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    Spying: 2018 Cadillac XT3 Comes Fully Camouflaged

      I see you XT3!

    Cadillac is going to have a quiet 2017, but 2018 looks to be a blockbuster year as the first of their needed crossovers will launch - the compact XT3. Thanks to a spy photographer, we have gotten our first look at it.

    General Motors' camouflage department did a really good job of covering up the XT3, so we can't really tell much about the design except that it looks like an even smaller XT5. One detail they weren't able to cover up is the intercooler, leading us to believe that the XT3 will come with turbocharged power - most likely the 2.0L turbo. A nine-speed automatic and the choice of front or all-wheel drive is likely. Platform-wise, expect the XT3 to use the underpinnings of the Chevrolet Equinox and GMC Terrain.

    Source: Car and Driver


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    1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

    I actually didn't even think of Buick or GMC, as I don't see either as a luxury brand.   When the Lacrosse and Enclave are $70,000 like a full size Lexus is, then Buick is a luxury brand.  

    U kno what.. U're a Shill. The comparable Lexus to Buick's LaX is the Lacrosse. Anyone looking at a Lax and an ES and coming away buying the Lexus for $5K more is either a U.. "Shill" or an effin idiot. 

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    1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

    Here is some bad news for Cadillac from a Bloomberg article:

    "After overhauling Mercedes’s lineup in recent years, which revitalized the brand’s stodgy image and lifted its sales to the top of the luxury-car segment last year, Daimler is planning to push even harder. Research and development spending will rise to 8.1 billion euros ($8.8 billion) on average this year and next. That’s 22 percent more than the level in 2015, which the company said was already “very high.”"

     

    No way will Cadillac spend $8.8 billion a year on R&D.  GM's total R&D budget in 2015 was $7.4 billion.  Volkswagen's was $15.3 billion.  Johan is fighting a battle he can't win.

    Yet.. outside of slightly better leather in some cars.. on the top end.. literally.. what the hell has that money yielded in better technology overall with Benz versus GM or Cadillac??? Not a God damn thing.. but idiot clowns who buy their used cars and post as if they bought something new on car forums. 

    1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

    Here is some bad news for Cadillac from a Bloomberg article:

    "After overhauling Mercedes’s lineup in recent years, which revitalized the brand’s stodgy image and lifted its sales to the top of the luxury-car segment last year, Daimler is planning to push even harder. Research and development spending will rise to 8.1 billion euros ($8.8 billion) on average this year and next. That’s 22 percent more than the level in 2015, which the company said was already “very high.”"

     

    No way will Cadillac spend $8.8 billion a year on R&D.  GM's total R&D budget in 2015 was $7.4 billion.  Volkswagen's was $15.3 billion.  Johan is fighting a battle he can't win.

    Yet.. outside of slightly better leather in some cars.. on the top end.. literally.. what the hell has that money yielded in better technology overall with Benz versus GM or Cadillac??? Not a God damn thing.. but idiot clowns who buy their used cars and post as if they bought something new on car forums. 

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    1 hour ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    Keep in mind, though, Mercedes and VW are international companies (with many brands in VW's case)..Cadillac has very limited sales outside NA, so they don't need as big of a budget...

    GM is an international company that sells roughly the same number of cars as VW.   GM's entire R&D spend is half of VW's.  

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    2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    Any crossovers are a step in the right direction for Cadillac who has been crossover starved for years now.  However, Johan was supposed to right the ship and make them competitive, and you "expect it will not be the full product"  I mean how many generations of vehicles will it take?  Cadillac will never break the "good enough" philosophy that they have had since the 80s.    And as sedan continue sales drop, CTS and ATS will probably get merged to one product, CT6 and XTS eventually merged, so you have 2 sedans like Buick has and 3 front drive crossovers and the Escalade, and that will be your post 2020 Cadillac brand line up.

    Come on you have been here long enough to know the development times of new product of 5 years and mild refresh of 2 years. Also you know engines tale 5-7 years to develop. 

    Then finacially you know damn well it takes billions to do each product. So you have to pick a couple get them out and then leverage their profits to pay for the rest.

    $12 billion was seed money to turn the ship. The profits from the models we get from that investment will pay for more. 

    Same with man power as they can only only have so many engineers on a project at a time.

    Budgeting money and manpower is key.

    There is no mfg that can do it all at once any more.

