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  • William Maley
    William Maley

    Cadillac Plans To Expand The VSport Lineup

    William Maley

    Staff Writer - CheersandGears.com

    August 27, 2013

    Back at the introduction of the 2014 Cadillac CTS at the New York Auto Show in April, Cadillac introduced a new trim called VSport. VSport offers unique styling and performance tweaks to a model. A few months back, Cadillac announced that the XTS would be getting the VSport trim as well.

    The Detroit News reports that more Cadillacs will be coming with VSport trim. Executives say VSport offers buyers the styling and performance they want without going to a full V model.

    “In the future you can look to us to expand this idea to additional models, additional vehicle models, and also using the branding for performance or sport appearance-related options and accessories,” said Hampden Tener, Cadillac’s product director.

    Source: The Detroit News

    William Maley is a staff writer for Cheers & Gears. He can be reached at [email protected] or you can follow him on twitter at @realmudmonster.

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    V-Sport will become essentially what M-Packages are at BMW; V-Series will match the M models. The idea of introducing it exclusively with the TT V6 in the CTS gives me hope that as the TT V6 eventually expands to other trim levels, V-Sport models will always have an extra bit of 'edge' over the remaining trims.

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    I am not sure I would have used V twice here. It reeks of when Olds used Cutlass on nearly everything they had with 4 wheels.

    Leave the V Series as the V Series as it has established a strong name equity and then just make this package a Sport or another letter Sport.

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    I am not sure I would have used V twice here. It reeks of when Olds used Cutlass on nearly everything they had with 4 wheels.

    Leave the V Series as the V Series as it has established a strong name equity and then just make this package a Sport or another letter Sport.

    I'll have to disagree. V-Series is a recognized brand and BMW trades on the M moniker for an appearance package, just like Mercedes has the 'AMG Styling Package' on certain models.

    People covet these packages, often for their looks and the association with high-performance models. I think it'd be a bad move to call the VSport anything else.

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    But the V-Sport isn't just a trim... it gives real performance advantage though not the max level. It also allows for performance versions of models that will never get a V-Series line like SRX, XTS, and Escalade.

    I bet an SRX V-Sport would be a real hoot to drive and give Cadillac a leg up on the X3 which doesn't have an M package.

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    I'll have to disagree. V-Series is a recognized brand and BMW trades on the M moniker for an appearance package, just like Mercedes has the 'AMG Styling Package' on certain models.

    People covet these packages, often for their looks and the association with high-performance models. I think it'd be a bad move to call the VSport anything else.

    And Audi S-line (they don't have RS-line to my knowledge) and Lexus F-Sport.

    But the V-Sport isn't just a trim... it gives real performance advantage though not the max level. It also allows for performance versions of models that will never get a V-Series line like SRX, XTS, and Escalade.

    I bet an SRX V-Sport would be a real hoot to drive and give Cadillac a leg up on the X3 which doesn't have an M package.

    Therein lies the difference. That's what would make the Vsport line much more like the Audi S models (A4 S-line still has the I4T, whereas the S4 gets the V6S and 122 hp).

    I do understand the objections though... the name makes it a little trickier. Only a little.

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    DOTJ-90Calais-15-550x412.jpg

    "International Series" was always my favorite!!!!!!!!!!! LMAO

    or was "Eurosport" my favorite?

    I am waiting for GM to come out with something called 'techline' trim.......

    Funny to see a Portuguese flag there as we haven't seen Oldsmobile for sale here ever since my dad was young (he was born 1943) :smilewide:

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    DOTJ-90Calais-15-550x412.jpg

    "International Series" was always my favorite!!!!!!!!!!! LMAO

    or was "Eurosport" my favorite?

    I am waiting for GM to come out with something called 'techline' trim.......

    Funny to see a Portuguese flag there as we haven't seen Oldsmobile for sale here ever since my dad was young (he was born 1943) :smilewide:

    GM was in a delusional phase in the '80s...they thought by painting the trim black on the mediocre FWD A-bodies made them European...

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    I am not sure I would have used V twice here. It reeks of when Olds used Cutlass on nearly everything they had with 4 wheels.

