ccap41

I completely understand what you're saying but I bet they were saying the same exact thing in '02 with that camaro. It's just hard to swallow north of 37k for a starting price on a v8. I know it's inevitable due to CAFE and the tech that's been put into the car but I still don't like it..

This is one reason why.. 2002 camaro z28 was 22,500 - adjusted to 29,800 for inflation.

I mean..I'll still complain about it.. I still don't like that you're forced into more equipment even if "most" order it with that stuff. I understand why they did what they did but I still don't like it as a consumer.

I personally wouldn't, but if you insist, they are closer than the rest of the vehicles in that list. I could see them also being more on the intro to lux side.. Yeah the rest of that list is just complete random 4 door vehicles.

Do you actually hate the sport of football or how the league/government use it? The owners DEFINITELY can afford to build their own stadiums. But part of them asking for money is because they're used for WAY more than just football games which(supposedly - I tried to look it up and I see responces in both directions) bring money back to the city and/or state. Love College Football, have come to hate NFL, Over paid babies, Over rated league with owners who think a cast system is society cause they are better than everyone else and NO, the stadiums DO NOT get used for other things that benefit the tax payers, the stadiums get used for Concerts, monster truck shows, etc that the NFL owners get to charge for and take people hard earned money. Every study has shown that tax payer supplied stadiums DO NOT return the money back to the cities and people who live in them, then you have the stupid politicians who give up sales tax, maintenance costs to allow even more money into these 1/10th of 1% people. The money should be going into our students and the education of society not into the uber rich!. I'm kind of confused how you like college football and not the NFL when you're talking about money and greed. College is even worse when it comes to being greedy. I won't argue that the money doesn't get returned directly to the taxpayers but it does bring revenue to the city which pay their employees at places like; Hotels, bars, restaurants for all of the sporting events and auto shows and conventions that are held(in domes). All of those peopl with tose jobs shop at grocery stores, own cars, etc. Successful franchises make a huge difference as well. I've talked to the owners of the bar that my friends and I attend and they said every winning season their sales are higher, post season appearances their sales are higher(STL teams in this situation). And those are owners only making 35-40k a year. So it does have a trickle down effect. To what extend is it worth paying X hundred million for a stadium.. I cannot answer. No, I do not think they should be 100% publicly funded, at all. Do I have a legitimate % to throw out there? No. But the owners have a case to ask for money as does the state/city. Which is why I think they should be split some way or another. Yep. I was born in Kansas City. I've never been to a Chiefs game (or any NFL game for that matter) but I know that there isn't anything like Arrowhead Stadium. Plus good BBQ there too. You lived in KC and never made a trip to Arrowhead?!?!?

Yeah, too bad that's #6 out of a class that really only has 11 players in reality. Also, while everyone is throwing the sales figures around, here's a juicy little tidbit that nobody knows or ever hears/talks about- GM counts their service loaners as monthly sales. In other words, they're inflated. That's 6 out of 13 in reality. Why you would exclude the Subaru and the Mazda is beyond me, other than the fact that you are saying it like that to support your point, which is a bit muddled at best Frisky. Sorry. Lol, I am counting the Subaru and Mazda. 1)Toyota Camry 2)Honda Accord 3)Nissan Altima 4)Ford Fusion 5)Hyundai Sonata 6)Chevy Malibu 7)Chrysler 200 8)Kia Optima 9)VW Passat 10)Mazda 6 11)Subaru Legacy What on earth is so hard to understand about this? I think I would include the Regal and CC as well, but that's just my personal opinion. Either way.. the top 5 have a pretty solid sales lead on the rest of the field.

^ Does Ford/FCA/Anybody else do that, that you know of? I'm also curious, in your opinion, what cars on that list do you not consider competitors to the segment? Not sure why the Venza is on that list, Priuses, C-Max, Leaf, Outback.. That's just a weird list.

Yeah, but you're from MD too, you know that mid May through August is non-stop A/C season. I'm not putting my windows down when it's 85-95 degrees and humid like a sauna. Same here in the mid west. It gets brutal hot and humid from june-august. This august we had a SUPER mild streak though, like a week and a hald of 80 degree highs and 65 degree nights. It was amazing.

