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    NHTSA Opens Investigation Into Fatal Crash With Tesla's Autopilot


    • It wasn't a question if, but when? Well, the first fatality with autonomous technology has been brought to light.

    The National Highway Transportation Safety Administration (NHTSA) has opened an investigation into a fatal crash dealing with Tesla's Autopilot system.

     

    In a statement given to Reuters, NHTSA said the driver of a 2015 Tesla Model S was killed while the vehicle was in the Autopilot mode. The crash took place on May 7th in Williston, Florida when a tractor-trailer was making a left turn across a divided highway. Tesla in a lengthy blog post said: "neither Autopilot nor the driver noticed the white side of the tractor trailer against a brightly lit sky, so the brake was not applied." The Model S drove underneath the trailer with the bottom making contact with the windshield.

     

    The Verge reports the driver was 40-year old Joshua Brown who filmed various videos of his Model S. One of the videos on his YouTube channel showed his Model avoiding an accident with a bucket truck.

     

    NHTSA's investigation will look the design and performance of the Model S and its various components, including Autopilot. It should be noted this is standard practice for NHTSA to investigate any crash where the vehicle's system could be at fault.

     

    Tesla's blog post says this is first known fatality in over 130 million miles since Autopilot was turned on.

     

    Autopilot has been a source of controversy since Tesla rolled it out last year. Numerous videos of Model S owners filming themselves in dangerous situations and sometimes showing the system not working caused Tesla to make some drastic changes. These included limiting the types of road the system could be turned on and making checks to see if there was someone sitting in the driver's seat. Tesla has said time and time again that Autopilot is a beta feature and that the driver needed to pay attention.

     

    "Autopilot is getting better all the time, but it is not perfect and still requires the driver to remain alert," Tesla said in their post.

     

    "It is important to note that Tesla disables Autopilot by default and requires explicit acknowledgement that the system is new technology and still in a public beta phase before it can be enabled. When drivers activate Autopilot, the acknowledgment box explains, among other things, that Autopilot “is an assist feature that requires you to keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times," and that "you need to maintain control and responsibility for your vehicle” while using it. "

     

    Nevertheless, this crash puts autonomous technologies and Tesla under some intense scrutiny.

     

    Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required), The Detroit News, Reuters, Tesla, The Verge

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    Yawn, sad for the loss of life but like anything that pushes the limits of what one can do in an auto, there is always going to be accidents.

     

    Imperfect humans building imperfect autos.

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    They say that one day, artificial intelligence will  rival and exceed human intelligence...and they say that that day will be coming sooner rather than later.  Faster than we think...

    After this fatal accident, alls I could say is that we arent there yet.

     

    I wanna make another point....I want to say that although artificial intelligence may be just around the corner, artificial stupidity has a very very very long way to go before it surpasses human stupidity...

     

    A 40 year old put all his faith on a machine...on a technology that will probably NEVER be perfected as long as humans are in control...whether other humans are still driving on the very same roads as these machines or are in control of any input programming...

     

    Darwinism in effect is alls Im saying...self destruction seems to be a human thing....

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    They say that one day, artificial intelligence will  rival and exceed human intelligence...and they say that that day will be coming sooner rather than later.  Faster than we think...

    After this fatal accident, alls I could say is that we arent there yet.

     

    I wanna make another point....I want to say that although artificial intelligence may be just around the corner, artificial stupidity has a very very very long way to go before it surpasses human stupidity...

     

    A 40 year old put all his faith on a machine...on a technology that will probably NEVER be perfected as long as humans are in control...whether other humans are still driving on the very same roads as these machines or are in control of any input programming...

     

    Darwinism in effect is alls Im saying...self destruction seems to be a human thing....

    So true,

     

    This is why I think all the Seat belt laws are just a pure taxation / money grab on the population. You cannot nor do we need to protect society against stupidity. It is what cleans out the idiots no matter how smart they are.

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    It's the insurance companies.

     

    It's win-win. Higher premiums for less safe cars means people gravitate to higher safety cars when buying new or used.

     

    Higher safety cars themselves add more cost and compromise ... the cost of safety passed down into the purchase price, the extra tech options needs to overcome piss poor outward visibility, among other things...higher weight of more airbags...more weight or if in a performance car, extra cost of keeping weight low passed to consumer.

     

    And autopilot, NOT at all meant as a safety feature...now means Tesla insurance premiums will somehow find a healthy increase.

     

    And then...higher price car....higher premium - yet even though the car does its job better - reduces fatality...which means smaller payouts...repair coverage is easily favored over a fatal accident coverage...

