ccap41

I just figured between weight and physical size(cutting through air) would have yielded 1mpg towards the ATS. At least at cruising highway mpg.

I was just pointing out and summarizing.. That was all. I expect every review to have highs and lows. I didn't say that the heavier feel was a bad thing, nor did they - that was why I quoted it. The heft makes it feel substantial, but not "more substantial-feeling than the Benz E-Class". They never said it felt more substantial than the E Class, just that it felt substantial in its own.

Just for the record this is what the one gent actually said about it's weight and "substantial feeling". He didn't say it felt "more substantial-feeling than the Benz E-Class" "all with an inch or three of the E. It is more than 350 pounds lighter than the Benz, which is interesting, because the CTS feels decidedly heavier (and yes, I thought this before I compared the specs, honest). So the CTS feels big and solid, but in a good way. Substantial is the word, which made it a real pleasure on the highway..." ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- However, there were many positive things said about the car. I'll highlight some of them. "I could not fine one fault with this car in terms of performance. Not one. Aggressively tuned - and impressively so, I might add - everything about the CTS rings true, especially for people who know and understand the difference. The steering and braking feel, the tautly-tuned suspension, the overall accuracy of the dynamic execution, everything about the actual driving of the CTS is first rate, second to none, in fact." "Gone are the bad "beige-on-beiger" combos that GM seemed to crank out in their sleep. Instead, our CTS tester featured a black and red interior treatment that was truly first rate. Very elegant, very tasteful, very refined. " "As for the rest of it, I concur with WordGirl because the interior of the CTS is simply stunning, with a quality of materials and level of workmanship that again, are second to none in the segment." Couple "lows" as well.. " Is it awesome? No, but then the E-Class isn't really "awesome" either. It just a well-engineered, well-equipped luxury car that still manages to embody more than a modicum of the prestige and exclusivity that the Mercedes-Benz brand used to be all about. And the CTS? It's a well-engineered, well-equipped luxury car that's trying to convince us that it has prestige and exclusivity equal to its rivals." " But there's the rub: If the CTS and E-Class are essentially cost equals, would I choose the Cadillac? No. Intellectually, I understand that the Cadillac is every bit as good as the Mercedes (and all of its luxury rivals, for that matter). But emotionally, I can't make the leap to the brand yet. -WG" Odd to me that both ATS AWD and CTS AWD get the same mileage with the 3.6.

In their defense, a lot of that gap is due to tire technology and outright power. I too thought about the tire tech. I mean from 9 years ago with the GT tires were "junk" compared to what is available on super cars now. But beating the R8 V10..whew..impressive. It is still crazy because even with the old tech tires it is/was still an incredible super car. Just looked it up and the rear tires are 315's, GoodYear Eagle F1 Supercar. I'm not trying to justify or say it is a great tire to today's standards, just showing you what it is, http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Goodyear&tireModel=Eagle+F1+Supercar&frontTire=345YR8F1SUPERCAR&rearTire=14YR9F1SUPERCAR&vehicleSearch=true&fromCompare1=yes&autoMake=Ford&autoYear=2006&autoModel=GT&autoModClar=

Looking strictly at lap times and cars(I know different years and different conditions...) there are some crazy observations as well: With the CTS-V running a blistering 2.56.8 the cars that it beat are pretty incredible.. I'll start with the least impressive and get to the ost impressive. IMO 2013 GT500: 3.00.6 2013 ZL1: 2.57.5 2013 C63 Black Series: 2.58.0 2007 Z06: 2.58.2 2006 Ford GT: 3.00.7 2014 R8 V10: 2.57.5 Those are super cars. We already know how nuts the Z06 is and knocking down $X00,000 cars but a sedan beating super cars..even older is damn impressive to me.

