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    William Maley

    Rumorpile: New Dodge Challenger and Charger Not Due Till 2021, 300 Bumped Off

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      FCA pushes back the redesign of Challenger and Charger

    Fiat Chrysler Automobiles is going to be milking the LX platform for all its worth till at least 2020. Automotive News has learned from two sources that FCA won't redesign the Chrysler 300, Dodge Challenger, and Charger until 2021 when they will transition onto the Giorgio RWD platform. This information confirms hazy details mentioned in a contract highlighter for Unifor members in Canada. The highlighter mentions a $242 million investment into the plant at Brampton, Ontario - home of LX production - to rebuild its paint shop.

    Originally, the plan was to have the next-generation 300, Challenger, Charger out by 2019. Now with plans moved to 2021, FCA will be doing another refresh in 2018.

    The sources also mention that one of three vehicles will be discontinued in 2021, most likely the 300. 

    Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required)
    Pic Credit: William Maley for Cheers & Gears

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    Yikes. These cars are going to be beyond stale by then. 

     

    Will they even have the capital to develop all-new cars that are competitive and honor the spirit of the current cars?

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    LOL I don't even know what to think or say anymore about this. It's been around since 2005 and it already a dated platform.. The Avenger and Caliber are newer than this. Their Pacifica/Grand Caravan is on its second platform in this time.

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    Really not anything new here.  As long as they keep making money, why not?  The patform the Explorer, Taurus, and Flex rides on dates back to the late 90s.  As far as I know Chevy still builds the Impala Limited on the W body platform that dates back to the late 80s.  Toyota Corolla?  What, 2003?   If i am not mistaken the Camry is still riding on the platform that came out in 2007.  The key is to keep it as fresh as possible. 

    in any case we better be getting some fantastic replacements for having to wait this long!

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    I'm waiting for an announcement that reveals the true financial state of FCA is much closer to the brink than the brave face they're putting on.

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    5 minutes ago, cp-the-nerd said:

    I'm waiting for an announcement that reveals the true financial state of FCA is much closer to the brink than the brave face they're putting on.

    The unwillingness to face market reality and invest in new product for the domestic US auto market will get them there if they are not there now.

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    It’s not just these vehicles, but also truck and Jeep.  Is it a capital issue?  What gives?  I want to see them prosper with healthy product and profit.  Not just profit.

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    14 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

    It’s not just these vehicles, but also truck and Jeep.  Is it a capital issue?  What gives?  I want to see them prosper with healthy product and profit.  Not just profit.

     

    Could not agree more....product and profit both!

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    The D4 platform the Flex rides on is from 2005 and it's on its way out..because nobody buys Flexes.. Taurus is on the D3 according to Wiki..

    The "New MC" platform the Corolla rides on came out in like '05 but the Corolla adapted it in 2014..If I read it correctly.

    I guess it just seems ancient because where the Mustang and Camaro have come from since then. As for a sedan for the Charger/300 it doesn't seem as large of a deal because tuning for lap times and performance just isn't what they're striving for. But looking at the past platforms and how many years they've been around this is definitely going to be the longest. Platforms in general hang around longer than I thought. Good information to know.

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    45 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

    It’s not just these vehicles, but also truck and Jeep.  Is it a capital issue?  What gives?  I want to see them prosper with healthy product and profit.  Not just profit.

     

    I don't get how you can say that about jeep and Ram?  There is a new ram coming and the current one is selling great.  We get at least 1 new jeep every year and we are are getting at least 2 next year with the Wrangler and Compass. 

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    2 minutes ago, Stew said:

    I don't get how you can say that about jeep and Ram?  There is a new ram coming and the current one is selling great.  We get at least 1 new jeep every year and we are are getting at least 2 next year with the Wrangler and Compass. 

    I might be off base on Jeep, but on truck, they are behind GM and Ford in freshenings.

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    18 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    The D4 platform the Flex rides on is from 2005 and it's on its way out..because nobody buys Flexes.. Taurus is on the D3 according to Wiki..

    The "New MC" platform the Corolla rides on came out in like '05 but the Corolla adapted it in 2014..If I read it correctly.

    I guess it just seems ancient because where the Mustang and Camaro have come from since then. As for a sedan for the Charger/300 it doesn't seem as large of a deal because tuning for lap times and performance just isn't what they're striving for. But looking at the past platforms and how many years they've been around this is definitely going to be the longest. Platforms in general hang around longer than I thought. Good information to know.

    Interesting note, the Flex's last year is 2020, which should also be the last for the LX cars.  The challenger was never about chasing lap times.  It is a VERY different car from the Mustang and Camaro.  Larger, with a real trunk and true 5 passenger capacity, the Mustang and Camaro are only setup as 4 seaters and the back seat pass3engers are pretty well tortured,.  my bug has more backseat space lol. 

    1 minute ago, Wings4Life said:

    I might be off base on Jeep, but on truck, they are behind GM and Ford in freshenings.

    2018 or 2019 will bring a brand new one.  the last major refresh was in 14 which including modifications to the frame, engines, adaptation of the 8 speed, intro of the ecodiesel, and a very much improved interior, so it really hasn't been that long, especially for a truck. 

