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  • William Maley
    William Maley

    By William Maley •

    Don't Expect A High-Performance Stinger Anytime Soon

      It's going to be a while

    Hyundai-Kia's performance head said there is more performance to be unlocked in the Stinger, but it isn't going to happen anytime soon.

    “The car technically has more potential no doubt, but at this point there is no plan to do more,” said Albert Biermann to Motoring.

    “We have to launch this car and see how it does in the market place. What kind of customers do we get? What would be their next requirement from Kia? I think first we need to establish some sort of customer base of these kinds of cars and then maybe next steps can happen. But we need to do this carefully. Step by step."

    In the meantime, Biermann suggested that Kia could do GT variants of existing models - think changes to the exterior, suspension, and powertrain. We know there are GT versions of the Optima and Rio in the cards. Once this happens, Kia might consider hopping up the Stinger.

    “At a later stage, when the GT is more established into a stronger sub-label within Kia, then maybe at some point we need a GTR or something,” said Biermann.

    “But for now there is nothing going on.”

    Source: Motoring

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    A Horse With No Name
    4 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    It will already have higher performance for the dollar than most cars in that price class anyway. 

    I'm betting they're leaving room for Genesis to use a version.

    Thinking you are correct on the Genesis version.

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    daves87rs
    6 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    It will already have higher performance for the dollar than most cars in that price class anyway. 

    I'm betting they're leaving room for Genesis to use a version.

    Agree too..

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    A Horse With No Name

    Actually after doing a bit of research and checking this out, I would have to without any question whatsoever put it above the Fusion Sport and maybe above the 300 as a car I would actually buy.

    Would also buy this over the Nissan Maxima from the other thread...

    Sheet metal is much more interesting than the Acura TLX SH-AWD also...

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    William Maley
    18 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    It will already have higher performance for the dollar than most cars in that price class anyway. 

    I'm betting they're leaving room for Genesis to use a version.

    I highly doubt that considering Biermann's comments made last month,
     

    Quote

    What will not happen is any N version of Genesis models according to Biermann. This is a surprising reversal from last year as Biermann said that Genesis vehicles were in the plans for N in the next five years. No reason was given as to why.

     

     

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    Robert Hall

    Since Genesis is it's own brand, they probably wouldn't use Hyundai's 'N' sub-brand but their own, maybe 'P' for performance... ;)

     

    Edited by Cubical-aka-Moltar
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    A Horse With No Name
    4 hours ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    Since Genesis is it's own brand, they probably wouldn't use Hyundai's 'N' sub-brand but their own, maybe 'P' for performance... ;)

     

    P and low output Stinger do not sound like a good combination...

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    smk4565

    The problem with just doing a more powerful version is the price point. A $50,000 or $60,000 Kia isn't going to sell.  The K900 proves that, the Cadenza is a sales did also.  Their path to success here is Optima level interior with with rear drive and turbo 4 and 6 cylinder engines priced $30-40k.  

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    regfootball

    Hyundai and Kia make their bread and butter vehicles with such low expense that adding a low volume high margin product like this is just toying with the market.  Where GM can't support an SS here, Kia is just playing with resources and seeing if they hit a nerve.

    The Genesis is a dud though in terms of drive.  I hope this is better.

    The pulled Optima styling is a bit of a miss here for me because they had the opportunity to pull Kia into the 2020's here.  Instead, its a warmed over Optima.  Doesn't make it bad, just tired.

    I do like the hatch though.  That saves it.  And the interior is in with the theme.

    For a lot of people this package makes more sense than a Camaro.  Camaro has no backseat, and not much else plus is claustrophobic.  This ventures off into Teslaville.  This sort of packaging may become more what boomers look for in a sports car.

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    A Horse With No Name
    8 hours ago, regfootball said:

    Hyundai and Kia make their bread and butter vehicles with such low expense that adding a low volume high margin product like this is just toying with the market.  Where GM can't support an SS here, Kia is just playing with resources and seeing if they hit a nerve.