    Leave the V Series as the V Series as it has established a strong name equity and then just make this package a Sport or another letter Sport.

    I'll have to disagree. V-Series is a recognized brand and BMW trades on the M moniker for an appearance package, just like Mercedes has the 'AMG Styling Package' on certain models.

    People covet these packages, often for their looks and the association with high-performance models. I think it'd be a bad move to call the VSport anything else.

    They could have created two distinct performance models that stand on their own and do not have to feel like one is the second best as one if beyond the best.

    I also have seen many already people on the auto web sites are mistaking the V Sport as the new V Series. The GM guys have is handled but the non GM guys are missing the point and these are the people GM wants to attract.

    All I ask is to give the V Sport its own Identity and leave the V to the V series.

    But what is done already is done and it is not going to change.

    I guess they could do a V sport and then a V Series Gold like the AMG and AMG Black. They could make the emblem with a V and in gold.

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    I am not sure I would have used V twice here. It reeks of when Olds used Cutlass on nearly everything they had with 4 wheels.

    Leave the V Series as the V Series as it has established a strong name equity and then just make this package a Sport or another letter Sport.

    I'll have to disagree. V-Series is a recognized brand and BMW trades on the M moniker for an appearance package, just like Mercedes has the 'AMG Styling Package' on certain models.

    People covet these packages, often for their looks and the association with high-performance models. I think it'd be a bad move to call the VSport anything else.

    They could have created two distinct performance models that stand on their own and do not have to feel like one is the second best as one if beyond the best.

    I also have seen many already people on the auto web sites are mistaking the V Sport as the new V Series. The GM guys have is handled but the non GM guys are missing the point and these are the people GM wants to attract.

    All I ask is to give the V Sport its own Identity and leave the V to the V series.

    But what is done already is done and it is not going to change.

    I guess they could do a V sport and then a V Series Gold like the AMG and AMG Black. They could make the emblem with a V and in gold.

    Maybe they introduced them in the wrong order, given the (relative) hurry to show the TT V6?

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    But I have already seen the non GM fans already thing the V sport is the new V Series. It is a good enough car to be considered a top line for many companies but yet Cadillac has more to come.


    The bottom line is the V sport is good enough it should not need the V Series for help.

    Olds had too many Cutlasses in the 80's and 90's and Michelin has too many Pilots. Too many take the easy way out in marketing and I feel while they do ok they leave some more on the table.

    Either way the V sport will do fine but if it were treated as it's own true model Cadillac could have to distinct series and two distinct model lines. Now the one has to be compared or confused to the other.

    As for the point one is V6 and the other is a V8 is not always clear with the non GM public. It is the details in todays market that separate 1st in class from 3rd in class as things are that competitive anymore.

    As good as the V sport will be if it was issued with the first Cue system it would be sent to second in class by the critics. I expect GM will have this detail fixed in the first one. If GM wants to beat BMW and Benz they need to do a knock out. This is a heavy weight fight and like Ali the reigning champ get the benefit of the judges. The details on these cars are what will prove to be the knock out and I think GM can do it.

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    The style and perfomance of a V, without going full over into V territory? You mean like how Dodge is doing with their SRT series? You can have the SRT core, which is a bare bones SRT without the bells and whitles, for less...or you can pruchase the full blown SRT.

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    Well I think SRT is different. There you will still get all the performance of SRT but with watered down feature content. V-Sport is mid-range performance (though a 420hp V6 really isn't mid-range in the industry) with additional bells and whistles. In the XTS, I think V-Sport is only on Platinum models.

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    Oldsmobile and the Cutlass is different too. There they overused a name to the point where it had no meaning. It would be like if Chevrolet offered the Chevy Cruze, the Chevy Cruze Spark, the Chevy Cruze Sonic, the Chevy Cruze Suburban... but with little reason for the naming convention.

    V-Sport, so far, offers substantial performance enhancements over a non-V-Sport model, thus giving a distinction to the name.

    In essence, this is Cadillac's version of Chevy's SS suffix... but so far, not bastardized.

