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evok

2007 China SLS

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It certainly doesn't have that weird "my-rear-doors-are-way-too-long" look that LWB XJs had!

BTW: this isn't the extensively revised car that CadillacCTS saw at the GM dealer event, right?

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This is the spied STS that they were mentioning earlier, the one with the Shanghai GM badge.

Wheelbase is longer. 3057mm = 120.35 inches. US Version is 116.4 inches.

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wow, from that angle it actually looks pretty decent. I think 120 inches is way too long for the STS in its current market positioning for a replacement of the current car, but somewhere in the middle of 116 and 120 ought to differentiate the cars plenty enough.

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BTW: this isn't the extensively revised car that CadillacCTS saw at the GM dealer event, right?

214194[/snapback]

The car they saw WAS NOT the 08 MCE.

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wow, from that angle it actually looks pretty decent. I think 120 inches is way too long for the STS in its current market positioning for a replacement of the current car, but somewhere in the middle of 116 and 120 ought to differentiate the cars plenty enough.

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?? Why not? The Chrysler 300 has a 120 inch wheelbase...the STS/SLS should certainly have as long or a longer wheelbase...

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The car they saw WAS NOT the 08 MCE.

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Aha, so would that clay model be the next-gen STS?

And would that mean the US/Europe get the '08 MCE enhancements (new interior/new grille) with the LWB model to be a Chinese market exclusive?

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Aha, so would that clay model be the next-gen STS?

And would that mean the US/Europe get the '08 MCE enhancements (new interior/new grille) with the LWB model to be a Chinese market exclusive?

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I do not know about the lwb being sold in the US or Europe but the interior . . . you bet ya.

Remember GM is acting global.

Edited by evok

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I do not know about the lwb being sold in the US or Europe but the interior . . . you bet ya.

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Being larger, the lwb wouldn't suffer from the "too-close-to-the-CTS" issue. Re the interior, I like it: that dashboard leather is very nice!

Remember GM is acting global.

214387[/snapback]

Yep, they finally got that figured out.

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I say the STS should ride on the 120" wheelbase, and a possible (though from what I gather, not likely so far) STC (or 6-Series competitor) should ride on the 116" wheelbase. In many of the current car's reviews, lack of rearseat legroom has been a common complaint. Judging by the pics, four extra inches will seem to remedy that.

Maybe I'm just talking out of my ass. I don't know.

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Why did someone start a second thread for a pre-exisiting topic?

214528[/snapback]

Read the posting times.

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Being larger, the lwb wouldn't suffer from the "too-close-to-the-CTS" issue.

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I agree 100% If GM is able to build it in the US, hold the price than let the phase out of the DTS begin.

The big if is if GM can build it in Lansing. I am not sure to what extent or level China is going to build the vehicle. i.e. I am unsure if the stampings will be US or China built, and to what level China wil build knock down kits.

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But what about width?  The DTS would still be a larger car than a LWB STS.

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What does that have to do with anything?

STS rear hip room 55.6 in

DTS rear hip room 55.7 in.

The only significant difference between the China SLS compared to the DTS and S-Class type of vehicle is truck space.

Edited by evok

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The trunk space is a big issue. But yes the DTS could use better interior packaging, but some people (my father included) like the wider cars. I don't think a LWB STS could completely supplant a DTS on, say, Zeta. A Cadillac based on the new Statesman, however, would fit the bill perfectly. JMO

Looking at all the stats, here is one you didn't mention and would better explain why the STS felt smaller inside than the DTS width-wise:

DTS

Hip Room

57.3 in. Front

55.7 in. Rear

Shoulder Room

60.0 in. Front

59.2 in. Rear

STS

Hip Room

54.6 in. Front

55.6 in. Rear

Shoulder Room

58.6 in. Front

57.4 in. Rear

Sorry, but those extra inches all add up. I could see the LWB STS coming over here to replace the current one as long as a bigger, S-Class (read: more luxury) fighter DTS on Zeta is in the lineup too. And yes, I realize this conjectured DTS would be double the price of the current DTS, but that's what RWD luxury vehicles of that size go for everywhere else, and the buyers put off by that price can go and get a Zeta Lucerne (which will now be able to offer more features without stepping on Cadillac's toes)

Edited by Croc

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good points Croc

must be the ?door panels/arm rests? in DTS keep hip room narrow but shoulder room is larger ?

there is more or equally important issues with width too.

