surreal1272

BMW, Lexus, Mercedes, and Audi have all pulled off those numbers by moving down market into Buick territory... so if you want to include that market, merge the Buick and Cadillac numbers. If you don't want to include that market, drop the 1/2-Series, GLA/CLA/B-Class, A3 and low end lexuses. Edit: and possibly GMC Denali numbers... I have been telling him the same thing for weeks. If you are going compare all Mercedes models for sales purposes then you have include all that apply from GM, not just Cadillac. Of course, that would kill his weak argument and he wouldn't be able to continue his cherry picking campaign. GM covers these two markets with 3 brands, Mercedes covers it with one. There is a valid debate to be had over which strategy is superior, but comparing sales numbers without acknowledging these facts is dishonest. Then you have to give BMW all Mini sales, because the cheapest Mini costs the same as a Verano and the Clubman is the same price as an Encore. Mini sales aren't any good, but if you want to compare sales down to $21,000, BMW should get them too, Audi should get to add the Volkswagen CC, Tiguan and Toureg, because those are priced higher than similar Buicks. Bottom line is Cadillac is GM's luxury brand, it is the one with the task of targeting Lexus and the Germans. No. The bottom line is that you are wrong. Cadillac and Buick both serve the luxury market against Germans (Cadillac) and Lexus (Cadillac and Buick). Seriously. You're going to hurt yourself with the constant bar moving man. Slow down.

I thought this paragraph somewhat summed it up from the above article: "Hours after the sun set, the Regal was stalking the CLA250 on Route 89A leading to Jerome. The road was narrow, with the eerie kind of dark where a bright moon is of little use. Here, the Regal was as good a curvy road companion as the other three, though it did mandate first gear for the slowest hairpins. It drives like it is the most skewed toward luxury, with abundant pitch and roll, yet its wide front track and accurate steering place the car where it’s needed. Dare we say it was the second-most enjoyable in these conditions behind the at-home-on-windy-roads BMW? The CC doesn’t dive as much on the brakes as the Regal, but it’s harder to feel out the front tires through the steering. The CLA250 is nimble, but the twin-clutch automatic struggles to respond on manual toggles and the overly stiff front shakes the rest of the car, making for sweaty hands.[/size]" Funny side story. I lived in that area for years. The drive Jerome will certainly test any cars handling capabilities. Just one hairpin turn after another. Fun drive though if you have the right car.

Per request. http://www.motortrend.com/news/entry-level-luxury-sedan-comparison/

Again, your bull$h! cherry picking is not going to fly here. If you think that certain model Buicks don't compete with the cheapo CLA, then you are further deluding yourself. Again, I can post that MT comparo where the Regal handed the CLAs ass to it if you want.Oh and the LaCrosse starts a whole $1000 less than the CLA that can't even beat a Regal.

BMW, Lexus, Mercedes, and Audi have all pulled off those numbers by moving down market into Buick territory... so if you want to include that market, merge the Buick and Cadillac numbers. If you don't want to include that market, drop the 1/2-Series, GLA/CLA/B-Class, A3 and low end lexuses. Edit: and possibly GMC Denali numbers... The CLA costs more than a Buick LaCrosse, and no BMW or Mercedes or Audi costs $21k like a Verano. The Germans have more up market products, say $75k and up, than the American and Japanese brands also. The Escalade and The LS460 and LX570 are it. Sorry but you don't get to cherry pick this. You don't get to use Benz sales across the board, which I noticed you didn't exclude the $15k Smart cars, and then say that we can't pick this or that. Sorry, but you screwed yourself here.

BMW, Lexus, Mercedes, and Audi have all pulled off those numbers by moving down market into Buick territory... so if you want to include that market, merge the Buick and Cadillac numbers. If you don't want to include that market, drop the 1/2-Series, GLA/CLA/B-Class, A3 and low end lexuses. Edit: and possibly GMC Denali numbers... The CLA costs more than a Buick LaCrosse, and no BMW or Mercedes or Audi costs $21k like a Verano. The Germans have more up market products, say $75k and up, than the American and Japanese brands also. The Escalade and The LS460 and LX570 are it. [/quote Sorry but you don't get to cherry pick this.

