A Horse With No Name

This in the maroon from the Conti thread please, with black wheels....hell yes...we finally have a vehicle we can agree on lock, stock and barrel. The Ecoboost is very, very good though. Amazing that domestics are building a twin turbo V6 with Aluminum body anything....a few years ago, that was the stuff of exotics.

At the same time, I once again will state that I admire his passion. Tired of people who are not passionate about cars....and wings is very definitely passionate about cars!

And this is my perception of Lincoln's place in the market. If you would like to quote marketing surveys that disprove this, go ahead, you have an infinite amount of allowable replies in this thread. Buick is not a luxury car. It is a mid priced car for middle class people. I do not really consider it an aspiration brand either in many ways. We have very different opinions of luxury. So what? Even if every one of us went out and bought a Conti the day they hit Lincoln showrooms...Lincoln would still have far more cars destroyed in transit to dealers than sold to C and G members. I do not expect us all to like the same things or agree on them. I would love to own a new Miata, Hardly think that is a car Wings would want to own. Nor would I expect him to. However, I think part of Luxury is brand perception and any sane person, including a salesman or sales manager in Lincoln dealership floor would say that Lincoln has a lot of work to do in that regard.

I could actually see that. And I have already said in this thread that I wish them the best in this endeavor. I wish no harm on them. They just do not build vehicles that meet my personal biases of what a luxury sedan should be like.

Hopefully this lasts until they start actually buying back cars, no one has gotten a signed offer from VW yet. It will be months before cash is actually in the hands of owners. Meanwhile, we need to modify the sales figure ticker here at C and G, because in 2017 VW will probably buy back more cars than it sells in North America. they have not even started to deal with the situation in Canada yet which is several tens of thousands more cars. European countries are wanting buy backs also, this will get ugly.

Depreciation is a wonderful thing. The fabulous 99-04 Mustangs are probably the best buy right now, as there is a good supply of clean used cars available, and prices are stupid cheap. Like the older Fox bodies, these will go up, especially special editions.

They already do!

I love this....! Would look good in the previous generation CTS_V wagon...now that would be badass!

As do I. They have a very nice Burgundy.

That might be really nice in some ways. Bring me a CTS-V though for the $ spent on the Conti. Different strokes for different folks.

Exactly.

At the very least he would be self aware enough to admit that he has that bias.

So is an attempt at civil dialogue, I guess.

Indeed!

Oh and Olds, the Acura NSX is interesting but ti s a low volume super car. Quoting it as an example is a little bit unfair because Acura's main lineup is really bland and has serious interior ergonomics and materials issues. I drive a Jetta SE, hardly a luxury car. But the TLX and ILX feel like a tin can by comparison, not a good way to market a luxury automobile. I could perhaps forgive that in the past with the chassis tuning issue, but not with the dulled down suspension. Existentially, what i really do like about Cadillac is that they seem to have a genuine sense of mission and identity, something I would say also about Lexus and Audi to a lesser extent. Acura needs to find this again, urgently. Even the Chevrolet lineup, my effing invisible flying spaghetti monster....even the Sonic is really, really good! Working on a college campus as I do it does me well to see how well GM and Ford are doing with the entry level stuff. Honda and Toyota had that market for far too long and got far too lazy....one hopes they have a bit of a rude awakening. And pardon me for getting off topic...back to Lincoln!

There are things I love about both cars. What an effing golden age we live in to have these! i remember the 1960's muscle cars, the 1970's and 80's Euro cars like the Porsches and Audi's and the cool Japanese Iron of the 1990's. If anyone would have told me, 15, 30, or 40 years ago about the golden age of today...i would have told them that they were stoned!

And Cadillac has done a much better job remaining an aspiration in the minds of buyers than Lincoln has, no questions asked. Probably because the good modern stuff started appearing a decade ago in the form of the first gen CTS and so forth. Plus, nothing touches the Escalade in terms of a large SUV. Buick is also not claiming to be a top tier luxury car like Lincoln is. Raise the claim, raise the standard.