    Time is not so much a factor here as Cadillac has the luxury of price and high atp so no needs to pull large volumes to remain profitable. 

    You do not mfg and sell Cadillacs like Chevys.

    Everyone else here understands this why did it miss you?

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    21 minutes ago, Cmicasa the Great said:

    U kno what.. U're a Shill. The comparable Lexus to Buick's LaX is the Lacrosse. Anyone looking at a Lax and an ES and coming away buying the Lexus for $5K more is either a U.. "Shill" or an effin idiot. 

    256992.jpg

    vs 

    256986.jpg

    Yet.. outside of slightly better leather in some cars.. on the top end.. literally.. what the hell has that money yielded in better technology overall with Benz versus GM or Cadillac??? Not a God damn thing.. but idiot clowns who buy their used cars and post as if they bought something new on car forums. 

     

    But you are comparing the top end Buick to the bottom end Lexus.  That is pretty much like saying Chevy competes head on with Cadillac because the Impala LTZ is as expensive as an ATS.  Also comparing a full size Buick to a mid-size Lexus.

    There is a laundry list of things Mercedes has done, whether it be semi-autonomous driving tech, luxury features, 9-speed, plug-in hybrid, coming soon 48 volt inline six, 7 SUVs, 5 convertibles, 5 coupes, over 30 AMG performance models, a coming soon Formula 1 car for the road, etc, etc.  How may V-series cars are there, like 3?  The money goes into giving the consumer choices and giving them what they want.

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    7 minutes ago, hyperv6 said:

    Come on you have been here long enough to know the development times of new product of 5 years and mild refresh of 2 years. Also you know engines tale 5-7 years to develop. 

    Then finacially you know damn well it takes billions to do each product. So you have to pick a couple get them out and then leverage their profits to pay for the rest.

    $12 billion was seed money to turn the ship. The profits from the models we get from that investment will pay for more. 

    Same with man power as they can only only have so many engineers on a project at a time.

    Budgeting money and manpower is key.

    There is no mfg that can do it all at once any more.

    Time is not so much a factor here as Cadillac has the luxury of price and high atp so no needs to pull large volumes to remain profitable. 

    You do not mfg and sell Cadillacs like Chevys.

    Everyone else here understands this why did it miss you?

    $12 billion will only make a dent, that is over 5 years or something that they get that, they need more like $25 billion not 12.

    The ATS and CTS are dying on the vine right now, and the Escalade is the only reason Cadillac has high ATP.  Cadillac should have a Porsche Cayenne competitor mid-size SUV with a CTS-V engine, they need a sedan above CT6 with a twin turbo V8, they need a Tesla Model S fighter, they need 2 convertibles, one could even be an ATS convertible, the other needs to be $75k car, and they need a super car in the $150-200,000 range to compete with Lamborghini Gallardo and Audi R8.  Where is all that?  Where is the high end stuff? 

    And I know the argument will be that they need to fill out the bottom end of the line, but the bottom end of the Cadillac line is just overlap with Buick.  That doesn't help build the brand, it just makes them like Lincoln.

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    8 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    $12 billion will only make a dent, that is over 5 years or something that they get that, they need more like $25 billion not 12.

    The ATS and CTS are dying on the vine right now, and the Escalade is the only reason Cadillac has high ATP.  Cadillac should have a Porsche Cayenne competitor mid-size SUV with a CTS-V engine, they need a sedan above CT6 with a twin turbo V8, they need a Tesla Model S fighter, they need 2 convertibles, one could even be an ATS convertible, the other needs to be $75k car, and they need a super car in the $150-200,000 range to compete with Lamborghini Gallardo and Audi R8.  Where is all that?  Where is the high end stuff? 

    And I know the argument will be that they need to fill out the bottom end of the line, but the bottom end of the Cadillac line is just overlap with Buick.  That doesn't help build the brand, it just makes them like Lincoln.

    I can give you a map to lead you home but unless you gain the understanding  how to read it you will remain lost in that wilderness.

    In a perfect world things would happen as you see but guess what? . 

     

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    10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    $12 billion will only make a dent, that is over 5 years or something that they get that, they need more like $25 billion not 12.