BMW, Lexus, Mercedes, and Audi have all pulled off those numbers by moving down market into Buick territory... so if you want to include that market, merge the Buick and Cadillac numbers. If you don't want to include that market, drop the 1/2-Series, GLA/CLA/B-Class, A3 and low end lexuses. Edit: and possibly GMC Denali numbers... I have been telling him the same thing for weeks. If you are going compare all Mercedes models for sales purposes then you have include all that apply from GM, not just Cadillac. Of course, that would kill his weak argument and he wouldn't be able to continue his cherry picking campaign. GM covers these two markets with 3 brands, Mercedes covers it with one. There is a valid debate to be had over which strategy is superior, but comparing sales numbers without acknowledging these facts is dishonest. I agree 100%

BMW, Lexus, Mercedes, and Audi have all pulled off those numbers by moving down market into Buick territory... so if you want to include that market, merge the Buick and Cadillac numbers. If you don't want to include that market, drop the 1/2-Series, GLA/CLA/B-Class, A3 and low end lexuses. Edit: and possibly GMC Denali numbers... I have been telling him the same thing for weeks. If you are going compare all Mercedes models for sales purposes then you have include all that apply from GM, not just Cadillac. Of course, that would kill his weak argument and he wouldn't be able to continue his cherry picking campaign.

People who troll for no good reason tend to be a buzzkill as well.

Lowest priced Camaro is still barely on lots. I don't kno what the f@#k GM is doing on that car, but if they want to regain the bottom sales they need to bring it. The 2.0L is just now hitting lots. Outta the 16,000 Camaros on sale.. Cars.com is reporting that only 1900 are 2.0L, and many of them are in transit It was done because I was comparing MID-LARGE sales between Caddy and Audi because I happen to own a CTS. Sounds right because it makes no sense for GM to keep hindering their numbers for whatever reason. I do wonder how much the price point affects it. Even though the base price for the 4 is reasonable, you know there are not going to be too many of those on the lots at any one time. They are, more often than not, going to be equipped in such a way that it might (key word is "might") be a little high versus the Stang, even though I feel the Camaro is better than the Stang in just about every metric and it does seem to come with more standard equipment.

Trend or aerodynamic laws are forcing that body shape? https://spaceflightsystems.grc.nasa.gov/education/rocket/shaped.html And why anyone would be proud of being the first to the most useless version of a sedan (and further lending credence as to why more folks buy CUVs these days) is beyond me. Don't get me wrong. The CLS is sexy as hell and I would have one if I didn't have to foot over the maintenance bill but let's be realistic here. I don't have kids. It's just my wife and I and always will be so a coupe based sedan is not a big deal to me because hardly anyone will be in the backseat. However, I am in the minority in that department and most folks have kids and such and they will quickly outgrow those types of cars and move right into a CUV without even looking at another sedan. Of course, I like to play the weirdo car when it comes to some cars and would rather have this Mercedes. Yummy.

First off, you know damn well that JD reliabliity crap on vehicle that are less than a year old means petty little $h! for the most part. How can a company know how reliable a car is in less than a year's time? Seriously? Second, I know first hand that Mercedes cost way more to own and maintain than your little JD charts reveal. Own one with some miles on it and that'll tell the story, post warranty. I've owned a C350 and had the AC condensor go out at about 80k miles(2k to fix), thermostat under 100k($400 to fix - did it myself for the cost of the thermostat($100) and coolant($35) and little $h! went out on it like the auto wipers, passenger rear door lock knob randomly flew off and had to take the door panel off to realign the piece that the knob screws into(HOW THE F DOES A LOCK KNOB JUST FALL OFF?!?!). Want more? Girlfriend owns a G500.. Constant issue with the doors not locking or unlocking. Every few fuel fill-ups the gas cap light warning comes on(after replacing it twice), multiple light bulbs are out that the vehicle warns about but I've tried replacing all of them and they just don't work, driver front headlight has fried the harness twice(how the F does that happen?), She's had the window motor go in the driver front and passenger rear once each dropping the glass, Windshield wiper motor went once. Oh, and the 6 disc changer in the rear won't eject so there's no using that, just the one in the dash...sorry no getting those CDs out w/o going to a dealer.. Yeah, reliable cars. Oh I forgot the best one of them all!!! Her G500 would randomly just shut off. Driving, idling, on railroad tracks(happened once, not joking - The location is 2 sets of tracks and the road T's on the other side so you're going slow to make a turn.) and sometimes it would start right back up, sometimes it wouldn't. That's about as dangerous as a car can get if you're cruising at 70-80 on the interstate and you lose all power steering and brakes out of nowhere. I was with her twice when it happened and they tried taking it to dealers but it was so sporadic that it was nearly impossible to diagnose. Man, I would have set that last G500 on fire on the MB lot if they told me they couldn't diagnose that problem. That is simply unacceptable for a brand that prides itself on being the "best or nothing else". Don't know if that had the start/stop system while idling, but if so then that was clearly the issue. Electronics can be a nightmare and they are even worse on European models. The Japanese have had the best handle on that since the early 90s (with a few exceptions of course). The domestics are getting better but still have some ways to go IMO. However, the Euro brands are by and large, the worst of the bunch when it comes to electronics. Again, this isn't even debatable unless you are just hopelessly blind and aspire to be a professional bar mover.

