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    Rumorpile: New Dodge Challenger and Charger Not Due Till 2021, 300 Bumped Off


    • FCA pushes back the redesign of Challenger and Charger

    Fiat Chrysler Automobiles is going to be milking the LX platform for all its worth till at least 2020. Automotive News has learned from two sources that FCA won't redesign the Chrysler 300, Dodge Challenger, and Charger until 2021 when they will transition onto the Giorgio RWD platform. This information confirms hazy details mentioned in a contract highlighter for Unifor members in Canada. The highlighter mentions a $242 million investment into the plant at Brampton, Ontario - home of LX production - to rebuild its paint shop.

    Originally, the plan was to have the next-generation 300, Challenger, Charger out by 2019. Now with plans moved to 2021, FCA will be doing another refresh in 2018.

    The sources also mention that one of three vehicles will be discontinued in 2021, most likely the 300. 

    Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required)
    Pic Credit: William Maley for Cheers & Gears

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    Yikes. These cars are going to be beyond stale by then. 

     

    Will they even have the capital to develop all-new cars that are competitive and honor the spirit of the current cars?

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    LOL I don't even know what to think or say anymore about this. It's been around since 2005 and it already a dated platform.. The Avenger and Caliber are newer than this. Their Pacifica/Grand Caravan is on its second platform in this time.

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    Really not anything new here.  As long as they keep making money, why not?  The patform the Explorer, Taurus, and Flex rides on dates back to the late 90s.  As far as I know Chevy still builds the Impala Limited on the W body platform that dates back to the late 80s.  Toyota Corolla?  What, 2003?   If i am not mistaken the Camry is still riding on the platform that came out in 2007.  The key is to keep it as fresh as possible. 

    in any case we better be getting some fantastic replacements for having to wait this long!

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    I'm waiting for an announcement that reveals the true financial state of FCA is much closer to the brink than the brave face they're putting on.

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    5 minutes ago, cp-the-nerd said:

    I'm waiting for an announcement that reveals the true financial state of FCA is much closer to the brink than the brave face they're putting on.

    The unwillingness to face market reality and invest in new product for the domestic US auto market will get them there if they are not there now.

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    It’s not just these vehicles, but also truck and Jeep.  Is it a capital issue?  What gives?  I want to see them prosper with healthy product and profit.  Not just profit.

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    14 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

    It’s not just these vehicles, but also truck and Jeep.  Is it a capital issue?  What gives?  I want to see them prosper with healthy product and profit.  Not just profit.

     

    Could not agree more....product and profit both!

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    The D4 platform the Flex rides on is from 2005 and it's on its way out..because nobody buys Flexes.. Taurus is on the D3 according to Wiki..

    The "New MC" platform the Corolla rides on came out in like '05 but the Corolla adapted it in 2014..If I read it correctly.

    I guess it just seems ancient because where the Mustang and Camaro have come from since then. As for a sedan for the Charger/300 it doesn't seem as large of a deal because tuning for lap times and performance just isn't what they're striving for. But looking at the past platforms and how many years they've been around this is definitely going to be the longest. Platforms in general hang around longer than I thought. Good information to know.

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    45 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

    It’s not just these vehicles, but also truck and Jeep.  Is it a capital issue?  What gives?  I want to see them prosper with healthy product and profit.  Not just profit.

     

    I don't get how you can say that about jeep and Ram?  There is a new ram coming and the current one is selling great.  We get at least 1 new jeep every year and we are are getting at least 2 next year with the Wrangler and Compass. 

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    2 minutes ago, Stew said:

    I don't get how you can say that about jeep and Ram?  There is a new ram coming and the current one is selling great.  We get at least 1 new jeep every year and we are are getting at least 2 next year with the Wrangler and Compass. 

    I might be off base on Jeep, but on truck, they are behind GM and Ford in freshenings.

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    18 minutes ago, ccap41 said:

    The D4 platform the Flex rides on is from 2005 and it's on its way out..because nobody buys Flexes.. Taurus is on the D3 according to Wiki..

    The "New MC" platform the Corolla rides on came out in like '05 but the Corolla adapted it in 2014..If I read it correctly.

    I guess it just seems ancient because where the Mustang and Camaro have come from since then. As for a sedan for the Charger/300 it doesn't seem as large of a deal because tuning for lap times and performance just isn't what they're striving for. But looking at the past platforms and how many years they've been around this is definitely going to be the longest. Platforms in general hang around longer than I thought. Good information to know.