    The ATS and CTS are dying on the vine right now, and the Escalade is the only reason Cadillac has high ATP.  Cadillac should have a Porsche Cayenne competitor mid-size SUV with a CTS-V engine, they need a sedan above CT6 with a twin turbo V8, they need a Tesla Model S fighter, they need 2 convertibles, one could even be an ATS convertible, the other needs to be $75k car, and they need a super car in the $150-200,000 range to compete with Lamborghini Gallardo and Audi R8.  Where is all that?  Where is the high end stuff? 

    And I know the argument will be that they need to fill out the bottom end of the line, but the bottom end of the Cadillac line is just overlap with Buick.  That doesn't help build the brand, it just makes them like Lincoln.

    SMK, Without the whoring out of the E-Class as the Taxi of Europe and all the Chevy Low end stuff that they sell in droves, all your high end stuff would not exist!

    That so called high end stuff does not bring in the profits or keep all the lights on. Many have tried to explain in multiple ways and very clearly how and what is needed first and yet when an Auto beats your MB equal, you move the field goal post to meet your needs. An auto company does something different than what MB does and you state it as a failure. MB has a failure like their PULLMAN series auto and you give some another excuse. If it is not done the MB way, it is clearly a failure, not right, wasted $, etc.etc.etc.

    You're so high on MB that nothing else will ever equal them and in fact if you ever do detox, you might just realize MB is not that much different than the other big boys that have been around just as long. 

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    25 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    SMK, Without the whoring out of the E-Class as the Taxi of Europe and all the Chevy Low end stuff that they sell in droves, all your high end stuff would not exist!

    That so called high end stuff does not bring in the profits or keep all the lights on. Many have tried to explain in multiple ways and very clearly how and what is needed first and yet when an Auto beats your MB equal, you move the field goal post to meet your needs. An auto company does something different than what MB does and you state it as a failure. MB has a failure like their PULLMAN series auto and you give some another excuse. If it is not done the MB way, it is clearly a failure, not right, wasted $, etc.etc.etc.

    You're so high on MB that nothing else will ever equal them and in fact if you ever do detox, you might just realize MB is not that much different than the other big boys that have been around just as long. 

    Exactly. He talks about the price of luxury being $70k while MBs best sellers are a FWD crossover that's no better than your average Buick and a pseudo luxury C Class and yet another FWD CLA that is damn sure not luxury when it starts at $32K. It's that bar moving that he likes to do that ends up trapping him in almost every conversation. 

    10 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    $12 billion will only make a dent, that is over 5 years or something that they get that, they need more like $25 billion not 12.

    The ATS and CTS are dying on the vine right now, and the Escalade is the only reason Cadillac has high ATP.  Cadillac should have a Porsche Cayenne competitor mid-size SUV with a CTS-V engine, they need a sedan above CT6 with a twin turbo V8, they need a Tesla Model S fighter, they need 2 convertibles, one could even be an ATS convertible, the other needs to be $75k car, and they need a super car in the $150-200,000 range to compete with Lamborghini Gallardo and Audi R8.  Where is all that?  Where is the high end stuff? 

    And I know the argument will be that they need to fill out the bottom end of the line, but the bottom end of the Cadillac line is just overlap with Buick.  That doesn't help build the brand, it just makes them like Lincoln.

    So what it is when Benz fills their lineup with $30K bottom feeders like the CLA and $25K vans? You have plenty of excuses but no real rationale. 

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    18 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    To dfelt's point, I meant the Euro SUVs/crossovers have better handling dynamics, better performance, more luxury, etc.  The same traits that allowed BMW, Mercedes and Audi to take over luxury sedans will allow them, and Jaguar/Land Rover to gain advantage in luxury SUVs.  All those front drive crossovers max out at like 300 hp, the European crossovers can offer are 500 hp and more.  This is no different than when Cadillac, Lincoln and Lexus tried to push front drive sedans, the 3-series, M5's and E-classes of the world ate them up.

    I did pull luxury crossover/SUV sales from last month, 

    Europe with 35,062 (BMW 9,421, Mercedes 8,940, Audi 7,228, Land Rover 6,163, Porsche 3,310) plus whatever Jaguar did

    Japan clocked in at 24,056 (Lexus 10,436, Infiniti 7144, Acura 6,476)

    USA with 11,557 (Cadillac 6,049, Lincoln 5,508)

    Problem is Cadillac doesn't have the money either, maybe not as bad as Lincoln, but not what they need.  Mercedes R&D spend is more than all of GM, so unless GM wants to divert 100% of their R&D to just Cadillac, they will never catch up.  At least Cadillac tries with the resources they do have, Lincoln and Acura are basically just doing badge jobs of Fords and Hondas.

