FUTURE_OF_GM

As gas prices recede, so do fuel efficiency concerns

43 posts in this topic

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=130591

"in July, consumers' consideration of presumably out-of-favor segments including large crossovers, minivans and sports cars began a significant recovery, while consideration of small cars and hybrids actually began declining from levels in June."

Edited by FUTURE_OF_GM
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Gotta love the mindset of the general public :rolleyes:

Live for today..

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eh.. price drops and just "getting used to it"...?

Well, the last few summers have seen a price spike then a drop... but each time, it's dropped to a level higher than where the previous drop stopped...definitely more pronounced this year.

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Well, as has been stated many times, hybrids still have a tough time making their economics worth while (how long do you have to drive a Prius before you've recouped the hybridization cost?) So people weren't running toward fuel efficiency because gas was $4/gallon, but rather because, in their minds, there was a real potential for $5, $6, $7....$10/gallon gas. So, when gas prices fell a bit, it's an initial sign that the price of gas is starting to level off and, in turn, that lessens fears about continued price increases. Which is why, in the consumer's mind, it's OK to start considering SUVs, sports cars and the like again.

So, my point is that this isn't necessarily a short-sighted reaction, but rather this reaction likely has a lot of lont-term thinking behind it.

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Also, many of the vehicles that became passé this summer can be had for a song now...

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Well, as has been stated many times, hybrids still have a tough time making their economics worth while (how long do you have to drive a Prius before you've recouped the hybridization cost?) So people weren't running toward fuel efficiency because gas was $4/gallon, but rather because, in their minds, there was a real potential for $5, $6, $7....$10/gallon gas. So, when gas prices fell a bit, it's an initial sign that the price of gas is starting to level off and, in turn, that lessens fears about continued price increases. Which is why, in the consumer's mind, it's OK to start considering SUVs, sports cars and the like again.

So, my point is that this isn't necessarily a short-sighted reaction, but rather this reaction likely has a lot of lont-term thinking behind it.

The thing is, we really don't know if the price is going to stabilize at $3.75 or wherever... given worldwide demand that is growing, instability in oil source regions, there is no reason to think it won't go up again in the US, to $5 or more within the next few years..so it would be pretty short-sighted to go buy a Hummer now..

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Well, as has been stated many times, hybrids still have a tough time making their economics worth while (how long do you have to drive a Prius before you've recouped the hybridization cost?) So people weren't running toward fuel efficiency because gas was $4/gallon, but rather because, in their minds, there was a real potential for $5, $6, $7....$10/gallon gas. So, when gas prices fell a bit, it's an initial sign that the price of gas is starting to level off and, in turn, that lessens fears about continued price increases. Which is why, in the consumer's mind, it's OK to start considering SUVs, sports cars and the like again.

So, my point is that this isn't necessarily a short-sighted reaction, but rather this reaction likely has a lot of lont-term thinking behind it.

I agree...

It's all about psychology.

I read something a while back that said as long as gas prices gradually increase, people will adjust and continue buying what they want. It's the spikes that kill us and scare everyone into a panic.

I'll admit, this summer was pretty scary to me. I don't like waking up to a 10 cent increase in price overnight. But then again, it pisses me off because speculation is what's driving the price, not supply. So some fat cat on "The Street" is getting a bit more rich off of my back, basically.

We should regulate the price of oil (on the market) and gradually raise prices to where they naturally should be. That way, the economy doesn't crash. I think Russia or Germany did that very thing, or something similar, this summer.

Edited by FUTURE_OF_GM
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The thing is, we really don't know if the price is going to stabilize at $3.75 or wherever... given worldwide demand that is growing, instability in oil source regions, there is no reason to think it won't go up again in the US, to $5 or more within the next few years..so it would be pretty short-sighted to go buy a Hummer now..

But there are so many variables...

americans are already driving smaller and less. New technologies such as hybrids and plug ins and alternative fuels will ease demand (albeit not much, but still) China just added a displacement tax to curb purchases (which I think is :bs: but whatever) The dollar will get stronger, we'll start drilling off shore, hopefully the next president will CHANGE the way the oil industry swims in profit.

I know all of that is speculative, but it's no different than some analyst flying off at the mouth and predicting doom.

Edited by FUTURE_OF_GM
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But there are so many variables...

americans are already driving smaller and less. New technologies such as hybrids and plug ins will ease demand (albeit not much, but still) China just added a displacement tax to curb purchases (which I think is :bs: but whatever) The dollar will get stronger, we'll start drilling off shore, hopefully the next president will CHANGE the way the oil industry swims in profit.

I know all of that is speculative, but it's no different than some analyst flying off at the mouth and predicting doom.

Offshore drilling won't do any good, though... that's something that will take 5-10 years to see any ROI..

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Offshore drilling won't do any good, though... that's something that will take 5-10 years to see any ROI..

I know, but if demand keeps climbing like some predict it'll eventually have an effect.

On a related note; what about oil shale? is it still cost prohibitive? And what about horizontal drilling in the Dakotas? Seems I heard that it could be justifies now that the price is over $100/barrel

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I know, but if demand keeps climbing like some predict it'll eventually have an effect.

