Spying: The Next Cadillac SRX or XT5

Hopefully they will fix the interior space for large people. Right now the current SRX is sure short on interior space for those over 6' tall.

The author should note the three vehicles referenced are the same size. Maybe they meant Terrain instead?

The author should note the three vehicles referenced are the same size. Maybe they meant Terrain instead?

No, I meant the Acadia is rumored to go smaller.. I just didn't mention it all. Thanks for pointing that out and keeping me honest.

So Cadillac will get another front wheel drive crossover based on the Equinox, you have to figure a smaller than SRX crossover is coming on front drive, so much for their rear wheel drive plans.

ALL luxury full-line manufacturers have a mix of RWD & FWD. People don't commonly put drive wheels as a leading consideration; witness the buyers for the 1-series BMW.

So Cadillac will get another front wheel drive crossover based on the Equinox, you have to figure a smaller than SRX crossover is coming on front drive, so much for their rear wheel drive plans.

SMK, I am a little disappointed too.  Having said that, FWD crossovers are where the money is.  Remember the RWD 1st-gen SRX?  I do; those did not sell as well as Cadillac or GM hoped.  So they followed the leader and the market: middle-aged women and the Lexus RX.  Now the SRX is 2nd in sales.  The new flagship Caddy and the CTS/ATS will take care of the RWD needs.  Besides, the BMW X3/X5 sell poorly by comparison to the RX/SRX.

So Cadillac will get another front wheel drive crossover based on the Equinox, you have to figure a smaller than SRX crossover is coming on front drive, so much for their rear wheel drive plans.

No, not based on the Equinox. The new Equinox is not out yet and this is a new platform.  The Equinox may be based on the Cadillac in the future, but not the way around that you're suggesting.

I have no problem with Cadillac getting platforms first and then Chevy gets to pick up a variant on it later.

^ Add to that when a new platform is developed, it's no longer done on a Divisional level, but at Corporate. IE: there is no 'Chevy platform' and as Drew insinuates, it's just as valid to say (not that there's any point to this sort of thing other than trolling) 'The Tahoe is riding on the Escalade platform'.

If Chi is scalable to difference sizes then it could replace both the Lambdas and the Thetas.  The long wheel base Chi would be Enclave, the xT5 and other 3 row crossovers.  A short wheelbase Chi could be Equinox, Terrain xT4.  Similar to how they have a small and large Epsilon platform.

But then you have an XT5 SUV that has no relation to a CT5 sedan.  So their pointless naming scheme still doesn't make sense if they do that.  And do they really think they can compete with the Germans with some front wheel drive crossovers.  Lincoln and Acura have gone hard at that segment, and it has kept them alive, but it hasn't made them relevant.  And how do you do a V-series of a front drive crossover? 

Could do a VSport... xts has a VSport

I mean I guess they did an AMG on the GLA, but that is a compact car, I think the length is less than a Corvette's.    They could do a V-sport with 400 hp but Cadillac won't have a 500+ hp SUV to compete with the Cayenne turbo, the Range Rover Supercharged, the X5 M or the AMG's.  Then you consider a Mercedes-Maybach GL600 is likely coming to do battle with the Bentley SUV, a Maserati SUV is in the works and Rolls and Lamborghini might make an SUV.  The Escalade is still one of the top dog SUVs (at least in terms of price), but there could be a whole slew of $100,000+ SUVs hitting the market that make the Escalade look 2nd tier.   Then do they risk it becoming like the Fleetwood/Deville of the SUV world, riding high for a few generations, until the more powerful, better handling, more luxurious imports came along and stole the ultra rich buyers. 

The Escalade is selling well, and no doubt a profit god for GM, but it is still a fancy Tahoe, and it hasn't really been challenged by anyone else in the past 10 years other than the Navigator which has gotten really dated, and the Mercedes GL which outsold the Escalade most of the past 5 years.  Put 5 or 6 Euro luxury brands in that high end SUV segment and the Escalade is in for a battle.

You're really trolling all over the map.  The car we're discussing is the XT5 which is an SRX replacement.  It competes (currently) in the X3/GLK price and size segment. I don't care that it is bigger on the outside than those two, it is the same size inside. ... and more importantly, neither do buyers because the SRX outsells both of those models each month.  For a while there it even outsold both of those models combined while maintaining that same price.