    And who cares what non-GM fans think? Let them them sit in their M-Sports and AMG appearance packages and watch as twin blade tail lights fade off into the darkness in the distance ahead.

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    Oldsmobile and the Cutlass is different too. There they overused a name to the point where it had no meaning. It would be like if Chevrolet offered the Chevy Cruze, the Chevy Cruze Spark, the Chevy Cruze Sonic, the Chevy Cruze Suburban... but with little reason for the naming convention.

    V-Sport, so far, offers substantial performance enhancements over a non-V-Sport model, thus giving a distinction to the name.

    In essence, this is Cadillac's version of Chevy's SS suffix... but so far, not bastardized.

    And who cares what non-GM fans think? Let them them sit in their M-Sports and AMG appearance packages and watch as twin blade tail lights fade off into the darkness in the distance ahead.

    That is my fear that the V seen on a SRX would send the same signal a SS on a Malibu would. Chevy learned their lesson.

    As for who cares about non GM people. Well Cadillac should as if they are to lead the market they need to sell these cars to people who are not presently Cadillac owner. GM will never lead if they only try to sell cars to who are buying them now.

    This is just a chance for two well defined models that will be seen as one by many. If one was crap and one was good this would be a good thing but you have two lines that could be all their own.

    Both lines will do fine but could they have done better with more distinction between both of them.

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    Why is there the assumption that Cadillac hasn't learned Chevy's lesson too? BMW puts out an X5-M which justifiably gets the M badge, why can't a Cadillac SRX wear a V-Sport badge and rock 410HP under the hood. We already know that engine would physically fit, it is dimensionally the same as the 2.8T the SRX started with.

    The V-Sport badge is only a problem if it doesn't mean anything the same way the SS in Malibu SS didn't mean much. As long as Cadillac keeps the V-Sport brand true to it's recent origins, it will be fine.

    BTW, if you want to relay any messages regarding Cadillac's branding of V-Sport to Cadillac, a member of their PR team is sleeping in my guest bedroom right now and I can let him know your thoughts when he wakes up.

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    For GM has sinned before and BMW not so much has.

    If you get drunk once a year you had too much to drink but if you used to drink too much and were an alcoholic but you get drunk once a year later on you fell off the wagon. The reputation of what GM has done in the past will haunt them till they earn their standing back.

    I agree with you that it is not a big deal but little things like this can create issue with new customers who are not as forgiving.

    In the end it will still be a great car and what it is hopefully will give them the ability to win all potential owners and attract even critics.

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    Can't get every consumer and never will. A company can spiral around trying to and lose sight of the big picture in the meanwhile. The 'not as forgiving' consumers will find another nit to pick, regardless of how 99% perfect a car may otherwise be.

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    Can't get every consumer and never will. A company can spiral around trying to and lose sight of the big picture in the meanwhile. The 'not as forgiving' consumers will find another nit to pick, regardless of how 99% perfect a car may otherwise be.

    So true!

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    This is why a manufacturer cannot worry/waste time over 'less forgiving, anti-Company' consumers. This is why if having a CTS-V and a CTS V-sport, properly defined vs the basic CTS, is NOT an issue. There's more than enough going on without manufacturing false problems.

    This is also why, in a industry overflowing with meaningless numeric names, that names with meaning & image should be on the table for future product, esp where image/perception becomes a larger component than normal for a model. Look at Rolls- the name was heavily tarnished in the '80s with ancient vehicles no where near the leading edge of their sector, yet reworking product to a much higher standard restored that name. The same can be done with many many heritage names. Just because mercedes failed miserably when they bought the rights to 'maybach' and couldn't make it work (poor product), doesn't mean every other instance of using a heritage name will follow the same path.

    In other words, "LTS" or "ZTS" is immeasurably wretched.

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    Well I agree to a point but names and marketing of names can and could create confusion. In GM's case the abuse of names and letters can make people discount a model of confuse it with another.

    In the case of the V sport I have already seen where too many think this is the new V Series.