    Interesting note, the Flex's last year is 2020, which should also be the last for the LX cars.  The challenger was never about chasing lap times.  It is a VERY different car from the Mustang and Camaro.  Larger, with a real trunk and true 5 passenger capacity, the Mustang and Camaro are only setup as 4 seaters and the back seat pass3engers are pretty well tortured,.  my bug has more backseat space lol. 

    1 minute ago, Wings4Life said:

    I might be off base on Jeep, but on truck, they are behind GM and Ford in freshenings.

    2018 or 2019 will bring a brand new one.  the last major refresh was in 14 which including modifications to the frame, engines, adaptation of the 8 speed, intro of the ecodiesel, and a very much improved interior, so it really hasn't been that long, especially for a truck. 

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    12 minutes ago, Wings4Life said:

    I might be off base on Jeep, but on truck, they are behind GM and Ford in freshenings.

    The " new " Ram coming is a heavily update of the current truck. It's not " all new " like it's GM and Ford counterparts recent offerings 

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    1 minute ago, FordCosworth said:

    The " new " Ram coming is a heavily update of the current truck. It's not " all new " like it's GM and Ford counterparts recent offerings 

    At worst it is going to be heavily revised, but at least mostly new.  Some spyshots are even showing them with a wider track.  Lighter weight materials will certainly be used. 

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    remember too, the last gen F-150 was actually all new in 04, 08 was a heavy update so you are looking at 04-14 on the same platform.  the ram was all new in 09 so 09-19 is the same as the F-150. 

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    Yeah a ten year span seems acceptable and companies need to start stretching them out to amortize costs better. The LX will be 16 years old for its last year of production 2005-2021. That's the one in question, the LX not the Ram. I'd also think trucks could last longer on an existing platform just because their intended use is a little more direct whereas cars they are using them for multiple names and variants.

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    10 years is not unheard of at all for cars.  Usually 2 successive generations will be based on the same platform, just highly modified for each one as happened with the LX cars in 11 and again in 15.  It seems like fullsize cars tend to hang around on their platforms longer than their midsize counterparts. 

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    Depends on the vehicle.  Remember before the new 2014 Impala came out, the last model (still sold as the limited) was/is based on the W body platform form, i believe, 1988 which puts it at roughly 30 years old.  The taurus is based on a platform dating to the late 90s, Pat\nther went on for over 30s with it's last total interior design happening in 95 and the last full exterior redesign in 1998.  In any case, 15 or 16 is a lot better than 30+ :)

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    Think of this, the Buick Lesabre was on sale when the first LX Dodge Magnum went on sale, and I think 2005 was the first year of the W-body Lacrosse and the Lucerne came in 2006.  Buick has replaced the Lacrosse 2 more times since then and Chrysler/Dodge still have the same basic car.

    The LX was based on a Mercedes chassis (w210 I think) they have done 3 new chassis since then.  Chrysler is so hopeless, you can't compete with 20 year old stuff, they'll be selling Chargers for $19,999 in another year or two.

    This is also Sergio hoping some white knight will ride in and save him with a merger and a line of established good cars that's he can rebadge.  But Honda or Hyundai aren't walking through the door with a line of fresh sedans and crossovers for them to add some chrome and leather and sell as Chrylsers.

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    9 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    Think of this, the Buick Lesabre was on sale when the first LX Dodge Magnum went on sale, and I think 2005 was the first year of the W-body Lacrosse and the Lucerne came in 2006.  Buick has replaced the Lacrosse 2 more times since then and Chrysler/Dodge still have the same basic car.

    The LX was based on a Mercedes chassis (w210 I think) they have done 3 new chassis since then.  Chrysler is so hopeless, you can't compete with 20 year old stuff, they'll be selling Chargers for $19,999 in another year or two.

    This is also Sergio hoping some white knight will ride in and save him with a merger and a line of established good cars that's he can rebadge.  But Honda or Hyundai aren't walking through the door with a line of fresh sedans and crossovers for them to add some chrome and leather and sell as Chrylsers.

    Worst and most uninformed comment yet. 

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    2 hours ago, FordCosworth said:

    The " new " Ram coming is a heavily update of the current truck. It's not " all new " like it's GM and Ford counterparts recent offerings 

    ...and both the Ford and GM products are very well done with excellent reviews. Not sure why it won't let me reply without putting a line through the text.