The corvette is a 55k car. The z06 isn't. Same with a Camaro SS and z/28. That's like the c250 and a c63. Base vs top of the line performance model. It would be like saying C Classes should be 40-60k then they throw out a 100k version. Yup... I wonder why the AMG C Class is that much higher in price over the mainstream C Class? The Z06 is exotic level engineering... Welllllll in al fairness the C63 AMG S does start at 72k. But, that is nearly double what a C Class starts at. Whereas the Z06 is a 30% increase in price over the base Stingray the C63 is about 47% price increase over the base C Class. Just throwin out some numbers..to go with what we both said, really. I think 'today' they are both pretty exotic level of engineering as the C63 isn't really a German muscle car like it used to be. Where it was just a big engine, lots of low end torque, and didn't turn all that well(compared it its priced competition - guarantee it still drove freakin good).

The corvette is a 55k car. The z06 isn't. Same with a Camaro SS and z/28. That's like the c250 and a c63. Base vs top of the line performance model. It would be like saying C Classes should be 40-60k then they throw out a 100k version.

That's that super deep purple, right??? I love that color!

Completely leaving out the EcoBoost engines as I know your feelings on them(and their mixed reviews are very obvious - very hit or miss it seems) where have there been mixed reviews of their n/a engines?

Crazy seeing the Z/28 run a faster lap than the AMG GT.

You've seen mixed results with their n/a v6's and v8's?

I see what you mean but in the CL days they were still the only manufacturer with a vehicle in that class.

And the S Class still has more variety than the competition.. And the "previous gen" S Class coupe was the CL Class. They actually do have a convertible too. http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2017-mercedes-benz-s550-mercedes-amg-s63-cabriolet-photos-and-info-news None of them make wagons in this class of car..rightfully so, imo. The competition "only" has sedans. There isn't a coupe or 'vert 7 Series, XJ, A8, or CT#.

Whatever you have to tell yourself. You have made more assumptions about me the past few weeks that I can shake a stick at so I am just merely returning the favor. Tell me again how I only go after certain Ford fans again, while ignoring the fact that I have also gone after Casa (GM), Tonavi (Toyota), XFists (Toyota), Apex_Alex (Toyota and general lunatic) in the past. I have been on those threads for years so when you only try to reference the recent past (like you have), you just make yourself look foolish. That is the 100% truth because that is what you have done. Hypocritcal posts.. "returning the favor" is the same thing as admiting to being hypocritical. I don't recall saying you only go after one Ford fan. I recall saying you love to argue, start arguments, continue arguments, argue just to argue.. all of the above.. Oh I'm sorry that I only look at what I've been around for.. How foolish of me to not dig into the archives to check our posting history against other people. Oh how foolish of me.. My apologies..Sincere Sincere apologies. Oh god father who's the most right about everyone please forgive me.. You pointed out me going after Wings, Bill, and Stang, all of them Ford fans. Just stop already with the condescending bull$h! ccap. You know full well what I am talking about when you go around and try to make assumptions about me. Is it just in your nature to NOT accept responsibility for what you have done? The point is that you don't know $h! about me so stop trying to assume what you know about me. Seriously, I am done discussing this with you or Wings. Now, we can all either agree to disagree and try to act like actual adults around here, or you can continue on with this BS. The choice is yours but I am effectively done explaining a damn thing to you. This quote from you on the previous page is why I call you on things. " Harassing PMs are your "MO" and will not be tolerated in the future. And please stop acting like you have some honor around here with that "So post it. That was my original intention, but I chose not to degrade threads." non sense. You didn't post it here because you knew it would get you in trouble, not because of what you "chose". That is the biggest joke of all and I'll tell you why. Who in their right mind would send a condescending PM to someone who has clearly expressed no interest in hearing from you whatsoever? Only a narcissist like yourself apparently." The underlined pieces are 100% exactly what you've done to me. Couldn't have been described any better. You've sent me 6 aggressive/harassing/threatening/however one would like to describe them, PMs.

Wow, Thank You Wings! Much appreciated.