    As for the numbers game it s more A Euro thing that Americans either do not understand or care about. In Europe most numbered cars represent the class, engine size and or configuration. This was pointed out well by Lutz in his new book when he was at BMW. The Numbers at Ferraris also were the same as they let you know just what a car was and has under the hood and you never even lay eyes on it.

    I do not believe Cadillac should use these Number or letter games as they are American and let that be part of their difference. I do hope they chose as they bring new cars to the market new and original names to represent a break from the recent 40 years. If you want people to think you have changed do not rename the car the same name you had when they began to leave you for other makes.

    Now I do believe in saving the name for a later time when you have earned their trust again to revisit them in a new model later on.

    The trouble with all of us here and I include myself is we all think as GM fans way to much. I work hard to see things from outsiders perspective. While it is important to retain the GM fans and customers they now have they need to win those many who have never owned a GM car let alone even an American car. We now have 1-2 generations that have never had an American car in the family and this takes different thinking vs. the loyal GM thinking we here generally have.

    While the customer is not always right you still have to make them think they are right. You have to serve them your idea and then make them think it was their own anymore. I also find where a Import company many make a ugly or poor car the owners of that brand are easy to forgive. But with GM they have little forgiveness. That just means GM has to get things right more often to win back the loyalty.

    In the case of Benz the name Maybach was not so much the trouble than the car being just an little more expensive Benz. It was a similar issue to the Vette and XLR. While the XLR was not a bad car the Vette was just as good or better and cheaper. Also Maybach here in the stated meant nothing unless you were a Graf Zeppelin fan as they supplied the Zeppelin company with engines. Now in Europe they may have remembered but even if you chose to bring back Duisenberg as so many have tried it would be difficult. Cultures have changes as have values and names like these hold little value to the present buyers.


    As for Rolls the BMW cars are just ugly and to be honest I see Bentley as a much more appealing car anymore. I must not be alone as I see may more Bentleys in my area than new Rolls. Even sales of Masuratis have been off the chart here as the sedans are more common than even a Jag.

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    Well I agree to a point but names and marketing of names can and could create confusion. In GM's case the abuse of names and letters can make people discount a model of confuse it with another. In the case of the V sport I have already seen where too many think this is the new V Series.

    Again- this is worrying about the 'less forgiving, anti-GM' crowd. You will never remove all confusion out there & it's pointless to try. We already have numerous models of many makes who misrepresent engine displacement in model names (BMW for one)- there's certainly confusion there for some... whereas for most others- they don't give a damn. It's not a problem if a handful of folk are confused- the V-Sports aren't even out yet- either they'll learn something new or they won't care. This is a manufactured non-problem.

    It's like all the base MBs and BMWs running around with glued-on AMG/M badges- you don't think that confuses consumers?

    While it is important to retain the GM fans and customers they now have they need to win those many who have never owned a GM car let alone even an American car.

    This is greatly over-emphasized and represents a minimal percent of consumers. The VAST quantity of consumers fit into a VAST pool south of that extreme, those who HAVE owned Domestic and/or who have owned GM in the past. Don't forget the ABA is around 50 yrs old. GM has what- 17% of the U.S. market, and the domestic share is around 55%, IIRC. That's 38% of the consumer pool to go after, and this doesn't count those who owned domestic in the past (only raising that figure). Why chase what might be 15% of the market when you can chase the other 65% (100%—the 17% you already have—the 15% anti-domestics)?? This is the next step to go after, because chasing 15% of the buyer pie, who have no interest in Domestics, is futile in the short run and damaging in the long run.

    In the case of Benz the name Maybach....

    ...if you chose to bring back Duisenberg as so many have tried it would be difficult.

    maybach failed due to poorly-executed product. Of the 3 modern Duesenberg revival attempts, none of them achieved production (and the 1st never achieved steel), so it's not legitimate to judge them. Starting ANY new enterprise up is extremely cost-prohibitive, and something on the level of Duesey/maybach even more so.

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    From here going forward GM and all other MFG will be going for anyone they feel they can convert. There is less and less brand loyalty anymore and one bad ownership experience will chase most customers away anymore, The idea of being a Buick man or Chevy man is antiquated anymore.

    With GM going global they have taken advantage of this and as I can see they are targeting owners of all makes with their brands and models.

