surreal1272

The CLA DOES NOT COMPETE WITH THE ATS. And now you're moving the bar on volume. What a damn joke. Pick an argument and stick with it for once.

Bet you are not talking about those back seats (which what everyone is talking about here) because I'm 5'10" and the back seats of all those luxury compacts, including the C Class, are too snug for anything more than a run up the street. Again, your bar moving is on full display here.

Except you skipped the logic completely with you made the ATS to CT6 comparo when it would be more accurate to jump from the ATS to the CTS, which is the 5 series competitor (not the CT6).The rest of your "logic" can be applied to any car this exposing the fallacy of your argument. The CT6 is priced closely to the 5-series and E-class. The base prices with destination charge are: CT6 2.0: $54,490 CT6 3.6: $56,490 528i: $51,195 535i: $56,845 E350: $54,025 CTS is $46,555 with destination charge, $7,500 less than an E350, the E350 and CT6 are $465 apart. That is why I compared the price jump as going to a CT6. That doesn't make it any less of asinine comparison.

And then you skewed and moved the bar on it. You point out the $20K jump for BMW while ignoring the fact that the gap is not near as big from the ATS to the CTS. You see the problem yet?

Except you skipped the logic completely with you made the ATS to CT6 comparo when it would be more accurate to jump from the ATS to the CTS, which is the 5 series competitor (not the CT6).The rest of your "logic" can be applied to any car this exposing the fallacy of your argument. The CT6 is priced closely to the 5-series and E-class. The base prices with destination charge are: CT6 2.0: $54,490 CT6 3.6: $56,490 528i: $51,195 535i: $56,845 E350: $54,025 CTS is $46,555 with destination charge, $7,500 less than an E350, the E350 and CT6 are $465 apart. That is why I compared the price jump as going to a CT6. No. You (once again) created an imaginary scenario that meant nothing to no one else but yourself in order to take Cadillac down another peg.

Except you skipped the logic completely with you made the ATS to CT6 comparo when it would be more accurate to jump from the ATS to the CTS, which is the 5 series competitor (not the CT6).The rest of your "logic" can be applied to any car this exposing the fallacy of your argument.

ATS was designed to be the lightest car in the class, the whole "every gram matters" philosophy they talked about. But some other guys got lighter, or got roomier and bigger while not adding any weight, and most of the ATS weight advantage in 2013 was in comparing an NA 4 cylinder ATS to a turbo 4 BMW and a V6 Mercedes. Low weight is nice, it isn't the way to win buyers. If it drives like a tin can, or has no interior space, or a cheap interior, no one will care what it weighs. Show us ONE publication that says that the ATS drIves like a tin can. It also has basically the same dimensions as the competition, i.e. they are all too damn small in the back.

ATS was designed to be the lightest car in the class, the whole "every gram matters" philosophy they talked about. But some other guys got lighter, or got roomier and bigger while not adding any weight, and most of the ATS weight advantage in 2013 was in comparing an NA 4 cylinder ATS to a turbo 4 BMW and a V6 Mercedes. Low weight is nice, it isn't the way to win buyers. If it drives like a tin can, or has no interior space, or a cheap interior, no one will care what it weighs. So how does the CLA get away with it since, in lower to mid level trims, it suffers from a lot of the same issues? The CLA 2.0T is $3,000 cheaper starting price than an ATS 2.0. At $40k the CLA is pretty well optioned and it gets 38 mpg highway in fwd models. It also has a sporty look to it, so I think styling and the fuel efficiency help it sell, and no doubt the 3-spoint star on the front is a big factor. I never drove a CLA, so I can't speak to how it drives, from sitting in them, they don't feel luxurious, but they feel well put together, sort of how I see a VW Passat. It isn't luxury, but you get a sense that is made solid. And again he misses the point completely. How utterly NOT shocking.

That's the same weight weas a 328xDrive..... what's your point? Smk and Balthazasr already repeated a lot of what I was thinking. I can just add again with emphasis.....useless back seat ....joke of a trunk....and still weighs 3700 pounds. That's hardly packaging efficiency. Coupled with an interior that is lacking, and a power train that needs help to feel all of one piece, no wonder they don't sell. CLa at least has style and a nice interior. The c class which was the actual mission of Cadillac to compete with, is in a whole nother league. If the car /power train felt more refined and had a better interior, the shortcomings would be greatly masked. Sorry but the CLA has a $h! interior if you go with anything less than top of the line. The style is certainly subjective too as I think it looks like it got hit in the front and the back at the same time.