    The Genesis is a dud though in terms of drive.  I hope this is better.

    The pulled Optima styling is a bit of a miss here for me because they had the opportunity to pull Kia into the 2020's here.  Instead, its a warmed over Optima.  Doesn't make it bad, just tired.

    I do like the hatch though.  That saves it.  And the interior is in with the theme.

    For a lot of people this package makes more sense than a Camaro.  Camaro has no backseat, and not much else plus is claustrophobic.  This ventures off into Teslaville.  This sort of packaging may become more what boomers look for in a sports car.

    Agree that boomers might like this more in terms of a sports car.  For me...couple of years my youngest will be away at college.  35K would buy a nice used Boxster or Cayman...

    Edited by A Horse With No Name
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    Drew Dowdell
    13 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    The problem with just doing a more powerful version is the price point. A $50,000 or $60,000 Kia isn't going to sell.  The K900 proves that, the Cadenza is a sales did also.  Their path to success here is Optima level interior with with rear drive and turbo 4 and 6 cylinder engines priced $30-40k.  

    The K900 proves nothing.  As a car, I like it, but it looks too much like an Optima for that price. It also has zero sporting intentions, it rides as soft as an LS460.  The Stinger does not look like an Optima. 

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    A Horse With No Name
    1 minute ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    The K900 proves nothing.  As a car, I like it, but it looks too much like an Optima for that price. It also has zero sporting intentions, it rides as soft as an LS460.  The Stinger does not look like an Optima. 

    Stinger actually looks good, the more I look at it the more I like it...it does have the Kia Family language all over it...and does look a bit like an Optima IMHO.

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    Drew Dowdell
    23 minutes ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    Stinger actually looks good, the more I look at it the more I like it...it does have the Kia Family language all over it...and does look a bit like an Optima IMHO.

    Have you seen one in person yet? The long, low hood will let you know this is no camcord competitor.

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    A Horse With No Name
    50 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    Have you seen one in person yet? The long, low hood will let you know this is no camcord competitor.

    No I have not...but I have checked out quite a few photographs...and I really kind of like it!

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    smk4565
    5 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    The K900 proves nothing.  As a car, I like it, but it looks too much like an Optima for that price. It also has zero sporting intentions, it rides as soft as an LS460.  The Stinger does not look like an Optima. 

    So if they bring out a V8 Stinger for $65,000 is anyone going to buy it?  Or will they just buy a BMW or Audi instead.

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    Drew Dowdell
    2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    So if they bring out a V8 Stinger for $65,000 is anyone going to buy it?  Or will they just buy a BMW or Audi instead.

    $65,000 gets you a 4 cylinder in a German car the Stinger's size. You make a compelling case.

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    regfootball
    12 hours ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    Agree that boomers might like this more in terms of a sports car.  For me...couple of years my youngest will be away at college.  35K would buy a nice used Boxster or Cayman...

    sure, 4 cylinders now for the new ones!

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    smk4565
    5 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    $65,000 gets you a 4 cylinder in a German car the Stinger's size. You make a compelling case.

    I like the Stinger,  but it's appeal is the value play.  If it costs as much as a German car that appeal is gone.   The V6 Stinger does 0-60 in 4.9 seconds, same as a $56,000 BMW 540i.  Good value, but I can't see Kia putting a twin turbo V8 in the Stinger and then having to charge way more money.

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    A Horse With No Name
    2 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    I like the Stinger,  but it's appeal is the value play.  If it costs as much as a German car that appeal is gone.   The V6 Stinger does 0-60 in 4.9 seconds, same as a $56,000 BMW 540i.  Good value, but I can't see Kia putting a twin turbo V8 in the Stinger and then having to charge way more money.

    Not all of us feel like blowing 60 grand on a car...Thirty for a John Cooper Works Mini hard top for me and I would be satisfied.