     

    When they get to set the rules as to what makes a vehicle safe - they can perpetually increase the cost of vehicles, and the only thing setting things straight is that the manufacturers are becoming competitive as hell...

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    If it takes one person to die to prevent other idiots from abusing a system that clearly states driver interaction is required, them's the brakes. 

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    If it takes one person to die to prevent other idiots from abusing a system that clearly states driver interaction is required, them's the brakes. 

    So....if it takes driver awareness to be able to have driver interaction to help autonomous driving prevent an accident....then what is the point?

     

    1. Just be aware while you drive in the first place and cut this shyte with LCD screens and GPS maps and connectivity and JUST DRIVE the PHOKING CAR!!!

    Do away with all these sensors and aids that are supposedly there to help us...they dont help us...they make us rely on them and make us lazier and dumber in the process...

     

    2. DONT GIVE DRIVERS LICENSES TO EVERY TOM, DICK and HARRY...

    Let these distracted and/or poor reflexes and poor judgement human beings use Lyft and Uber services  if those people dont want or cant use public transportation...

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    ccap41

    Posted (edited) · Report

     

    They say that one day, artificial intelligence will  rival and exceed human intelligence...and they say that that day will be coming sooner rather than later.  Faster than we think...

    After this fatal accident, alls I could say is that we arent there yet.

     

    I wanna make another point....I want to say that although artificial intelligence may be just around the corner, artificial stupidity has a very very very long way to go before it surpasses human stupidity...

     

    A 40 year old put all his faith on a machine...on a technology that will probably NEVER be perfected as long as humans are in control...whether other humans are still driving on the very same roads as these machines or are in control of any input programming...

     

    Darwinism in effect is alls Im saying...self destruction seems to be a human thing....

    So true,

     

    This is why I think all the Seat belt laws are just a pure taxation / money grab on the population. You cannot nor do we need to protect society against stupidity. It is what cleans out the idiots no matter how smart they are.

     

     

    So freakin' true. 

     

    I HATE seat belt and helmet laws. I am an avid user of both and won't travel w/o either. I put my seat belt on to move my car around the driveway out of habit but I think it is absolute bull$h! for something like that to be a law. Unless all of our insurance premiums go down because they have less medical bills to pay then it's stupid. This is one thing that gets under my skin really quick. If people are stupid enough to not wear them, let them pay the price. If somebody is that stupid we don't need them anyway as a society as they must be short sighted, lazy, stupid, or all the above. 

     

    If it takes one person to die to prevent other idiots from abusing a system that clearly states driver interaction is required, them's the brakes. 

    So....if it takes driver awareness to be able to have driver interaction to help autonomous driving prevent an accident....then what is the point?

     

    1. Just be aware while you drive in the first place and cut this shyte with LCD screens and GPS maps and connectivity and JUST DRIVE the PHOKING CAR!!!

    Do away with all these sensors and aids that are supposedly there to help us...they dont help us...they make us rely on them and make us lazier and dumber in the process...

     

    2. DONT GIVE DRIVERS LICENSES TO EVERY TOM, DICK and HARRY...

    Let these distracted and/or poor reflexes and poor judgement human beings use Lyft and Uber services  if those people dont want or cant use public transportation...

     

    +1 - as I've used all of mine up today. 

     

    But I am on the side of "if one person has to die to prevent others from abusing a system that clearly states driver interaction is required" isn't a terrible thing.. Yes, a tragic loss... but one that should help advance the systems and HOPEFULLY mankind. 

    Edited by ccap41
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    Now the thing is....how many people driving cars that don't have any kind of autonomous driving or safety aids barrel (like collision alert or auto-braking) through an intersection without a stop light into the side of a tractor-trailer...

     

    to get a hair cut that such that the hair will never grow back? Probably tens, hundreds, heck maybe thousands of people every year in the U.S. alone.

     

    YUP. I think this crash was inevitable. I think drivers should heed what automakers say in the fine print - these features are driver aids, not drivers themselves...not now. Maybe not in a good while. 

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    Well, Suave...

     

    Like I said...easily distracted drivers should not be able to be legally driving....Lyft and Uber and Taxi service and public transportation is as autonomous driving as it gets...

     

    And...I agree with you...this kind of accident was inevitable and many more to come.

     

    As for the fine print....some of us read it, some of us dont, but all of us NEVER listen to the message anyway...

    Fine print is only good for the lawyers of those that produce the fine print to absolve any fault...

     

    Its best that this 'helpful' technology go away...