Dodge Avenger has sales this year still? They better be 50% off. Lol

Saw something I never thought I would today. Then about 7-8 more. Fully built(looking and sounding) 70-80's drag cars pulling trailers. They were small trailers but the first one that I saw that caught my ears and then eyes had MASSIVE slicks on the back and it chirped them what sounded like shifting 1-3. Not aggressive. Just wicked stall on a car with stupid power. Oh and the trailers. Lol I caught one pic and you can kindof see two. The closest one pictures in a Fox Body mustang..with a trailer. Lol I also don't know where they were all going. There wasn't a track anywhere in the direction they were heading unless they were all leaving Gateway Motorsports Park and coincidently going the same way(about 20 minutes from the track). I didn't think they had things during the day like that but if they did, that's awesome! Well, here's the pic I grabbed. Damnit. I don't know why it rotated when I posted it.

Probably around the same time the f150 throws their 2.3 in theirs. I mean power output surpasses the base n/a 3.5 already.. I think they both need to lose a little bit more weight or somehow reduce rolling resistance be it aero, less drivetrain loss, weight, etc.

I really like the looks of the current generation and there's something about this that doesn't strike me as attractive. It did need to grow a bit as it was slightly undersized or the segment, good to hear it lost weight as well.

Chiefs won. Better Sunday. Ahhh you're a Chiefs fan?!?!? One of my best friends is a Chiefs fan actually. We might be road tripping at the end of October to go to a Chiefs/Steelers game in Arrowhead. We went to a Chiefs/Cowboys game a few years back there as well. Awesome..AWESOME environment!

There aren' gas stations out there either..

Personally, I don't see an initial post/thread topic that is even PR fluff being fanboyish. It is the following conversation that makes or breaks it to me. Okay I guess it would be a little fanboy-like but that doesn't bother me. A little fanboy/biased is COMPLETELY understandable and expected. EVERYBODY has it no matter what they say, it's just how much. Fluff is how these companies make their money..but it doesn't mean it is lies. That stuff CAN be worth talking about so I don't mind it being posted. If I don't find it interesting I just won't post in there. I may try and find an example of the irrational fanboy-like posts. Something that is being stated as a fact, is an opinion, and it also trying to make somebody else look like a dick - that is what I consider an irrational fanboy-style post. Not thinking, just trying to be right, and by being aggressive it makes them seem like the "winner".

Do you actually hate the sport of football or how the league/government use it? The owners DEFINITELY can afford to build their own stadiums. But part of them asking for money is because they're used for WAY more than just football games which(supposedly - I tried to look it up and I see responces in both directions) bring money back to the city and/or state.

So basically the GT350 route of their own variety? OoOoOooo a big nasty 7.0 would always be nice.

But there are many times when it isn't worth commenting when dealing with ridiculously irrational fanboy-style posts. (on the negative side of voting) and sometimes there just isn't time to type something up or you just want to give a passive "thumbs up".

Oh absolutely, a great starting point. I'm super curious what their next hi-po version will be. Will they go GT350R/Z/28 route? or will they make another(as I like to call it) bruiser like the ZL1/GT500/Hellcat?

I'm curious what your opinions are on the other end of the spectrum then, the upvote. ?

What I find most interesting is the weight numbers. GM is claiming an SS weight of 3685 pounds based off a base weight of 3908. Thing is, C/D had a test SS that weighed in at 3860 once. So, it is not outside the realm of possibility that a run-of-the-mill Zeta SS will weigh in at 3650 pounds. I predicted this elsewhere, some time ago. I believe you did.. and I doubted it. lol But, with the new packaging it won't ever be a bare bones SS. I personally don't think they will weigh this new one as low as 3650 but it is a possibiliy.

Are you talking about the Focus ST? Because the 2.0 and 1.0T do not make more than 160hp. The 2.0 makes 160hp/146tq and the 1.0T makes 123hp/123tq. The Mazda does have a larger(non-performance) engine option, which I think is really cool and unique to the segment. 2.0: 155hp/150tq and 2.5: 184hp/185tq. I will agree that 160hp is very weak for these size of cars but the 184tq should make up for it in daily driving. It will run like most ecoboosts and run out of steam up top but it'll feel plenty fine when driving and accelerating normally, IMO.

Cowboys won. Rams won. Cardinals won. Good sunday.

On my way to work this morning I managed to see 3 motorcycles,1 2001 Cobra convertible(down), and 1 Jeep with its top down/off. It was about 50-55 degrees.

Probably. The Spark just did. Yup. Every car grows. Except maybe the Miata. But can anybody name a car that has shrunk in the past 5 years? That's just "how it goes".