    And while I prefer German cars and have two sitting in my driveway, they are not the only cars on the planet.

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    smk4565

    Which is why the Stinger shouldn't be super high performance and 60 grand.  I read in South Korea it might start at like $27k, which if it is priced like that in the USA, it is incredible value.  The Stinger needs to target the Camaro and Mustang (and Challenger/Charger), go after the sports car buyer who wants more practicality, but doesn't want to give up the performance.  The Stinger is only 2 inches longer than a Camaro or Mustang.  That is Kia's formula for success with this car.   Going after luxury sedans is suicide, when you have sales of a lot of luxury sedans down 20% as buyers go to crossovers.

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    frogger

    I like it more than the 5 door Regal or any fwd based entry lux, maybe more than most rwd entry lux as well, kind of over loving the c300.  Just based on pics, initial reviews, and an auto show exterior view from 20 feet away.

    A shooting brake version would be awesome.

     

     

    Edited by frogger
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    A Horse With No Name
    8 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    Which is why the Stinger shouldn't be super high performance and 60 grand.  I read in South Korea it might start at like $27k, which if it is priced like that in the USA, it is incredible value.  The Stinger needs to target the Camaro and Mustang (and Challenger/Charger), go after the sports car buyer who wants more practicality, but doesn't want to give up the performance.  The Stinger is only 2 inches longer than a Camaro or Mustang.  That is Kia's formula for success with this car.   Going after luxury sedans is suicide, when you have sales of a lot of luxury sedans down 20% as buyers go to crossovers.

    I don't think they will be drawing from the same pool of buyers.

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    A Horse With No Name
    14 hours ago, frogger said:

    I like it more than the 5 door Regal or any fwd based entry lux, maybe more than most rwd entry lux as well, kind of over loving the c300.  Just based on pics, initial reviews, and an auto show exterior view from 20 feet away.

    A shooting brake version would be awesome.

     

     

    Agree on a shooting brake version.

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    Drew Dowdell

    The Stinger is in a weird place in the market. It's not a Camaro/Mustang, too small to be a Charger, not premium enough to be an A7, substantially more powerful and sporty than a Regal Sportback. 

    However, that also makes it rather unique and it might catch a small but solid following. 

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    A Horse With No Name
    1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    The Stinger is in a weird place in the market. It's not a Camaro/Mustang, too small to be a Charger, not premium enough to be an A7, substantially more powerful and sporty than a Regal Sportback. 

    However, that also makes it rather unique and it might catch a small but solid following. 

    Kia needs to do something to bring a little excitement to the brand...I like it...kind of a unique vehicle.

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    smk4565
    2 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    The Stinger is in a weird place in the market. It's not a Camaro/Mustang, too small to be a Charger, not premium enough to be an A7, substantially more powerful and sporty than a Regal Sportback. 

    However, that also makes it rather unique and it might catch a small but solid following. 

    The Camaro is 188-190 inches long, the Mustang 188.4 and the Stinger is 190.  So it is sized right there with those cars has turbo 4 base, probably priced the same, it just has 4 doors.

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    Drew Dowdell
    5 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    The Camaro is 188-190 inches long, the Mustang 188.4 and the Stinger is 190.  So it is sized right there with those cars has turbo 4 base, probably priced the same, it just has 4 doors.

    who cares how long it is.... seriously....

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    smk4565
    8 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    who cares how long it is.... seriously....

    What I am saying is that it is the same size as a Camaro or Mustang with similar performance and price to those 2 but with way more practicality.  Kia should be targeting sports car buyers you want more a more practical car.  Not targeting 3-series drivers who won't consider a Kia and who are going to buy an X3 anyway because they want to get out of a sedan and into an SUV for more practicality.  