First off, you know damn well that JD reliabliity crap on vehicle that are less than a year old means petty little $h! for the most part. How can a company know how reliable a car is in less than a year's time? Seriously? Second, I know first hand that Mercedes cost way more to own and maintain than your little JD charts reveal. Own one with some miles on it and that'll tell the story, post warranty. I've owned a C350 and had the AC condensor go out at about 80k miles(2k to fix), thermostat under 100k($400 to fix - did it myself for the cost of the thermostat($100) and coolant($35) and little $h! went out on it like the auto wipers, passenger rear door lock knob randomly flew off and had to take the door panel off to realign the piece that the knob screws into(HOW THE F DOES A LOCK KNOB JUST FALL OFF?!?!). Want more? Girlfriend owns a G500.. Constant issue with the doors not locking or unlocking. Every few fuel fill-ups the gas cap light warning comes on(after replacing it twice), multiple light bulbs are out that the vehicle warns about but I've tried replacing all of them and they just don't work, driver front headlight has fried the harness twice(how the F does that happen?), She's had the window motor go in the driver front and passenger rear once each dropping the glass, Windshield wiper motor went once. Oh, and the 6 disc changer in the rear won't eject so there's no using that, just the one in the dash...sorry no getting those CDs out w/o going to a dealer.. Yeah, reliable cars. Oh I forgot the best one of them all!!! Her G500 would randomly just shut off. Driving, idling, on railroad tracks(happened once, not joking - The location is 2 sets of tracks and the road T's on the other side so you're going slow to make a turn.) and sometimes it would start right back up, sometimes it wouldn't. That's about as dangerous as a car can get if you're cruising at 70-80 on the interstate and you lose all power steering and brakes out of nowhere. I was with her twice when it happened and they tried taking it to dealers but it was so sporadic that it was nearly impossible to diagnose. I'm going to bump this so hopefully all get to see the fantastic reliability that MB offers. And I'm going to help you because some people need a reality check. You want to like said brand? Fine. No one is stopping you. However, that should come with a healthy dose of reality to help cure any kind of brand related blindness. Very well said btw ccap.

CAFE. Their CAFE score is probably junk too because they're so small and don't get any better fuel mileage than a Fiesta/Spark/Sonic/Versa...etc. Fuel economy of a Smart car: Manual trans - 32/39/35(city/highway/combined) Auto trans - 34/39/36 Ford Fiesta 1.0: 32/45 Chevy Spark: 30/41 Nissan Versa: 31/40 Nissan Sentra: 30/40 Chevy Sonic: 29/40 An Altima will get 39mpg highway! That's only 3 automakers. And the Sonic, Spark, Versa, Fiesta all start cheaper than a Smart car and the Sentra starts at 16k and change. The Smart car is a joke. Oh I agree 100%. I get their purpose in Europe but when larger Civics and Corollas are killing them in MPGs and cars like the Sonic and Fiesta being much better looking AND larger as well, I cannot fathom why anyone would choose a Smart. On top of that, they are horribly unreliable. Only Fiat has a worse reputation in that department.

CAFE. Good thing it isn't too reliant on volume because Smart has no business being sold in this country since clearly nobody wants them. CAFE or not, that POS is inexcusable.