ATS was designed to be the lightest car in the class, the whole "every gram matters" philosophy they talked about. But some other guys got lighter, or got roomier and bigger while not adding any weight, and most of the ATS weight advantage in 2013 was in comparing an NA 4 cylinder ATS to a turbo 4 BMW and a V6 Mercedes. Low weight is nice, it isn't the way to win buyers. If it drives like a tin can, or has no interior space, or a cheap interior, no one will care what it weighs. So how does the CLA get away with it since, in lower to mid level trims, it suffers from a lot of the same issues?

I noticed the same thing but this is going to happen after several weeks of very intense discussions across multiple threads. There is always the "letdown" period before it seems to start back up again. It also happens when the repeating trolls get set aside for their actions. That does tend to pare the posts down because no one has to deal with the trolling BS afterwards until it all starts anew on the next "My Ford is better than your Chevy" (and vice versa obviously) or "Cadillac sucks because they can't blah blah blah" thread. The other factor is that those kind of threads can get a little tiring to see the EXACT same "arguments" made time and time again.

Depends. My magic can be a little "erratic".

This is actually not a bad looking truck in person but that heft is going to kill sales for it when most of the competition has gone on a diet.

Is this a serious question? Buick all the way. In fact, this is literally the only domestic from the 80's I would have (a close second to the Monte Carlo SS). Is this a serious question? Buick all the way. In fact, this is literally the only domestic from the 80's I would have (a close second to the Monte Carlo SS).

No. This morning at a press conference, Mitsubishi Motors chairman Osamu Masuko said a takeover was going to happen sooner or later. Plus, Mitsubishi already had a connection with Nissan concerning kei cars in Japan and they were in talks about extending this partnership. Whether they intended to sell or not is not my issue. I understand that completely. However, hat doesn't mean that Nissan wasn't looking to get a better deal. Letting the fuel controversy slip out prior to the buyout seems to lend some credence to it but maybe I'm just wearing my tinfoil hat a little too tight in regards to this.

So Nissan busted mistubishi on their fuel issues and then buys thirty percent of them. Does that not sound fishy to anyone else, i.e. stock manipulation?

How in the world are they copying a ten year old BMW? They have, for the most part, met or passed them in the driving dynamics category and they sure as $h! don't look like any BMW. Please elaborate. This because some here forgot how absolutely craptastic German interiors were thirty years ago.

Nice $300K Maybach that is nowhere close to the actual S Class being brought up here.

Nor does it have to. Good f@#king God fanboy. A few people make even a passing mention of a Mercedes and you go off the unrelated deep end again.

No. I'm saying make up your mind. Pick a stance and stick with it. You don't call someone out for that and then go do the EXACT same thing. If you don't understand the problem there, then this discussion is over.

Whether they are production shots or not is irrelevant as they are all done that way (referring to the three I posted). Again, they rest of what you are saying is purely opinion based while you try to pas it off as fact. But it does get beaten in luxury. Whether by the slimmest of margins in the base S550 versus the designo interior option that elevates the S-Class. Wait... didn't you just bang on someone for using a rendered picture? I couldn't find what I thought looked exactly like the configurator Drew. So I'm not sure that's the base model that you have posted. Everywhere else the CT6 is top notch. The car is truly engineered as a proper Cadillac. You don't get to move the bar here SMK II. We were talking about interiors l, not luxury. Duh! The S Class is more luxurious. It damn well better be for $100K and then some!

Whether they are production shots or not is irrelevant as they are all done that way (referring to the three I posted). Again, they rest of what you are saying is purely opinion based while you try to pas it off as fact. But it does get beaten in luxury. Whether by the slimmest of margins in the base S550 versus the designo interior option that elevates the S-Class. Wait... didn't you just bang on someone for using a rendered picture? I couldn't find what I thought looked exactly like the configurator Drew. So I'm not sure that's the base model that you have posted. Everywhere else the CT6 is top notch. The car is truly engineered as a proper Cadillac. On quick visit to MBs site confirms this is base trim. Also, you say you have the media as your evidence. Guess Drew doesn't count?

Tells me to post live shots and then immediately posts another "produced" shot. Why even bother having a discussion with you? Wait... didn't you just bang on someone for using a rendered picture? He sure did. My friend irony got a good laugh out of it.

Whether they are production shots or not is irrelevant as they are all done that way (referring to the three I posted). Again, they rest of what you are saying is purely opinion based while you try to pas it off as fact.

What verifiable fact? The only one who has been saying that it doesn't has been you. Also, if you had actually paid attention to the very first post comparing the two, you would have seen that they were referring to a base model S Class versus a platinum CT6, of which the latter DOES compare to. Not saying it is better but to act like it doesn't compare on some level because you say it doesnt, does not mean it is true. That is what you are not getting here.