December 2019 Sales Figure Ticker

Nissan and Infiniti can't stop the bleeding.  That company is in big trouble because they don't even have new stuff coming or any desirable product.  FCA outside of Ram is looking pretty weak too, I imagine PSA will make changes.

OUCH, the blood is gonna flow I think for a good while longer.

Hmmm...starting to see the recession- oops, slowdown creeping in there. Betting even even more of a drop next month- thanks to the new issues that came up today....

Things are not good for Nissan at all...

Just hoping G

m does not panic and start cutting a bunch more models-that would be a bad idea.

Adding to the rumors that more models will find their way to Mexico....

And Ford is going to regret slashing that car line.....

Carlos Ghosn is on his way back to save Nissan, Mitsubishi and Renault, he can run all 3 out of a bunker in Lebanon.  Turn around expected!

PSA has a lot of cleaning up to do, and they will probably be merciless on FCA.

As for GM, not sure what they can do for this year at all.

Oh, to be an Infiniti dealer right now...terrifying.

It's not an easy market, so for any brand, getting your act together and focused is vital. When you're not doing what you should, the numbers only more clearly show it...

13 hours ago, riviera74 said:

PSA has a lot of cleaning up to do, and they will probably be merciless on FCA.

As for GM, not sure what they can do for this year at all.

Only Jeep might make it alive out of FCA....

^ Can't argue against Ram or Dodge, too.

Infiniti’s turn around will come in the form of a badge job Kicks and Rogue.  Slap some leather and wood trim and a big touch screen in there with a VC turbo and you have Infiniti QX20 and QX40 that they can sell for $29,900 and $34,900 respectively and they can fleet them out to rental car companies.

47 minutes ago, smk4565 said:

Infiniti’s turn around will come in the form of a badge job Kicks and Rogue.  Slap some leather and wood trim and a big touch screen in there with a VC turbo and you have Infiniti QX20 and QX40 that they can sell for $29,900 and $34,900 respectively and they can fleet them out to rental car companies.

Disagree, no need for a luxury brand to enter the Toyota / Chevrolet realm much like MB has done. Cheapens the status of the brand.

2 hours ago, dfelt said:

Disagree, no need for a luxury brand to enter the Toyota / Chevrolet realm much like MB has done. Cheapens the status of the brand.

Infiniti is dead is it is, what is the difference?  And what have Cadillac, Lincoln, Acura and Lexus done?  Gotten sales of crossover versions of Escape, Equinox, Rav4, etc.  I'd be surprised if there wasn't a Cadillac XT3 within 3 years based on the Trailblazer/Encore GX.

The Q50/Q60 are basically fleet luxury and lease specials for people that don't want to pay Lexus or BMW prices.   The QX80 will never compete with Escalade, Navigator or the big German SUVs there are far superior and the QX-Pathfinder isn't competitive since the Pathfinder isn't any good.  Only place Infiniti can compete is in the $30-50k crossover segment, where there are a ton of entries but it is a big space.  

2 hours ago, smk4565 said:

Infiniti is dead is it is, what is the difference?  And what have Cadillac, Lincoln, Acura and Lexus done?

Cadillac, Lincoln, Acura & Lexus provide their customers products they want. Products they potentially chose over BMW or MB's hundreds of 'same sausage' CUVs. Why haven't the Germans triplets put all these other brands out of business years ago??

And what you said above about infiniti is the same thing you said about Lincoln like 2-3 years ago.

 

Lincoln has revived themselves off Ford SUVs, although Lincoln did a good job dressing them up.  Infiniti should do the sane but Nissan has no new product either.

Cadillac is also using the same sausage different length strategy with their trio of FWD crossovers and It is why their sales don’t look like Infiniti’s.

Just like mercedes does a good job of dressing up the e-class into their s-class, right?

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

Just like mercedes does a good job of dressing up the e-class into their s-class, right?

The S-class was on sale first, both ride on the MRA platform, but I wouldn’t call the S-class a dressed up anything.  
 

The Corsair, Aviator and Navigator are mechanical twins to Fords, they also get clobbered in sales by X3/X5/X7 and GLC/GLE/GLS.  

How do the glc/gle/gls do vs the Ford and Lincolnz combined? ?