Maybe you missed the part where I said I used to tow German cars. I towed plenty of them owned by people who kept all their service up to date. Most them ended up on the lots as CPOs after their warranties were up. As long as MB offers a good warranty and maintenance program, yes people will buy them. What they do not DO, is buy a used one outside of said warranty. FACT. They are horribly unreliable for the price point and have way overpriced maintenance costs, both of which are not even debatable unless you want to continue to remain blind to it just because own a damn Benz. Oh and your asinine sales argument holds, surprise surprise, no damn water. It has WELL DISCUSSED as to why their sales are soft. More CUVs just like Benz and BMW did. DUUUUH! I wonder how effective their CPO program is (Benz)? Sending all those letters to Caddy owners has surely got to be working right? I mean it worked for Casa didn't it? I see a lot of older Mercedes on the road. So either owners keep them or someone else is buying them, because I don't think once the warranty expires at 50k miles they go to a scrap yard to be recycled and turned into soda cans. I bought one out of warranty, I love the car, it is rock solid. Cadillac only introduced the Escalade because the Navigator was a smash hit in 1998. So they took the Yukon Denali, changed the badge on the grille and called it Escalade in a 6 month rush to production. Then they saw not only the Lexus RX sell well, but the ML320 and X5, so they came up with the CTS based SRX, about 5 years after the import SUVs. At that point, after twice being late to the SUV/crossover party and having to react, you'd think they would have launched several crossovers to get ahead of the curve. But nope, didn't do that either. the SRX went on salon 2004, it is 2016 and they still have one crossover plus Escalade (which they did get right, especially by the 3rd gen). 12 years, no expansion in the fastest growing segment! Blah blah blah, beaten horse, blah blah blah. Listen. If MB and BMW had failed to put out the half dozen CUVs they have out now, they would be on just as $h!ty a standing as Cadillac. Bank on it. This is proven by those sales you want to put so much stock in when you think it is convenient for you. CUVs up, sedans down. Remember that discussion yet? Seriously. Just stop.

I have owned two GM cars, I had the air conditioner condenser go out on both of them around 100k mile, I had 3 different power windows break on my Aurora, I had to replace 3 engine mounts on the Aurora, and the GM dealer admitted they break all the time, because the mounts GM used were not strong enough for the torque the V8 made when the engine would lift. Under-engineered, designed with save a buck parts. If GM cars were so bullet proof in reliability they wouldn't have lost all their market share, when people left for Toyota and Honda for better reliability. Lexus went from not existing to outselling Cadillac and Lincoln in about 10 years time, that is a pretty big accomplishment, and they did it because of reliability. My car has the same engine, transmission and air suspension of the 07 S550, and between the previous owner (via the carafe report) and me, the engine powertrain repairs have been a small oil leak that was about $200 to fix and a cam shaft sensor went bad, that was about $200 as well. That is it in 90,000 miles on the engine. That engine has incredible reliability. The negative to Mercedes is it costs $425 to change the transmission fluid. To change the spark plugs and wires is about $400 for a V8. Some routine maintenance is expensive. Are U comparing a $700 Air Condenser issue with a $3000 cost of changing of the Timing Chain in the FLAGSHIP Benz? I'll add that his Benz didn't even remotely have 60K on the odo.. even worse is that when he went to trade that German PIECE OF $h! in it was worth $26K. Let me say that again.. $26K on a car that cost him almost $95K seven years prior. To your POS Benz.. my previous GM vehicles have all been 60K+ with the SUVs (previous 00 Yukon, '07 Tahoe) having upwards of 120-150K.. never an issue that cost more than $50 outside of tires. The funniest part of his post is claiming that, after a "small" oil leak and a cam shaft sensor replacement at only 90k miles on a $90K flagship Benz, he still hs the balls to call it "reliable". Sorry but my lowly 3.5L in my Magnum never needed any of that and I rolled up 127K miles on it before I had to sell it. Your excuses are becoming just outright pathetic SMK. Anything else you want to get busted on today? The oil never dripped to the ground on my car, the dealer found it inside the engine somewhere, and said it wasn't even necessary to fix, but I like everything working in proper order. My Aurora easily drank an extra 1-2 quarts of oil between oil changes since it was burning so much once it crossed 100k miles. I think that was standard operating procedure for the Northstar and Aurora 4.0 engines, I still loved both those engines, great sound and smooth, but they did burn oil, and the Aurora leaked a little bit I am sure as it got older. I really liked my Aurora, but reliability wasn't it's best strong suit, I had a lot of costly repairs, but I also had it from 26,000 miles to 151,000 miles and for 10 years. And not that I want to spend money on repairs, but since I really liked that car, I always felt like it was worth it to keep the Aurora running as I did enjoy driving it. Was I talking about your car? No. Would you even admit to such problems if they did exist? Also no. You also just basically admitted that it is okay if a Benz is not very reliable. Glad you finally came to your senses on at least that much. Thanks for playing.