Track: longer wheelbase w/same track is going to handle worse, wont fly in the US market when magazines do their BMW, Mercedes comparisions.

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The trunk space is a big issue.  But yes the DTS could use better interior packaging, but some people (my father included) like the wider cars.  I don't think a LWB STS could completely supplant a DTS on, say, Zeta.  A Cadillac based on the new Statesman, however, would fit the bill perfectly.  JMO

Looking at all the stats, here is one you didn't mention and would better explain why the STS felt smaller inside than the DTS width-wise:

DTS

Hip Room

57.3 in. Front

55.7 in. Rear

Shoulder Room

60.0 in. Front

59.2 in. Rear

STS

Hip Room

54.6 in. Front

55.6 in. Rear

Shoulder Room

58.6 in. Front

57.4 in. Rear

Sorry, but those extra inches all add up.  I could see the LWB STS coming over here to replace the current one as long as a bigger, S-Class (read: more luxury) fighter DTS on Zeta is in the lineup too.  And yes, I realize this conjectured DTS would be double the price of the current DTS, but that's what RWD luxury vehicles of that size go for everywhere else, and the buyers put off by that price can go and get a Zeta Lucerne (which will now be able to offer more features without stepping on Cadillac's toes)

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If you consider the STS as a competitor to the LS430 it stacks up quite well in size, price and volume (although the STS has the benefit of a cheaper V6). Compared to the more expensive European entries and the new LS460, it is too narrow and consequently cramped. Not too much of a problem since it is priced closer to the 5-Series, M-Series and A6 to which it matches more closely in terms of size, inside and out. IMHO Toyota f—d up by not making the new GS large enough to attract LS430 buyers priced out of a larger and more expensive LS460. Those more expensive grosser limousines priced above the mittelklasse (unlike the LS430) are primarily lwb models not only wider, but another 100 mm longer than the SLS. The Statesman and Lucerne are at the bottom end of this class size wise, larger than only the LS 460L, but in most measures at least match typical interior room for the class (unlike the LS 460 L which lacks the required shoulder and hip room front and rear to be truly competitive).

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Sorry, but those extra inches all add up. 

I am sorry - but you do not understand the measurements, how they are taken and what they mean with respect to occupant seating.

I refer you to Griffons post.

Think about it before your reply. If a vehicle has an extra inch of should room, how much usable shoulder room is that for an outboard occupant? Hip room, that is another story all together.

Edited by evok

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An STS of this size clearly opens up room above for this long-drooled-over ultralux Cadillac. There has always been a sizing issue with Cadillac's sedans, whether it be CTS vs. STS or Seville vs. DeVille. This solves it.

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I am sorry - but you do not understand the measurements, how they are taken and what they mean with respect to occupant seating.

I refer you to Griffons post.

Think about it  before your reply.  If a vehicle has an extra inch of should room, how much usable shoulder room is that for an outboard occupant?  Hip room, that is another story all together.

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Yea and front hip room is almost 3" less in the STS.

Don't get snippy, buddy. And don't get too hung up on the numbers, either. My point is that there should be another vehicle above the STS with a bigger trunk, slightly wider dimensions and more luxury. This vehicle I would call DTS, and I'd size it (overall) extremely similarly to Statesman, and because of this, put it on Zeta since that engineering is already in place.

Refer to FlyBrian's post, and think about it before you reply. And can the attitude because I have no use for it.

And as for your question about the value of shoulder room, it does more for the perception of spaciousness and comfort than it does for the actual comfort of the occupant. I don't think I need to explain the value of perceptions to you.

Edited by Croc

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As it stands most European manufacturers don't specify hip room at all, and Mercedes-Benz USA's numbers are suspect. It's quite common instead to specify shoulder and elbow room, although it's not always clear which is which.

Edited by thegriffon

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