    Edited by A Horse With No Name
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    1 hour ago, Stew said:

    Depends on the vehicle.  Remember before the new 2014 Impala came out, the last model (still sold as the limited) was/is based on the W body platform form, i believe, 1988 which puts it at roughly 30 years old.  The taurus is based on a platform dating to the late 90s, Pat\nther went on for over 30s with it's last total interior design happening in 95 and the last full exterior redesign in 1998.  In any case, 15 or 16 is a lot better than 30+ :)

    As far as the Panthers go, I still want a Mercury Marauder like I want Oxygen and access to the fair sex.  Kind of hard to argue against all of the unloved miles these did as Police cars and Taxi cars also.

    Call me stupid but I have a soft spot in my heart for these.  I still cringe a bit inside whenever they inevitably get blown up in movies and TV shows also. Was not always the case, but as I get older and I look back...Ford did one heck of a job with these.

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    This just confirms the waste of Billions on bringing back the stupid Italian brands that were already dead rather than investing in the proper labels in the US. 

    No one can prove that the billions wasted on Alfa was worth steeling all the profits from the US labels.

    This also makes me even more solid about the Killing Chrysler label. Dodge will continue on, kill off the 200, 300 and move the Pacifica to Dodge and Chrysler is dead.

    I bet FCA in 2020 will announce the death of the 300, the movement of the Pacifica to Dodge and the delay to milk out everything under Jeep and Ram so they can continue to rap the profits to sink into the death traps from Fiat and Alfa. Garbage auto's with checkered history. Should have left them in the history books.

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      Dodge brand and Ram Truck brand sales increased year over year in March. Dodge brand sales were up 10 percent, led by the 100 percent increase in Dodge Journey crossover sales. Ram Truck brand sales were up 6 percent in March as the Ram pickup and Ram ProMaster van each posted year-over-year sales gains. Sales of the Jeep® Grand Cherokee – the Jeep brand’s volume leader in March – were up 22 percent compared with the same month in 2016. Sales of the Fiat 500 and the all-new Chrysler Pacifica minivan increased year over year as well in the month.
      Dodge Brand
      Four Dodge brand vehicles posted year-over-year sales increases in March, led by the Dodge Journey crossover’s 100 percent sales gain. Sales of the Dodge Challenger were up 17 percent in March. The 2018 Dodge Challenger SRT Demon – the Dodge brand’s new ultimate performance halo car – will be unveiled this month during the 2017 New York International Auto Show week. The Dodge Grand Caravan minivan and the Dodge Viper also turned in year-over-year sales gains for the month. Dodge brand sales were up 10 percent compared with the same month in 2016.
       
      Ram Truck Brand
      Ram pickup truck sales increased 6 percent in March, compared with the same month a year ago. In addition, sales of the Ram ProMaster van were up 24 percent for the month. Ram Truck brand sales, which include the pickup, ProMaster and ProMaster City, were up 6 percent in March. The brand last month unveiled a new exterior color shade for its luxurious and capable Laramie Longhorn line of pickup trucks. RV Match Walnut Brown will serve as the model’s new two-tone contrast color, replacing White Gold. The Ram Laramie Longhorn is the Texas Auto Writers Association’s Luxury Truck of Texas.
       
      FIAT Brand
      Sales of the Fiat 500 increased 12 percent in March, compared with the same month a year ago. Fiat 124 Spider sales were up 39 percent compared with the previous month of February. Experts at Cars.com consider the all-new 2017 Fiat 124 Spider best in its segment, naming it the “Best New Convertible” of 2017.
       
      Jeep® Brand
      The Jeep Grand Cherokee – the brand’s volume leader for the month – recorded a 22 percent year-over-year sales increase in March for its best sales month this year. The all-new 2017 Jeep Compass – the most capable compact SUV ever with the most advanced 4x4 systems in its class – began shipping to Jeep dealerships in March. The new Compass expands the Jeep brand’s global reach with an unmatched combination of attributes that includes legendary and best-in-class 4x4 off-road capability, advanced fuel-efficient powertrains, premium and authentic Jeep design, superior on-road driving dynamics, open-air freedom, and a host of innovative safety and advanced technology offerings.
       