Maybe you missed the part where I said I used to tow German cars. I towed plenty of them owned by people who kept all their service up to date. Most them ended up on the lots as CPOs after their warranties were up. As long as MB offers a good warranty and maintenance program, yes people will buy them. What they do not DO, is buy a used one outside of said warranty. FACT. They are horribly unreliable for the price point and have way overpriced maintenance costs, both of which are not even debatable unless you want to continue to remain blind to it just because own a damn Benz. Oh and your asinine sales argument holds, surprise surprise, no damn water. It has WELL DISCUSSED as to why their sales are soft. More CUVs just like Benz and BMW did. DUUUUH! I wonder how effective their CPO program is (Benz)? Sending all those letters to Caddy owners has surely got to be working right? I mean it worked for Casa didn't it?

I have owned two GM cars, I had the air conditioner condenser go out on both of them around 100k mile, I had 3 different power windows break on my Aurora, I had to replace 3 engine mounts on the Aurora, and the GM dealer admitted they break all the time, because the mounts GM used were not strong enough for the torque the V8 made when the engine would lift. Under-engineered, designed with save a buck parts. If GM cars were so bullet proof in reliability they wouldn't have lost all their market share, when people left for Toyota and Honda for better reliability. Lexus went from not existing to outselling Cadillac and Lincoln in about 10 years time, that is a pretty big accomplishment, and they did it because of reliability. My car has the same engine, transmission and air suspension of the 07 S550, and between the previous owner (via the carafe report) and me, the engine powertrain repairs have been a small oil leak that was about $200 to fix and a cam shaft sensor went bad, that was about $200 as well. That is it in 90,000 miles on the engine. That engine has incredible reliability. The negative to Mercedes is it costs $425 to change the transmission fluid. To change the spark plugs and wires is about $400 for a V8. Some routine maintenance is expensive. Are U comparing a $700 Air Condenser issue with a $3000 cost of changing of the Timing Chain in the FLAGSHIP Benz? I'll add that his Benz didn't even remotely have 60K on the odo.. even worse is that when he went to trade that German PIECE OF $h! in it was worth $26K. Let me say that again.. $26K on a car that cost him almost $95K seven years prior. To your POS Benz.. my previous GM vehicles have all been 60K+ with the SUVs (previous 00 Yukon, '07 Tahoe) having upwards of 120-150K.. never an issue that cost more than $50 outside of tires. The funniest part of his post is claiming that, after a "small" oil leak and a cam shaft sensor replacement at only 90k miles on a $90K flagship Benz, he still hs the balls to call it "reliable". Sorry but my lowly 3.5L in my Magnum never needed any of that and I rolled up 127K miles on it before I had to sell it. Your excuses are becoming just outright pathetic SMK. Anything else you want to get busted on today?

To the bolded.. Who is able to spend $46K on a CTS and not spend a measly $7K on a new E350? Who are those people? U??? Are U one of those people who have a hard time figuring out if $7K is gonna fit in your budget? LOL... f@#k outta here. Its so comical its downright stupid that U try those underhanded put downs. For some people a Mercedes is too much car, or they worry what if it is expensive to maintain. When the past 3 years Mercedes has been 5th, 2nd and 8th in reliability. My mom had a client of hers looking for an SUV, she could have afforded a GLK, I suggested a certified used diesel GLK at the time since they put over 20,000 miles a year on it, and with the 4-cylinder diesel it got like 33 mpg. They bought a Nissan Rogue new instead, because they were worried a Mercedes was too nice or would have higher maintenance costs than a Nissan or Subaru. There are people who want average, and do not want the Best. I bet a lot of Lexus GS350 buyers buy the car because of Lexus's reliability, fit into the crowd styling and low ownership cost. They aren't buying it because it is better than a Mercedes, they are buying it because they never owned a German car, heard some old wives tale, and the GS350 has the same V6 their Camry had 10 years ago and it seems safe to them. Sorry but that first sentence is a load of apologetic elitist bull$h!. Btw, it's not an "old wives tale" when it's the truth. Ask any mechanic who is not paid by Daimler. I sure towed enough German cars, back in the day, to open up my own overpriced unreliable car lot.

My question is, why is Smart still in business in the US? Clearly no one wants them.

So the E Class is the only sedan with a year over gain for April. Seems to fit the pattern of every other make out there. Maybe some don't care about the best either.

Honestly I'm surprised that the Camaro is not doing better. Kind of a head scratcher given how well it's been received by everyone that has reviewed it.

Lincoln had nowhere to go but up and sure wasn't because of their sedans.

Why did you not include A4 and ATS sales figures in your summary? Because it specifically says MID-LARGE. Why limit to make your point? Why not include all competing sedans from both mfg's? Why does it matter so much to you? He laid it out clear as day so splitting hairs over it is just silly.