    With the way the industry is going ever percentage point will count. We have yet to see the last of the automakers fail.

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    But you see my point, right? People who have never owned GM OR another domestic are the last group you go after, not the first.

    Yes they may be the last. You may not tailor the car to them specifically but you will add elements that will get them to look and in some cases to at least take a bite.

    Styling is the one item that will get people the most as visual is the most attracting element. Look how many people bought the first Gen Viper that would not be caught dead in the rest of the line unless it was a Magnum Hearse.

    The key for GM is to capture people with cars that will attract attention like the Elmirage but then get the to realize there is much more to Cadillac and the rest of the line than just styling alone.

    Hyundai has done this with styling and features. Now if they could only complete the deal on quality. They dance a fine line between sales price and quality and too often the price lets down the car.

    My point is you reach people with their senses and then you show them the logic of the car with value, quality and MPG. Toyota does not care but on the senses as they already hold the customer. If GM can add this element and meet or exceed the other areas they can do very well.

    If you want an example of how GM has done well with this just take a look at the Equinox and Terrain twins. They came out and stunned everyone with looks and features and value., The fours showed good MPG. These models have done what most other GM car have not done and added a lot of sales each and every year they have been out. In reading the forum site they have converted a lot of other loyal, brand owners over. GM did it with making a vehicle that appealed to a vast group and not just GM owners. I see the same in many of their other new models. Lets face it the new Impala may look like a Impala to a point but it has the looks of a car much more expensive than it is. This is a Formula the old Caprice back in the day before down sizing would use to capture buyers.

    GM has the best Design and engineering departments in the world. Many of the greats at other companies came from there. GM never knew how to manage them properly to get the best out of them. Lutz opened the doors and let them do what they could do with out dealing with the GM matrix of management. The others still in charge today understand this and have fought to retain this element of growth.

    The results are GM that is again growing vs. losing market share. Many are new customers to them and as time goes on and the owners that are happy will return as will their children etc. This is how Japan stole our market and how GM will take back their share.

    You have to admit the new GM cars have much more and wider appeal than the cars we had when all the division were all working with the same platforms. As time goes on with Cadillac moving up as well as Buick we will have a very diverse segment that should appeal to a very brought group of people with little overlap.

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    It is all marketing, and a way to drive up prices. Every car company does it. The best example is probably the F-sport package on the Lexus RX350. It costs $6,000 more than the base AWD RX350, and for that you get an 8-speed transmission, 19 inch wheels and "exclusive interior and exterior styling details." It probably doesn't cost them much more to make an 8 speed vs a 6-speed, the cost difference between a 19 inch and 18 inch wheel is pretty marginal, and "exclusive styling" is a black headliner and some plastic molding on the bumpers. It probably doesn't cost more than $1000 in parts to make the F-sport trim, yet they charge $6,000. All a marketing ploy to drive the price up.

    So making V-sport cars is a way to for Cadillac to advertise the low price of the base model, then gouge on the price for the sports model. An ATS 3.6 for example is $43,000, but with the same engine and a V-sport appearance package, they could charge $48,000, more profit for Cadillac.

    I think a lot of these sport packages aren't worth the price. In the old days the better model had a V8 and interior upgrades and other things to justify the price increase over the base model. Now that big engines are dying, the marketing people need to find something new to make money on, so we get things like F-sport that have the exact same horsepower as the base model for $6,000 more.

    Hopefully all Cadillac V-sports have an engine upgrade, as the CTS and XTS have shown.

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    It is all marketing, and a way to drive up prices. Every car company does it. The best example is probably the F-sport package on the Lexus RX350. It costs $6,000 more than the base AWD RX350, and for that you get an 8-speed transmission, 19 inch wheels and "exclusive interior and exterior styling details." It probably doesn't cost them much more to make an 8 speed vs a 6-speed, the cost difference between a 19 inch and 18 inch wheel is pretty marginal, and "exclusive styling" is a black headliner and some plastic molding on the bumpers. It probably doesn't cost more than $1000 in parts to make the F-sport trim, yet they charge $6,000. All a marketing ploy to drive the price up.