As for the Escalade, I've driven it.  It is fantastic. It is probably the best Cadillac currently made. I've also driven the Range Rover and the MB GL350 diesel.  I would pick the Cadillac over those two each and every day of the week and not feel a second of remorse over that decision.   The Cadillac is simple better overall.   The few I've seen driving around Pittsburgh cause a twinge of jealousy at the driver.... I've never gotten that from the GL.

If the CTS becomes CT5, you'd think that the crossover with a 5 in it would cost more than a sedan, so that puts the XT5 at $50,000 base,  If they make an XT5, there is probably going to be at least and XT3 and XT4, maybe even XT2.  Hard to price the XT5 at $35k base like the SRX, how do you get crossovers below that?

Unless the plan is to do an XT3 at $33k to compete with the GLA, MKC and Lexus NX, an XT5 at $40k to compete with the MKC and RX350 and then an XT7 (lambda size) crossover at $55k to fill the gap currently between the SRX and Escalade.  That plan also gives Cadillac 3 front wheel drive crossovers (on platforms no doubt shared with Chevy), when they claimed RWD and independence was their future.  But the XT5 doesn't look big enough to have a 3rd row, and it looks front wheel drive, which probably means Lexus RX and Lincoln MKX pricing.  You can't get RWD money with a FWD car.

Sure you can. Cadillac does it with the SRX, Infiniti does it with the QXPathfinder and Audi does it with everything. And then of course the Lexus RX.

I expect the XT5 to move up in base price a little.

This is a luxury segment that really doesn't seem to care about FWD/RWD because they are mostly ordered with AWD.

Cadillac is going to the customer's home.  They are following the customer.  That is how sales are rung up.  Purists (like myself sometimes) may protest... but at the end of the day, Cadillac needs to be able to sell some vehicles to survive.  They cannot afford to be some abstract entity up high on a mountain.

I think this platform (C1xx or Chi)  will have a LWB and SWB version.  The LWB will replace the Buick Enclave and Chevrolet Traverse and maybe a new large Cadillac crossover.  The SWB will replace the GMC Acadia and Cadillac SRX (to be renamed XT5). This C1xx platform will also replace the Epsilon platform for cars.  There is a smaller D1xx platform that will replace Delta and be used for crossovers.  What is unclear now is whether Equinox will go to the SWB C1xx or go to the D1xx platform. If Equinox went to the SBW C1xx, then there would be a new Chevrolet on D1xx.  I guess the GMC Terrain, Buick Envision, and maybe a new small Cadillac would go on D1xx. This is just my understanding which could be quite wrong.

Sounds right, but that makes Cadillac's entire crossover/SUV lineup shared on Chevy/Buick platforms and it is the 80s all over again with 3 versions of the same product, and the Buick is a little nicer than a Chevy but with the same engine, the Cadillac is nicer than a Buick and with more power.  Why wouldn't you build crossovers off the Cadillac Alpha and Omega platforms?

Probably because it isn't necessary. The market has spoken... they like the SRX more than the X3 and GLK

It may outsell them for now, maybe the FWD crossovers always will, but Lexus, Lincoln, Acura and Cadillac have to sell a mid-size vehicle at the price BMW and Mercedes sell compacts.  The Lexus ES350 outsells the CTS, does that mean the CTS should move to FWD and have a price cut to $37,000 because that is where the crowd goes?  The real problem the brands like Acura and Lincoln and to a lesser degree Cadillac and Infiniti have, is that too much of the product is too similar to the mass market vehicle and the brand image gets hurt.  Over time that 2nd tier image sticks and it gets harder and harder to compete.  It also creates a culture of build what is "good enough" instead of build the best, and there are too many brands and too much competition to just build "good enough" products.

No. For the 99th time. The SRX is the same size interior as the GLK and X3. Buyers of this segment seem to prefer the FWD models

No. For the 99th time. The SRX is the same size interior as the GLK and X3. Buyers of this segment seem to prefer the FWD models

But the RX and MKX are not as small as a GLK or X3, that is why Lincoln and Lexus both put an SUV below that.  And what does it say about Cadillac that their 190 inch long SUV has the interior space of a 178 inch long German SUV.  That is poor packaging.

Buyers of $30-40,000 crossovers prefer FWD because they don't know any better.  I'd suggest that the XT5 should be more of a $50-70,000 crossover with a 550 hp V-series.  Then a $35-50,000 XT3 can be sold below it with a 420 hp V-series model.  Although Mercedes is making a 470 hp GLK, and they'll have a plug in hybrid that outdoes the RX400h in efficiency.  Give it some time and the Germans will turn that crossover segment to their favor.   In the 1980s and 90s Cadillac pushed front wheel drive because that was where the volume was, then the Germans turned luxury to rear wheel drive and took all the volume and profit, leaving Cadillac, Lincoln and Acura in the dust.  Cadillac has been trying since 2003 to catch up.  So are they going to make the same mistake on crossovers?