Whatever you have to tell yourself. You have made more assumptions about me the past few weeks that I can shake a stick at so I am just merely returning the favor. Tell me again how I only go after certain Ford fans again, while ignoring the fact that I have also gone after Casa (GM), Tonavi (Toyota), XFists (Toyota), Apex_Alex (Toyota and general lunatic) in the past. I have been on those threads for years so when you only try to reference the recent past (like you have), you just make yourself look foolish. That is the 100% truth because that is what you have done. Hypocritcal posts.. "returning the favor" is the same thing as admiting to being hypocritical. I don't recall saying you only go after one Ford fan. I recall saying you love to argue, start arguments, continue arguments, argue just to argue.. all of the above.. Oh I'm sorry that I only look at what I've been around for.. How foolish of me to not dig into the archives to check our posting history against other people. Oh how foolish of me.. My apologies..Sincere Sincere apologies. Oh god father who's the most right about everyone please forgive me..

Agreed, and that is the ONE ANNOYANCE of it. People take things personally real quick. Reasons Casa rocks: Straight up honesty.

This was the first thing I thought of. Reduce the power and increase the range. Also, is this not the top of the line trim they spoke of? So it is in Range Rover territory pricing-wise then..right?

A harassing PM is a harassing PM. There aren't Grape flavored ones or Watermelon flavored ones. They are all harassing and they all taste the same. Look at you assuming about the two of us. I wish you knew how many PMs Wings and I have sent eachother, ya know colaborating against everybody else. You'd have a better perspective on things. But you go on assuming, after critisizing me for doing the same. Sniff Sniff.. smells.. smells kind of like..

"Less than 24 hours after reports began to circulate that the long-rumored Jeep Wrangler–based pickup was seriously being considered for production, Automotive News has seemingly confirmed that the project is a go. The news, which comes tied to the announcement that Wrangler production will remain in Toledo, Ohio, was confirmed to AN by independent sources. According to the outlet, the vehicle is still under development and is slated to debut in either the 2017 or 2018 model year after the next-generation Wrangler. Car and Driver’s inquiries to various Jeep representatives for an official confirmation were met with a “no comment” response. Although FCA isn’t expected to make any additional official announcements or comments until the current round of talks with the UAW conclude, Sergio Marchionne divulged a small part of the plan to AN: “We found a solution that accommodates a variety of other interests to us because of the way in which we can move some product around,” the CEO said. “It doesn’t take a rocket scientist [to know] that the only way I can move around the Wrangler is to move it into the other Toledo plant.” Currently, the Toledo plant is made up of two facilities, one of which produces the body-on-frame Wrangler and one that assembles the unibody Jeep Cherokee. By shifting Cherokee production to another facility (such as the Belvidere, Illinois, plant that makes the Dart), the second Toledo line could then be retooled to assemble body-on-frame vehicles and bring the next-gen Wrangler online without stopping assembly. If a single Wrangler line was forced to retool, that could cause the off-road ute’s scorching-hot sales to cool off ..." http://blog.caranddriver.com/holy-toledo-jeep-wrangler-based-pickup-is-happening/

I wish I could help.. but I'm in Illinois.. What vehicle are you looking at?

..I believe I've received harassing PMs from a select 1 individual as well.. What's the old saying about throwing rocks in a glass house or something like that?

Okay, upon further review.. (I was on my phone last night and remembering lengths of like 6-8 cars and remembering the order I obviously just confused myself) I see it is right in the ballpark of the S Class, A8, 7 Series,XJ in overall body length.

"Arriving at dealerships this fall, the new 3.0-liter turbo-diesel V-6 will command a $1500 premium over the gasoline-powered supercharged V-6 Range Rover Sport. Dubbed Td6, it makes 254 horsepower at 4000 rpm and 440 lb-ft of torque at 1750 rpm. Interestingly, this 60-degree V-6 is a design that dates back to 2004 and the days when Ford owned Land Rover—in fact, Ford still builds the engine for Land Rover even though it doesn’t power any product with a Blue Oval." http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2016-range-rover-sport-td6-diesel-first-drive-review Why the hell does Ford not use this is something of their own????

^ Wings? A few? Or just Wings? And I didn't know he was an engine designer/engineer.. I knew he was an engineer but I never heard what area he worked in.