I would not be surprised with the merger if this brand name dies again in the next 10 years. It should have never been brought back. Just left in the history books. Current product is so unreliable.

Italians need to stick to boats and cloths, auto's is not their strength.

Anybody still think the future default is to put alfa platforms under Dodge sheet metal?

1 minute ago, balthazar said:

Anybody still think the future default is to put alfa platforms under Dodge sheet metal?

They spend a billion on that platform, they're not going to just throw it away when Georgio, and the LX, and the Maseratis are the only RWD car platforms in all of PSA and FCA combined. 

I think they'll spread Georgio around as much as they can to recup their costs on it. 

2 hours ago, balthazar said:

Anybody still think the future default is to put alfa platforms under Dodge sheet metal?

I honestly think it could be a great thing.

Depending on a couple of things though.If the Giorgio platform could be scaled up to Dodge Charger/Challenger midsize(fullsize?) levels because as is, its a compact.  At best, its a tweener compact but not as big as a midsize and that is no bueno for Challenger and Charger (and 300) 

The Maserati Quattroporte and GrandTurismo could easily be platform mates with Dodge Challenger/Charger and Chrysler 300 and the key to that is if the  Giorgio platform  could be scaled up in size.

The Giorgio platform has got some  pretty nice performance oriented bones. I imagine Auburn Hills engineers doing wonders for a Challenger with this platform.  As of now, like now now...this engineers are up to the task to making the Challenger a track oriented car to compete with the Mustang GT350 and Camaro 1LE. Challenger ACR is the next Challenger to be unveiled and that is with the porky platform its currently on.  

2 things Im cringing at is:

1. sedans are not exactly the "in" transportation 

2. I do not know if Giorgio is robust enough for Challenger/Charger duties.  I mean, people that own the V8 versions of those cars, beat the crap outta them. I mean...American Muscle and all...its what you do with American Muscle, yo. 

I do like the look of these Alfa Giulia's front end, the triangle grille makes it look like it should have a rotary in it. Obviously we all know it doesn't, but a unique look none-the-less. Too bad they're so unreliable.

10 hours ago, dfelt said:

I would not be surprised with the merger if this brand name dies again in the next 10 years. It should have never been brought back. Just left in the history books. Current product is so unreliable.

Italians need to stick to boats and cloths, auto's is not their strength.

What about Ferrari? I think they're mostly pretty good. Lambo's are kind of fireballs, but the Prancing Horse is pretty sweet. 

I hope this means the American brands will receive funding assistance.

18 hours ago, USA-1 said:

I do like the look of these Alfa Giulia's front end, the triangle grille makes it look like it should have a rotary in it. Obviously we all know it doesn't, but a unique look none-the-less. Too bad they're so unreliable.

What about Ferrari? I think they're mostly pretty good. Lambo's are kind of fireballs, but the Prancing Horse is pretty sweet. 

Ferrari is better than it was, but when you have to give a 7yr bumper to bumper warranty, I would question the reliability and it looks like edmonds, KBB and others also question the long term reliability of the auto's and maintenance costs. Not an auto for those with tight pocket books for sure to buy used.

1 hour ago, dfelt said:

Ferrari is better than it was, but when you have to give a 7yr bumper to bumper warranty, I would question the reliability and it looks like edmonds, KBB and others also question the long term reliability of the auto's and maintenance costs. Not an auto for those with tight pocket books for sure to buy used.

Kinda like the opposite end of the spectrum in cost with Hyundai/KIA with an obvious reason to have a 10yr. 100k B to B warranty?  

22 hours ago, USA-1 said:

Kinda like the opposite end of the spectrum in cost with Hyundai/KIA with an obvious reason to have a 10yr. 100k B to B warranty?  

Hyundai and Kia offer a 5 year 60K warranty. The 10/100K is just for the powertrain. 

3 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

Hyundai and Kia offer a 5 year 60K warranty. The 10/100K is just for the powertrain. 

10-4. My point is, there's a reason they offer the 10yr/100k for even just the powertrain to move them off the lots. I know people who have purchased them and lets just say they were glad to have the 10/100, although it's not transferable to the second owners and on where it drops to 5yr/60k for all warranty work. 

14 hours ago, USA-1 said:

10-4. My point is, there's a reason they offer the 10yr/100k for even just the powertrain to move them off the lots. I know people who have purchased them and lets just say they were glad to have the 10/100, although it's not transferable to the second owners and on where it drops to 5yr/60k for all warranty work. 