1 hour ago, balthazar said:

How do the glc/gle/gls do vs the Ford and Lincolnz combined? ?

Well they aren't priced against Fords.  

Ahh; but you implied they were the same vehicle.
Aviator interior / Explorer interior - not seeing anything carried over :

'20 mercedes GLE competes directly with the Lincoln Aviator (MSRP base - L: $51.1K, MB: $53.7K).
But the merceds is down on HP (L: 400-494, MB: 362-480), has a shorter wheelbase & less leg room, has 1 less gear, and frankly it just seems dated; like daimler has been using the same recipe for a decade & a half now. Aviator is extremely fresh and you can see the effort Lincoln put into it just from a quick walk-around.

Edited January 6, 20206 yr by balthazar

15 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Ahh; but you implied they were the same vehicle.
Aviator interior / Explorer interior - not seeing anything carried over :

I said Lincolns are mechanical twins to Ford, although with some suspension and engine upgrades.  I think Lincoln has done a good job on their interiors differentiating them and upgrading them from the Ford counter parts.  They do a better job than Acura, Cadillac or Infiniti do with their SUVs.  Lexus does a good job making theirs not look like Toyotas either.   Lincoln interiors are also distinct, they aren't a copy off someone else, like what Genesis usually does.

See; it's all in your mindset/approach. You view these as 'the same but well differentiated', whereas I feel they are 2 different vehicles that share some mechanicals. It's not that Ford 'hid something'; they developed 2 vehicles that are completely 'interface'-unique, yet share some mechanicals. In other words- the Lincoln is NOT a 'changed Ford' - that's not how these vehicles are developed.

Ford and Lincoln are no longer(finally) just badge-jobs. Not long ago all Lincoln's were was a few small changes and they called it a day. Now, Lincoln gets their own treatment and share only underpinnings. I think it was a year or two ago they came out and said all of the switch-gear would be Lincoln-specific as well, so you really wouldn't see Ford when sitting in a Lincoln. I think that might have been when the current Navigator came out. 

This was even back in 2016. 

Edited January 6, 20206 yr by ccap41

Infiniti, which is a dead in the water brand, outsold Lincoln in 2019.  That's where Lincoln is.  I think Lincoln will beat Infiniti in 2020 but even that makes Lincoln the 7th best selling luxury brand in their own market, and Lincoln has very little impact outside of North America.  

[aaaaaaaaaaaand; we're off on another conversational irrelevancy.]

GM down over 2%. When you cut ‘low profit cars’ and sedans like the Cruze and such you may be losing profits but weakening your market share can also be detrimental long term.
 

actually too.  Ram up 18% that alone contributed a lot to GM’s decline.  

Edited January 8, 20206 yr by regfootball

1 hour ago, regfootball said:

GM down over 2%. When you cut ‘low profit cars’ and sedans like the Cruze and such you may be losing profits but weakening your market share can also be detrimental long term.
 

actually too.  Ram up 18% that alone contributed a lot to GM’s decline.  

Sucky Chevrolet Truck / SUV styling does not help as they drop in sales behind Ram and the leader Ford.

1 hour ago, regfootball said:

When you cut ‘low profit cars’ and sedans like the Cruze and such you may be losing profits but weakening your market share can also be detrimental long term.

Losing market share while keeping the same number of vehicle lines is a Not Good.
But cutting under-performing lines and losing market share is something that the balance sheet needs to be seen to evaluate.
 

15 hours ago, dfelt said:

Sucky Chevrolet Truck / SUV styling does not help as they drop in sales behind Ram and the leader Ford.

Let's all not forget the greedy UAW strike for 40 days didn't help the General in sales, only helped it's crosstown rival FoMoCo and FCA-PSA with their contract negotiations.

I prefer the front-end and taillights of the new Sierra in AT4 guise with the power of the 6.2L over the Silverado, but I've driven a comparable 2019 6.2L 10 spd Silverado LTZ at my current Chevy dealer and it's a pretty impressive all around ride minus some needed interior trim work, and late 2020's should be a whole new ballgame with the interior. GM seems woke and are updating the interior trim for 2021 MY higher end models which will probably be out in 6 or 7 months and the 6.2L/10 spd. is now offered in 2020 LT and LT Trailboss models which will all help with sales. All new 2021 Full-size SUV's from all 3 GM brands using the new chassis will be out in probably the same time and definitely by September to hold on as the sales leader by a large margin.