    Its time to re-evaluate how we teach people how to drive...

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    Well, recently I had to draft up a liability waiver so...and there's a ton of things legal entities hide in the print or display aggressively....

     

    Basically any attempt to pursue litigation in the case of negligence is waived. I even mentioned 'negligent rescue operations' from law enforcement.

     

    YA. Legalese. FUN! 

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    Well as the Ford engineer told me once. We engineer to not make cars fool proof but we make them idiot proof. 

     

    But even then never underestimate the abilities of an Idiot. 

     

    We have a long way to go here as there are just so many variables that sensors and even the best electronics can not keep up with. 

    The fact is even in cases of some of the greatest minds and advancements simple things can fail and not be accounted for with devastating effects. For example. The Space Shuttle has some of the greatest engineers in the world working on it. To conserve the air speed they decided to make the landing gear only come out at a specific air speed before it would land. Sounds like a great ideas and how could this go wrong. Well they forgot to account for a tail wind bringing the Shuttle in faster than expected and at a lower altitude then it should have been. The shuttle came with in 3 seconds of belly landing. This was kept quiet for a long time and they changed the gear to being put down by the crew. 

     

    The fact is the human is the weak link where things can go wrong. But the Human is also the one link that can take control and make the right things happen when things do go wrong. In place of working to make these electronic systems better should we not be working more to get the humans to be better too.

     

    It is being reported this guy had a video of Harry Potter playing in the car.

    I feel we should remain keeping people engaged in driving as when we take them out and things go south they will be doing other things and not ready to take control. Most people are not disciplined enough to rely on these systems. This is why many people do not and should not fly.  

     

    I think we are better left with driver assist systems to prevent mistakes but still keep the driver in the loop to the point they have to pay attention. If not we will have many more of these deals. 

    Hell I have a braking system assist now that like to read cars on side roads on a curve and applies the brakes even if the car is not in my path and stopped on the side road. My wife asked me if I could shut that off the first day we owned the car. It is a pain in the Ass. 

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    He was a typical Tesla geek though.  Tesla is the greatest thing since sliced bread.  Since adult diapers.  Since Jesus himself.  Tesla is saving the human race from itself.  There is your future, right?  :roflmao:

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    Well, why would it matter which car it is?

     

    All of the American brands are working on autonomous driving. Mercedes has similar tech in the E-Class.... Everyone, everyone is doing this stuff. And there's been times electronics have malfunction...and it WAS the car itself, not the driver. Such as say Toyota's ETCU's for so long.

     

    And I think we're all glad your finally admitted just how important Tesla is to the world.  :neenerneener:

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    Well, why would it matter which car it is?

     

    All of the American brands are working on autonomous driving. Mercedes has similar tech in the E-Class.... Everyone, everyone is doing this stuff. And there's been times electronics have malfunction...and it WAS the car itself, not the driver. Such as say Toyota's ETCU's for so long.

     

    And I think we're all glad your finally admitted just how important Tesla is to the world.  :neenerneener:

     

    Note the others are not putting out Beta units and letting the people do the development work. 

     

    Tesla is no more important than any other new energy break through. 

    The problem is people are putting all their chips on Tesla and if they go south in failure they could damage the entire EV moment. As of now they have helped but they are far from being out of the woods yet. The simple matter of making money is something that at some point the investors will demand. Oh and what I mean is a profit on products not carbon credits or income from government funding. 

    I am not a Musk fan but I do not want to see Tesla fail as it will hurt all the EV makers in image with the public. 

     

    This autonomous feature is just not ready for prime time. I think it is a mistake for makers to remove so much of the driver they become even more distracted while they still need to remain engaged as to what is going on if they are holding the wheel or not. 

     

    God knows my braking system in my car gets enough false signals as it is. I had to shut it off as it was a total pain in the Ass. It really hates cars on side road joining the main road on a curve. It see's the car and then reacts to it though it is not even in my path of travel. I guess it is better it to work than not work like the Tesla but tell that to the guy behind me that got brakes checked. 

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    In Tesla's case, EXTREMELY imperfect.

    More like idiot driver not following simply instructions that are clearly laid out on the screen in a Tesla. For example, keep your hands on the wheel and stop watching movies while in the drivers seat (which what he was doing btw). While the death sucks, it is a reminder to read the damn manual and always pay attention to the road. No exceptions. 

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    Well, why would it matter which car it is?

     

    All of the American brands are working on autonomous driving. Mercedes has similar tech in the E-Class.... Everyone, everyone is doing this stuff. And there's been times electronics have malfunction...and it WAS the car itself, not the driver. Such as say Toyota's ETCU's for so long.