    So making V-sport cars is a way to for Cadillac to advertise the low price of the base model, then gouge on the price for the sports model. An ATS 3.6 for example is $43,000, but with the same engine and a V-sport appearance package, they could charge $48,000, more profit for Cadillac.

    I think a lot of these sport packages aren't worth the price. In the old days the better model had a V8 and interior upgrades and other things to justify the price increase over the base model. Now that big engines are dying, the marketing people need to find something new to make money on, so we get things like F-sport that have the exact same horsepower as the base model for $6,000 more.

    Hopefully all Cadillac V-sports have an engine upgrade, as the CTS and XTS have shown.

    They do in the TT V6.

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    It is all marketing, and a way to drive up prices. Every car company does it. The best example is probably the F-sport package on the Lexus RX350. It costs $6,000 more than the base AWD RX350, and for that you get an 8-speed transmission, 19 inch wheels and "exclusive interior and exterior styling details." It probably doesn't cost them much more to make an 8 speed vs a 6-speed, the cost difference between a 19 inch and 18 inch wheel is pretty marginal, and "exclusive styling" is a black headliner and some plastic molding on the bumpers. It probably doesn't cost more than $1000 in parts to make the F-sport trim, yet they charge $6,000. All a marketing ploy to drive the price up.

    So making V-sport cars is a way to for Cadillac to advertise the low price of the base model, then gouge on the price for the sports model. An ATS 3.6 for example is $43,000, but with the same engine and a V-sport appearance package, they could charge $48,000, more profit for Cadillac.

    I think a lot of these sport packages aren't worth the price. In the old days the better model had a V8 and interior upgrades and other things to justify the price increase over the base model. Now that big engines are dying, the marketing people need to find something new to make money on, so we get things like F-sport that have the exact same horsepower as the base model for $6,000 more.

    Hopefully all Cadillac V-sports have an engine upgrade, as the CTS and XTS have shown.

    Except that's not likely to happen. Cool the pessimism for a second.

    By rights, the ATS 3.6 would be called the ATS Vsport, akin to the Audi S4. But, unless they release some performance upgrades on the 3.6 (much like the 335iS), the next step up would have to be the ATS-V. There's not much room for an entirely new engine with ~360 hp just to slap a Vsport badge on it.

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    All of this debate over the name is moot if Cadillac executes these cars properly. If they are among the best performers on the block, look as good as what the recent , Cadillac could name it "Lutzmobile" and people will still buy them while the haters gonna hate.

    Now.. about that ELR V-Sport with the electric motor lifted from the Amtrak ACS-64 City Sprinter.... 4,300hp maximum output per motor (The ACS-64 has 2)....

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    I disagree. I think there is room for a 420hp model between the standard 3.6 and the 556hp ATS-V.

    Except it is widely believed, and I think Car and Driver confirmed, that the ATS-V will have a 420 hp V6. If that is the top end, there isn't really any point in having an engine between the 3.6 and twin turbo 3.6. If the ATS-V had 500 hp, then for sure, I think there is space between 320 hp and 500. But engine sizes are dropping, I think Cadillac is better off making a turbo diesel 4 cylinder for the ATS rather than a 500 hp model.

    These F-sport and V-sport sort of reminds me of the old Chevy Eurosport days, it is just a marketing ploy. Is it so bad to call it CTS 2.0T, 3.6 and 3.6TT.

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    No image with that. Cadillac wants the V-Sport image to be like the M-Sport image over at BMW... only with real performance enhancements.



    I disagree. I think there is room for a 420hp model between the standard 3.6 and the 556hp ATS-V.

    The ATS-V is gonna be that powerful?

    No.. I was just wishing.

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    They do in the TT V6.

    Right, I mean if they do an SRX V-sport, hopefully that has a turbo, unlike the RX350 F-sport which has the same engine as a Camry.

    I expect from what Cadillac is showing that first V sport to be they all will have some kind of engine enhancement. GM learned a lot from the GM Performance Division. If it did not go stop and turn better than a standard model it did not get a GMPD badge.