It's interesting because I sat in a Ram Laramie Longhorn at the Phoenix IAS and didn't see anything to get excited about, I thought everything looked and felt kinda cheap, the faux woodgrain and faux leather on dash and center console with plastic wax feeling stitching were in your face and seemed overdone, it didn't look all that good in person so I don't see what all the hype is about. The huge touchscreen was too much, fingerprints and dust would drive me nuts too as my meticulous ways would be in overdrive haha. I do think GM needs a slightly larger touchscreen with the new interior layout, but nothing Tesla like or extreme.

I also have to say WTH is with the huge bell housing bulge on the passenger side footwell of the Ram?! You only have literally 6 or 8 inches of foot room all to the right. ?

The AT4 looks freakin great. 

GM is not "woke". 

50 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

the 6.2L/10 spd. is now offered in 2020 LT and LT Trailboss models which will all help with sales.

Saw that in the build/price online- people were asking for that loudly & Chevy did it. I wish the 6.2 ran on regular tho.

40 minutes ago, balthazar said:

Saw that in the build/price online- people were asking for that loudly & Chevy did it. I wish the 6.2 ran on regular tho.

Yep. I don't mind the 5 to 6 bucks extra per tank 60 or 65 bucks to fill up not a huge deal and it does make a difference in performance.

It is not 5-6 bucks a tank more for premium in a Silverado.

28 gallon tank * $0.60 premium = $16.80 per tank. 

If your premium isn't 0.60 we can do $0.50 = $14.00 per tank

1 hour ago, ccap41 said:

GM is not "woke". 

Let me make it clearer since you didn't comprehend. GM "is woke" in the fact that they are listening to their customers more which is why they are making the quick and early changes to their full-size truck lineup and adding to or updating their SUV/CUV lineup as well. In the past you had to practically beat your head against the front glass at the Ren Cen. to get their attention. Ford and Chrysler are in the same boat. Just like Balth also explained above, "people were asking for that loudly & Chevy did it."  It's a good thing.   

Edited January 8, 20206 yr by USA-1

Just now, ccap41 said:

It is not 5-6 bucks a tank more for premium in a Silverado.

28 gallon tank * $0.60 premium = $16.80 per tank. 

If your premium isn't 0.60 we can do $0.50 = $14.00 per tank

Since you wanna play, it's a 26 gal. tank. It's about $.30 more here in AZ for premium even at Shell. $7.80 at a $.30 premium per 26 gal. Sorry I was a $1.80 off LOL!!   

11 minutes ago, USA-1 said:

Since you wanna play, it's a 26 gal. tank. It's about $.30 more here in AZ for premium even at Shell. $7.80 at a $.30 premium per 26 gal. Sorry I was a $1.80 off LOL!!   

Phoenix is more an anomaly as the rest of the country averages $0.60/gal over regular. 

https://www.erieinsurance.com/blog/regular-and-premium-gas 

Sorry, I read 24-28 and assumed 28 was pretty standard but with the crew cab being the most popular option that is a 24 gallon tank. I don't see 26 anywhere.

https://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/vehicles/silverado/2019.tab1.html

I'll take a national average over one single station for statistical comparisons. 

24 gallons * $0.60 = $14.40/tank. 

Just now, ccap41 said:

Phoenix is more an anomaly as the rest of the country averages $0.60/gal over regular.

Sorry, I read 24-28 and assumed 28 was pretty standard but with the crew cab being the most popular option that is a 24 gallon tank. I don't see 26 anywhere.

https://media.chevrolet.com/media/us/en/chevrolet/vehicles/silverado/2019.tab1.html

Not really an anomaly to the rest of the country. Attached a couple more Gas Buddy shots from Top Tier gas stations in the NW part of the country for you. You're getting railed on gasoline in STL apparently. I know LA is a ridiculous anomaly the other way, but everything in So. Cal is ridiculous.   