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    12 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

    I might be off base on Jeep, but on truck, they are behind GM and Ford in freshenings.

    The " new " Ram coming is a heavily update of the current truck. It's not " all new " like it's GM and Ford counterparts recent offerings 

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    1 minute ago, FordCosworth said:

    The " new " Ram coming is a heavily update of the current truck. It's not " all new " like it's GM and Ford counterparts recent offerings 

    At worst it is going to be heavily revised, but at least mostly new.  Some spyshots are even showing them with a wider track.  Lighter weight materials will certainly be used. 

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    remember too, the last gen F-150 was actually all new in 04, 08 was a heavy update so you are looking at 04-14 on the same platform.  the ram was all new in 09 so 09-19 is the same as the F-150. 

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    Yeah a ten year span seems acceptable and companies need to start stretching them out to amortize costs better. The LX will be 16 years old for its last year of production 2005-2021. That's the one in question, the LX not the Ram. I'd also think trucks could last longer on an existing platform just because their intended use is a little more direct whereas cars they are using them for multiple names and variants.

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    10 years is not unheard of at all for cars.  Usually 2 successive generations will be based on the same platform, just highly modified for each one as happened with the LX cars in 11 and again in 15.  It seems like fullsize cars tend to hang around on their platforms longer than their midsize counterparts. 

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    Depends on the vehicle.  Remember before the new 2014 Impala came out, the last model (still sold as the limited) was/is based on the W body platform form, i believe, 1988 which puts it at roughly 30 years old.  The taurus is based on a platform dating to the late 90s, Pat\nther went on for over 30s with it's last total interior design happening in 95 and the last full exterior redesign in 1998.  In any case, 15 or 16 is a lot better than 30+ :)

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    Think of this, the Buick Lesabre was on sale when the first LX Dodge Magnum went on sale, and I think 2005 was the first year of the W-body Lacrosse and the Lucerne came in 2006.  Buick has replaced the Lacrosse 2 more times since then and Chrysler/Dodge still have the same basic car.

    The LX was based on a Mercedes chassis (w210 I think) they have done 3 new chassis since then.  Chrysler is so hopeless, you can't compete with 20 year old stuff, they'll be selling Chargers for $19,999 in another year or two.

    This is also Sergio hoping some white knight will ride in and save him with a merger and a line of established good cars that's he can rebadge.  But Honda or Hyundai aren't walking through the door with a line of fresh sedans and crossovers for them to add some chrome and leather and sell as Chrylsers.

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    9 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    Think of this, the Buick Lesabre was on sale when the first LX Dodge Magnum went on sale, and I think 2005 was the first year of the W-body Lacrosse and the Lucerne came in 2006.  Buick has replaced the Lacrosse 2 more times since then and Chrysler/Dodge still have the same basic car.

    The LX was based on a Mercedes chassis (w210 I think) they have done 3 new chassis since then.  Chrysler is so hopeless, you can't compete with 20 year old stuff, they'll be selling Chargers for $19,999 in another year or two.

    This is also Sergio hoping some white knight will ride in and save him with a merger and a line of established good cars that's he can rebadge.  But Honda or Hyundai aren't walking through the door with a line of fresh sedans and crossovers for them to add some chrome and leather and sell as Chrylsers.

    Worst and most uninformed comment yet. 

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    2 hours ago, FordCosworth said:

    The " new " Ram coming is a heavily update of the current truck. It's not " all new " like it's GM and Ford counterparts recent offerings 

    ...and both the Ford and GM products are very well done with excellent reviews. Not sure why it won't let me reply without putting a line through the text.

    Edited by A Horse With No Name

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    1 hour ago, Stew said:

    Depends on the vehicle.  Remember before the new 2014 Impala came out, the last model (still sold as the limited) was/is based on the W body platform form, i believe, 1988 which puts it at roughly 30 years old.  The taurus is based on a platform dating to the late 90s, Pat\nther went on for over 30s with it's last total interior design happening in 95 and the last full exterior redesign in 1998.  In any case, 15 or 16 is a lot better than 30+ :)

    As far as the Panthers go, I still want a Mercury Marauder like I want Oxygen and access to the fair sex.  Kind of hard to argue against all of the unloved miles these did as Police cars and Taxi cars also.

    Call me stupid but I have a soft spot in my heart for these.  I still cringe a bit inside whenever they inevitably get blown up in movies and TV shows also. Was not always the case, but as I get older and I look back...Ford did one heck of a job with these.

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    This just confirms the waste of Billions on bringing back the stupid Italian brands that were already dead rather than investing in the proper labels in the US. 

    No one can prove that the billions wasted on Alfa was worth steeling all the profits from the US labels.

    This also makes me even more solid about the Killing Chrysler label. Dodge will continue on, kill off the 200, 300 and move the Pacifica to Dodge and Chrysler is dead.

    I bet FCA in 2020 will announce the death of the 300, the movement of the Pacifica to Dodge and the delay to milk out everything under Jeep and Ram so they can continue to rap the profits to sink into the death traps from Fiat and Alfa. Garbage auto's with checkered history. Should have left them in the history books.

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      3,021                     0                   New

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