      Chrysler Brand
      Sales of the all-new 2017 Chrysler Pacifica – the most awarded minivan of 2016 and 2017 – were up in its third month of year-over-year comparisons, and increased 3 percent compared with sales in the previous month of February. March also was the Pacifica’s best sales month so far this year. The Pacifica continues to earn a plethora of awards and accolades in 2017, landing on Kelley Blue Book’s list of the “12 Best Family Cars of 2017” in the best minivans category, and “2017 North American Utility of the Year.”
       
      Alfa Romeo Brand
      Alfa Romeo brand sales of 555 units were up 1,191 percent compared with the same month a year ago.
       
      Maserati Brand
      Maserati brand sales of 1,312 units were up 32 percent compared with the same month in 2016.
      U.S. Sales Summary March 2017
                      Month Sales
      Vol %
      CYTD Sales
      Vol %
      Model
      Curr Yr
      Pr Yr
      Change
      Curr Yr
      Pr Yr
      Change
      Compass
      2,651
      7,823
      -66%
      8,552
      22,987
      -63%
      Patriot
      5,968
      9,264
      -36%
      16,180
      29,211
      -45%
      Wrangler
      16,336
      17,586
      -7%
      41,311
      41,922
      -1%
      Cherokee
      14,589
      16,302
      -11%
      40,755
      48,438
      -16%
      Grand Cherokee
      20,374
      16,693
      22%
      56,600
      47,658
      19%
      Renegade
      8,065
      8,872
      -9%
      25,345
      22,154
      14%
      JEEP BRAND
      67,983
      76,540
      -11%
      188,743
      212,370
      -11%
      200
      2,565
      4,971
      -48%
      6,620
      15,915
      -58%
      300
      4,969
      6,172
      -19%
      15,063
      17,141
      -12%
      Town & Country
      95
      14,200
      -99%
      341
      37,228
      -99%
      Pacifica
      9,340
      30
      New
      25,052
      140
      New
      CHRYSLER BRAND
      16,969
      25,373
      -33%
      47,076
      70,424
      -33%
      Dart
      1,578
      5,137
      -69%
      4,658
      16,241
      -71%
      Avenger
      0
      8
      -100%
      0
      23
      -100%
      Charger
      8,236
      8,798
      -6%
      22,319
      26,345
      -15%
      Challenger
      6,225
      5,325
      17%
      15,725
      16,128
      -2%
      Viper
      71
      65
      9%
      178
      137
      30%
      Journey
      11,858
      5,931
      100%
      34,400
      23,892
      44%
      Caravan
      15,602
      13,124
      19%
      40,054
      38,057
      5%
      Durango
      6,506
      7,241
      -10%
      16,729
      20,093
      -17%
      DODGE  BRAND
      50,076
      45,629
      10%
      134,063
      140,916
      -5%
      Ram P/U
      46,384
      43,647
      6%
      119,199
      113,298
      5%
      Cargo Van
      0
      1
      -100%
      0
      3
      -100%
      ProMaster Van
      4,048
      3,263
      24%
      10,047
      8,302
      21%
      ProMaster City
      1,317
      1,886
      -30%
      3,333
      4,551
      -27%
      RAM BRAND
      51,749
      48,797
      6%
      132,579
      126,154
      5%
      Giulia
      484
      0
      New
      966
      0
      New
      Alfa 4C 
      71
      43
      65%
      140
      158
      -11%
      ALFA BRAND
      555
      43
      1191%
      1,106
      158
      600%
      500
      1,671
      1,494
      12%
      4,020
      3,595
      12%
      500L
      106
      535
      -80%
      284
      1,262
      -77%
      500X
      726
      1,056
      -31%
      1,966
      3,258
      -40%
      Spider
      419
      0
      New
      961
      0
      New
      FIAT BRAND
      2,922
      3,085
      -5%
      7,231
      8,115
      -11%
      TOTAL FCA US LLC
      190,254
      199,467
      -5%
      510,798
      558,137
      -8%
          Total Car & MPV
      51,432
      59,902
      -14%
      136,381
      172,370
      -21%
          Total UV's
      87,073
      90,768
      -4%
      241,838
      259,613
      -7%
          Total Truck & LCV
      51,749
      48,797
      6%
      132,579
      126,154
      5%
                    MASERATI BRAND
      1,312
      997
      32%
      3,288
      2,250
      46%
                 
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