Warranties like what Hyundai and Kia offer have zero bearing on whether the car is actually reliable. Example, GM offers a 5 year/60K powertrain warranty while Toyota offers a 6 year/60K warranty. Now, based on your logic, does that mean that the extra year on the Toyota makes it more unreliable than GM? The simple answer to that is “no”. 

12 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Warranties like what Hyundai and Kia offer have zero bearing on whether the car is actually reliable. Example, GM offers a 5 year/60K powertrain warranty while Toyota offers a 6 year/60K warranty. Now, based on your logic, does that mean that the extra year on the Toyota makes it more unreliable than GM? The simple answer to that is “no”. 

GM stands behind their vehicles with a fully transferable warranty to every owner 5yr./60k powertrain included unlike Hyundai, even Hyundai admits the 10/100 is really what makes the metal move not their poor reliability rating.

Largest Recall in modern U.S. history "Unintended Acceleration" with 7.5M 2009 -2011 vehicles sold in the U.S. was with TOYOTA...you do the math...

4 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

GM stands behind their vehicles with a fully transferable warranty to every owner 5yr./60k powertrain included unlike Hyundai, even Hyundai admits the 10/100 is really what makes the metal move not their poor reliability rating.

Largest Recall in modern U.S. history "Unintended Acceleration" with 7.5M 2009 -2011 vehicles sold in the U.S. was with TOYOTA...you do the math...

@surreal1272 Also, I proudly post what I drive, like most on here. Funny that you don't...

1 hour ago, USA-1 said:

GM stands behind their vehicles with a fully transferable warranty to every owner 5yr./60k powertrain included unlike Hyundai, even Hyundai admits the 10/100 is really what makes the metal move not their poor reliability rating.

Largest Recall in modern U.S. history "Unintended Acceleration" with 7.5M 2009 -2011 vehicles sold in the U.S. was with TOYOTA...you do the math...

I'll see your one Toyota example and raise you GM ignitions.

"30 million cars worldwide recalled; paid compensation for 124 deaths; forfeited $900 million to the United States."-Wiki and every other source regarding those recalls.

Also, as it has been discussed a million times here, recalls do not equal reliability. Year after year, despite those recalls, Toyota and Lexus have ranked at or near the top for a few decades now. The fact that most of their lineup is stale is irrelevant. Do the math.

1 hour ago, USA-1 said:

@surreal1272 Also, I proudly post what I drive, like most on here. Funny that you don't...

Which has ZERO to do with the discussion at hand. You also haven't been here for a while because I have posted work i've done on my current car (my little runabout '96 RAV4) and posted on my previous car as well (my '06 Dodge Magnum). Stop assuming $h! you can't back up and stick to the subject next time. Nice cyber stalking though. Save yourself the trouble next time and just take a drive around the Peoria area. Stalk the old fashioned way next time. Here's the most recent post about the RAV4 stalker.

4 hours ago, surreal1272 said:

I'll see your one Toyota example and raise you GM ignitions.

 

"30 million cars worldwide recalled; paid compensation for 124 deaths; forfeited $900 million to the United States."-Wiki and every other source regarding those recalls.

Also, as it has been discussed a million times here, recalls do not equal reliability. Year after year, despite those recalls, Toyota and Lexus have ranked at or near the top for a few decades now. The fact that most of their lineup is stale is irrelevant. Do the math.

 

 

Which has ZERO to do with the discussion at hand. You also haven't been here for a while because I have posted work i've done on my current car (my little runabout '96 RAV4) and posted on my previous car as well (my '06 Dodge Magnum). Stop assuming $h! you can't back up and stick to the subject next time. Nice cyber stalking though. Save yourself the trouble next time and just take a drive around the Peoria area. Stalk the old fashioned way next time. Here's the most recent post about the RAV4 stalker.

 

 

I stayed on the subject of Hyundai you changed it to GM and Toyota.

"Custom" toyota RAV4 throw away? Seriously? Quite the classic, classic waste of time and money. Quite the dedicated love for toyota you have there. LMAO!!

WTF? "cyber stalking you?" Dream on. Everyone on here looks at other peoples' cars, it's part of what the site is about you freakin' weirdo. 