I think the other thing I would look at with any luxury car is chassis tuning, and everyone gets dinged by me here, even Cadillac. Acura has really dumped down their suspension tuning as of late, Lexus has gone a bit softer in the suspension tuning, Cadillac CTS and ATS still could be more athletic, and BMW is no longer the ultimate driving machine. Benz is becoming more and more of a heavily dulled down old mans car in terms of driving dynamics also. The older TSX models from Acura, the SC 300 and 400 Luxury coupes by Lexus of 20 years ago, and about a billion previous BMW's and Audi's had excellent chassis feedback with an acceptable ride. I personally would rather own an E36 M3 or E46 M3 chassis BMW than any luxury car built today (other than maybe a CTS-V) for the chassis tuning alone. I will invite the wrath of Cmicasa and Drew on this one, but car to car, I think I would take the chassis feel on the E36M3 and E46M3 BMW over even the CTS-V. We never got around to what I disliked about the MKZ in the other thread, but C and driver was fairly critical of the chassis tuning. So when I see the Continental, I see a car that will likely not have suspension tuning like I like, and is visually heavy. But in the interest of fairness, I will list a laundry list of POSITIVES about the car. #1. love the integrated door handles with the belt line-really classy. #2. Side spear of chrome is well done and well placed, I like that accent. #3. Like the MKZ in the other thread, the continental looks fairly good from behind. It needs to lose some wight and gain some athleticism where the rear transitions to the sides, though. #4. As mentioned previously, I love the color choices Lincoln has. The Dark grey green on the Lincoln build site for the MKZ is to die for. #5. I think they did a really nice job picking up the Lincoln heritage with the interior. I can't pick up a specific detail that makes me think this way, but to me it feels like the have kept the heritage of the 60's and 70's cars alive while making the interior thoroughly modern. #6. While I would rate Chassis tuning very highly and materials section rather low, Lincoln has fantastic quality in terms of interior materials. #7. they really, really beat the piss out of Acura with interior ergonomics. Not really sure who designs Acura interiors, but they are the worst in terms of actual use. Would love to find the Klingotn or android that Honda has on staff up in Marysville to evaluate these. #8. I think keeping the Conti as fWD or AWD makes sense, as most drivers will do better with FWD in inclement weather, which is like half of the Untied States. #9. Would love to see how the twin turbo V6 works out over time, the Ecoboost in my neighbors and friends F-150's is fantastic. #10. Kind of intrigued with the black label marketing campaign-seems kind of rational, curious how this works out for them. Regards Chris

For me it is that I find the styling really, really heavy. I do not regard this as an anti Ford thing as I am very positive about other Ford vehicles here. I would love for them to succeed with this car, but Lincoln in my mind is really out of the conscious of people who are buying Luxury cars. Would love to see evidence to the contrary, but ask a hundred people to name a Luxury or upscale car they want to own, and 98 will name something like Acura, Buick, Lexus, or BMW before they will name Lincoln . ..and by the way, I am not negative on you personally in any way, Wings. I quite admire the way you stick up for your brand. Would be nice if more people here were that passionate.

Agreed! Glad you like the styling on this.

See the boss 302 Above!

V6 is very sweet indeed. And this is perhaps why i was so down on the Lincolns in the Lincoln threads. This is just so much more athletic and sleek in it styling that it isn't really even funny.

Boss 302 Mustang for #5, please.

i am going to steal a few of these. The NSX is a rare color and I have always wanted one, so I will choose this. Audi would be a no brainer. Probably one of my favorite cars in everything you all have posted. Wrangler Rubicon. I have actually thought about pulling the trigger on one of these used to replace the Jetta. One used to park next to one of my buildings on Campus, this is a fantastic real world example of a vehicle I would love to own. NC Miata, modified for autocross and high performance driving events.

I think it is more the tone of both your remarks and Olds remarks that is heating things up. FWIW I agree that the chrome on the car is tasteful. Back to discussing the automobile in question, please.