The XT5 couldn't charge that price unless it moves up on interior room. That is X5 territory.

99.99999999% of buyers don't care about "packaging" as long as the vehicle meets their needs. Even enthusiasts don't care.  You are the only one on a car enthusiast forum who cares that the SRX is bigger on the outside than its competition.

The MKC is more of a tweener.  It feels only marginally bigger inside than my Encore (and most of that room is in the trunk).

 

No. For the 99th time. The SRX is the same size interior as the GLK and X3. Buyers of this segment seem to prefer the FWD models

But the RX and MKX are not as small as a GLK or X3, that is why Lincoln and Lexus both put an SUV below that.  And what does it say about Cadillac that their 190 inch long SUV has the interior space of a 178 inch long German SUV.  That is poor packaging.

 

No, the reason the NX and MKC crossover exist are due to the likes of the X1 and GLA

 

No. For the 99th time. The SRX is the same size interior as the GLK and X3. Buyers of this segment seem to prefer the FWD models

But the RX and MKX are not as small as a GLK or X3, that is why Lincoln and Lexus both put an SUV below that.  And what does it say about Cadillac that their 190 inch long SUV has the interior space of a 178 inch long German SUV.  That is poor packaging.

 

Buyers of $30-40,000 crossovers prefer FWD because they don't know any better.  I'd suggest that the XT5 should be more of a $50-70,000 crossover with a 550 hp V-series.  Then a $35-50,000 XT3 can be sold below it with a 420 hp V-series model.  Although Mercedes is making a 470 hp GLK, and they'll have a plug in hybrid that outdoes the RX400h in efficiency.  Give it some time and the Germans will turn that crossover segment to their favor.   In the 1980s and 90s Cadillac pushed front wheel drive because that was where the volume was, then the Germans turned luxury to rear wheel drive and took all the volume and profit, leaving Cadillac, Lincoln and Acura in the dust.  Cadillac has been trying since 2003 to catch up.  So are they going to make the same mistake on crossovers?

 

So then since you cannot win  an argument on your German love of MB / BMW on back seat space since Cadillac has superior rear seat space in comparison to the German version you move to now attacking the added length of the SRX so that the extra protection is bad since your German version do not have it!

I don't really care about back seat space, that was never a concern of mine.  I just wonder why the SRX with 190 inch overall length, which is bigger than a Lexus RX350, bigger than a Lincoln MKX, has interior space like a 179 inch long GLK or Lincoln MKC.   The SRX doesn't even compete with the Germans, it competes with Lincoln and Lexus because mid-size fwd crossovers at $40k are a hot item.  If you want a mid-sze German SUV you haveto spend $60k once the options are on there, and most crossover buyers are clueless as to RWD vs FWD or 8-speed vs 6 speed, or what BMW's regen braking does or what Mercedes Airmatic does, etc.  And even if they understood it, they wouldn't pay extra to get it.

But since Cadillac is revamping their crossover lineup and starting new, I question why an XT5 on a FWD platform shared with Buick/Chevy/GMC, because I'd assume they will be charging Lexus RX money at $40k, when Cadillac's CT5 sedan might be $50k.  Seems odd, and XT5 and CT5 would have no relation at all.  The whole plan doesn't make sense.

The plan makes sense to me because that XT5 and the Escalade will probably be the biggest money makers Cadillac will have for several years.  

But word names are bad, so the Escalade should be renamed XT8.

mercedes SL stands for 'super light', yet that tiny 2-seater weighs up to 4300 lbs. 

Good luck trying to make perfect apple-pie order of car naming practices.

So Cadillac will get another front wheel drive crossover based on the Equinox, you have to figure a smaller than SRX crossover is coming on front drive, so much for their rear wheel drive plans.

It won't matter that much in a car like the SRX/XT5. I'm more disappointed this isn't on Alpha because I think GM should try to leverage out the Alpha variants as much as possible to give it volume (Omega is a mystery in that regard as well, assuming it isn't really a scaled up Alpha) and maybe for image reasons down the line. Maybe Alpha wasn't designed to accomodate any CUV/SUV variants?... Anyway, for now this C1XX CUV to replace the SRX and a D2XX CUV to slot below it can be made into excellent entries in their segments; Cadillac just needs to really sweat the details.