overcome are the rules of Physics. This is why FWD cars are still not seen much in racing accept in their own classes or series. Traction is just tough to come buy in a performance application with weight transfer and side loads. Asking front tires to turn, stop and go with unfavorable load transfers make it even harder to put it down to the track. What I'm missing? I'm not missing anything.. I understand the sport completely. The intent is to find the best combination to win the race be it fuel savings or power. The intent is not "to use gas and not save it". If you think that is the case then you have not been following the sport very closely as most every race comes down to fuel mileage one way or another. Yes, each tire is different for each track. I wouldn't necessarily say that they are designed to last one fuel run based on watching the races. Close, absolutely. But some tracks are waaaay worse on tires than others. Tracks such as Darlington, eats tires up and lap times will slip 3-4 seconds A LAP after only 15 or so laps on a set. Then there is Daytona were the fall off isn't drastic at all. What race was it that somebody/anybody did not change the left sides(NASCAR and Indy500)? lol.. no $h! a factory car could do 500 miles on a race track. A Z06 wouldn't win or even be on the same lap as a Sprint Cup car though. Just because it's got the power doesn't mean anything. It can't even do 200mph in a straight line let alone around a track. Also, you think a Z06 going full tilt will get any better than 5mpg? At 18.5 gallons of fuel on board a Z06 It'll be stopping more than a Sprint Cup car while running slower laps. My car can do 500 miles with only one fill up and NO stop for tires, does that mean it can race in the Daytona 500? I'm not sure what you're getting at with that statement about the Z06. I thought the initial point of somebody saying Daytona 500 was a slap in the mileage/fill up department.

Let's see a NASCAR do 500 miles without stopping for a refuel. An electric race car could be made to beat a NASCAR if they had a battery pack swap feature. It can be easily done if they wanted. NASCAR as it is now cut the fuel cells size down to make sure they have to stop more often. They also regulate that the tires need to go so many miles. Goodyear could make a race tire for Daytona that would last 500 miles with no issue. It is has already happened that they have had teams go the entire race with no left changed or only one change just to make sure the tires are fresh. Pit stops were made a part of the competition and to mix up the field so they are regulated to happen when they do. Now lets see someone change 4 tires and a battery in 12 seconds. They do have that new formula electric open wheel series but they change the cars at half way not the battery. Each team has to enter two cars to finish the race with one driver. If they were to race for miles they would use larger tanks and lean out the engines more. It is all in how you tune and what you are racing for. As of now they go as fast as they can and make the stops. target it for no stops or one stop they could do it too. Goals and rules make it what it is. True but at the same time at ~5mpg they would need a 100 gallon tank and that's not realistic. They're 22 gallon tanks. I remember a few years ago they experimented with 12 gallon tanks to break up the field a lot more often in hopes o avoiding "the big one". I don't think it worked and they went back to the 22 gallon tank. They've had races in the Sprint Cup that a team has gone an entire race without changing their lefts??? How long ago was that? Have you ever watched the Formula E races? Pretty neat stuff going on. Completely different racing but entertaining nonetheless.

Let's see a NASCAR do 500 miles without stopping for a refuel. An electric race car could be made to beat a NASCAR if they had a battery pack swap feature. Very good point. They will probably stop between 8-10 times Sunday for fuel and/or tires.

The Yukon starts $17,000 more than the Acadia and with the 2k price drop it will be 19k difference. That's pretty significant to most people, probably all buying the Acadia. So while it is only a step away it is an un-affordable jump for most. So size per dollar is why people are upset about it. Personally, I like it because I like the Edge and Grand Cherokee size vehicles. Larger, 2 row SUVs.

Nahhh you're drunk. Go home.

You've never replaced your headlights after 16 years????? I guess it doesn't have the DRL so unless you do a ton of night driving it kind of makes sense.

Me too...me too. But electric power also gets me hot and bothered... Im conflicted... However, Im not fighting the pain in my brain...Ive learned to love both at the same time... As you know CCAP, Im a muscle car guy through and through...and at the basic level...what does that mean actually? Gobs and gobs of torque at low RPMs. Well, electric power has all of its torque...and its a shyte load...INSTANTANEOUS at ANY RPM... Its hard for a muscle car guy NOT to love electric sport sedans...for the FEEL of you being pushed to the back of your seat when your foot presses the accelator pedal... Yeah.."feel"...we've seen that word before.... My partner's Model S...Oh, what a feeling! TESLA! (yeah..I stole that line from a certain Japanese automobile manufacturer) Do electric cars still have a tachometer? All this low end and instantaneous talk got me thinking.. Funny enough, I loved my 4.6 in my mustang, I can't get enough of the GT350 yeeeettttt my driving style suits electric and the monster push rod engines when it comes to performance cars and small displacement turbos like my current 2.0 where they make a lot of low end tq but don't scream on the top end. I'm not the kind to hoon around on a regular basis so low end tq is where it's at for me. I NEED to get a ride in a Model S. I can't imagine what that ride is like. Such a freakin quick car and it's big and...quiet!

Gasoline fumes, eh? How about the smell of a car running w/o catalytic converters or the smell of a race car burning that high octane stuff..also without cats?? Now that smell gets me all hot and bothered!

Also, not trying to bash your purchase in any way but how is that 3.7? I just looked up the numbers on it and 210hp out of a 3.7 sounds a little weak? Does it feel better than the numbers? I mean it isn't like 200hp is weak for a smaller SUV it just seems weak for the engine displacement. Actually, back then 210 hp out of a 3.7 was an improvement over 190 out of the 4.0 it replaced...V6 hp numbers are higher now than they were a decade ago.. Yeah, I also saw it was like 230tq so those are the kind of numbers you want out of an suv, if you ask me. I'd always take the usable tq over a peaky power band.

Neither car is "easy" to get in or out of in my opinion but the view from the Camaro is a deal breaker for me.. While I'm not a huge fan of the exterior I could deal with it and I guarantee if I bought one I would fall in love with the lines of it but when I sat in one the window didn't start will 6-8 inches above my shoulder. Granted, I'm not tall at only 5'8" but I'm not short either and the seat could have definitely been adjusted but there was no way it would adjust as much as I would have needed to feel comfortable looking out. I could live with the poor blind spot over time probably because any car in the class won't have great blind spot visibility but I was definitely hoping for more improvement than there was.

Anybody else watching the Duels in Daytona??? Pretty good racing!

Its more like this, CCAP Hahahaha I forgot about the puking guy!!