To put this back on track about Hyundai's 10yr/100k new buyer warranty and the fact that they lean on it to sell and do not transfer it to every other owner speaks volumes.

Hyundai does not have a quality or reliable image or loyal owners like Chevy or Ford here in the U.S.

1 hour ago, USA-1 said:

I stayed on the subject of Hyundai you changed it to GM and Toyota.

"Custom" toyota RAV4 throw away? Seriously? Quite the classic, classic waste of time and money. Quite the dedicated love for toyota you have there. LMAO!!

 

WTF? "cyber stalking you?" Dream on. Everyone on here looks at other peoples' cars, it's part of what the site is about you freakin' weirdo. 

You really have a reading comprehension and ego problem. My cyberstalking comment was meant with obvious sarcasm and a joke but here you are getting bent out of shape about it, so much so that you even insult what I drive. It’s pathetic and utterly typical of the posts you have made to me and others whenever we say something you don’t agree with. 
 

You also think that I’m veering off the subject with my GM and Toyota reference while YOU are the one who made reference to Hyundai and Kia on a damn Alfa thread. Double standard much? 
 

BTW, because my worth is not decided by what I drive (unlike yourself apparently), I am perfectly fine with my old Yoda and it’s 267K miles and being generally bulletproof. It has not jack$h! to do with any affinity for Toyota. I’ve owned everything from Toyota, to Chevrolet, to Dodge, and then some. Maybe if you weren’t so insecure in yourself and lashing out at others (as well as insulting their vehicle choices), you’d see how utterly full of $h! your are and understand that some folks don’t need approval in regards to what they drive. 
 

Besides, keep your twelve year old insults straight. A few weeks ago I was a RAM fan and now I’m a Toyota fan. Which is it Sally?

1 hour ago, USA-1 said:

To put this back on track about Hyundai's 10yr/100k new buyer warranty and the fact that they lean on it to sell and do not transfer it to every other owner speaks volumes.

Hyundai does not have a quality or reliable image or loyal owners like Chevy or Ford here in the U.S.

Loyalty? Domestics have lost market share for decades in the US. Outside of the full size truck market, there is no overall loyalty to domestics here especially when one sees the history of them taking a royal $h! on “loyal” owners loyalty for so long. 

1 hour ago, USA-1 said:

To put this back on track about Hyundai's 10yr/100k new buyer warranty and the fact that they lean on it to sell and do not transfer it to every other owner speaks volumes.

Hyundai does not have a quality or reliable image or loyal owners like Chevy or Ford here in the U.S.

Chevrolet loyal owners?

The Impala once sold 1 million copies per year...

The Impala has died 3 deaths... 

From Citation II to Celebrity to Lumina to Impala.  From Chevette to Cavalier to Cobalt to Cruze...and Cruze is dead? I think?...all because the Japanese (and now....Koreans) keep all the loyal Chevrolet owners to themselves...

The Chevrolet fullsized pick-up truck is now in 3rd place in sales behind the big bad Dodge!  A lifetime, the Dodge was in 3rd place.  

Autoline Detroit today just said that the French might want to put Alfa Romeo and Maserati on the block if the merger is going to go through. 

These two brands are bleeding money and they deem them not to be worth the effort trying to promote them since their sales are dismal as well...

just click on that link. I hope it starts when John McElroy  is talking about it.   

https://youtu.be/NmUdAWdb6ew?t=177

2 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

You really have a reading comprehension and ego problem. My cyberstalking comment was meant with obvious sarcasm and a joke but here you are getting bent out of shape about it, so much so that you even insult what I drive. It’s pathetic and utterly typical of the posts you have made to me and others whenever we say something you don’t agree with. 
 

You also think that I’m veering off the subject with my GM and Toyota reference while YOU are the one who made reference to Hyundai and Kia on a damn Alfa thread. Double standard much? 
 

BTW, because my worth is not decided by what I drive (unlike yourself apparently), I am perfectly fine with my old Yoda and it’s 267K miles and being generally bulletproof. It has not jack$h! to do with any affinity for Toyota. I’ve owned everything from Toyota, to Chevrolet, to Dodge, and then some. Maybe if you weren’t so insecure in yourself and lashing out at others (as well as insulting their vehicle choices), you’d see how utterly full of $h! your are and understand that some folks don’t need approval in regards to what they drive. 