     

    And I think we're all glad your finally admitted just how important Tesla is to the world.  :neenerneener:

     

    Note the others are not putting out Beta units and letting the people do the development work. 

     

    Tesla is no more important than any other new energy break through. 

    The problem is people are putting all their chips on Tesla and if they go south in failure they could damage the entire EV moment. As of now they have helped but they are far from being out of the woods yet. The simple matter of making money is something that at some point the investors will demand. Oh and what I mean is a profit on products not carbon credits or income from government funding. 

    I am not a Musk fan but I do not want to see Tesla fail as it will hurt all the EV makers in image with the public. 

     

    This autonomous feature is just not ready for prime time. I think it is a mistake for makers to remove so much of the driver they become even more distracted while they still need to remain engaged as to what is going on if they are holding the wheel or not. 

     

    God knows my braking system in my car gets enough false signals as it is. I had to shut it off as it was a total pain in the Ass. It really hates cars on side road joining the main road on a curve. It see's the car and then reacts to it though it is not even in my path of travel. I guess it is better it to work than not work like the Tesla but tell that to the guy behind me that got brakes checked. 

     

    Really? So you think when the others get that tech out there (and it's coming real soon btw), that their tech will have NO issues and NO problems the will lead to that very same problem? Do you not think that it will not also be considered "beta"?

     

    If so, then I have a bridge to sell you.

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    In fairness, 124 people died because GM can't build an ignition switch properly. 

     

    Good thing it's Tesla that is on the forefront of automated driving. If it were GM, we'd all be dead. 

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    Hah. I sneer at some so called domestic brand lovers yet they whine about poor little Tesla. Oh heavens what must we do. 

     

    And aren't all auto companies in a RUSH, NO MAD FRENZY...NO on AN AUTOMOTIVE JIHAD to CONVERT their employees to their brand...especially for highly advanced auto tech.

     

    Tesla is MORE American than GM or Ford. Every car they make, is built in this country. And they're going for full vertical integration. Batteries for the WORLD. Made in Nevada.  Already at 75% domestic content, and once the gigafactory is fully online are made here, it'll be even higher.

     

    HyperV6 do not ever again question the strength of any FULLY AMERICAN AUTO. 

     

    And I don't even like their cars to know that is true. I don't like that right now they only make two models. I think they made a grave mistake with the delay of the X.

     

    BUT $h! THEY DON'T TURN A PROFIT JUST YET, BUT THEY DON'T MAKE THE EXCUSE OF SHIPPING JOBS OVERSEAS TO CLAIM THAT WILL MAKE THEM COMPETITIVE.

     

    They WILL not sell a Chinese Tesla in America, but they will build Teslas in China for china. If they do, well, they can't be any worse than GM or Ford can THEY? 

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    In fairness, 124 people died because GM can't build an ignition switch properly. 

     

    Goo thing it's Tesla that is on the forefront of automated driving. If it were GM, we'd all be dead. 

     

    I like the way you're thinking...

     

    Imagine if GM cheapens out on a sensor for a couple of cents on their version of the autonomous driving Bolt like they did with the Cobalt/Pontiac G5/HHR debacle?

     

    At least in Tesla's case, one could still chalk it up to human error as the idiot was watching a movie or playing video games  rather than being attentive like the fine print says that one should do when engaging in autonomous driving mode...

     

    Listen, this has nothing to do with Tesla...it has everything to do with EVERY STUPID CAR MAKER AND SILICON VALLEY A-HOLES that think that they could save us from ourselves...

     

    VOLVO

    Mercedes-Benz

    Google

    Tesla

    General Motors

     

    and many more...

     

     

    Tesla happens to have the first death because Tesla is the first to put to market this shyte....

    which is not true because Volvo and I think Mercedes Lories have this shyte on their 18 wheelers....difference is truckers are attentive because they got cameras in their rigs filming their every move!!!

     

    When Volvo and Mercedes-Benz and GM and Google that has partnered up with FCA (I thing they have partnered up with FCA to program this shyte as they dont engineer and produce vehicles) will have their share of technology malfunction in their passenger vehicles and knock on wood.....not too many idiot people will die from this shyte!!!

    Darwinism or not...it is still a bloody shame for such carnage.

    Edited by oldshurst442
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    Yup, we already have a former GM employee go on record saying that the most times GM makes a mistake is that they're just CHEAP.

     

    When Tesla has a fault, it's because they're rookies.

     

    Well how about this mofo's....

