A Horse With No Name

The Trucks and SUV's are the most competent part of the Nissan lineup IMHO, it makes sense that they are selling better than the somewhat dated and uninspired passenger cars Nissan sells.

Does anyone else find it ironic that VW will be announcing the supposed TDI repair on November 11th, the same date in 1918 that the Germans surrendered and ended WW 1?

Glad to see the Spider doing well for Fiat. Jeep has earned every bit of the sales increase they have seen. Renegade is still holding its own.

I really like the jeep grand Cherokee. Acadia Denali and the JGC both have a MUCH better sense of exterior style and identity than the Acura SUV lineup.

Agree that if Acura could meet the interior levels of Buick, that it would help them greatly. Buick does a better job with chassis tuning than Lincoln I think. Regal is a nice driving car. However, I think i would splice in the DNA of what BMW was from about 1985 to about 2003 or so for all three. It would help them greatly. The Fusion is a really fantastic design IMHO, if Lincoln could pick up some of the lightness and athleticism that make the Fusion great, that would go a long way towards helping their passenger cars from a styling standpoint. Looking forward to it, got to get some things done myself!

I like your idea that each of the brands needs to learn from the other one. I would like you to be more specific in what you think Buick lacks that Lincoln and Acura do. Acura is certainly seen as a more upscale brand, but Buick was never really intended to be a Luxury car. I could honestly see someone looking at a Buick cross shopping say a really well equipped Subaru legacy. Someone cross shopping an Acura would probably look at Audi and BMW.

Thanks!

...and to round things out, 1970 Road Runner, 440 Six Pack. Another car I had a lot of fun in high school with, my buddy Tim had one that was Purple. It wasn't stock, and would pull the front wheels off the ground. Back in the days when motorcycles were slower, we used to go out and embarrass the two wheel guys. Note-I do not endorse street racing in any way, even though I was young and dumb once. Tim's car had the optional Ar Grabber hood, which I would want for the dream car garage vehicle. Interested to see what everyone else comes up with.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/motoringvideo/8566579/Goodwood-2011-the-mighty-Mephistopheles-returns.html https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mephistofeles_(car) Fiat mephistofeles, Car #3. Fiat Botafogo, 21.7 Liters. Car #4.

1933 Napier Railton, 24 Litres, 500-600 horsepower, broke almost 50 speed records on both sides of the Atlantic. Naturally aspirated W12 Bugatti Royale, 12.7 Liters straight 8

Add for car #4 a 57 Ford retractable..... Car #5, K code 1966 Mustang Fastback.

Kind of the Ford equivalent of the 210 handyman wagon or Nomad, two door wagon-272 Y block V-8. 1956 Ford Ranch wagon Car #3, the 56 Ford Thunderbird from the other thread that was too small in cubic inches for the 5.0-5.9 segment. Another Ranch wagon.

Would be rational I think. Sorry, another vintage list, have 50's cars on the brain; 1956 ford pick up, 276272 Y block V8-

Neat, I learned something today!

Certainly not me. Although the Sonata is certainly a competent vehicle....it isn't really a very interesting one.

The best thing about the car is that Lincoln, with all of its issues, is acting like an aspirational car maker again. I may not like certain subjective elements of the vehicle, but this does show that they want to get back to the top of the heap.

Several things are worthy of note. To me part of Luxury is that you want a car that has gone the extra mile and "made it" in life because you have in a significant way "made it" in life. Acura has failed in my mind to push the envelope and essentially "be the best that it can be." Thus in essence it has gotten to the point where it is too comfortable with its position in the luxury car market and is, as I have said before, riding on its reputation. Perhaps not expressed well here in my various responses. Maybe we need another whole other thread talking about what really does define luxury in an automobile. Fanboisim is a terrible thing, and I am perhaps being too harsh on all of the Luxury car makers, but I really honestly feel everyone has some serious work to do. Acura really is that bad in my mind, I will have to disagree with you here. My 2015 Jetta SE TDI is pretty much as nice or nicer inside than an Acura. I cannot say that about Cadillac, Lincoln, Infinity, Lexus, Audi, BMW, or Benz. 1st gen CTS, that was then, this is now. A Few years ago I would have gladly bought an Acura TSX over a 1st gen CTS...not any more. Not forgetting at all how dismal both Ford and GM were. I have been a sometimes sane and rational, sometimes not terribly sane or rational critic of both of them here for almost a decade. And part of the image problem I am talking about with Lincoln is the long period of time where they had the same not very interesting variations on the Town Car as their top vehicle. People I think very clearly remember those years, which is why I said Lincoln needs to work on Image.

Let me clarify- I think they lag in terms of brand perception and I would choose a TLX over an MKZ as a personal car because i find I like the driving dynamics better. Acura I honestly feel is much more perceived as a luxury brand than Lincoln. Perception and image are important for a luxury brand. I am writing in this thread not to be hostile but to clarify my own thinking about Luxury brands. I do honestly like the SUV's of Lincoln better than the SUV's of Acura, although I do find the Navigator somewhat dated-something Ford is working on and going to improve on. While we may disagree on the subjective value of vehicle styling I do find the SUV lineup (minus the Navigator) wears the Lincoln design language much more successfully than the passenger cars, including the Conti. I also have a much lower expectation for sporty or intuitive driving dynamics with a luxury SUV vs a luxury passenger car. If I were to tell the marketing director of Lincoln what to improve, i would tell them that they needed to work on brand perception because this is where they lag behind Acura. Were I to talk to an Acura exec, I would tell them they need to work on the interiors in terms of both material quality and design. Thinking about this, I do think Lincoln does a better job than Acura with dashboard design ergonomics and the overall interface between the actual vehicle and driver. Go sit in an Acura and check out the center stack. methinks you will see what I mean. And a huge thanks to everyone participating in this thread, you are all helping me think through how I perceive luxury cars. Sorry if I am as clear as mud at some points!

I agree with Drew, and also agree that at one time Acura had much nicer interiors. Imho Acura really has sadly lost their way. There is some good DNA in the brand, but what they produce now does not cut it. Glad Drew feels the same way I do about Acura SUV's. Simply unacceptable.

Thinking...this one will be fun.

Glad to see another Miata fan here, I also had a 67 Ford in one of my lists. Fantastic body style car.

Plus one has to ask the question as to how many premier supercars a brand should have to have. Ford has the GT. Lexus built the low production IFA, Cadillac built V16 wonders in the thirties, Audi builds the R8 and has a ton of other in family supercars via Bugatti and Porsche, and Benz has a ton of AMG oddities. Don't know that it is really fair to say that Audi is more of a premium brand because of its in group association with Porsche and Bugatti. But it is fair to say they are premium because of the R8 combined with a main line luxury name plate that is recognized as such.

Acura is not premium like BMW, Cadillac, Audi and Benz. Sit in an ILX or TLX after sitting in a Cadillac or Audi. The Acura pretty much feels like a tin can. Maybe you can invent automotive calculous of sorts to make them a premium brand, but Acura really has a lot of work to do. Plus, the MKX and MKT are probably nicer than the Acura products. I have gone on record saying that the Lexus SUV lineup needs help and is dated in the large SUV thread. The Acura lineup needs help also. The Asian car makers have been riding on reputation far too long when it comes to luxury SUV products.