Cry me a river. That's why you were triggered right? Stating it several times? Sure back track on being an ass because you can't erase after you've calmed down from your apparent tantrum haha. 

Funny I'm the one with two college degrees including an MS yet you think you know about my knowledge? That's some funny sh!t right there! It's selective reading because I detect BS and don't waste my time with it.  

I was comparing warranties with vehicles on opposite sides of the spectrum and you went further off with other manf., hypocritical much?

I've seen where you and your buddy go off on others on here that don't agree with you, so it's you with an ego problem guy.  

12 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

Cry me a river. That's why you were triggered right? Stating it several times? Sure back track on being an ass because you can't erase after you've calmed down from your apparent tantrum haha. 

Funny I'm the one with two college degrees including an MS yet you think you know about my knowledge? That's some funny sh!t right there! It's selective reading because I detect BS and don't waste my time with it.  

I was comparing warranties with vehicles on opposite sides of the spectrum and you went further off with other manf., hypocritical much?

I've seen where you and your buddy go off on others on here that don't agree with you, so it's you with an ego problem guy.  

Just how delusional are you? You act like I’m the one that was “triggered” but it was you that deflected the discussion into personal BS like I why didn’t post about my ride. You have made one asinine assumption after another. What ironic in your post here is that everything you are trying to project onto me describes how you’ve acted since you started posting again a few months ago. If you don’t see the shear irony in what you just said, then there is no hope for you. Your fragile little ego got popped and you have to take it out on others with personal jabs and insults about others rides. I have no said any of that so again, the only triggered ego here is you and you have proven that ten fold. 

21 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Chevrolet loyal owners?

The Impala once sold 1 million copies per year...

The Impala has died 3 deaths... 

From Citation II to Celebrity to Lumina to Impala.  From Chevette to Cavalier to Cobalt to Cruze...and Cruze is dead? I think?...all because the Japanese (and now....Koreans) keep all the loyal Chevrolet owners to themselves...

The Chevrolet fullsized pick-up truck is now in 3rd place in sales behind the big bad Dodge!  A lifetime, the Dodge was in 3rd place.  

 

Exactly. Those who actually know the long and sometimes sordid history of the domestics understand how absolutely laugh out loud dumb it is to talk about any of them being loyal to their customers. They, like every other car company out there, are loyal to their shareholders only. These things are easier to see when one is able to step outside that fanboy bubble that some choose to live in. 

31 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

You really have a reading comprehension and ego problem. My cyberstalking comment was meant with obvious sarcasm and a joke but here you are getting bent out of shape about it, so much so that you even insult what I drive. It’s pathetic and utterly typical of the posts you have made to me and others whenever we say something you don’t agree with. 
 

You also think that I’m veering off the subject with my GM and Toyota reference while YOU are the one who made reference to Hyundai and Kia on a damn Alfa thread. Double standard much? 
 

BTW, because my worth is not decided by what I drive (unlike yourself apparently), I am perfectly fine with my old Yoda and it’s 267K miles and being generally bulletproof. It has not jack$h! to do with any affinity for Toyota. I’ve owned everything from Toyota, to Chevrolet, to Dodge, and then some. Maybe if you weren’t so insecure in yourself and lashing out at others (as well as insulting their vehicle choices), you’d see how utterly full of $h! your are and understand that some folks don’t need approval in regards to what they drive. 
 

Besides, keep your twelve year old insults straight. A few weeks ago I was a RAM fan and now I’m a Toyota fan. Which is it Sally?

 

Loyalty? Domestics have lost market share for decades in the US. Outside of the full size truck market, there is no overall loyalty to domestics here especially when one sees the history of them taking a royal $h! on “loyal” owners loyalty for so long. 

I know you are pretty F'ing confused. Yet you've called me a GM fanboy, but I've stated that I like the look of or build quality of other makes and models and have owned other makes and models so you might want to figure it out yourself Nelly. 🤣

Only thing the Asian brands have taken over are cheap throw away cars. GM knows there's no money in them so letting most of the cars die is a good idea. Silverado/Sierra, Tahoe/Yukon, Corvette, Camaro, Malibu and full Cadillac lineup, yeah no problems for the future. Plenty of loyal buyers, always will be.  