    What a joke. A huge part of MBs R&D is going towards the lower end of the EV market (remember, they do own Smart). The rest? Who knows but MB is playing against GM in that regard, not just Cadillac, and GM throws just as much cash towards R&D as Benz so you can just drop that silly comparison right now.

     

    Oh, and regarding your Buick/GMC and the $70K threshold for luxury, I have one for you. The Yukon Denali, which starts at $66K and easily crosses your magical and imaginary mark for luxury (which btw, eliminates half of Mercedes current lineup, making them not luxury either).

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    I specifically said Buick is not a luxury brand, because they aren't in the higher price points.  GMC only gets there with a luxury full size truck, but you can spend $60k on a Ford Super Duty, which I wouldn't call luxury, it is expensive because it is a commercial truck.

    The "bottom feeder" CLA costs more than a Buick LaCrosse.

    More myth busting: It was said that Mercedes relies on FWD GLA's to get sales which is false, the GLA is their worst selling crossover, the GLE is #1, GLC #2, GLS #3.

    Another fallacy is that the high end cars don't make money.  Tell that to Porsche who makes $19,000 profit per car or Bentley who makes $25,000 profit per car, Lamborghini is higher still.  Audi makes over $5,000 per car profit.  The VW luxury group is the gold standard when it comes to profit margin

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    18 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    I did pull luxury crossover/SUV sales from last month, 

    Europe with 35,062 (BMW 9,421, Mercedes 8,940, Audi 7,228, Land Rover 6,163, Porsche 3,310) plus whatever Jaguar did

    Japan clocked in at 24,056 (Lexus 10,436, Infiniti 7144, Acura 6,476)

    USA with 11,557 (Cadillac 6,049, Lincoln 5,508)

    So USA with 2 brands did a third of what Europe did with 6 brands.. the math adds up pretty even there, bud. And with Caddy and Lincoln expanding and updating their lineups I don't think they're too worried.

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    8 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    Another fallacy is that the high end cars don't make money.  Tell that to Porsche who makes $19,000 profit per car or Bentley who makes $25,000 profit per car, Lamborghini is higher still.  Audi makes over $5,000 per car profit.  The VW luxury group is the gold standard when it comes to profit margin

    Interesting how you mention the VW group and yet do not point out MB's own profit or lack of profit in that ultra category. Maybe the fact that has been pointed out so many times before, the heavy discounting, the fact that MB leads the word as the number one leased auto, etc.

    Just accept that MB is a global auto company that competes from the basic Eco box auto and commercial van to ubber luxury and as such is no longer a luxury only brand. They are a global company competing against Toyota, VW, GM, Ford, etc.

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    19 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    I specifically said Buick is not a luxury brand, because they aren't in the higher price points.  GMC only gets there with a luxury full size truck, but you can spend $60k on a Ford Super Duty, which I wouldn't call luxury, it is expensive because it is a commercial truck.

    The "bottom feeder" CLA costs more than a Buick LaCrosse.

    More myth busting: It was said that Mercedes relies on FWD GLA's to get sales which is false, the GLA is their worst selling crossover, the GLE is #1, GLC #2, GLS #3.

    Another fallacy is that the high end cars don't make money.  Tell that to Porsche who makes $19,000 profit per car or Bentley who makes $25,000 profit per car, Lamborghini is higher still.  Audi makes over $5,000 per car profit.  The VW luxury group is the gold standard when it comes to profit margin

    No you specifically said Buick and GMC. Don't backtrack on what you literally said. You will notice that I never said Buick was luxury either. You also don't get to compare the Denali to a commercial truck since it is NOT a commercial truck. It is a luxury SUV, end of story. Good grief. Where do you come up with the pointless comparisons?

     

    I also don't care if the CLA is more than the LaCrosse. Of course, it's only a $300 difference so to that I say "big whoop". Remember, Mercedes is luxury right? It should be more expensive. Luxury just doesn't include the CLA since it doesn't meet your imaginary $70K threshold.

     

    And no one, and I mean no one, has ever said that high end cars don't make money. That is just another make believe scenario by your to try and change the very narrative you set up.