     

    WHEN IT COMES TO AUTONOMOUS TECH, EVERY CAR COMPANY IS A ROOKIE.

     

    AND GM HAS A HISTORY OF CHEAPENING OUT.

     

    TESLA DOES NOT CHEAP OUT. WHEN THEY MAKE A MISTAKE, THEY USUALLY HAVE A VERY LENIENT WARRANTY.

     

    THAT MIGHT CHANGE WITH MODEL 3, BUT THEN THEY WOULD BE NO WORSE THAN GM OR FORD OR CHRYSLER. YEA. AMERICAN AUTOS. ALL ONE THE SAME.

     

    HAPPY AMERICA DAY WEEKEND!!! 

     

    Bah....Americans...

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    Hah. I sneer at some so called domestic brand lovers yet they whine about poor little Tesla. Oh heavens what must we do. 

     

    And aren't all auto companies in a RUSH, NO MAD FRENZY...NO on AN AUTOMOTIVE JIHAD to CONVERT their employees to their brand...especially for highly advanced auto tech.

     

    Tesla is MORE American than GM or Ford. Every car they make, is built in this country. And they're going for full vertical integration. Batteries for the WORLD. Made in Nevada.  Already at 75% domestic content, and once the gigafactory is fully online are made here, it'll be even higher.

     

    HyperV6 do not ever again question the strength of any FULLY AMERICAN AUTO. 

     

    And I don't even like their cars to know that is true. I don't like that right now they only make two models. I think they made a grave mistake with the delay of the X.

     

    BUT $h! THEY DON'T TURN A PROFIT JUST YET, BUT THEY DON'T MAKE THE EXCUSE OF SHIPPING JOBS OVERSEAS TO CLAIM THAT WILL MAKE THEM COMPETITIVE.

     

    They WILL not sell a Chinese Tesla in America, but they will build Teslas in China for china. If they do, well, they can't be any worse than GM or Ford can THEY? 

    Stop distracting by waving the flag here. This is only about technology that is far from ready from prime time. 

    First the systems are not infallible and can only read what is programmed and there are many more variables involved here. 

    Second the Humans are not responsible enough to be trusted with it as they are easily distracted just as your post proves. 

    God how do you even stay on the road.  I expect you to spew out Squirrel mid sentence with the lack of focus here bud.

     

    You want to get into the political end of this then start a thread on it. Then we can discuss American and global economic survival in real terms now want to be terms.  I as much as anyone would love everything made here and I would like to flap my arms and fly to but those things are out of my control and conditions prevent it from happening at this time.  

     

    Note if the 3 is built in China odds are great it will be imported here at some point if Elon plans to sell as many cars as he claims. The Fremont plant has it's limitations. But his first issues is to sell more cars first. 

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    Only completely stupid and naive people believe that this crash happened because the car didn't do it's job.

     

     

    I don't like this technology, yet petty GM and Ford ARE YEARS behind Tesla, Mercedes and Volvo.

     

    That is what it is.

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      This is due to a state law signed in 2014 which states,  “a vehicle manufacturer shall not … sell any new motor vehicle directly to a retail customer other than through franchised dealers.”
      Tesla has been fighting tooth and nail to sell their vehicles in Michigan for a few years now by lobbying and applying for a license.  As Automotive News notes, Michigan is the most populated state that doesn't have a Tesla gallery or store. 
      "At the urging of local car dealers and GM, Michigan law was changed two years ago to prevent Michigan consumers from buying cars from a Tesla store within the state. As part of the process of challenging the legality of that law, Tesla applied for a license in Michigan. Tesla will continue to take steps to defend the rights of Michigan consumers," Tesla said in a statement to Automotive News.
      Now people outside of Tesla have been trying to change the law. As we reported back in February, a 22-year launched a petition to repeal this law. Also, Rep. Aaron Miller, R-Sturgis introduced a bill into the state's legislature to allow companies like Tesla to do direct sales. But as The Detroit News reports, the bill has sat stagnant.
      “The discussion’s not over but for this session I think we’ve reached that point of no progress. I think the clock is going to run out on us,” said Miller.
      Now it should be stated that anyone from Michigan who wants to order a Tesla can do so from the company's website. You'll have to pickup your vehicle outside of the state however, the closest ones being in Ohio.
      Where does Tesla go next? That is anyone's guess at the moment. But as Tesla's general counsel Todd Maron said back in May, the company would either go to court or the legislation to make the change. Our hunch is Tesla will be going for the former.
      Source: Automotive News (Subscription Required), The Detroit News

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