9 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

Just how delusional are you? You act like I’m the one that was “triggered” but it was you that deflected the discussion into personal BS like I why didn’t post about my ride. You have made one asinine assumption after another. What ironic in your post here is that everything you are trying to project onto me describes how you’ve acted since you started posting again a few months ago. If you don’t see the shear irony in what you just said, then there is no hope for you. Your fragile little ego got popped and you have to take it out on others with personal jabs and insults about others rides. I have no said any of that so again, the only triggered ego here is you and you have proven that ten fold. 

Exactly. Those who actually know the long and sometimes sordid history of the domestics understand how absolutely laugh out loud dumb it is to talk about any of them being loyal to their customers. They, like every other car company out there, are loyal to their shareholders only. These things are easier to see when one is able to step outside that fanboy bubble that some choose to live in. 

Again a long paragraph of triggered. You started with the 12 yo. comments like you've done to others on here so it's not me with the problem, that's clear. Did you get the notoriety you needed now? LMAO! 

Other way around genius. Loyalty is the customer base like with all long time manufacturers. It makes sense that you wouldn't understand.

20 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

 

Only thing the Asian brands have taken over are cheap throw away cars. GM knows there's no money in them so letting most of the cars die is a good idea. Silverado/Sierra, Tahoe/Yukon, Corvette, Camaro, Malibu and full Cadillac lineup, yeah no problems for the future. Plenty of loyal buyers, always will be.  

Throw away cars?

Id say these are/were bread and butter cars...GM went through all their brand's versions of J Cars and the FWD A Platform and N Platform that spawned Grand Ams and Calais and  Achievas and Aleros and Corsicas and Tempests and Skylarks and Somersets and still couldnt dent Corolla and Civic loyalty.  

W-Body?  Gone!  Epsilon successor. Gone! 

Pontiac and Oldsmobile?  Gone! 

Malibu is gonna die too...rumors...

The CamCords and the Sonata/Optima clean the Malibu's clock.   The Fusion is going away and even if people are aware that the Fusion is going away, they are NOT buying Malibus...

Camaro?   No word yet on a replacement. Project for a successor model has been at best case scenario pushed back and/or postponed...worst case scenario is another death for Camaro as plans have not been made...yet. Just that no new Camaro is planned for anytime soon...

Silverado sales are falling. Ram trucks have taken over their spot.  I suspect its the ugliness of that truck's face. But Im afraid if they make the Silverado a looker again, I think the people will not be back. I think those sales lost to Ram, those people will stay with Ram. 

Sorry man.  I fear for CHEVROLET at the moment.  Corvette will do fine. For now.  But when the novelty of mid-engine wears off, will the peeps be back for another 60 years as they were for the front engine, rear wheel drive version? 

16 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Throw away cars?

Id say these are/were bread and butter cars...GM went through all their brand's versions of J Cars and the N Platform that spawned Grand Ams and Achievas and Aleros and Corsicas and Tempests and Skylarks and Somersets and still couldnt dent Corolla and Civic loyalty.  

W-Body?  Gone!  Epsilon successor. Gone! 

Pontiac and Oldsmobile?  Gone! 

Malibu is gonna die too...rumors...

The CamCords and the Sonata/Optima clean the Malibu's clock.   The Fusion is going away and even if people are aware that the Fusion is going away, they are NOT buying Malibus...

Camaro?   No word yet on a replacement. Project for a successor model has been at best case scenario pushed back and/or postponed...worst case scenario is another death for Camaro as plans have not been made...yet. Just that no new Camaro is planned for anytime soon...

Silverado sales are falling. Ram trucks have taken over their spot.  I suspect its the ugliness of that truck's face. But Im afraid if they make the Silverado a looker again, I think the people will not be back. I think those sales lost to Ram, those people will stay with Ram. 

Sorry man.  I fear for CHEVROLET at the moment.  Corvette will do fine. For now.  But when the novelty of mid-engine wears off, will the peeps be back for another 60 years as they were for the front engine, rear wheel drive version? 

 

 

 

GM and Chevrolet are fine, great balance sheet of cash on hand and record profit and regular all new or updated trucks, SUV's and Caddy's out for next several months and years. All over for FCA once the new Ram buyers figure out that all they bought was an unreliable Chrysler wearing lipstick. New GM truck interiors coming 2021 because GM does listen to their customers. Only trim that needed some additional high end trim are the high end models High Country and Denali, lower models are fine.

Worry more about FCA needing a merger to stay afloat and Ford for that matter with majorly botched new launches of important SUV's like Explorer/Aviator.