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    A Horse With No Name
    47 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

    What I am saying is that it is the same size as a Camaro or Mustang with similar performance and price to those 2 but with way more practicality.  Kia should be targeting sports car buyers you want more a more practical car.  Not targeting 3-series drivers who won't consider a Kia and who are going to buy an X3 anyway because they want to get out of a sedan and into an SUV for more practicality.  

    I think it will be a different sort of buyer all together.

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    Drew Dowdell
    2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

    What I am saying is that it is the same size as a Camaro or Mustang with similar performance and price to those 2 but with way more practicality.  Kia should be targeting sports car buyers you want more a more practical car.  Not targeting 3-series drivers who won't consider a Kia and who are going to buy an X3 anyway because they want to get out of a sedan and into an SUV for more practicality.  

    I don't think there will be much Mustang/Stinger cross shopping though I agree with you that there should be.

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    A Horse With No Name
    7 hours ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    I don't think there will be much Mustang/Stinger cross shopping though I agree with you that there should be.

    Personally a huge part of me would rather have the Stinger...it a fresh idea rather than a remake of a fifty years old one.

    If it is enough cheaper than a three series I could see cross shopping... especially if you are like me and have three kids in College.

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    Drew Dowdell
    1 hour ago, A Horse With No Name said:

    Personally a huge part of me would rather have the Stinger...it a fresh idea rather than a remake of a fifty years old one.

    If it is enough cheaper than a three series I could see cross shopping... especially if you are like me and have three kids in College.

    I could never cross shop a Stinger with a Mustang or Camaro simply because a coupe would never be allowed.  The fact that the Regal Sportback is interesting to him and is a hatchback means that the Stinger is a possibility.  I like the looks of the Regal and especially the interior better though. 

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    A Horse With No Name
    23 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    I could never cross shop a Stinger with a Mustang or Camaro simply because a coupe would never be allowed.  The fact that the Regal Sportback is interesting to him and is a hatchback means that the Stinger is a possibility.  I like the looks of the Regal and especially the interior better though. 

    Like I said, car shopping with a significant other makes life interesting.  I really liked the Regal and LaCrosse but my wife did not.

    For the $34K this costs I would be buying  John Cooper Works MINI or saving a little bit of coin and getting a Golf R.

    Regal would also I think have better sound deadening than the Stinger....I like listening to Music when I drive, this is a real consideration for me.

    Also entering into the Calculus...GM has much better paint and rust proofing than KIA IMHO....living in Ohio....that would be a consideration.

    But with my youngest a Junior in High school this year....and probably going away to college when she graduates...I think I have bought my last practical car.

    MINI JCW FTW, I think...

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    Drew Dowdell
    Just now, A Horse With No Name said:

    Like I said, car shopping with a significant other makes life interesting.  I really liked the Regal and LaCrosse but my wife did not.

    For the $34K this costs I would be buying  John Cooper Works MINI or saving a little bit of coin and getting a Golf R.

    Regal would also I think have better sound deadening than the Stinger....I like listening to Music when I drive, this is a real consideration for me.

    Also entering into the Calculus...GM has much better paint and rust proofing than KIA IMHO....living in Ohio....that would be a consideration.

    But with my youngest a Junior in High school this year....and probably going away to college when she graduates...I think I have bought my last practical car.

    MINI JCW FTW, I think...

     

    We're in such an odd situation.  We have no kids nor any plans for kids, yet we need to plan our vehicle purchases around hauling some combo of our 7 nieces and nephews, or my in-laws around. As much as we like the Encore, it was really a mistake on our part going with a vehicle that small. 

    Unless I find an Avalanche, my choices are likely going to be Durango / Explorer / Tahoe.   His will either be pre-owned CTS or leased Regal Sportback... or if things really change for us, a new S90. 

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    Drew Dowdell
    3 minutes ago, Cubical-aka-Moltar said:

    Sounds like you need a minivan. 

    The Pacifica almost has me convinced....

    But I'd like to do a bit of mild off-roading. So Avalanche/Tahoe are at the top of my list. 