On a related note; what about oil shale? is it still cost prohibitive? And what about horizontal drilling in the Dakotas? Seems I heard that it could be justifies now that the price is over $100/barrel

Could be..I had heard oil shale was cost prohibitive at previous $/barrel levels...ultimately, though, I think we have to find a way to move away from oil dependence...hybrids, electric cars, fuel cells, nuclear, plutonium, water, air, dirt, something...

Edited by moltar
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Could be..I had heard oil shale was cost prohibitive at previous $/barrel levels...ultimately, though, I think we have to find a way to move away from oil dependence...hybrids, electric cars, fuel cells, something...

I agree and disagree.

I always want to drive an ICE car. But I'd love for the market to move to many other types of propulsion. Less ICE cars equals cheaper fuel and less pollution. Not to mention, I'd LOVE to see GM hit one out of the park with the Volt to regain respect and share.

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The less is to have the entire lineup from small cars to big trucks be very good products, and be able to adjust production based on demand / be flexible. Then it wouldn't be as much of a problem when gas prices go up and down and demand fluctuates.

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GM might regret thinking that the market "shifted fundamentally" after data from March through June.

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we'll start drilling off shore, hopefully the next president will CHANGE the way the oil industry swims in profit.

careful, you sound like socialism/regulation is a good thing. regulation comes from too much immoral/unlawful actions. displacement taxes are a way of saying ICE's are immoral/unlawful, which you are against.

so what do you really want? freedom of choice or propped up industries with regulations/subsidies?

edit: freedom of choice, as in fair and open competition

Edited by loki
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We're still getting hosed, however. Oil peaked at $143 a barrel a month ago. We were paying $1.36 a litre. Now, oil is around $114, which is a 25% drop by my accounts, yet we are paying $1.29 a litre - only a 5% drop. :censored:

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careful, you sound like socialism/regulation is a good thing. regulation comes from too much immoral/unlawful actions. displacement taxes are a way of saying ICE's are immoral/unlawful, which you are against.

so what do you really want? freedom of choice or propped up industries with regulations/subsidies?

edit: freedom of choice, as in fair and open competition

:neenerneener:

The oil market was deregulated so that anyone around the world can buy oil futures. I want that deregulation reversed.

I'm tired of reading "Hurricane criples refinery" and paying more for gas, then reading "Oil is at a 15 year surplus" only to have to pay EVEN more for gas.

To me, it's the same thing that is crippling this country (through mortgages) It's a way for the upper 10% to make more money on the lower (less educated) 90%.

We're still getting hosed, however. Oil peaked at $143 a barrel a month ago. We were paying $1.36 a litre. Now, oil is around $114, which is a 25% drop by my accounts, yet we are paying $1.29 a litre - only a 5% drop. :censored:

:cheering:

Edited by FUTURE_OF_GM
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the choice i had the other day from the dealer....pay 18 grand for the new focus with MANUAL tranny or for 3 thou more the fuel sucking Edge with the automatic.

you still gotta pick the Edge and hedge your bets on gas not going too much higher.

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:neenerneener:

The oil market was deregulated so that anyone around the world can buy oil futures. I want that deregulation reversed.

I'm tired of reading "Hurricane criples refinery" and paying more for gas, then reading "Oil is at a 15 year surplus" only to have to pay EVEN more for gas.

To me, it's the same thing that is crippling this country (through mortgages) It's a way for the upper 10% to make more money on the lower (less educated) 90%.

:cheering:

the mortgage home value issue needs fixing first. the reason there was a bubble was because people's wages went in the tank in terms of real income. blame BUSH, war, outsourcing and greedy execs. and energy prices. had the businesses not looked to outsource america and strip their pay to slave wages, people still could have foot the bill on their homes. if they still could pay, home values would not drop, and thus credit flow and all of that would remain as would new housing development.

nothing gets fixed until the value of folks' properties gets back to what it was an the banks stop tightening up like a turtle hiding its head.

it's in everyone's interest in this country for housing values to always remain stable and rising slightly.

Edited by regfootball
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:neenerneener:

The oil market was deregulated so that anyone around the world can buy oil futures. I want that deregulation reversed.

I'm tired of reading "Hurricane criples refinery" and paying more for gas, then reading "Oil is at a 15 year surplus" only to have to pay EVEN more for gas.

To me, it's the same thing that is crippling this country (through mortgages) It's a way for the upper 10% to make more money on the lower (less educated) 90%.

:cheering:

I'm all for free markets, but something is amiss with the oil business. If someone farts in Sudan, gas prices at the pumps shoot up the next day. If the the King of Saudi Arabia declared he loves Israelis tomorrow, it would still take a month for prices to come down.

If you don't like what Blockbuster charges, you can go to the mom & pop store and pay less or get loyalty bucks or something. Isn't it odd that all the gas stations in town charge EXACTLY the same amount, within a half penny of each other?

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We're still getting hosed, however. Oil peaked at $143 a barrel a month ago. We were paying $1.36 a litre. Now, oil is around $114, which is a 25% drop by my accounts, yet we are paying $1.29 a litre - only a 5% drop. :censored:

But our dollar also dropped about 5%.

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