It's been a 26 gal. tank for decades in the Silverado and Sierra double and crew cab short and standard bed, 34 gal. for long bed. https://g.co/kgs/coqM6M Ford and Dodge were the same, pretty industry standard. The T1 CC SB might have gone to a slightly smaller tank from 26 to 24 gal., which would make it even less $ per tank.

I use this for state by state average gas prices:

https://gasprices.aaa.com/state-gas-price-averages/

Washington State averages $3.14 per regular gallon of Gas.

Washington State averages $3.52 per Premium Gallon of Gas.

So a 28 gallon tank is $87.92 to fill up on regular or $98.56 on Premium, difference of $10.64

If you can afford to drive the truck with the 6.2L / 10sp transmission, I do not see roughly $10 bucks being a breaking point. After all I average between $400 to $500 a month in my SS alone for Gas and that does require Premium.

The Escalade is about $150 to $200 a month as it is not a daily driver.

Why are we basing fuel costs with how big a gasoline tank is?

A 26 gallon fuel tank wont make your truck spend more money on gasoline than a 24 gallon one.

If it takes you 100 bucks per week for fuel (or 400 bucks per month) than it costs you 100 bucks per week for fuel (or 400 bucks per month) no matter how big your gas tank is...

Having a smaller gasoline tank just makes you spend less per fill-up, but makes you visit the gas station more often.  In the long run, having a smaller gas tank may cost you more gas as you may spend more fuel re-fueling IF your gas station that you go to more often than not is OUT of your way traveling unnecessarily if you had a bigger gas tan... 

(But then again...having a bigger gas tank may make you spend more fuel as additional weight also burns more fuel...) (But... )

And if it aint out of your way, you spend MORE time there as you stop more often...and that is just a perfect waste of time...  plus if you are the type of person to always buy some sort of stupid trinket or lottery ticket or junk food at the gas station, then you are spending more money NEEDLESSLY...

Just a rant...Im bored...

Edited January 8, 20206 yr by oldshurst442

12 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Why are we basing fuel costs with how big a gasoline tank is?

A 26 gallon fuel tank wont make your truck spend more money on gasoline than a 24 gallon one.

If it takes you 100 bucks per week for fuel (or 400 bucks per month) than it costs you 100 bucks per week for fuel (or 400 bucks per month) no matter how big your gas tank is...

Having a smaller gasoline tank just makes you spend less per full-up, but makes you visit the gas station more often.  In the long run, having a smaller gas tank may cost you more gas as you may spend more fuel re-fueling IF your gas station that you go to more often than not is OUT of your way...  And if it aint out of your way, you spend MORE time there as you stop more often...and that is just a perfect waste of time...  plus if you are the type of person to always buy some sort of stupid trinket or lottery ticket or junk food at the gas station, then you are spending more money NEEDLESSLY...

Just a rant...Im bored...

 

Happy New Year man!

Edited January 8, 20206 yr by USA-1

Happy New Year @USA-1!!!

But not only to you...

But EVERYBODY!!!

18 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

Happy New Year @USA-1!!!

But not only to you...

But EVERYBODY!!!

 

 

Good point once again!!

26 minutes ago, dfelt said:

I use this for state by state average gas prices:

https://gasprices.aaa.com/state-gas-price-averages/

Washington State averages $3.14 per regular gallon of Gas.

Washington State averages $3.52 per Premium Gallon of Gas.

So a 28 gallon tank is $87.92 to fill up on regular or $98.56 on Premium, difference of $10.64

If you can afford to drive the truck with the 6.2L / 10sp transmission, I do not see roughly $10 bucks being a breaking point. After all I average between $400 to $500 a month in my SS alone for Gas and that does require Premium.

The Escalade is about $150 to $200 a month as it is not a daily driver.

+1!!

Edited January 8, 20206 yr by USA-1

38 minutes ago, dfelt said:

difference of $10.64

If you can afford to drive the truck with the 6.2L / 10sp transmission, I do not see roughly $10 bucks being a breaking point. After all I average between $400 to $500 a month in my SS alone for Gas and that does require Premium.

That 10 bucks is per fill-up.