    Edited by surreal1272

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    29 minutes ago, surreal1272 said:

    Oh, and regarding your Buick/GMC and the $70K threshold for luxury, I have one for you. The Yukon Denali, which starts at $66K and easily crosses your magical and imaginary mark for luxury (which btw, eliminates half of Mercedes current lineup, making them not luxury either).

    70k means luxury?

    CLA, C, E, CLS, GLA, GLC, GLC Coupe, GLE, GLE Coupe, C Coupe, E Coupe, E Wagon, C 'Vert, E 'Vert, SLC, GLS and B are all non-luxury vehicles because they don't start above 70k. I'm no mathematician but I think that's over half of their lineup.. It's everything but S, S Coupe, S 'Vert, G Wagen, SL and AMG GT are their only luxury cars... Damn, it appears Mercedes is just another peasant company.

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    Just now, ccap41 said:

    70k means luxury?

    CLA, C, E, CLS, GLA, GLC, GLC Coupe, GLE, GLE Coupe, C Coupe, E Coupe, E Wagon, C 'Vert, E 'Vert, SLC, GLS and B are all non-luxury vehicles because they don't start above 70k. I'm no mathematician but I think that's over half of their lineup.. It's everything but S, S Coupe, S 'Vert, G Wagen, SL and AMG GT are their only luxury cars... Damn, it appears Mercedes is just another peasant company.

    Exactly my point but he insisted on creating this imaginary number so it will be used against him at every opportunity. 

    11 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    So USA with 2 brands did a third of what Europe did with 6 brands.. the math adds up pretty even there, bud. And with Caddy and Lincoln expanding and updating their lineups I don't think they're too worried.

    Based on his "logic", I should just pull up pick up sales comparing the U.S. (One country mind you) against all of Europe. Let's see how that stacks up shall we lol?

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    Couple of things with this spending commentary.  

    Could it be possible that GM is simply capable of getting costs down better than Mercedes thus less of a need to spend more due to scale and being able to negotiate with suppliers  better due to that scale?  I mean GM is obviously the larger company versus Benz...  As we've argued before, they have many parts that are spread  across divisions.  I mean look at the numbers.  Last year the K2xx SUVs sold by themselves 290k units.  That's only 90k less that all of Benz last year.  They all share R&D.  That kind of scale alone would save GM a billion here..  a billion there.  Gives them a lot of negotiation leeway...  especially when one considers that they can also leverage the 950k pick-ups sharing parts and platforms they sold last year. So yeah it would stand to reason that Benz would have to spend more on everything,  including R&D.  Furthermore,  there are a lot of things that GM simply doesn't have to spend on R&D like Benz does because many things they put out are already paid for years ago.  They are quite possibly years ahead of Benz in R&D.  

    56 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    Interesting how you mention the VW group and yet do not point out MB's own profit or lack of profit in that ultra category. Maybe the fact that has been pointed out so many times before, the heavy discounting, the fact that MB leads the word as the number one leased auto, etc.

    Just accept that MB is a global auto company that competes from the basic Eco box auto and commercial van to ubber luxury and as such is no longer a luxury only brand. They are a global company competing against Toyota, VW, GM, Ford, etc.

    Yup.  In most parts of the world Mercedes is becoming the JC Penny's of Automotive.  

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    The truth is the Mercedes that serves the world has never been the same one serving America.

    Mercedes USA was always a Luxury division and really never offered the cheaper and less expensive models they did offer else where. They did offer some low end models when Studebaker was their distributor. I remember an old 190 sedan with a 4 cylinder that kind of looked dumpy a family friend had.

    The 190 sedan back then was just a cheap basic car and it made a Checker look like a Luxury car. Many forget about these as few people restore them. They were rust buckets and a good one today is only worth $10K at best and much less than the cost of a good paint job.

    Mercedes has been a be all to many parts of the world for many years but they are going to have to increase that as volume becomes ever more important. In America they are trying to lower the range of their lines to meet the low end Luxury and even considered he Pick up for volume but did not follow through.

    Mercedes wants to get into the market selling cheaper cars in America but just can not figure out how to do it without damaging the image or delusion that Mercedes is anything but Luxury.

    Even BMW at least has Mini.

    My father lived in Germany in the 50's and owned a Mercedes. I was always impressed till I got older and he showed me and explain to me it was like owning an Impala in Europe. It was not like owning a 450Sl. 

    I did laugh as his buddy won a 300SL gullwing in some kind of contest. He sold it for a Corvette as he had a single garage and could not get in or out with the doors. I thought that was funny.