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    G. David Felt
    17 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

     

    We're in such an odd situation.  We have no kids nor any plans for kids, yet we need to plan our vehicle purchases around hauling some combo of our 7 nieces and nephews, or my in-laws around. As much as we like the Encore, it was really a mistake on our part going with a vehicle that small. 

    Unless I find an Avalanche, my choices are likely going to be Durango / Explorer / Tahoe.   His will either be pre-owned CTS or leased Regal Sportback... or if things really change for us, a new S90. 

    After having test drove many times the Ford Explorer in all trims, the only one worth considering is the Explorer Sport. Durangos just rock as do Tahoes. I would probably take either Durango or Tahoe with the V8's over the TTV6 of the ford. Plus I actually think the fit and finish is better in those two. Course the Son choose the Jeep GC over the Explorer and Durango. He loves his Jeep's.

    8 minutes ago, Drew Dowdell said:

    The Pacifica almost has me convinced....

    But I'd like to do a bit of mild off-roading. So Avalanche/Tahoe are at the top of my list. 

    Hyrbid Tahoe, Yukon or Escalade. They are awesome and I wish GM would bring them back.

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    Drew Dowdell
    Just now, dfelt said:

    After having test drove many times the Ford Explorer in all trims, the only one worth considering is the Explorer Sport. Durangos just rock as do Tahoes. I would probably take either Durango or Tahoe with the V8's over the TTV6 of the ford. Plus I actually think the fit and finish is better in those two. Course the Son choose the Jeep GC over the Explorer and Durango. He loves his Jeep's.

    I'd like the Jeep GC too... but if I'm going to get that type of vehicle, I'm thinking a 3-row is preferable.   

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    Robert Hall

    The Durango is nice.....as is the Tahoe.  Had a '15 Tahoe as a rental a couple years ago, really enjoyed driving it...quite nice for a BOF full size, drove better than the previous gen Yukon I had driven.  I don't need a 3-row, so the GC is fine for me..75% of the time it's just me in the car. 

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    A Horse With No Name

    Jeep GC would be my choice 100 percent...

    1 hour ago, Drew Dowdell said:

     

    We're in such an odd situation.  We have no kids nor any plans for kids, yet we need to plan our vehicle purchases around hauling some combo of our 7 nieces and nephews, or my in-laws around. As much as we like the Encore, it was really a mistake on our part going with a vehicle that small. 

    Unless I find an Avalanche, my choices are likely going to be Durango / Explorer / Tahoe.   His will either be pre-owned CTS or leased Regal Sportback... or if things really change for us, a new S90. 

    A larger vehicle would make sense in so many ways....and you could get rid of the Honda...

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      By A Horse With No Name · Posted

      IIRC the other founder of Turning Point died of Covid after denying safety steps for covid or something. You can argue morality and logic, but the impacts/results/effects of what you do are objective and real.  A bit of non political fun, this is gorgeous.  If I wasn't turning 60 years old today, I would drive that damn thing. 
    • surreal1272
      Random Thoughts Thread

      By surreal1272 · Posted

      100% spot on analysis of Kirk. Yes, the way he died was horrible, no matter what side of the political spectrum on which you stand. However, let us not ignore the man's ACTUAL words and actions that helped fuel the "radicalization" of certain factions in this country and create this exact scenario where someone decided to take matters into their own armed hands. Ten years of pure madness fueled by one giant narcissistic A-Hole in D.C.
    • A Horse With No Name
      Random Thoughts Thread

      By A Horse With No Name · Posted

      This guy gets the toxic state of America right on so many levels. it's pretty much cooked.  Drew feel free to delete this if need be. 
    • A Horse With No Name
      Random Thoughts Thread

      By A Horse With No Name · Posted

      I like a lot of this guys analysis, he explains well why American manufacturing is declining at a greater and greater pace and why jobs are moving away from the United States.   

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