As a one-time shot, 10 bucks is nothing, but if you are filling up two or three times a week (not unreasonable for some to fill-up 3 times a week) , that 10 bucks translates to (we will do twice a week) becomes 20 bucks. Per month that translates to 80 bucks...

@ 80 bucks...THAT becomes quite pricey.

I know I want to do other things with my money than give an extra 80 bucks to big oil... 

Keep in mind we are talking about a daily driven car...no need to have a premium gasolined daily driven car when a regular gasolined car can and does the same job. Which is getting from point A to Point B. Unless of course its a job and/or business related daily driven car. 

As a fun car to drive around, a premium gasolined car...well...that sounds like...fun.   

Edited January 8, 20206 yr by oldshurst442

4 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

That 10 bucks is per fill-up.

As a one-time shot, 10 bucks is nothing, but if you are filling up two or three times a week (not unreasonable for some to fill-up 3 times a week) , that 10 bucks translates to (we will do twice a week) becomes 20 bucks. Per month that translates to 80 bucks...

@ 80 bucks...THAT becomes quite pricey.

I know I want to do other things with my money than give an extra 80 bucks to big oil... 

Keep in mind we are talking about a daily driven car...no need to have a premium gasolined daily driven car. Unless of course its a job and/or business related daily driven car.

As a fun car to drive around, a premium gasolined car..well...that sounds like...fun. 

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Then that constant need to run to a gas station and top off especially if bad weather is coming makes going EV just that much better where you just plug in at night at your home and know you have a full tank of Acceleration fuel in the morning.   

Surprised no one that has emoji making skills has not taken this picture of a Rivian and made that green indicator line move from left to right in a empty to full indication.

1 minute ago, dfelt said:

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Then that constant need to run to a gas station and top off especially if bad weather is coming makes going EV just that much better where you just plug in at night at your home and know you have a full tank of Acceleration fuel in the morning.   

EXACTLY!

But dont kid yourself. If electric power will be the fuel of the future, Big Evil Oil will just be replaced by  Big Evil Darth Sidious Electric...   

Electric power companies will now control our transportation needs.  They WILL increase the prices...

Dont mind me...Im ranting again.

Im bored immensely...

47 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

a bigger gas tan

Most gas stations around here have canopies, I can honestly say I've never had a gas tan.

Or...

A gas tan...

a tan that you get by a burning Italian sports car?

14 minutes ago, dfelt said:

...where you just plug in at night at your home and know you have a full tank of Acceleration fuel in the morning.

If every EV owner did this, the public chargers would all be completely empty til at least noon.
Wonder why I always see them with at least a half dozen cars there at 9AM?

39 minutes ago, oldshurst442 said:

As a one-time shot, 10 bucks is nothing, but if you are filling up two or three times a week (not unreasonable for some to fill-up 3 times a week) , that 10 bucks translates to (we will do twice a week) becomes 20 bucks. Per month that translates to 80 bucks...

no need to have a premium gasolined daily driven car when a regular gasolined car can and does the same job. Which is getting from point A to Point B.

Who actually fills up the tank two or three times a week, maybe the mailman or a police officer in a Tahoe PPV?! LOL!!

That would be a boring A to B drive for you then

The extra dough is totally worth it to me, life is too short to spend it in a boring A to B car everyday. My LS1 5.7L singing the SBC melody while running on Premium or my Silvy 6.2L SBC, Tuned and running on Premium? Yeah, totally worth it. Same if not better mileage and the performance gains in my truck on a Premium tune compared to even a Stock tune is pretty significant. Of course I'm running an Airaid CAI kit and Magnaflow exhaust with the tune to complete it ?

Edited January 9, 20206 yr by USA-1

2 hours ago, ccap41 said:

It is not 5-6 bucks a tank more for premium in a Silverado.

28 gallon tank * $0.60 premium = $16.80 per tank. 

If your premium isn't 0.60 we can do $0.50 = $14.00 per tank

usually in my neck, premium is +40 over regular at most typical stations but i get most of my fillups now at costco.  Premium at Costco most days is about 20 cents higher than regular at typical stations.  You can argue the true cost of a costco membership, but if you are getting one already due to the great meat, big ass cheesecake and pumpkin pie, and the GM costco rebate potential, then it can help save on premium.