     

     

    Edited by hyperv6
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    Interesting, MB is stressing under the weight of Union costs. This story says they are moving the building of the C-class to the Alabama plant and now the German Union is trying to unionize them in what appears to locals as an attempt to keep the jobs and production in Germany. MB is moving productions to South Africa and the asian rim reducing production in Germany and the German Union is ramping up to fight. It would seem the high cost is a factor and one has to wonder how long before someone trys to introduce a bill in their parlement to allow right to work free zones?

    Right now all of Germany is a Union required job work area and that just sucks IMHO.

    http://www.al.com/business/index.ssf/2013/08/post_63.html

    Interesting reading of what is going on over seas and in Alabama. 

    WHY DO I BRING THIS UP?

    I think Cadillac not only has quality products, but what little they make with such high ATPs is scaring the Germans and you will see more and more production move out of Germany as they have to fight at all levels from Eco box to ubber luxury on price and quality. 

    The cat is out of the bag and what the Germans had in the 90's and early 2000's is over.

    Welcome to a New Day Everyone! Quality exists all over and not just in Germany. 

    Except for Italy, garbage still built there.

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    Can we at least wait for the XT3 to be released?  It is true the Cadillac looks like it is behind because of current sales trends, but budgets, time constraints and limited resources all take their toll.  Without the Escalade, Caddy would have a Lincoln-sized funding gap problem.  It wan not that long ago that Caddy was simply not competitive in the luxury space and a lot of bad decisions led to inferior product.  The Germans and Lexus have made so few mistakes in the last 25 years or so that Cadillac looked really bad.  As far as I can tell, Cadillac has largely escaped its worst days and will be fully competitive within five years or so.  The XT5 (and CT6) are proof of that.  The XT3 will be more proof once released.  You could say that the best thing about Cadillac is Chevy, since unlike Mercedes Caddy does not have to appease the non-luxury market anywhere.  Cadillac is going in the right direction and it will be just fine in 2020 or so.  No need to panic.

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    48 minutes ago, dfelt said:

    Interesting, MB is stressing under the weight of Union costs. This story says they are moving the building of the C-class to the Alabama plant and now the German Union is trying to unionize them in what appears to locals as an attempt to keep the jobs and production in Germany. MB is moving productions to South Africa and the asian rim reducing production in Germany and the German Union is ramping up to fight. It would seem the high cost is a factor and one has to wonder how long before someone trys to introduce a bill in their parlement to allow right to work free zones?

    Right now all of Germany is a Union required job work area and that just sucks IMHO.

    http://www.al.com/business/index.ssf/2013/08/post_63.html

    Interesting reading of what is going on over seas and in Alabama. 

    WHY DO I BRING THIS UP?

    I think Cadillac not only has quality products, but what little they make with such high ATPs is scaring the Germans and you will see more and more production move out of Germany as they have to fight at all levels from Eco box to ubber luxury on price and quality. 

    The cat is out of the bag and what the Germans had in the 90's and early 2000's is over.

    Welcome to a New Day Everyone! Quality exists all over and not just in Germany. 

    Except for Italy, garbage still built there.

    The bolded part is a real possible reason why GM is choosing to get out of Opel/Vaux.. not to mention the impact that Brexit may pose and is being forecast to pose

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    Good points by Riviera.

     

    i picked the $70,000 number because a full size Sedan or SUV at Lexus  starts in the 70s, at Buick a full size sedan or SUV starts in the $30s, big difference.  You can't compare Lexus  and Buick when Lexus has a $95,000 coupe, an $80k sedan,  an Escalade competitor (that doesn't sell), etc.   Cadillac is the Lexus fighter, XT3 and XT5 vs NX and RX, ATS and CTS vs IS and GS with V-series and F versions each.  LX570 vs Escalade, CT6 vs LS460 on the last 2 Lexus does the car better, Cadillac does the truck better.

     

    As as far as MB profit margin, theirs around 9%, which is strong but Audi is 10% and Porsche and Bentley are like 20%, this why I said VW's luxury group sets the standard.