    As For the V series I expect it to go over 600 HP easily.

    I also would not be shocked if it finds a AWD system involved somewhere. With the V Sport now there is no reason not to do something like that as this will raise the area they can take the price.

    Just look at the coming Z07 and how it may be taking the performance spot from the ZR1 and the ZR1 replacement will be able to go even more upscale. Even the base Vette has replaced the Z06 pretty much performance wise.

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    • So, I had Google Maps on Android Auto as I drove around the Montreal area. My default is (American) English and the verbal instructions are given by an English speaker who also Anglicizes the names of the streets. This will sound sexist, but the pronunciations in other languages reflecting where I've driven reminds me of the 2.7-ish dumb blonde you've had in language classes in high school or college.  I say this because some girls got all exasperated much like Chrissie on "Three's Company" would and whine "this is sooo haaaard" as they mispronounce things while reciting.  The 2.7-ish dumb jock would also say them like he wasn't the brightest bulb and act yuk-yuk-yuk while reciting.  Well, I hope they at least mastered "dos cervezas, por favor" for any cruise they might take to the Mexican Riviera. So, in French speaking Montreal, Google Maps lady calls out: 1.  Boulevard Lakkady That would be Boulevard de l'Acadie, with reference to Acadia National Park and the general area of Acadia, so she bastardized a beautiful place in Maine 2.  Kristoff Column That would be Christophe Colomb, as in Christopher Columbus There were many other "dumb blonde" mispronunciations during those days ... she fares a little bit better in Spanish and Portuguese.  Just a little bit. * end of rant *
    • That'll be like $43k minimum to get the hybrid.
    • @ccap41 I will say that I actually sat in this and checked it out and I am impressed with the SUV looking Kia Carnival MiniVan. Cool that a Hybrid is available with the 2025 model year. 2025 Kia Carnival: Best-in-Class Cargo & Passenger Room MPV | MSRP & Features | Kia
    • You say that now.....  but once you've got two little ones only 1 year apart, you're gonna be rocking the man-van.  And honestly, they aren't at all bad to drive. I'm quite aware it is an image thing, but they have the ride height with more utility, and they have a soft ride like a car.   But that's also why I suggested keeping the MKC and finding a van for the dad duty stuff.  In about 3 years, those rear screens will be useful for you to start memorizing the Bluey theme song.   Have you figured out a charging situation at home yet?  You don't want to be charging a Lightning on a 110v outlet. You might be able to get away with it on something with a smaller battery, but not a full-size truck.  The F-150 Hybrid could potentially beat your MKC in lifetime mpg, depending on your driving patterns.  You'll be in EV mode more often if you're predominantly suburban driving.    Yeah, your dad is right on this one. It's a bit hypocritical of me to say not to buy a truck, but I keep mine parked as much as possible and use the 300 or bike as much as I can.  There's a new job I'm going for, and if I get it, I'll be using public transit as often as I can.
    • Hahaha well our first was due Jan 5th and she was 2.5 weeks early.  Ehhhh I...just...don't want a minivan... I wouldn't mind us having one for the overall utility and convenience, but I don't think I want to drive one of those every day. But, who knows what I'll think in a year or two when I have two kids running around and approaching school and activities-age.    Part of that is why I want a Lightning. I don't want a $100 gasoline bill per week or thereabouts. If the hybrid *actually* gets its 23/23 rating, then that's about my lifetime MKC average anyway (22.6mpg over 52,234 miles of ownership). Our bulk orders will be filled like that anyway for things like 2x4s, drywall, insulation. We have a local lumberyard that delivered for free in the past, although I doubt it's free now, because we were only like 2 miles from them.  I do believe there's a U-haul dealership in town but if I'm doing that, I'm just borrowing my dad's Taco. He's told me not to buy a truck because I can use his anytime. So there is that. He genuinely does not mind me borrowing it any time.  The DOHC is another ~60hp/50tq over the SOHC one. I believe in the Mustang GT it was 240hp/270tq and in the Mach 1 it was 305hp/320tq. I LOVE how the ford 4.6's sound. I can't get enough of how they sound. 
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