     

     

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    59 minutes ago, riviera74 said:

    Can we at least wait for the XT3 to be released?  It is true the Cadillac looks like it is behind because of current sales trends, but budgets, time constraints and limited resources all take their toll.  Without the Escalade, Caddy would have a Lincoln-sized funding gap problem.  It wan not that long ago that Caddy was simply not competitive in the luxury space and a lot of bad decisions led to inferior product.  The Germans and Lexus have made so few mistakes in the last 25 years or so that Cadillac looked really bad.  As far as I can tell, Cadillac has largely escaped its worst days and will be fully competitive within five years or so.  The XT5 (and CT6) are proof of that.  The XT3 will be more proof once released.  You could say that the best thing about Cadillac is Chevy, since unlike Mercedes Caddy does not have to appease the non-luxury market anywhere.  Cadillac is going in the right direction and it will be just fine in 2020 or so.  No need to panic.

    Great post.. and many fail to realize what U say. Sales are a damned if U do, Damned if U don't position in the luxury segment. Sell to many RX350s, CLA/GLAs, SRXs, and A3s your luxo credentials are put on trial. Sell too many Escalades and U are in danger of being called a "truck brand." Its fickle.. Cadillac I once posed is perhaps the only other maker besides Benz to be able to make a real claim to heritage in luxury. Cadillac was luxury before there ever was a BMW or AUDI.. they just didn't become a LUXO/SPORT until 10 years ago... I said this a while ago as well. I don't see Cadillac in the same light as BMW. I see it more on level with Benz, but with a Jaguar-ish air about it. In fact if Cadillac were to do vehicles strictly for the sake of volume I don't kno if I would be as much if a supporter. As to Cadillac falling behind... One must remember that change did occur, and that the idea of luxury that WAS had been altered to accommodate the tastesof the "new" population. That is obvious as in 1970.. no one would have thought that the BMW experience was luxurious.

    I will add that (from 2015 so sales numbers might be off)

    Cadillac chief Johann is planning on a CLA rival, but on ALPHA with RWD. The idea is to still be luxury, with enthusiastic performance, and a cheaper price to compete with the Germans entry sedans that have chosen to use economy set-ups. One ride or drive in a Mercedes CLA and GLA and one should, with non-rose colored glasses come to the conclusion that the cars may be on Chevy levels when U get down to it. A Cruze LTZ comes across as a better luxury car than the CLA.. A Verano certainly. That's fact.

    My view is that Cadillac needs time, without all the constant focus on their sales numbers to pull itself back to where it needs to be. GM has the sales numbers when looking at its premium operations. Between Cadillac and Buick, not even including GMC.. they sold 1.4 Million last year, Buick bringing in 1.1 million+. Cadillac should focus on its CT2 (ATS) CT4 (CTS) CT6, and CT8 and XT3(Alpha based 5door) XT4 (Alpha based 3door), XT5(SRX), XT7(Omega or Lambda based 5door) along with the Escalade and a Super car. 10 cars max. 

    Johnan is succumbing to idiotic public media pressure concerning a drop in sales, . Lack of PRODUCT PRODUCT PRODUCT is the culprit, and it seems as if no one, in the media is seeing it. 

    That being said.. if GM pursued a dual-channel strategy, utilizing Buick as the go-to, would people give Cadillac a pass when it comes to their sales not being as high as a Mercedes Benz which is fluffing sales using cars that are on Buick levels???

    So we get from observers who kno.. but choose to ignore:

    "Cadillac sales are in the dumps. They are selling some of the best cars in the segment, but their sales are down.. Must mean they aren't prestigious enough. Of course let's gloss over and FORGET that they are only selling 6 cars versus Benz who is selling 17. Let's also forget that Benz has a whole new host of entry level luxury vehicles, FWD based, that would otherwise be Buick competitors at best. "

    So again. Will Cadillac get the pass??? Or if GM combined sales of the Cadillac and Buick brands.. with Buick essentially becoming the "Lasalle" of the day.. would people who care about sales let it slide that they are selling in two different slots like Mercedes is doing, under one name, to garner more sales? I say NO. I say every chance most haters get they will mention the strategy. I say that those very same people will constantly ignore the fact that Benz is selling low end cars that have very little to do with luxury, to shore up their CAFE requirements and aspirations of luxury segment sales supremacy.

    It calls up the questions: Are sales important in the luxury segment? Are sales the gauge by which success is measured in this segment?

    GM could take on Benz straight up with this line-up and would pull in as many sales with Cadillac selling a version of the Cruze, a Sonic, a Equinox, etc. Or are we saying that Cadillac must make as many sales with an exclusive, RWD based line-up of over the top performance cars while Benz gets to essentially cheat, and give us warmed over economy cars? 

    I believe that Cadillac should have CT2 CT4 CT6 CT8 and XT equivalents along with an Escalade and a Super car. 10 vehicles, but none of them have to be compromised in such a way as Benz has unleashed with the CLA.

    I say that GM has an advantage with Buick. They could, for the sake of negative, almost exclusive to them, press releases about sales utilize Buick as their entry level brand. Between the two last year, GM garnered 400,000 sales in the U.S. That would have, under Benz rules (of putting mainstream level cars in the luxo line-up) that would have easily made them the best selling group of the year.


    I agree that Cadillac still has to prove itself. The biggest problem I have with them having to prove themselves is that they seem to have to jump thru 30 hoops for those 30 years of troubles.. while brands like Audi.. which continues to have quality issues, get a pass. Ironically, in terms of sales, Audi really had a BAD year versus Caddy considering the amount of vehicles it sells. No one mentions it tho.. in fact just the opposite.
    I will say that a back to back drive with "brand blinders" on would make most come away with a review that the top of the line Chevy, Ford, Honda, or Mazda as being on par or better than the $30K+ CLA.

    The game has been rigged in such a way that Mercedes is essentially pulling the wool over sheepy eyes and selling them a vehicle, under the guise of luxury, that otherwise would be considered no better than a Chevy.The CLA has no place in a luxury car line-up. It is a sales and compliance vehicle that fluffed up Benzes sales. The GLA is another one. They are getting a pass simply because they are Mercedes.

    Making a smaller ATS, a world class sport lux, is no different than BMW making a smaller 3series with the 2. I can get behind that, if sales supremacy is a non-issue. In order to compete with Benz tho.. Cadillac will need to do this.
    Benz took an A-Class, essentially a Sonic competitor, not even a Cruze, and told U it was something else.

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    1 hour ago, smk4565 said:

    Good points by Riviera.

     

    i picked the $70,000 number because a full size Sedan or SUV at Lexus  starts in the 70s, at Buick a full size sedan or SUV starts in the $30s, big difference.  You can't compare Lexus  and Buick when Lexus has a $95,000 coupe, an $80k sedan,  an Escalade competitor (that doesn't sell), etc.   Cadillac is the Lexus fighter, XT3 and XT5 vs NX and RX, ATS and CTS vs IS and GS with V-series and F versions each.  LX570 vs Escalade, CT6 vs LS460 on the last 2 Lexus does the car better, Cadillac does the truck better.

     

    As as far as MB profit margin, theirs around 9%, which is strong but Audi is 10% and Porsche and Bentley are like 20%, this why I said VW's luxury group sets the standard.

     

     

    But Lexus has far more models under $70K than over it. Your imaginary comparison just doesn't fly. 

     

    And Buick gets compared to Lexus all the time. The LaCross has been spanking the ES in comparors for years now. 

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    Caddy needs this and it is going to majorly help their bottom line.  As or the comparisons to Lexus and Mercedes, last I checked both of them are aiming pretty low, cla/gla and Lexus has tried not 1 but 2 low priced Hybrids. 

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    In response to Casa's post (I didn't want to quote the whole thing), I agree that Cadillac has heritage, but they fail to capitalize on it.  Mercedes talks about their history all the time, Cadillac wants people to forget theirs.  

    I mostly agree with the 10 products they need, but I don't think Cadillac needs 4 sedans when sedan sales are tanking, 3 is enough.  They do need coupes, convertibles and sports cars, and I believe they need alpha and Omega crossovers with V-series versions.  They need electric cars in the 2020-2025 time frame to hit.

    XT5 is priced like a GLC now, an XT3 is going to have GLA level pricing, so the haters of the GLA better get ready for that, and XT3 is front drive just like a GLA, they are going after the same market.  I'd rather see Cadillac go up market and sales volume will come later.  Cadillac lacks prestige, if they want to get it they have to go up market.  If Buick is really so strong, they should be able to take on Lincoln, the Lacrosse can go up $10k in base price and replace the XTS, Regal can go up in price and take on MKZ.  Make the ATS and XT3 $39,950 base, CTS,and XT5 $53,000base, CT6 and XT7 $84,950, Escalade $99,950 base model.

    Good luck getting dealers to accept 20% price hikes to Buick and Cadillac models though.

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